HAS THE TIME COME TO SPLIT DUBLIN GAA??

listermint

Dots1982 wrote: »

Absolutely agree with what you say. Any spilt decision should be taken in the event that Dublin dominance is harming the association and interest outside Dublin.

A lot of people are looking into the past and saying that's reason enough to never change things. The past is the past. The future is a different continent.

Which it isnt.

Santa Cruz

prospect wrote: »

I couldn't agree more, but don't tackle the teams on it, tackle the format of the competition.

Dublin weren't always winning Leinster in a canter and Meath's performance this year shows that Dublin will have to be on top of their game to get through in the future. No one was shouting to split Dublin when Meath were winning Leinster. Laois Westmeath Kildare Dublin Meath have won Leinster in recent memory and on their day Kildare Meath and Dublin can be fairly even.
The two provinces with the easiest run to the quarter finals are Munster and Connacht. Mayo didn't have to hit top gear until they met Donegal.
Do you think Dublin or Tyrone/Donegal/Armagh would get through their province on half throttle.? And then face the loser of Cork/Kerry in a quarter final?.
Mayo will have to learn to pace their game, get through Connacht as handy as they can and then play proper football and not engage in some of the under 12 antics they did last Sunday.

Santa Cruz

anbrutog wrote: »

It was never up for discussion with Kilkenny or Kerry, and it shouldn't be up for discussion with us either.

Feel free to discuss how we can make the Championship format better by all means, but any talk of splitting Dublin in two is ridiculous and it's based purely on non-Dubs not liking us winning anything, evidenced by the deafening silence when Kilkenny and Kerry were winning all around them.

Why not split Kilkenny into North and South? It's not that it would be damaging their footballer chances.

anbrutog

Citroen2cv wrote: »

Dont know about a split, but definitely dublin should not get to play all their league and leinster championship games in croker.
I remember them only travelling once this year, to donegal in the league and they won.

It was actually twice, our first match was in Killarney.
We didn't win in Donegal, we drew with a last minute point from Paul Mannion.

Kildare surrendered home advantage in their league match against us which was their decision, no one elses.

So we had no more home league matches than anyone else.
We were on the road 4 times last year as well.

As a Dublin fan, I would LOVE to go down the country for a Leinster championship match.

And I don't know a single Dubs fan who wouldn't either.

Dots1982

listermint wrote: »

Which it isnt.

Yet

AGC

Citroen2cv wrote: »

Dont know about a split, but definitely dublin should not get to play all their league and leinster championship games in croker.
I remember them only travelling once this year, to donegal in the league and they won.

Donegal and Kerry. the kildare game was a 'home' game for Kildare at their decision. Not Dublin's

Oasis_Dublin

Dots1982 wrote: »

Yet

I presume that in ten years time the All-Ireland football championship will just be contested between counties from the GDA and Cork.

Dublin, Meath, Kildare, Wicklow and Cork will be attempting to get into the semi-finals each year - no other teams will be in any way competitive.

That's scientific fact. There's no real evidence for it; but it is scientific fact.

BadCharlie

I think all County teams should have the same Budget. No one county should have the spending power of 4 or 5 times of another county. It’s like Man UTD, Real Madrid, Man City and the list goes on.... then you have all the rest who can’t spend the likes of the teams I listed.

County teams don't buy players. But they do pay for Trainers/Physio/Training Grounds/Science/Diet ect... which makes the playing field very uneven. More money = Better training.

Dots1982

Oasis_Dublin wrote: »

I presume that in ten years time the All-Ireland football championship will just be contested between counties from the GDA and Cork.

Dublin, Meath, Kildare, Wicklow and Cork will be attempting to get into the semi-finals each year - no other teams will be in any way competitive.

That's scientific fact. There's no real evidence for it; but it is scientific fact.

Your sarcasm is not funny, that's also a fact.

Oasis_Dublin

Dots1982 wrote: »

Your sarcasm is not funny, that's also a fact.

You seem a bit confused about the difference between facts and opinions.

rpurfield

ill be honest ive not read every post here but id be more interested in seeing some sort of system whereby a lad thats of a decent standard but cant get in the dublin team can go play for a division 4 team and help bring up the standard in that county too.

the other side of dublin doing so well is more and more kids in the commuter belt are getting into gaelic and playing at their club where they live in meath kildare or whatever. i know for a fact there are born and bred dubs here in stamullen whose kids are going for trials with meath underage squads and id say its the same in kildare louth westmeath etc. it might take a few years but im expecting to see a rising tide lifting all boats situation going on.

Dots1982

Oasis_Dublin wrote: »

You seem a bit confused about the difference between facts and opinions.

If you can find someone who finds you funny I'll admit that.

Oasis_Dublin

Dots1982 wrote: »

If you can find someone who finds you funny I'll admit that.

On a point of order, are we discussing Dublin or myself?

listermint

Dots1982 wrote: »

Yet

Okay lets start making plans up for something that isnt real so...


I have another shovel here for rent if you need it. Should make the job a bid easier. the end of yours looks to be getting blunt.

Dots1982

Oasis_Dublin wrote: »

You seem a bit confused about the difference between facts and opinions.

On a point of order, are we discussing Dublin or myself?

Dots1982

listermint wrote: »

Okay lets start making plans up for something that isnt real so...


I have another shovel here for rent if you need it. Should make the job a bid easier. the end of yours looks to be getting blunt.

Not making plans just discussing...do you believe in living in the past or looking at the future?

listermint

Dots1982 wrote: »

Not making plans just discussing...do you believe in living in the past or looking at the future?

Your little adages arent making your case anymore successful...

looking to the future. lol.


Facts are what ever your gripe is, hasnt come to pass. And you dont like discussion you are just using the thread to pedal nonsense about dublins supposed advantage over everyone else.

PRAF

Traditionally Dublin have been no more dominant in Leinster (41% win rate) than Kerry have been in Munster (60% win rate) or than Galway & Mayo have been in Connaught (39% win rate each). The Ulster championship was been won by Cavan more than double the amount of times than anyone else and they win it 33% of the time on average.

Rather than use this as an opportunity to weaken Dublin, it would be better if the GAA looked to combine certain counties. I suspect this might be a hard sell but IMO it would be great to have a much more level playing field. As it currently stands, too many counties have zero chance of winning an All Ireland.

IMO it is a travesty that guys like Matty Forde from Wexford, Declan Browne from Tipp, and Dessie Dolan from Westmeath (just to name a few) never had a realistic chance to compete for an All Ireland medal. All they can hope for is a decent run in the provincial championship and maybe a call up to a combined rules game against the Aussies. Scant reward for the effort they put in.

Dots1982

PRAF wrote: »

Rather than use this as an opportunity to weaken Dublin, it would be better if the GAA looked to combine certain counties. I suspect this might be a hard sell but IMO it would be great to have a much more level playing field. As it currently stands, too many counties have zero chance of winning an All Ireland.

Nah.. your proposal means less people get to play county football apart from the impracticalies of where would they train.

Oasis_Dublin

Dots1982 wrote: »

On a point of order, are we discussing Dublin or myself?

Just wow.

Dots1982

Oasis_Dublin wrote: »

Just wow.

I know, pretty good at this aren't I?

Oasis_Dublin

Dots1982 wrote: »

I know, pretty good at this aren't I?

Trolling? Yes, quite good.

Rightwing

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Yeah, but again, Dublin didn't get that money by just shouting "give us the money"! They had a detailed strategy in place, and a network of people willing to fundraise to match the funding they received. It isn't just about the managers. They should be lobbying their county boards to put in place a comprehensive long-term strategy both for club and player development, and also for fundraising, as well as a competent strategy for approaching Croke Park to draw down funding. Not just saying "give us money" as though Croke Park should feel obliged to do so just because they want it.

I'd say there's more to it than that. The GAA should come clean, and tell counties if they put a decent template in place, will they get the proper funding.

Dots1982

Oasis_Dublin wrote: »

Trolling? Yes, quite good.

You're impervious to actual debate so I had little option. Sorry.

Oasis_Dublin

Dots1982 wrote: »

You're impervious to actual debate so I had little option. Sorry.

I explained to you that you were wrong. You ignored my reply and got personal. It's a real shame that you couldn't have a proper debate.

Dots1982

Oasis_Dublin wrote: »

I explained to you that you were wrong. You ignored my reply and got personal. It's a real shame that you couldn't have a proper debate.

Its not a shame I think. I don't think I'm missing much.

Realt Dearg Sec

Rightwing wrote: »

I'd say there's more to it than that.

Another Rightwing conspiracy! (See what I did there?)

Oasis_Dublin

Dots1982 wrote: »

Its not a shame I think. I don't think I'm missing much.

Maybe Sam Maguire in whatever county you're from. WHAT?!

Seriously though, if you think basing your argument on the opinion that counties with smaller populations are more naturally gifted players than the likes of Bernard Brogan and Cian O'Sullivan and that they only lose to Dublin because there are 1.5 million people living in the county then goodluck to you.

Rightwing

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Another Rightwing conspiracy! (See what I did there?)

Well at this stage you are the only person who is talking sense on this thread (the rest are off on tangents and petty little snipes) so I an Unfollowing it.

Dots1982

Oasis_Dublin wrote: »

counties with smaller populations are more naturally gifted players than the likes of Bernard Brogan and Cian O'Sullivan

That's not what I think at all but you don't want me to explain surely as its better for the both of us at this stage.

If you think one team having at least double the population of every other county is no advantage then good luck to you.

prospect

Okay, so, since the final whistle on Sunday, Dublin are:

- Cynical
- Cheaters
- Supported by scum
- Too populated
- Favourably treated by the GAA financially
- Favourably treated by the GAA with home advantage

anything else?

Oh yeah, All Ireland Football Champions.

Oasis_Dublin

Dots1982 wrote: »

That's not what I think at all

Ah, the tune is changed, the goalposts are moved. Superb

More people play soccer in Dublin than any other county. FACT.

Dots1982

Oasis_Dublin wrote: »

More people play soccer in Dublin than any other county. FACT.

Of course, Dublin has more people than other county. Now you're seeing it my way.

Dots1982

Oasis_Dublin wrote: »

Ah, the tune is changed, the goalposts are moved. Superb

Tune hasn't changed at all. My point all along is Dublin have an overwhelming population advantage so of course they have more access to better players. Saying I think there are better footballers in weaker counties than Cian o'sullivan and B Brogan is news to me.

Oasis_Dublin

Dots1982 wrote: »

Of course, Dublin has more people than other county. Now you're seeing it my way.

More people live in Mayo than Leitrim. How can we even things up so that Mayo are given no advantage over Leitrim in Connacht?

The water in Wexford is much harder than the water in Dublin. That means, per head, Wexford folk buy more kettles than Dublin folk. This limits the amount of money that can be spent on club memberships/club lottos/GAA gear in local club shops in Wexford. How can we even these things up so that Dublin clubs don't have a financial advantage over Wexford clubs?

It's wetter in Donegal than it is in Waterford. How can we make sure that Donegal players get enough experience on hard pitches before they play football in the summer (ie the time of the year when the All-Ireland Championship (or Dublin procession, as you probably call it) is held?

I know all you're interested in is evening up the playing field for every county and I support your cause. What can we do about the water situation in Wexford? What can we do about the weather in Donegal? Quick, before it's too late.

Oasis_Dublin

Dots1982 wrote: »

Tune hasn't changed at all. My point all along is Dublin have an overwhelming population advantage so of course they have more access to better players. Saying I think there are better footballers in weaker counties than Cian o'sullivan and B Brogan is news to me.

"The reason for Dublin's success is largely down to their population advantage. Sorry if Dubs don't agree with me. I wouldn't expect them to.

The Kilkennys and Kerrys are successful because of tradition and natural skill. They may have a population advantage over some of the counties they defeat but its non a defining factor as is the case with Dublin."

- Dots1982, September 2013.

P_1

In most sports though generally teams from more populous areas do tend to succeed more. Some examples include:

Football: Barcelona and Madrid in Spain, Manchester and London clubs in England, Glasgow clubs in Scotland, Munich and Ruhr area clubs in Germany.

Rugby: Leinster, Toulouse

Dots1982

Oasis_Dublin wrote: »

"The reason for Dublin's success is largely down to their population advantage. Sorry if Dubs don't agree with me. I wouldn't expect them to.

The Kilkennys and Kerrys are successful because of tradition and natural skill. They may have a population advantage over some of the counties they defeat but its non a defining factor as is the case with Dublin."

- Dots1982, September 2013.

I'm lost to your point.

In one post I say I believe that overwhelming population advantage over every other county is the defining factor in Dublin being the best.

In another I say Kilkenny and Kerry may have a larger population than certain counties but since they are roughly in line with every other county apart from Dublin I don't belive it to be a defining factor.

I accept that certain counties will have larger populations to my own but I think there is an argument that because one county has at least double population over every other and in most cases a lot more than double population that this could be argued is an unfair advantage.

Oasis_Dublin

Dots1982 wrote: »

I'm lost to your point.

In one post I say I believe that overwhelming population advantage over every other county is the defining factor in Dublin being the best.

In another I say Kilkenny and Kerry may have a larger population than certain counties but since they are roughly in line with every other county apart from Dublin I don't belive it to be a defining factor.

I accept that certain counties will have larger populations to my own but I think there is an argument that because one county has at least double population over every other and in most cases a lot more than double population that this could be argued is an unfair advantage.

That's your opinion and you're entitled to it. Just don't claim it to be fact.

jack presley

Dots1982 wrote: »

I accept that certain counties will have larger populations to my own but I think there is an argument that because one county has at least double population over every other and in most cases a lot more than double population that this could be argued is an unfair advantage.

Hasn't Dublin always had the largest population though? Why has this only become an issue now?

Dots1982

Oasis_Dublin wrote: »

That's your opinion and you're entitled to it. Just don't claim it to be fact.

Surely its a fact that Dublin have more people than every other county.

davidfitz22

Dots1982 wrote: »

I'm lost to your point.

In one post I say I believe that overwhelming population advantage over every other county is the defining factor in Dublin being the best.

In another I say Kilkenny and Kerry may have a larger population than certain counties but since they are roughly in line with every other county apart from Dublin I don't belive it to be a defining factor.

I accept that certain counties will have larger populations to my own but I think there is an argument that because one county has at least double population over every other and in most cases a lot more than double population that this could be argued is an unfair advantage.

Your aguement is flawed, why is china so bad at football and other non olympic sports? why is america so bad at rugby? they have massive populations don't they?
People in dublin don't live their lives around the local GAA club like the people from rural counties do. you seen what mayo was like before the final, EVERYONE was onboard but in dublin it's just another eent. Here in donegal was the same last year.

Dublin are champions, get over it. congrats to them.

ArmaniJeanss

P_1 wrote: »

In most sports though generally teams from more populous areas do tend to succeed more. Some examples include:

Football: Barcelona and Madrid in Spain, Manchester and London clubs in England, Glasgow clubs in Scotland, Munich and Ruhr area clubs in Germany.

Rugby: Leinster, Toulouse

I suppose the key difference is that in all those examples (bar Leinster rugby I suppose) is that another team from the same area is still able come along and split the local support base, so for example we end up with 20 clubs in London with a core 3/4 of them at the top table, a few yoyos and some always in the lower leagues.
Also other teams outside those large catchment areas can grow their finances differently and 'buy in' the London players.

Whereas it's hard to see what if anything Leitrim can do to close the gap on Dublin under the GAA structures.

I suppose an interesting question for another thread (this one being a train wreck) is if you were starting GAA from scratch now and wanted 32 participants would it be considered sensible to use the county system.

Oasis_Dublin

Dots1982 wrote: »

Surely its a fact that Dublin have more people than every other county.

That is a fact. Claiming that it's the defining reasons for any success Dublin have is an opinion.

Dots1982

jack presley wrote: »

Hasn't Dublin always had the largest population though? Why has this only become an issue now?

Well Dublin have always being more successful than all but one other county so it could be argued its always been a factor just more of a one now. Cork and Galway are two of the most populous counties in Ireland and they are the next successful. Leitrim, Wicklow, Longford, Carlow have never won an All Ireland and have little population So its not a new thing.

Dublin to their credit have make great strides at underage but it is easier to make those strides with a huge amount of population than in say Carlow or Wicklow.

prospect

jack presley wrote: »

Hasn't Dublin always had the largest population though? Why has this only become an issue now?

And why does it not apply to the Ladies, Hurling, U21, minors etc. etc.



Reading all this (thread, not jacks post), you would swear Dublin had put together a dozen consecutive Senior Titles

If anything, based on some logic here, Dublin have underachieved and maybe they need more financial support from the GAA.

Dots1982

Oasis_Dublin wrote: »

That is a fact. Claiming that it's the defining reasons for any success Dublin have is an opinion.

Yeah, ok. Its an opinion based on a fact I suppose.

keeponhurling

Dublin has far more traffic than any other county, and it can take ages to get across the city.
Maybe splitting club championships into South Dublin and North Dublin would make things easier. Or even just split it in the earlier rounds.

I don't think the OP is having an anti-Dublin rant, there is merit in the idea. A new strong team in hurling would be good for the sport.
North v South "derby" games would certainly generate huge interest. There is certainly enough strength in depth in Dublin to support two strong teams in both codes at all levels.

However any decision should be left to the Dublin County Board.

Dots1982

prospect wrote: »

And why does it not apply to the Ladies, Hurling, U21, minors etc. etc.

Maybe because representation is lower. I would say there are more native hurlers in kilkenny than Dublin

Dyr

P_1 wrote: »

In most sports though generally teams from more populous areas do tend to succeed more. Some examples include:

Football: Barcelona and Madrid in Spain, Manchester and London clubs in England, Glasgow clubs in Scotland, Munich and Ruhr area clubs in Germany.

Rugby: Leinster, Toulouse

But its not fair

Especially when Dublin win two All Ireland's in the same decade :pac: