Season 5, Episode 16: Felina

Wacker The Attacker

Custardpi wrote: »

Overall pretty good episode but in the usual BB style there was too much stuff that happened too conveniently so that the necessities of the plot could be met. The Nazi compound scene was particuarly lazy in this regard. What if they hadn't let him park the car in that precise position next to the house? What if the guy who searched him had kept the keys in his pocket instead of leaving them on the pool table? That's stuff that Walt couldn't plan for. If they feared him wearing a wire then they might well have searched the car too, for fear of there being a listening device inside that could pick up sounds from within the house.
In short a ton of things could have gone wrong with the plan, ending in Walt getting a bullet in the head & the Nazis continuing as before. In real life at least one of them would have happened. I know Breaking Bad is fictional, but it kind of annoys me when it has stuff that is as completely implausible as that.

I'll miss BB & definitely think it's up there with the great TV shows but it's sloppy writing like this that stops it from being the greatest of them.

This isn't real life.

In real life Jesse would have been killed 4 seasons ago.

Vaxxine

Greatest series of all time (so far), hands down.

Custardpi

Wacker The Attacker wrote: »

This isn't real life.

In real life Jesse would have been killed 4 seasons ago.

Which is why in the very next sentence I acknowledged that the show was fictional. Even by the standards of that episode (in which Jesse saves Walt by killing Gayle) this one was particularly contrived.

Wacker The Attacker

Mckenzie Tart Incense wrote: »

I'd have rather Walt go out in a blaze, ie 'Suicide by Cop' then he gets his wish and the PD get satisfaction for Hanks death.. Lame end for Walt IMO.

2 shoot outs in three episodes would have been lamer

IvaBigWun

Dman001 wrote: »

Someone had posted the interview last week:

Jessica Hecht (Gretchen) was asked what it was like to have Bryan Cranston curse at her. Her response:



http://blogs.amctv.com/breaking-bad/2009/05/jessica-hecht-interview/

While it would have been impossible to take this from the series as it was never said, it was always implied Gretchen was the reason for him leaving Gray Matter.

It was hinted at they were a couple. It was a possibility he left over her. But it was never a given.

And its ridiculous to assume a fan of the show should know the background info on Walt and Gretchen based on media interviews

Wacker The Attacker

Custardpi wrote: »

Which is why in the very next sentence I acknowledged that the show was fictional.

Why are you bitching then?

If this were real life walt would have taken Elliotts money and we'd have been over after 5 episodes

LowOdour

Custardpi wrote: »

Overall pretty good episode but in the usual BB style there was too much stuff that happened too conveniently so that the necessities of the plot could be met. The Nazi compound scene was particuarly lazy in this regard. What if they hadn't let him park the car in that precise position next to the house? What if the guy who searched him had kept the keys in his pocket instead of leaving them on the pool table? That's stuff that Walt couldn't plan for. If they feared him wearing a wire then they might well have searched the car too, for fear of there being a listening device inside that could pick up sounds from within the house.
In short a ton of things could have gone wrong with the plan, ending in Walt getting a bullet in the head & the Nazis continuing as before. In real life at least one of them would have happened. I know Breaking Bad is fictional, but it kind of annoys me when it has stuff that is as completely implausible as that.

I'll miss BB & definitely think it's up there with the great TV shows but it's sloppy writing like this that stops it from being the greatest of them.

Maybe next time, dont watch a show about a chemistry teacher who becomes cooks meth and develops a business with a drug lord who also serves fried chicken!

Wacker The Attacker

LowOdour wrote: »

Maybe next time, dont watch a show about a chemistry teacher who becomes cooks meth and develops a business with a drug lord who also serves fried chicken!

Thou shalt not take the name of the "Gustavo" thy God in vain

IvaBigWun

Got through reading all 60 odd pages. What an amazing online community the Boards Breaking Bad forum was

the_monkey

It wasn't hinted that they were a couple - they were for sure, you see this in flashbacks (1x05 I think) and in discussions Walt and Gretchen had in S2.

Custardpi

Wacker The Attacker wrote: »

Why are you bitching then?

If this were real life walt would have taken Elliotts money and we'd have been over after 5 episodes

Not necessarily at all. I completely buy & understand Walt's character arc. His journey from humble loser to criminal mastermind was on the whole very well constructed. Even in real life someone who felt as aggrieved as Walt did over how things ended with Gray Matter might well have been too stubborn & proud to take Elliott's money. The scene with Elliott & Gretchen was actually one of the better parts of Felina as it showed his life coming full circle.

Mr.Prodston

Custardpi wrote: »

Overall pretty good episode but in the usual BB style there was too much stuff that happened too conveniently so that the necessities of the plot could be met. The Nazi compound scene was particuarly lazy in this regard. What if they hadn't let him park the car in that precise position next to the house? What if the guy who searched him had kept the keys in his pocket instead of leaving them on the pool table? That's stuff that Walt couldn't plan for. If they feared him wearing a wire then they might well have searched the car too, for fear of there being a listening device inside that could pick up sounds from within the house.
In short a ton of things could have gone wrong with the plan, ending in Walt getting a bullet in the head & the Nazis continuing as before. In real life at least one of them would have happened. I know Breaking Bad is fictional, but it kind of annoys me when it has stuff that is as completely implausible as that.

I'll miss BB & definitely think it's up there with the great TV shows but it's sloppy writing like this that stops it from being the greatest of them.

He had obviously alerted the cops to his whereabouts and I'm pretty sure the dozens of cops would have discovered the neo-nazi meth lab with said neo-nazi's locked inside the compound that's difficult to escape from. Walt was a dead man walking so he knew the cops were on their way anyway. If Plan A didn't work then Plan B was almost fool proof. Skyler could tell them that Walt told her all about them in their chat, she knows Jack killed Hank, not Walt.

I see what you're saying but Walt has gotten the rub of the green give or take for the 5 seasons. He knows this by saying in this episode and I'm paraphrasing here "Just get me home and I'll do the rest" and to Skylar "I liked it, I was good at it"

Daftendirekt

Possible alternate ending to be released on DVD? :pac:

The Onion wrote:

Capping off five seasons of critically acclaimed television, the AMC series Breaking Bad concluded its run Sunday night with the shocking revelation that the entirety of the show’s story—from Walter White’s diagnosis with cancer to his transformation into a ruthless methamphetamine kingpin—was in fact merely the plotline of a crime novel that character Marie Schrader had shoplifted from a local bookstore. “What I wanted to create for the finale was an uncompromising conclusion focused on the show’s true emotional core: Marie’s kleptomania,” show creator Vince Gilligan said of the episode’s revelatory last scene, in which flashbacks to beloved moments from the show are intercut with shots of Marie flipping to chapters in the novel such as “Heisenberg’s New Hat,” “Trouble With Gus,” and “The Train Robbery.” “From day one of writing the show, I knew exactly how the story would play out: with virtually all of its central characters other than Marie—including Walter White, Jesse Pinkman, Saul Goodman, everyone—revealed to be fictitious figures in a paperback thriller Marie felt compelled to slip into her jacket in an Albuquerque-area Barnes & Noble. Marie uses this pulp crime novel to help herself deal with the guilt she has stemming from her own very real criminal behavior, which she tries desperately to hide from her husband, local mineralogist Hank Schrader.” Gilligan told reporters he is especially pleased with the final shot of the series, in which Marie closes the stolen book, revealing it had been titled Breaking Bad all along.

Wacker The Attacker

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/29/opinion/sunday/douthat-the-world-according-to-team-walt.html?_r=2&

Oafley Jones

LowOdour wrote: »

Maybe next time, dont watch a show about a chemistry teacher who becomes cooks meth and develops a business with a drug lord who also serves fried chicken!

Hate this attitude, it's the worst kind of binary reaction you see on the net. No nuance, something is either OMG best ever or ****ing bull****. There's no room for critical comment.

Loved BB, but it definitely had its problems, it suffered from a happy coincidence of circumstance when required and I've always been irked by the some of the tactics they pulled to build tension - e.g the ominous shot of the teddy bear floating in the pool in season 2, hinting at something ominous for the White family being a particularly cheap device.

I'll miss it, but it's nowhere near as great as some people make out. Only got round to finishing The Shield this year - there's a great finale, that feels organic and doesn't ever cheat the audience.

Custardpi

LowOdour wrote: »

Maybe next time, dont watch a show about a chemistry teacher who becomes cooks meth and develops a business with a drug lord who also serves fried chicken!

As I've said elsewhere I'm prepared to suspend my disbelief for the main parts of the show. After all, if you don't believe a chemistry teacher (even one who's a down on his luck genius) could get involved in the meth business then the show obviously isn't going to work. Similarly, if you're too much of a stickler for the strict laws of physics & biology then stuff like Star Trek & X-Men probably aren't for you. But at the end of the day people are still people regardless of what universe they're operating in. When characters do things that are completely at odds with their previous behaviour that to me is lazy. The Nazis previously showed themselves to be paranoid about security (CCTV cameras catching Jesse within seconds), by the standards set for them by the show itself they shouldn't have been so sloppy.

A_Sober_Paddy

Oafley Jones wrote: »

Hate this attitude, it's the worst kind of binary reaction you see on the net. No nuance, something is either OMG best ever or ****ing bull****. There's no room for critical comment.

Loved BB, but it definitely had its problems, it suffered from a happy coincidence of circumstance when required and I've always been irked by the some of the tactics they pulled to build tension - e.g the ominous shot of the teddy bear floating in the pool in season 2, hinting at something ominous for the White family being a particularly cheap device.

I'll miss it, but it's nowhere near as great as some people make out. Only got round to finishing The Shield this year - there's a great finale, that feels organic and doesn't ever cheat the audience.

How did BB cheat the audience?

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

Oafley Jones wrote: »

Hate this attitude, it's the worst kind of binary reaction you see on the net. No nuance, something is either OMG best ever or ****ing bull****. There's no room for critical comment.

Loved BB, but it definitely had its problems, it suffered from a happy coincidence of circumstance when required and I've always been irked by the some of the tactics they pulled to build tension - e.g the ominous shot of the teddy bear floating in the pool in season 2, hinting at something ominous for the White family being a particularly cheap device.

I'll miss it, but it's nowhere near as great as some people make out. Only got round to finishing The Shield this year - there's a great finale, that feels organic and doesn't ever cheat the audience.

I still get a

bad feeling in my stomach when I think about poor Ronnie.

willmunny1990

Anyone no when the latest episode of talking bad will be up on netflix?

Paully D

jos28 wrote: »

Very happy with that ending. All loose ends tied up, plenty of symbolism and great soundtrack. Definitely NOT a Dexter style finale. Anyone else think that Walt bore a strange resemblance to Jim Royle in the final scene

My arse!

ceadaoin.

Well I haven't read any posts in this thread or any other site bar the pre episode discussion so I don't know what the general consensus is.

So a bit late to the party but I just finished watching it and I think that was breaking bad at its best. Cried during the Skyler/holly/Walt jr (I will never accept Flynn!) scenes

Was delighted to see badger and skinny p back if even for just one scene.

My only complaint is I would have liked to have seen a bit more dialogue between him and Jesse. I feel like Jesse has barely spoken the past 3 episodes. Plus, I want to know what happens to him!

ringadingding

When Walt waved his hand and the lasers appeared.
My head nearly hit the fèckin ceiling.

Him closing the doors as he entered the house, so calm, reminded me of Hannibal lector.

Eathrin

Do you reckon Gretchen and Elliot would do as Walt asked if he didn't add the threat?

spockety

Eathrin wrote: »

Do you reckon Gretchen and Elliot would do as Walt asked if he didn't add the threat?

Definitely not. And Walt knew that too.

Vaxxine

ringadingding wrote: »

When Walt waved his hand and the lasers appeared.
My head nearly hit the fèckin ceiling.

Him closing the doors as he entered the house, so calm, reminded me of Hannibal lector.

Loved that scene. Also loved when Gretchen and Elliot walk by where Walt is sitting in the shadow, then he un crosses his legs, and gets up, brilliant!

ceadaoin.

Eathrin wrote: »

Do you reckon Gretchen and Elliot would do as Walt asked if he didn't add the threat?

No. You could tell by Elliot's whole demeanour that he had no intention of doing it and Gretchen outright said she wouldn't!

LuckyCharms

Some great scenes in the finale, it will definitely be missed.

Ardent

Custardpi wrote: »

Overall pretty good episode but in the usual BB style there was too much stuff that happened too conveniently so that the necessities of the plot could be met. The Nazi compound scene was particuarly lazy in this regard. What if they hadn't let him park the car in that precise position next to the house? What if the guy who searched him had kept the keys in his pocket instead of leaving them on the pool table? That's stuff that Walt couldn't plan for. If they feared him wearing a wire then they might well have searched the car too, for fear of there being a listening device inside that could pick up sounds from within the house.
In short a ton of things could have gone wrong with the plan, ending in Walt getting a bullet in the head & the Nazis continuing as before. In real life at least one of them would have happened. I know Breaking Bad is fictional, but it kind of annoys me when it has stuff that is as completely implausible as that.

I'll miss BB & definitely think it's up there with the great TV shows but it's sloppy writing like this that stops it from being the greatest of them.

Agreed. Entertaining episode but way too contrived. You can just imagine gilligan & co were scratching their heads forever trying to figure out how to dispatch all the nazis in one fell swoop. Disappointingly lazy end IMO.

Custardpi

Even with the threat Elliott & Gretchen are immensely wealthy. Hiring a top security team to protect them would be no hassle whatsoever. Lots of wealthy & powerful people who have received death threats manage to survive just fine once they've put such measures in place. Something of a gamble on Walt's part for this reason. That said, i still think it would work out for him because of the almost supernatural persona that his alter-ego Heisenburg has acquired, no doubt embellished by lurid stories in the press. The general public may well have been convinced that Walt was, as Jesse put it "the devil", capable of anything. A simple phone call to a top security/bodyguard firm would have been enough to stop Walt (if he had actually been in control of two hitmen instead of a couple of stoners with laserpens), but couldn't have stopped Heisenburg.

Shane St.

What a show!
I really enjoyed the ending

OhHiMark

IvaBigWun wrote: »

I need to watch it again without all those ad breaks but I think it needed a much darker ending.

My thoughts on first viewing:

There was no need for the Grey Matter duo, giving them the money felt forced.

Skyler and the kids should have been murdered by the Nazis, Walt is left with nothing to lose and all to avenge.

Ridiculous A Team gun aside (Walt seems to be the fastest learner of how an M60 gun works ever) it was the only option the writers had left themselves for killing the Nazis. So as silly as it is lets say the bad guys go out that way and we still have Walt and Jesse at the end, Jesse refuses to kill Mr White because he realises that was part of his problem, taking orders from Heisenberg.

Walt tells Jesse where his money is stashed, Jesse speeds off into the sunset and Walt dies in the lab, a completely broken man because his family were killed by Jack & Co.



Vince Giligan: "Its like Walt says 'everybody dies in this movie"



well too many people lived for my liking Vince. It almost feels like the AMC executives got involved with the ending, it will leak out eventually if they did.

Over a third of IMDB users have awarded this episode a one out of ten http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2301455/ratings?ref_=tt_ov_rt

Thats a bit harsh, it was (on first viewing) a 5, which isnt good enough for a 10/10 show

0.4% is not over a third.

OhHiMark

Torqay wrote: »

Detached from Reality? Sure. I'll give you some "reality": make no mistake, a real crime boss of Jack Welker's caliber would have put a bullet into Walter's head, buried him and Jesse with Hank and Gomie and be done with it. Take the 80 million and call it quits. Of course that would have been too easy, so the writers chose to ridicule the show and turned them into "good" Nazis who spared the lives of Walter, Marie, Skyler, Baby Holly and Jesse. And that ungrateful Walter White came after them with a remote controlled machine gun for no good reason. This was the essence of the final two episodes.

I'm beginning to think you're taking the piss at this point.

Skerries

Mike just being Mike

IvaBigWun

OhHiMark wrote: »

0.4% is not over a third.

Did you continue reading? Ive since held my hands up to mis-reading the IMDB page

Vaxxine

Skinny Pete scrubs up well.

dave1982

Oafley Jones wrote: »

Only got round to finishing The Shield this year - there's a great finale, that feels organic and doesn't ever cheat the audience.

Agreed that had set it self for 2 endings since the very first episode, but it ended in away noone would have guessed.

luketitz

WOWsenberg. I'm at a loss for words after watching that. I can feel a void in my soul already!

mathstalk

Sometimes Walt is so smart, you don't know what's going on and then you're just like "wowww, that's what's going on", and that's what it's like.

pookiesboo

Can anyone explain what the scene where he put his watch up on the payphone was about?

dave1982

pookiesboo wrote: »

Can anyone explain what the scene where he put his watch up on the payphone was about?

Was it the watch Jesse gave him?

pookiesboo

dave1982 wrote: »

Was it the watch Jesse gave him?

Thanks,yeah just found this online

1. Gilligan explained that the reason Walt placed his watch (the one Jesse gave him for his 51st birthday) on top of the payphone after pretending to be the New York Times reporter was only retrofitted symbolism: The reason he had to do it was because they realized that in the flash-forward of him at Denny's that they'd shot for episode 501, Walt wasn't wearing a watch, so they had to explain where it went for continuity reasons. And so, out of necessity, they came up with what Gilligan called the "artsy fartsy" reason: It was a symbol of Walt, seeing the end is near, cutting ties with one of his "arch-nemeses," Jesse.

Grimebox

How is the location of Hank and Gomie going to help Skylar at all?

dave1982

Yeah I got that from watching "saying times up end is near"

mathstalk

dave1982 wrote: »

Yeah I got that from watching "saying times up end is near"

Hmmm, I'm not sure if BB would be so blatant in their symbolism, but maybe.

FOREBALLS

This was the greatest tv finale since The Wire. Vince Gilligan has created one of the greatest anti heroes since Taxi Driver. Walts admission to Skyler that he had done it all for his own satisfaction was a great moment and just goes to show he was probably motivated by losing out on getting recognition for the Grey Matters success. The rich plots, stunning filming locations and carefully crafted characters have elevated this show to another level that has raised the bar for future tv productions. Can't wait to see 'Call Saul' spin offs haven't got a great track record but Saul could have some very interesting clients.

mathstalk

I got the vibe he died naturally at the end, from his cancer. I googled, but no immediate results. Anyone think otherwise ?

greenflash

Grimebox wrote: »

How is the location of Hank and Gomie going to help Skylar at all?

Skyler can use the info as a plea bargain with the DEA. It has been mentioned in the last couple of episodes.

OhHiMark

IvaBigWun wrote: »

Did you continue reading? Ive since held my hands up to mis-reading the IMDB page

I apologise, I did not continue reading. I knew I'd forget to go back if I moved on.

Eathrin

mathstalk wrote: »

I got the vibe he died naturally at the end, from his cancer. I googled, but no immediate results. Anyone think otherwise ?

Not the loss of blood?