Season 5, Episode 16: Felina

conf101

Was it ever explained where he got the M60 from?

Big Game

ceadaoin. wrote: »

I think he intended to save Jesse. When he finally admitted to himself the real reason he became a meth cook, he would also have realised the role he played in all the crap that's happened to Jesse and how much he has suffered because of Walt and his manipulation.

When he confirmed that the blue meth was still on the streets he realised it must be Jesse cooking it. He knew that Todd was nowhere near good enough to produce meth of that quality. He also would have known that Jesse would never willingly cook for the nazis so probably figured he was likely doing it under duress. The last he saw of them, Jesse was being handed off to the nazis to be tortured. I doubt he thought that suddenly they were partners after that.

Don't think he had any intention of saving Jesse until he saw the state of him, their relationship had completely broken down, it was spur of the moment once he saw how much he'd been suffering.

splashthecash

First scene from episode 1 of season 5

Penn

conf101 wrote: »

Was it ever explained where he got the M60 from?

The scene in the Denny's restaurant at the start of Season 5. I'm pretty sure it's the same guy he bought the snub-nosed revolver from in Season 4 when he was planning on killing Gus.

murpho999

conf101 wrote: »

Was it ever explained where he got the M60 from?

Why do people keep asking this? It was in the very first flash forward.

Also, I thought it was typical of Todd to just look outside when shooting stopped rather than show any concern for the gang or his family.

barone

Anyone else think walt tried his creation at the very end ?

Look at his expression..almost happy..spaced out..


Maybe?

conf101

murpho999 wrote: »

Why do people keep asking this? It was in the very first flash forward.

Also, I thought it was typical of Todd to just look outside when shooting stopped rather than show any concern for the gang or his family.

Whoa there buddy, just asking a question. I'd forgotten exactly how much was shown in that flash forward.

Ilik Urgee

Nerdlingr wrote: »

Jesse wasn't in the basement when Walt choked Krazy8.

No, but he was listening in from upstairs no? Could very well be wrong too..

Cyrusmekon

Doing the rounds on twitter .

"Breaking Bad had 62 episodes in total. The 62nd element on the periodic table is Samarium. Samarium is used to treat lung cancer."


Amazing.....

ceadaoin.

Ilik Urgee wrote: »

No, but he was listening in from upstairs no? Could very well be wrong too..

From what I remember Walt lost the coin toss and had to kill him so Jesse went out leaving him to deal with it. He even called at one point to ask was it done yet. When he came back it was all over and the body disposed of

Nerdlingr

Ilik Urgee wrote: »

No, but he was listening in from upstairs no? Could very well be wrong too..

Jesse is long gone from the house.

Its actually one of my favourite scenes from the whole series. walt putting the broken plate back together and realising that he has to kill Krazy8. The resignation of the fact that he has to take another's life in order to protect his and his familys. The first on a slippery slope.

Trafford Lad

I don't think it has been mentioned but when Marie is on the phone to Skyler about the police being spread all over Alberquerque and having to deal with loads of calls in relation to Walt sightings - that those (or some of those) calls could be coming from Badger & Skinny Pete at Walt's behest.

I can visualise the 2 boys stoned out of their heads ringing in phoney Walt sightings to the Police

Ardent

Cyrusmekon wrote: »

Doing the rounds on twitter .

"Breaking Bad had 62 episodes in total. The 62nd element on the periodic table is Samarium. Samarium is used to treat lung cancer."


Amazing.....

It's primarily used in magnets and as a catalyst in chemical reactions, but hey, let's latch on to the cancer angle as it has a tenuous link to Breaking Bad. FFS.

Boom_Bap

murpho999 wrote: »

Also, I thought it was typical of Todd to just look outside when shooting stopped rather than show any concern for the gang or his family.

I think he was looking out to see who the shooter was. He had no idea it was Walts rig up to that point. So from his perspective, there was potentially someone outside reloading.

Tombo2001

AnonoBoy wrote: »

The New Yorker puts forward the theory that it was a dream and Walt died in the car before finding the keys.

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/culture/2013/09/breaking-bad-finale-reviewed.html [/QUOTE]


Having read it, yes I would agree with her.

I think there is too much redemption for Walt in this episode. Ultimately it was too much of a happy ending. I dont think he, as a character, deserved to go out in a blaze of glory. The thought process behind the episode seems to be "what would Heisenberg have wanted?".

If the final shot had been Walt lying frozen in the car, and the whole episode was a dream, that would have been much more powerful in my humble opinion.

Plus, in a series where nobody had a damn clue what was going to happen in the next episode, the final was fairly predictable.

So I've revised my view on mature reflection.

grames_bond

Ardent wrote: »

It's primarily used in magnets and as a catalyst in chemical reactions, but hey, let's latch on to the cancer angle as it has a tenuous link to Breaking Bad. FFS.

clairefontaine

krudler wrote: »

Was Walt actually on his way to save Jesse or was he going to use the m60 to mow him down as well as the Nazis? he's still pissed at him and it was only when he saw he's in shackles and not there of his own will that he saved him.

the m60 being in the perfect place to wipe everyone out was pretty contrived but the hell with it, it worked. At first I thought he was going to use it as a distraction by having it fire randomly at or over the Nazi's camp.

I think he went there to include Jesse in his killing spree, whe he thought Jesse ha partnered up with the Nazi and was selling "HIS product".

Then when he saw he was a captive slave he decided to free him. Walt was dying anyway, Jesse was no longer a competitor or any chance of being one.

jcsoulinger

Cyrusmekon wrote: »

Doing the rounds on twitter .

"Breaking Bad had 62 episodes in total. The 62nd element on the periodic table is Samarium. Samarium is used to treat lung cancer."


Amazing.....

The depths people will go to make something out of nothing makes me feel sad.

Basq

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATDbz0v_g3c

jcsoulinger

barone wrote: »

Anyone else think walt tried his creation at the very end ?

Look at his expression..almost happy..spaced out..


Maybe?

Would like to think he did but I don't think there is enough evidence to back that up so no is the answer to that.

murpho999

conf101 wrote: »

Whoa there buddy, just asking a question. I'd forgotten exactly how much was shown in that flash forward.

Yes, seen it being asked several times in this thread and surprises me as it was a key moment at the start of S5.

D-FENS

Nerdlingr wrote: »

Jesse is long gone from the house.

Yep, off getting a Wendy.

Dman001

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Having read it, yes I would agree with her.

I think there is too much redemption for Walt in this episode. Ultimately it was too much of a happy ending. I dont think he, as a character, deserved to go out in a blaze of glory. The thought process behind the episode seems to be "what would Heisenberg have wanted?".

If the final shot had been Walt lying frozen in the car, and the whole episode was a dream, that would have been much more powerful in my humble opinion.

Plus, in a series where nobody had a damn clue what was going to happen in the next episode, the final was fairly predictable.

So I've revised my view on mature reflection.

Many are saying this, along with Walt died a happy man and got away with everything. I'm not seeing how he was in any way redeemed, and in my view he wasn't on some mission for redemption in this episode anyway. Redemption, in my book, was if he got on his hands and knees in front of his family, begged for their forgiveness and showed genuine remorse, then handing himself in to the police. The total opposite happened in this episode - he avoided the police as best he could, he showed no real regret to what he did (although the opposite could be said to the outcome of his actions), and didn't go into some desperate plea to be forgived. All he did, and all he could do, was tie up the loose ends and assist his family where he could.

WHIP IT!

Dave1982
I wonder will Skylar be killed in this episode?

Timmyctc wrote: »

Its sadly too late to be any good now. Stupid bitch.

Have only came across this thread now, but this made me laugh like f*ck

I couldn't stand her character from Day 1...

dave1982

Tombo2001

Dman001 wrote: »

Many are saying this, along with Walt died a happy man and got away with everything. I'm not seeing how he was in any way redeemed, and in my view he wasn't on some mission for redemption in this episode anyway. Redemption, in my book, was if he got on his hands and knees in front of his family, begged for their forgiveness and showed genuine remorse, then handing himself in to the police. The total opposite happened in this episode - he avoided the police as best he could, he showed no real regret to what he did (although the opposite could be said to the outcome of his actions), and didn't go into some desperate plea to be forgived. All he did, and all he could do, was tie up the loose ends and assist his family where he could.

Thats redemption if you were Walt, but you're not.

Redemption in his own eyes is that 'he won', and he did win.

You could see from the episode that he had reconciled himself with the fact that he was losing his family; but the thing is he was dying anyway.

Rjd2

charlie_says wrote: »

Killing the Lydia lady was pretty damn harsh with the ricin.

she ordered the death of numerous people in the show,(Declan's crew,the prisoners, Walter) and wanted Skylar dead as well.

She was an absolute monster, can't understand why anyone would have any sympathy for her really.

Dman001

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Thats redemption if you were Walt, but you're not.

Redemption in his own eyes is that 'he won', and he did win.

You could see from the episode that he had reconciled himself with the fact that he was losing his family; but the thing is he was dying anyway.

"Winning" in Walt's eyes would be to continue to make meth, with no knowledge by his family, and beating cancer. Walt was at his most content when he was producing Meth for Lydia with Todd, his only problem at the time was Sylar despised him and was the ultimate reason he gave it up. That's not to say he wasn't content when he gave it up, he was (or seemed to be) before Hank found out.

In this episode, Walt made best of his current situation. He can't exactly say he "won", and totally disagree that his redemption were his acts in this episode. He was beyond winning or losing, redemption or damnation.

BreakingBoard

Just a little thing but I wasn't too gone on the song at the end. I understand why it was used given the 'I got what I deserved' lyrics and all that but I just felt it was used for the sake of the lyrics and that alone. No real emotion to it. I don't think a song was needed to show that perhaps Walt knew that him dying was deserved.
I think I'll edit my own ending and throw in something like Johnny Cash's/NIN version of 'Hurt'. That said, I'm emotional enough as it is that it's all over

RIP Walt, someone that no man could kill, not cancer. In the end, the only man worthy of killing Heisenberg was Walt himself

Big Game

Tombo2001 wrote: »

AnonoBoy wrote: »

The New Yorker puts forward the theory that it was a dream and Walt died in the car before finding the keys.

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/culture/2013/09/breaking-bad-finale-reviewed.html


Having read it, yes I would agree with her.

I think there is too much redemption for Walt in this episode. Ultimately it was too much of a happy ending. I dont think he, as a character, deserved to go out in a blaze of glory. The thought process behind the episode seems to be "what would Heisenberg have wanted?".

If the final shot had been Walt lying frozen in the car, and the whole episode was a dream, that would have been much more powerful in my humble opinion.

Plus, in a series where nobody had a damn clue what was going to happen in the next episode, the final was fairly predictable.

So I've revised my view on mature reflection.

It's not a theory that it was all a dream, she's saying it would have made more sense to her if it was. Much as I found the finale slightly predictable and agree with much of your post, I found the article to be fairly standard pretentious New Yorker fare in the main to be honest and it would have been an utter farce had the whole poisoning, shoot out, releasing Jessie and giving him his redemption turned out to be a dream sequence. Not to mention the closure to Marie with the co-ordinates to Hanks burial site.

Big Game

Ardent wrote: »

It's primarily used in magnets and as a catalyst in chemical reactions, but hey, let's latch on to the cancer angle as it has a tenuous link to Breaking Bad. FFS.

Not to mention the fact that plenty of other elements on the table are also used in treatments of lung cancer so it's not as if 62 is the only one.

clairefontaine

I thought there were two slivers of justice. One was when WW had to pay 10k for one hour of human company and when he finally told the truth to Skylar. That's it. And that doesn't even one close to any sense of real justice, just two teeny tiny little crumbs.

onliner

Does anyone else think that the writer Vince Gilligan had a cameo appearance outside as a cop when Walt last spoke to Skyler

2ndcoming

I can't get these posts insinuating Walt somehow won.

The only winning outcome for him would have been dying on a bed in a cancer ward, surrounded by his loving family, who would be left a successful chain of car washes to run. His loving in-laws would be none the wiser and all his family would be safe from danger.

What he got was a hollow victory that only righted some of the wrongs that he himself had caused. His son hated him, his daughter would never remember him and would probably grow up to hate her infamous father and his brother-in-law died because of him.

He wasn't truly redeemed, he died on the floor of a meth lab as police closed in. It was a sad end, but he knew himself, he got what he deserved. He was playing the Heisenberg game right up to the moment Jack put a bullet in Hank's head. The man we see in Granite State and Felina is no longer playing that game, he is a broken man who realises he f**ked everything up, but is still enough of a genius to be able to do some good with his last moments.

2ndcoming

clairefontaine wrote: »

I thought there were two slivers of justice. One was when WW had to pay 10k for one hour of human company and when he finally told the truth to Skylar. That's it. And that doesn't even one close to any sense of real justice, just two teeny tiny little crumbs.

This reminds me of David Chase's reaction to the Sopranos ending. There was a backlash from some who felt Tony should have been killed on screen and spelled out. He could never get it, because you were supposed to root for Tony all along. I imagine Vince G feels much the same way about Walt. He was always on borrowed time, he had terminal lung cancer. That's not exactly a nice way for a non-smoker's life to be about to end at 52, but I can't believe anyone who watched (and got) Walt's journey from the Pilot to Ozymandias to bleeding out on the floor of a meth lab wanted to see him and his family suffer more?!

duckworth

Found the finale a bit disappointing - a kind of 'going out in a blaze of glory' crowd-pleasing ending that seemed like quite a cop-out from the writers.

Ultimately though it was a great show. Really smart piece of entertainment, a good notch above most other TV series.

I do think alot of the praise is over the top - it never had any of the depth of The Sopranos or The Wire, instead it chose suspense and narrative driven action rather than real examination of the characters or themes.

One thing that did annoy me throughout - it never once touched on the effects of Walt's meth cooking. He arguably caused hundreds more people to die, and countless broken lives by simply putting the drugs out on the street. At the beginning I thought they might show the effects of his work, and that his guilt/conscience might have to deal with it, but the show never once addressed it.

Was still glued to each week though!

johnny_ultimate

A very solid finale, if perhaps a bit less brave and bold than I'd have expected. Not saying it needed to be Sopranos level ambiguous or anything like that, but it felt like a strangely formulaic conclusion in many respects, almost as if it was cheering on Walt to some degree (yes, despite leaving a huge body count and some terrified ex-friends behind him ) despite the show typically remaining more neutral and objective in the portrayal of the protagonist. Even aesthetically it really reminded me of (spoiler for a certain divisive TV show)

Jack's fate at the end of Lost

: an anti-hero having his final moment of spiritual catharsis before expiring. It just lacked the real emotional and thematic punch I would have expected: a familiar ending for a show so often capable of the unfamiliar. But it did make sense within the world and characters, which despite not exactly being an Earth shatteringly ambitious ending was a fine conclusion to what was five seasons of superb drama. If it was a little disappointing, it's only because the standard it set for itself was absurdly high, especially in the home stretch.

It was a good to great episode in many, many respects: it was full of excellent individual moments and a definitive sense of closure that gave just the right amount of the time to sending off characters and subplots. Vince Gilligan worked some minor visual wonders here: that ominous, 'holy ****' shot of Lydia pouring in the ricin; the way the divine intervention of the opening scene contrasted with the otherworldly crane shot at the end; the constantly smart, effective utilisation of focus, lighting and shadows. The episode was at its best when articulating Walt's mental state or narrative developments / tension through cinematography. Visuals will undoubtedly be one of the sad losses now that the show has taken its final bow: TV is now that little bit less aesthetically interesting.

Frisbee

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Even aesthetically it really reminded me of (spoiler for a certain divisive TV show)

Jack's fate at the end of Lost

: an anti-hero having his final moment of spiritual catharsis before expiring.

If you're going to talk about a spoiler for another show you should really give the name of the show outside the spoiler otherwise how the fúck is anyone supposed to know whether they can read it or not?

Jimmy Iovine

Riddle101 wrote: »

Great episode and ending. For all the bad Walt had done, I don't think I would want to see his end, any other way. Dying in the Meth Lab where Heisenberg was born was poetic.

Poetic - just the word I was thinking of on the way home from work today, and I think it's true.

clairefontaine

2ndcoming wrote: »

This reminds me of David Chase's reaction to the Sopranos ending. There was a backlash from some who felt Tony should have been killed on screen and spelled out. He could never get it, because you were supposed to root for Tony all along. I imagine Vince G feels much the same way about Walt. He was always on borrowed time, he had terminal lung cancer. That's not exactly a nice way for a non-smoker's life to be about to end at 52, but I can't believe anyone who watched (and got) Walt's journey from the Pilot to Ozymandias to bleeding out on the floor of a meth lab wanted to see him and his family suffer more?!

The only times I rooted for Walt were when he was fighting with people worse than he was.

Walt became a monster. I don't think the Sopranos comparisons are germane here. Totally different endings, one indeterminate and the other opted for closure.

His family did not deserve to suffer, but the consequences for Walts actions were minimised as much as possible, so that The outcomes of Walts selfishness was to fully realised. The writers protected both Walt fans and Walt opponents from a fully realised ending. For a show that talks about balls a lot, the ending sure was pussy.

bcbravo

Mousewar wrote: »

This is the scene I was talking about. Like the chessboard in Ozymandias it just doesn't seem random. Why did they go to this shot during the shootout.

And, again, the number 10 gets shot an instant after this pic.

As this episode is called Felina, I assumed that the ricochet off of the "10" was symbolic for using up his 9-lives.

Grimebox

bcbravo wrote: »

As this episode is called Felina, I assumed that the ricochet off of the "10" was symbolic for using up his 9-lives.

After Vince admitted that the watch was placed on the phone for continuity reasons, I don't believe half of these so-called symbols.

Anachrony

Ilik Urgee wrote: »

Would like to have seen Skyler and Marie done over too, they just got away too lightly from it all imo.

Marie lost her husband (so did Skyler, but Marie still loved and depended on hers). Skyler's coordinates are unlikely to fully resolve all her legal problems, and she gets to live as a penniless pariah for the rest of her life. I don't know what you think these women deserve exactly, but as annoying as they were, I don't think they did enough to deserve having the knife twisted one last time.

AnonoBoy

Big Game wrote: »

It's not a theory that it was all a dream.

Yeah I got that. It was easier to say they were putting that forward as a theory. Also it got more people to click the link! :pac:

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

FloatingVoter

Anachrony wrote: »

Marie lost her husband (so did Skyler, but Marie still loved and depended on hers). Skyler's coordinates are unlikely to fully resolve all her legal problems, and she gets to live as a penniless pariah for the rest of her life. I don't know what you think these women deserve exactly, but as annoying as they were, I don't think they did enough to deserve having the knife twisted one last time.

Skyler's going to be coming into 10 million reasons to be happy. She can do a little time if needs be. Marie has lost a mineral loving man - she'll find another rock to lean on.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Phazer

Shane St. wrote: »

I thought it was pretty perfect

Thats cool man, a lot of people liked it so I'd say I'm in the minority. I just feel an original score or possibly no music at all (As it was quite musically minimal this week) would have worked a lot better

krudler

Walt giving the nod and the lasers appearing on the Schwarz couple was a total holy crap moment. the pacing, the shot, the music, all brilliant.

"Elliot...if we're going to go that way..you're going to need a bigger knife"

Walt a badass to the end

krudler

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Then wreck his head decorating everything purple