Season 5, Episode 16: Felina

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Son0vagun

krudler wrote: »

"Elliot...if we're going to go that way..you're going to need a bigger knife"

Walt a badass to the end

I though he sounded like Mike when he said that.

tommy2bad

I thought Cranson played it with just the right amount of resignation. At the end Walt was resigned to dieing but not to the fact that he had lost everything. Going back was Walt trying to salvage something from the whole mess but as the show went on we saw him stop pretending it was all about his family and admit he did it because he liked doing it.
By the end he didn't care about Walts reputation or what anyone thought of him, he was satisfied to die knowing that he had at least found something he was good at and enjoyed doing.

G1032

You know one thing that just occurred to me. If it's been mentioned before I apologise.
Walt left the money for Walt junior alone iirc. He never told Elliott and Gretchen to leave any of it for Holly. Bit strange that?

Sabre0001

G1032 wrote: »

You know one thing that just occurred to me. If it's been mentioned before I apologise.
Walt left the money for Walt junior alone iirc. He never told Elliott and Gretchen to leave any of it for Holly. Bit strange that?

I presume it's because he turns 18 first and Walt knows that he's a good enough kid that he'll make things better for the family as a whole.

G1032

Sabre0001 wrote: »

I presume it's because he turns 18 first and Walt knows that he's a good enough kid that he'll make things better for the family as a whole.

I suppose but I just figured he could have left a little nest egg for her too. She'll be 18 one day too!!

tommy2bad

G1032 wrote: »

You know one thing that just occurred to me. If it's been mentioned before I apologise.
Walt left the money for Walt junior alone iirc. He never told Elliott and Gretchen to leave any of it for Holly. Bit strange that?

I'm supposing he trusted Walt Jr.'s sense to do the right thing. I think the seen where he watches 'Flynn' coming home is where he realizes that Flynn is now the man of the 'house'.
Also less suspicious if the money goes to the 'handicapped' son of the criminal meth king and more believable as a PR move by grey matter.

Jimmy Iovine

I can't wait to start watching it again. I'll give it a few months, until I have more time, but I'm really excited to go back to the beginning. The transformation is one of the most dramatic and insightful ever seen.

Bryan Cranston deserves a lifetime Emmy, Oscar and Grammy for his performance. It doesn't matter what award. Give them all to him.

IvaBigWun

krudler wrote: »

"Elliot...if we're going to go that way..you're going to need a bigger knife"

Walt a badass to the end

Walt is a weak, dying man and there was two of them. Yet they followed him to the car?

Jimmy Iovine

IvaBigWun wrote: »

Walt is a weak, dying man and there was two of them. Yet they followed him to the car?

They had no idea what he was capable of. He was one of the most wanted men in America and a drug kingpin. Of course they would follow him.

Torqay

krudler wrote: »

Walt giving the nod and the lasers appearing on the Schwarz couple was a total holy crap moment. the pacing, the shot, the music, all brilliant.

"Elliot...if we're going to go that way..you're going to need a bigger knife"

Walt a badass to the end

All through the series he was Walter White (a self-pitying, petulant and manipulative jerk really) or the evil and repulsive Heisenberg. And now the show ends with him being the "badass" superhero? Great way to ruin it... I hope the "alternative ending" will do Breaking Bad justice, it deserves better.

rubadub

Sabre0001 wrote: »

I presume it's because he turns 18 first and Walt knows that he's a good enough kid that he'll make things better for the family as a whole.

Yes, if you watch it again he says he want the money to go to his children. Then says about it going to junior for his college and for the family.

Tombo2001

2ndcoming wrote: »

I can't get these posts insinuating Walt somehow won.

The only winning outcome for him would have been dying on a bed in a cancer ward, surrounded by his loving family, who would be left a successful chain of car washes to run. His loving in-laws would be none the wiser and all his family would be safe from danger.

What he got was a hollow victory that only righted some of the wrongs that he himself had caused. His son hated him, his daughter would never remember him and would probably grow up to hate her infamous father and his brother-in-law died because of him.

He wasn't truly redeemed, he died on the floor of a meth lab as police closed in. It was a sad end, but he knew himself, he got what he deserved. He was playing the Heisenberg game right up to the moment Jack put a bullet in Hank's head. The man we see in Granite State and Felina is no longer playing that game, he is a broken man who realises he f**ked everything up, but is still enough of a genius to be able to do some good with his last moments.

That's just not true, I cant agree with that. He was deeply unhappy with his life when all he had was Skyler, Walt Jr and Holly.

Big Game

G1032 wrote: »

I suppose but I just figured he could have left a little nest egg for her too. She'll be 18 one day too!!

Yeah but the idea of having 2 hitmen stalking Gretchen and Elliot till Holly turns 18 isn't really gonna work tho....

Tombo2001

Rjd2 wrote: »

she ordered the death of numerous people in the show,(Declan's crew,the prisoners, Walter) and wanted Skylar dead as well.

She was an absolute monster, can't understand why anyone would have any sympathy for her really.

But you would say the exact same thing about Walt if you knew nothing about his family backstory, cancer etc. And we don't know this about Lydia.

Riddle101

G1032 wrote: »

You know one thing that just occurred to me. If it's been mentioned before I apologise.
Walt left the money for Walt junior alone iirc. He never told Elliott and Gretchen to leave any of it for Holly. Bit strange that?

G1032 wrote: »

I suppose but I just figured he could have left a little nest egg for her too. She'll be 18 one day too!!

It has to be Walt Junior who gets the money. It's too complicated to put some away for Holly when she comes of age. Walt Junior will look out for her.

IvaBigWun wrote: »

Walt is a weak, dying man and there was two of them. Yet they followed him to the car?

Grechen and Elliott were too scared to do anything because they did not know about Walt's health or his situation. He was a criminal mastermind/kingpin who had a bad reputation for killing people. If a known kingpin comes to your door and tells you to do something, are you really going to be brave enough to risk your life. Keeping in mind, you do not know the guy is sick, or what he could do. He could still have influence and power, and people on his payroll to do his bidding. I don't think anyone would want to risk it.

Wacker The Attacker

jcsoulinger wrote: »

The depths people will go to make something out of nothing makes me feel sad.

True. Even the most tenuous links are being beaten to death

Days 298

IvaBigWun wrote: »

Walt is a weak, dying man and there was two of them. Yet they followed him to the car?

He became Heisenberg as a weak dying man and evaded the cops. Those two must have known he is a genius seeing as he helped make their fortune.

Wacker The Attacker

Tombo2001 wrote: »

AnonoBoy wrote: »

The New Yorker puts forward the theory that it was a dream and Walt died in the car before finding the keys.

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/culture/2013/09/breaking-bad-finale-reviewed.html [/QUOTE]


Having read it, yes I would agree with her.

I think there is too much redemption for Walt in this episode. Ultimately it was too much of a happy ending. I dont think he, as a character, deserved to go out in a blaze of glory. The thought process behind the episode seems to be "what would Heisenberg have wanted?".

If the final shot had been Walt lying frozen in the car, and the whole episode was a dream, that would have been much more powerful in my humble opinion.

Plus, in a series where nobody had a damn clue what was going to happen in the next episode, the final was fairly predictable.

So I've revised my view on mature reflection.

Could she not have come up with something better. This is a rewrite of a dallas episode

Not G.R

FloatingVoter wrote: »

Skyler's going to be coming into 10 million reasons to be happy. She can do a little time if needs be. Marie has lost a mineral loving man - she'll find another rock to lean on.

They're minrals for Christ sake!

:pac:

tommy2bad

I also think the fear shown by the Schwartzs shows how far from suburban normality Walts life had gone. He saw Hank brag about how exciting being a DEA agent was and being somewhat agnstie (is that a word? it is now!) walt wanted some of that excitement for himself. He felt he missed out on it by leaving Grey Matter and at the end seeing the fear he could generate in people he held in a mix of envy and resentment must have been motive to use them as bag men for the money.
A sort of if the folks could see me now moment. He did swagger a bit when intimidating them.

Vaxxine

Skyler never even said Happy Birthday to Walt when he went to see her in her apartment, after he said to tell the cops he came back because he wanted bacon and eggs for his birthday. I felt so sad at that part

Custardpi

Yeah, she could have at least thrown a few rashers in the pan!

Nerdlingr

2ndcoming wrote: »

I can't get these posts insinuating Walt somehow won.

The only winning outcome for him would have been dying on a bed in a cancer ward, surrounded by his loving family, who would be left a successful chain of car washes to run. His loving in-laws would be none the wiser and all his family would be safe from danger.

What he got was a hollow victory that only righted some of the wrongs that he himself had caused. His son hated him, his daughter would never remember him and would probably grow up to hate her infamous father and his brother-in-law died because of him.

He wasn't truly redeemed, he died on the floor of a meth lab as police closed in. It was a sad end, but he knew himself, he got what he deserved. He was playing the Heisenberg game right up to the moment Jack put a bullet in Hank's head. The man we see in Granite State and Felina is no longer playing that game, he is a broken man who realises he f**ked everything up, but is still enough of a genius to be able to do some good with his last moments.

100% per cent agree with this.

April O Neill

One of the episode highlights for me: Uncle Jack's FABULOUS purple V-neck jumper. Work it, guuuurrrrlll! *snaps fingers*

Tombo2001

The more I think about it, the more I feel that this is the episode where Breaking Bad 'jumps the shark'..

A spinning machine gun that kills all the baddies but leaves Walt and Jesse alive.....come on......

willmunny1990

2ndcoming wrote: »

I can't get these posts insinuating Walt somehow won.

The only winning outcome for him would have been dying on a bed in a cancer ward, surrounded by his loving family, who would be left a successful chain of car washes to run. His loving in-laws would be none the wiser and all his family would be safe from danger.

What he got was a hollow victory that only righted some of the wrongs that he himself had caused. His son hated him, his daughter would never remember him and would probably grow up to hate her infamous father and his brother-in-law died because of him.

He wasn't truly redeemed, he died on the floor of a meth lab as police closed in. It was a sad end, but he knew himself, he got what he deserved. He was playing the Heisenberg game right up to the moment Jack put a bullet in Hank's head. The man we see in Granite State and Felina is no longer playing that game, he is a broken man who realises he f**ked everything up, but is still enough of a genius to be able to do some good with his last moments.

Not so sure about this.

As Walt said himself, he did what he did for himself, not his family, so I don't think dying in bed surrounded by his family would of been all to satisfying for him. The car washes were only businesses he needed to launder his money, deep down i don't think he thought much about his familys future.

As ****ed up as things got after he decided to go into the meth business I still think he would do it all again. Walt was a shell of a man before he started cooking, over qualified in a dead end job, people walked all over him and his son looked up to his uncle more than him. He only ever felt alive or worth anything when he was cooking.

He lied and tried to convince himself what he was doing was for his family but it wasn't, not at all. In the end I thought he was quite content, he put right some of the wrongs he caused and ended up dying in the place he loved the most which was the lab.

murphzor

Tombo2001 wrote: »

The more I think about it, the more I feel that this is the episode where Breaking Bad 'jumps the shark'..

A spinning machine gun that kills all the baddies but leaves Walt and Jesse alive.....come on......

They were on the ground.

And it did kill Walt.

clairefontaine

willmunny1990 wrote: »

Not so sure about this.

As Walt said himself, he did what he did for himself, not his family, so I don't think dying in bed surrounded by his family would of been all to satisfying for him. The car washes were only businesses he needed to launder his money, deep down i don't think he thought much about his familys future.

As ****ed up as things got after he decided to go into the meth business I still think he would do it all again. Walt was a shell of a man before he started cooking, over qualified in a dead end job, people walked all over him and his son looked up to his uncle more than him. He only ever felt alive or worth anything when he was cooking.

He lied and tried to convince himself what he was doing was for his family but it wasn't, not at all. In the end I thought he was quite content, he put right some of the wrongs he caused and ended up dying in the place he loved the most which was the lab.

WW was an emasculated milquetoast toast character before his death sentence. His wife ruled the roost, Hank was a patronising noob, and he had a low end career for his considerable talents.

"I sing the song of myself" celebrates Walt Whitman, no coincidence Americas premiere poet Laurete turns up in this series. The hardest thing to do in this world is be yourself, and Walt succeeds, that's why he has such a fan base, even if he is a monster, he has achieved authenticity, but at a great cost to others and to what he leaves behind.

Who are you? Who are we? Americas national obsession with identity is here again. And that's what makes WW a hero, even if he is the most evil character on television.

Tombo2001

murphzor wrote: »

They were on the ground.

And it did kill Walt.

No, my recollection is they were on the pool table where the keys were.

And we don't know that it killed Walt.

Anyway.

April O Neill

Tombo2001 wrote: »

A spinning machine gun that kills all the baddies but leaves Walt and Jesse alive.....come on......

The spinning machine was pretty terrible, indeed.

bluemachaveli

Tombo2001 wrote: »

No, my recollection is they were on the pool table where the keys were.

And we don't know that it killed Walt.

Anyway.

Best watch it again. They were definitely on the ground.

2ndcoming

willmunny1990 wrote: »

Not so sure about this.

As Walt said himself, he did what he did for himself, not his family, so I don't think dying in bed surrounded by his family would of been all to satisfying for him. The car washes were only businesses he needed to launder his money, deep down i don't think he thought much about his familys future.

As ****ed up as things got after he decided to go into the meth business I still think he would do it all again. Walt was a shell of a man before he started cooking, over qualified in a dead end job, people walked all over him and his son looked up to his uncle more than him. He only ever felt alive or worth anything when he was cooking.

He lied and tried to convince himself what he was doing was for his family but it wasn't, not at all. In the end I thought he was quite content, he put right some of the wrongs he caused and ended up dying in the place he loved the most which was the lab.

I agree with most of this, but I think all of this applies right up until the death of Hank. It was only after this that he realised the game was up. The game that he had played and loved, the power he got to feel from it, he would have traded all of it for Hank's life (and he tried to).

If not immediately then certainly after his last meet with Saul in the vacuum store and the 3 or 4 months in isolation brought it all home to him how much he had f**ked up, and in Felina he finally had the courage to admit to Skyler he did it for himself, and also the cowardly man who had done everything up to that point in the name of self-preservation ultimately sacrificed himself to avenge Hank, and, although it hadn't been his original intention, save Jesse.

Jimmy Iovine

Tombo2001 wrote: »

No, my recollection is they were on the pool table where the keys were.

And we don't know that it killed Walt.

Anyway.

Did you watch the episode or just pluck a few fanciful fallacies from thin air?

Walt tackled Jesse to the ground, pressed the button and the gun started going off. Everyone else was killed because they were standing. Everyone bar Todd.

Also, I'm pretty sure Walt died from the wound. It would have been far too convenient for the cancer to strike at that precise moment. Cancer doesn't exactly work like that and there's nothing else he could have died from.

It thought they spelt it out very clearly. Obviously not.

clairefontaine

Jimmy Iovine wrote: »

Did you watch the episode or just pluck a few fanciful fallacies from thin air?

Walt tackled Jesse to the ground, pressed the button and the gun started going off. Everyone else was killed because they were standing. Everyone bar Todd.

Also, I'm pretty sure Walt died from the wound. It would have been far too convenient for the cancer to strike at that precise moment. Cancer doesn't exactly work like that and there's nothing else he could have died from.

It thought they spelt it out very clearly. Obviously not.

I'm sure he will die, but from what I saw it was a stomach wound and that can take a long time to bleed out. It wold be entirely plausible he could survive that.

Jimmy Iovine

clairefontaine wrote: »

I'm sure he will die, but from what I saw it was a stomach wound and that can take a long time to bleed out. It wold be entirely plausible he could survive that.

Where is the ambiguity in this scene?

It's clear as day that he dies. I never bother reading into scenes much (mainly cause I'm terrible at it), but I think the inclusion of the blood stain on the metal just as he falls is the main indication that he dies from the gun shot wound.

I can't really believe I'm arguing this.

Dave!

While it may be possible that he survives a gutshot (I'm sure the cancer would drastically decrease his chances though), it's quite clear that the director is telling us that Walt died.

Jimmy Macnulty

Jimmy Iovine wrote: »

Where is the ambiguity in this scene?

It's clear as day that he dies. I never bother reading into scenes much (mainly cause I'm terrible at it), but I think the inclusion of the blood stain on the metal just as he falls is the main indication that he dies from the gun shot wound.

I can't really believe I'm arguing this.

Am i reading too much into that scene thinking the blood on the tank looks like a "W"!!? Probably.....

Personally I thought it was a very good ending. Will be a long time before we see the likes of BB again.

ceadaoin.

clairefontaine wrote: »

I'm sure he will die, but from what I saw it was a stomach wound and that can take a long time to bleed out. It wold be entirely plausible he could survive that.

I think it's supposed to be his liver that got hit. Id say that will kill you pretty fast especially if you're already in a weakened state like he was

Ardent

Tombo2001 wrote: »

The more I think about it, the more I feel that this is the episode where Breaking Bad 'jumps the shark'..

LOL, was thinking the same and was about to post the exact same phrase.

doozer16

Well worth a read, points out some pretty cool stuff

http://www.buzzfeed.com/ryanhatesthis/18-fun-easter-eggs-in-the-breaking-bad-series-finale

John Dodger

Zyzz wrote: »

Walter White is dead though :pac:

And Better Call Saul is a prequel though 😀

John Dodger

clairefontaine wrote: »

This scene was problematic for me. I knew as soon as WW told the Nazis about the money, they were going to kill Hank and take the money anyway. I was surprised WW told them where it was. Even Hank knew they decided ten minutes ago to kill Hank.

However, the reason I think WW would be capable of killing Hank of he had to is because he poisoned a ten year old and he menacingly threatened Skylers life over the phone and kidnapped the baby He does what needs to be done, according to his own set of rules.

You really don't get BB, do you?

Walt didn't poison a 10 year old and he never threatened Skylers life.

Mickeroo

Tombo2001 wrote: »

The more I think about it, the more I feel that this is the episode where Breaking Bad 'jumps the shark'..

A spinning machine gun that kills all the baddies but leaves Walt and Jesse alive.....come on......

Wasn't as daft as Fring walking out of the room with half his head blown off at the end of season 4. Both instances of damn good TV regardless imo.

John Dodger

doozer16 wrote: »

Expectations too high? Wasn't everyones expectations for it to be good?

I didn't expect it to be great, I'm a big fan and Ozymandias was one of the best hours of TV I've witnessed but the ending for me was poor, the shoot out was RIDICULOUS, the fact Lydia meets Todd at same time same seat - RIDICULOUS, to name but a few.
The main plot of this show is great but the sub plots are very poor and never backed up sufficiently.
For it to be uttered in the same breath as the Sopranos is criminal.


There was also a glaring mistake 2 episodes ago where Todd tells L that the Meth is 92% then ten minutes later he's telling someone else that it's 96% (Maybe there's a reason for that, I don't know)

Not a mistake. Two different cooks, months apart. You think Jessie only did one cook in 4 months?

John Dodger

doozer16 wrote: »

Really? I just heard there was a spin off nothing more.
Makes sense, I presume it will be 30 min sitcom style? Can't see it working although I do love the character/actor.

It's mentioned like a 100 times on this thread alone.

John Dodger

P.Walnuts wrote: »

Mike making a cameo would be great, even a really brief one.

He could conceivably have a big part in the show, although I suppose it depends how much the producers want to connect it to BB.

Mike was Sauls PI so it would be very plausible for him to be in it, especially as he was such a well liked character.

John Dodger

dark crystal wrote: »

Gaaargh! This word predictable!

In a game of chess, there's only so many moves you can make to get to checkmate.
So many theories for the finale have been floating about, it's inevitable the ending would be one or more of them. Honestly, how many more twists and turns could this series realistically take?

I guess you can never please everyone, but my hat goes off to Vince Gilligan for making an outstanding piece of television and for me personally, I couldn't imagine a more fitting end for the characters he created.

Totally agree. It's amazing how many posters on here think they are better writers than Vince!

John Dodger

IvaBigWun wrote: »

I need to watch it again without all those ad breaks but I think it needed a much darker ending.

My thoughts on first viewing:

There was no need for the Grey Matter duo, giving them the money felt forced.

Skyler and the kids should have been murdered by the Nazis, Walt is left with nothing to lose and all to avenge.

Ridiculous A Team gun aside (Walt seems to be the fastest learner of how an M60 gun works ever) it was the only option the writers had left themselves for killing the Nazis. So as silly as it is lets say the bad guys go out that way and we still have Walt and Jesse at the end, Jesse refuses to kill Mr White because he realises that was part of his problem, taking orders from Heisenberg.

Walt tells Jesse where his money is stashed, Jesse speeds off into the sunset and Walt dies in the lab, a completely broken man because his family were killed by Jack & Co.



Vince Giligan: "Its like Walt says 'everybody dies in this movie"

well too many people lived for my liking Vince. It almost feels like the AMC executives got involved with the ending, it will leak out eventually if they did.

Over a third of IMDB users have awarded this episode a one out of ten http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2301455/ratings?ref_=tt_ov_rt

Thats a bit harsh, it was (on first viewing) a 5, which isnt good enough for a 10/10 show

Where in the episode does Walt tells Jesse where his money is stashed?

Kinda hard to do considering Walt killed Jack before he told him where the money was.

IMDB rating is 9.9. That says it all.

John Dodger

m0ynihan wrote: »

Does anyone else remember Brock or is it just me? Shouldn't we have got some idea of what happened to him after Andrea was killed? The ending was solid enough though, but there were a few poor enough parts imo, that ridiculous gun for example (I know it was necessary but still). I'd give it a seven out of ten, probably the poorest of this half of the series though. That song at the end was absolutely brutal!

Brock was a minor character. What was there to wrap up? Orphaned, he would have been taken into care or taken in by his grandmother. Part of what I liked about BB was that it was not always necessary to spell everything out because Vince knew the audience was clever enough to work things out (like Walts call to Skyler)