Unhelpful 'gendering' of social issues

donfers

The good news, is that in a way, the pandering of the spineless media agents to feminist propoganda basically lets the likes of Mullaly to rant away to her heart's content without fear of censorship, and as these kind of radical views are being heard more and more because the media are too spineless to stand up to it, then more and more people are distancing themselves from feminism as they see it for the men-hating hypocritical self-interested pity-party it is - we should really be happy that the likes of Una are exposing Western priviliged feminism for the joke it really is.

"Can you believe it - some guy oppressed me with his gaze for more than 1.5 seconds today" - yeah, carry on bleating about that while women are getting stoned to death or can't meet in public in Saudi Arabia

pathetic charlatans

cantdecide

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

If is it is in th Irish Times and the article is claiming to speak for you then I would say Yes, you should at least have an opinion on it.

The IT has endorsed it by publishing it. Cue stock 'what if the genders were reversed' response.

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Just to remind people what was actually written in the article

Men, don’t rape
Instructing women to be careful gets men off the hook. The potential perpetrators of attacks are seldom asked to be as conscientious, apart from occasional innovations such as the Don’t Be That Guy campaign. So, women, be careful? How about men, don’t rape? Men, don’t murder your exes or partners. Men, don’t beat up your wives or girlfriends. Men, don’t assault someone you’ve just met that night. Men, don’t shout at women across the road just because you can. Men, stop hanging your threat of rape over dark streets.

As a male who is statistically far more likely to die violently than a woman, who is championing my cause? At night, I don't walk down dark alleys and there are times I will cross the street if I sense a potential threat. There are pubs and clubs I avoid out of fear of being bottled or beaten up but if men are to blame for my caution, what should I do as a man? Who can I blame? Myself? Is there a course or something I can sign up for so I don't beat, maim or kill myself?

Ben Shekelberg

donfers wrote: »

The good news, is that in a way, the pandering of the spineless media agents to feminist propoganda basically lets the likes of Mullaly to rant away to her heart's content without fear of censorship, and as these kind of radical views are being heard more and more because the media are too spineless to stand up to it, then more and more people are distancing themselves from feminism as they see it for the men-hating hypocritical self-interested pity-party it is - we should really be happy that the likes of Una are exposing Western priviliged feminism for the joke it really is.

"Can you believe it - some guy oppressed me with his gaze for more than 1.5 seconds today" - yeah, carry on bleating about that while women are getting stoned to death or can't meet in public in Saudi Arabia

pathetic charlatans

I don't know man. For one thing she taking a job that could be given to a real journalist, not a crank, and secondly these type of ramblings should be confined to Tumbler and Facebook, not national newspapers.

clairefontaine

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

If is it is in the Irish Times and the article is claiming to speak for you then I would say Yes, you should at least have an opinion on it.

Just to remind people what was actually written in the article

Men, don’t rape
Instructing women to be careful gets men off the hook. The potential perpetrators of attacks are seldom asked to be as conscientious, apart from occasional innovations such as the Don’t Be That Guy campaign. So, women, be careful? How about men, don’t rape? Men, don’t murder your exes or partners. Men, don’t beat up your wives or girlfriends. Men, don’t assault someone you’ve just met that night. Men, don’t shout at women across the road just because you can. Men, stop hanging your threat of rape over dark streets.

Are you kidding me? People say things all the time that I don't agree with. I can't argue with every single one of them in this world, over several time zones and a two hemispheres. It's not reasonable to think because someone does. to speak out against an opinion that they are endorsing it.

As for your quote above, she's encouraging parents to be irresponsible IMO. Seriously, what are you supposed to tell your daughters? Nothing? Ridiculous.

This is what happens when all the talent emigrates. You're left with mediocrity and sub mediocrity. Will the IT ever stop being a wannabe Guardian?

Sir Humphrey Appleby

Ben Shekelberg wrote: »

Do you have sons? Do you want them to grow up being told they're the problem with society, that its up to them to stop rape?

I have two sons, and since I have never suffered this discrimination and anti-man hatred you describe I don't expect either of them will either.
Strange thing is though, one of my children was sexually assaulted and guess what, the person who carried out the assault was male.

Pawwed Rig

clairefontaine wrote: »

Are you kidding me? People say things all the time that I don't agree with.

Yes but they do not claim to talk for you. Zero women's orgs have criticised this article or even questioned the statistics in it.

clairefontaine wrote: »

As for your quote above, she's encouraging parents to be irresponsible IMO. Seriously, what are you supposed to tell your daughters? Nothing? Ridiculous.

No she isn't. She never mentions parents. The main point of her article is that you are not supposed to tell your daughter anything as your son is to blame.

The full article is here
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/telling-women-to-be-careful-gets-men-off-the-hook-1.1536337

kunst nugget

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

If is it is in the Irish Times and the article is claiming to speak for you then I would say Yes, you should at least have an opinion on it.

Just to remind people what was actually written in the article

Men, don’t rape
Instructing women to be careful gets men off the hook. The potential perpetrators of attacks are seldom asked to be as conscientious, apart from occasional innovations such as the Don’t Be That Guy campaign. So, women, be careful? How about men, don’t rape? Men, don’t murder your exes or partners. Men, don’t beat up your wives or girlfriends. Men, don’t assault someone you’ve just met that night. Men, don’t shout at women across the road just because you can. Men, stop hanging your threat of rape over dark streets.

I've read the original article. It's absolute trash and I expressed my opinion on The Irish Times website and their facebook page at the time about why I found it offensive. And out of curiosity I even checked twitter reaction to it. Let's be honest, it was pretty muted because no one gave a sh¡t. Since it started its campaign of clickbait articles (and that is all that article is pure and simple) over the last while, the reputation of the Irish Times has fallen through the floor. I don't particularly see a lack of comment on it as an endorsement of the article because if I reread the article with a cooler head now it's obvious to me that most people reading it would recognise it as a piece of garbage. Una Mullally writes sh¡tty articles but then so does John Waters. C'est la vie.

cantdecide

Bah Feckin Humbug! wrote: »

Strange thing is though, one of my children was sexually assaulted

Sorry to hear that.

clairefontaine

Bah Feckin Humbug! wrote: »

I have two sons, and since I have never suffered this discrimination and anti-man hatred you describe I don't expect either of them will either.
Strange thing is though, one of my children was sexually assaulted and guess what, the person who carried out the assault was male.

See I doubt in Ireland you will ever see the consequences of this ideology manifest in any practical real form. You will never see I hope, for example, six year old boys suspended from school for sexual harassment charges, because of bus stolen kiss in the playground. Whereas in the US you see some of the real manifestations of this prissy middle class puritanical ideology.

So to me, while this is terrible journalism, I can't really see it taking hold in many real way in Ireland. It's just to fill space and get people reading.

Ben Shekelberg

Bah Feckin Humbug! wrote: »

I have two sons, and since I have never suffered this discrimination and anti-man hatred you describe I don't expect either of them will either.
Strange thing is though, one of my children was sexually assaulted and guess what, the person who carried out the assault was male.

You never had to deal with it but your boys will grow up with a generation of women who view them as rapists simply for being male.

clairefontaine

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Yes but they do not claim to talk for you. Zero women's orgs have criticised this article or even questioned the statistics in it.



No she isn't. She never mentions parents. The main point of her article is that you are not supposed to tell your daughter anything as your son is to blame.

The full article is here
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/telling-women-to-be-careful-gets-men-off-the-hook-1.1536337

I know she doesn't explicitly mention parents, but obviously if you don't talk to daughters then that is irresponsible. She's encouraging irresponsibility but pinning it all on men.

Pawwed Rig

Bah Feckin Humbug! wrote: »

I have two sons, and since I have never suffered this discrimination and anti-man hatred you describe I don't expect either of them will either.

You sons are statisically going to perform more poorly than girls in school. Your sons have more chance of dying a violent death.
You sons have a very low chance of keeping custody of their children should their marriage break up.
If one of your sons as a 15 year old has sex with his 15 year old girlfriend he is a rapist, she is not.

Anyway this issue in more suited to our sexism thread.

cantdecide

clairefontaine wrote: »

So to me, while this is terrible journalism, I can't really see it taking hold in many real way in Ireland. It's just to fill space and get people reading.

I would prefer to read an ad for a random tile centre or a deeply racist article that would actually draw the ire it deserved. Radical feminist rhetoric is often offensive to men and the fact that it slips through the net more and more is very worrying. This is a very very tiny defeat for men, IMO.

Sir Humphrey Appleby

Ben Shekelberg wrote: »

You never had to deal with it but your boys will grow up with a generation of women who view them as rapists simply for being male.

Trite rubbish and paranoid hyperbole.

Sir Humphrey Appleby

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

If one of your sons as a 15 year old has sex with his 15 year old girlfriend he is a rapist, she is not.

That is actually not true.

py2006

Bah Feckin Humbug! wrote: »

That is actually not true.

Technically he can be found guilty of rape if her parents find out and take him to court. I believe there was a case discussed on here before relating to this whole area.

Edit: http://www.b4udecide.ie/the_facts/age_of_consent.html

Sir Humphrey Appleby

py2006 wrote: »

Technically he can be found guilty of rape if her parents find out and take him to court. I believe there was a case discussed on here before relating to this whole area.

Source for that applying to 15 year olds in Ireland?

littleblackDRS

Bah Feckin Humbug! wrote: »

Source for that applying to 15 year olds in Ireland?

http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/acts/2006/a1506.pdf

py2006

Bah Feckin Humbug! wrote: »

Source for that applying to 15 year olds in Ireland?

I can't find the exact article and case that was discussed but I did find this:

A girl aged under 17 years who has sexual intercourse may not be convicted of an offence on that ground alone.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/criminal_law/criminal_offences/law_on_sex_offences_in_ireland.html#l1f4da


CRIMINAL LAW (SEXUAL OFFENCES) ACT 2006:

A female child under the age of 17 years shall not be guilty of
an offence under this Act by reason only of her engaging in an act
of sexual intercourse.

http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/acts/2006/a1506.pdf

iptba

py2006 wrote: »

Technically he can be found guilty of rape if her parents find out and take him to court. I believe there was a case discussed on here before relating to this whole area.

Edit: http://www.b4udecide.ie/the_facts/age_of_consent.html

I started a thread on one such case here:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=65102195

This is based on a law made in the 2000s.

I wouldn't depend on feminists to campaign against such laws.

Pawwed Rig

This the one?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=82242126&postcount=107

py2006

iptba wrote: »

I wouldn't depend on feminists to campaign against such laws.

Their response is, 'well it was men that made that law so...' and that is their excuse for ignoring this particular inequality.

clairefontaine

py2006 wrote: »

Their response is, 'well it was men that made that law so...' and that is their excuse for ignoring this particular inequality.

Why is it THEIR responsibility?

Complaint to your legislators.

kunst nugget

kunst nugget wrote: »

Or could it be that the silence means that none of them are bothered paying any attention to her?

Yet as a straight while male if I don't instantly shout down someone for saying anything remotely sexist/misogynistic/homophobic/racist/xenophobic I'm part of the problem right?

iptba

clairefontaine wrote: »

Why is it THEIR responsibility?

We are told the movement in charge of fighting for gender equality is feminism.

clairefontaine

iptba wrote: »

We are told the movement in charge of fighting for gender equality is feminism.

What?

That doesn't stop you from writing to your legislators. You are a citizen, you have rights and you have responsibilities.

No point complaining unless it's followed by action.

py2006

clairefontaine wrote: »

Why is it THEIR responsibility?

Who said it was?

Their silence on inequalities that doesn't affect women directly (in a negative way that is) is one of the reasons a lot of people have a very negative view on feminism.

iptba

clairefontaine wrote: »

What?

That doesn't stop you from writing to your legislators. You are a citizen, you have rights and you have responsibilities.

No point complaining unless it's followed by action.

One can complain in various ways. One can complain about the general situation which leads to specific cases: feminism and feminists do not fight well for equality if it is males who are losing out and hence the need for men's rights activists/movement and the like, which feminists will often actively mock/say there's no need for and so indirectly get in the way of challenging such problems.

Feminists could also have created an environment that it wouldn't have been acceptable to hold females as responsible and hence the environment that such laws would be created. We see this with prison sentencing for example.

Ben Shekelberg

Bah Feckin Humbug! wrote: »

Trite rubbish and paranoid hyperbole.

Ha, so brainwashed you can't even see feminism for what it really is, men-hating rhetoric disguised as the 'fight for equality'.

I'm going to go out now and oppress women just by existing.

Pawwed Rig

Ben Shekelberg wrote: »

Ha, so brainwashed you can't even see feminism for what it really is, men-hating rhetoric disguised as the 'fight for equality'.

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