Unhelpful 'gendering' of social issues

clairefontaine

Wibbs wrote: »

It's certainly extremely difficult, however the notion that gender is an almost entirely social construct has been shown to be largely incorrect. It's far more complex than that and there is a pretty strong biological component.

These differences can be seen in the brain. Broadly speaking there are "female" and "male" brains with a continuum between those two points. One can even see this in conditions affecting the brain, where for example many more boys are on the autistic scale than girls.
A few links for perusal
http://cercor.oxfordjournals.org/content/11/6/552.full
http://www.ucd.ie/artspgs/langimp/genderbrain.pdf
This is an interesting one on a few levels(basically boys and girls are very different as children, but these differences diminish as they mature).
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/sax-sex/201012/unexpected-sex-differences-in-brain-development
http://www.jneurosci.org/content/32/7/2241.full.pdf *PDF document*

Certainly, but one could say that about most nations. It's seriously underreported across the board.

Even when you delve into it, we still have a very low infant mortality rate compared to other western nations and far lower than in the second and third world. Even if you doubled our rate, we'd be still be eight times better on the infant mortality score than say India. We're at nearly half the US rate for example and a couple of points above our neighbours in the UK. While there are clearly many areas where we can always improve, it makes little sense to me to fall into unnecessary self flagellation over it(all too common a response for us as a culture).

I'm not disputing your general thesis because I genuinely have no convictions on how different the male and female brains are.

However, your points on autism are debatable because there are huge questions on its assessment and diagnosis, especially in terms of gender bias.

They are also studies emerging now that what many women and girls got slapped with a borderline diagnosis eventually got changed to autism, because the symptoms present themselves differently, and also because of prejudicial gender biases in diagnosis.

I'm very doubtful about these studies about the brain because they have also showed that environment can change and rechange structures in the brain, so you are back to the nature vs nurture conundrum.

S.L.F

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

I have two sons, and since I have never suffered this discrimination and anti-man hatred you describe I don't expect either of them will either.
Strange thing is though, one of my children was sexually assaulted and guess what, the person who carried out the assault was male.

Sorry to hear that one of your children was assaulted.

If one of your sons was sexually assaulted by a woman what do you think the chances are that he'd be laughed at if he went to the Gardai?

It is more likely people would tell him he was lucky.

iptba

I wasn't sure what thread to post this in but this thread is talking about "gendering".

I saw this on Twitter earlier:

https://twitter.com/dfsdublin/status/440459782210605056

Women of @RTE_GUIDE @RTE @rtenews supporting us & #women #empowering #iwd2014 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfyAGHFjNnc

There is supposedly a week-long campaign for dfs this week

Description of DFS:

We promote the economic independence of women by providing workwear, a network of support and career development tools

Dublin · dressforsuccessdublin.org

There are quite a lot of these things which are just for helping women.

Henry9

iptba wrote: »

There are quite a lot of these things which are just for helping women.

I wouldn't begrudge them that, I'd say there's a lot of women who've been out of the workforce a long time who could do with a dig out in terms of clothes and confidence. Seems a good idea.

There's probably plenty of men in a similar boat, it would be good if some of them got together to do something similar.

iptba

Henry9 wrote: »

I wouldn't begrudge them that, I'd say there's a lot of women who've been out of the workforce a long time who could do with a dig out in terms of clothes and confidence. Seems a good idea.

There's probably plenty of men in a similar boat, it would be good if some of them got together to do something similar.

But why not take the position:

I'd say there's a lot of womenpeople who've been out of the workforce a long time who could do with a dig out in terms of clothes and confidence.

py2006

iptba wrote: »

I wasn't sure what thread to post this in but this thread is talking about "gendering".

I saw this on Twitter earlier:



There is supposedly a week-long campaign for dfs this week

Description of DFS:



There are quite a lot of these things which are just for helping women.

That kind of makes out that men know how to dress professionally and women don't. It is kind of patronising to women isn't it?

However, there are people out there who do need this sort of help, not sure why they are excluding such a vast percentage of these people.

LegacyUser

Saw this http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0305/600194-major-eu-report-reveals-extensive-abuse-of-women/
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-26444655
"Men need to be positively engaged in initiatives that confront how some men use violence against women."

this morning, disapponting but not at all surprising that one group that should have the funding to do a gender neutral europe wide report on violence as a whole doesn't bother to, I am a male victim of sexual abuse, I have close male friends who have been sexually and physically assaulted by women and men, I have close female friends who have been sexually and physically assaulted by men and women, I fail to see what good can come from such a biased report, it was published by the Eu agency for fundamental rights, if they don't follow this up with a report about overall violence or violence against men then it would surely raise the question, fundamental rights for who? I feel like I want to email them and ask directly but I don't even know what to say

constance tench

py2006 wrote: »

Interestingly enough, I once heard a woman speak on the subject and one comment she made struck a cord with me, "the mistake a lot of feminist make is the assumption they speak for all women".

Having said that, while a lot of feminists do not realise the irony of a lot of their statements, not all are the same. Some are more egalitarian.

...Interesting perspective in todays Indo:

Joanna Tuffy was interviewed by The National Women's Council as part of the preparation for its report 'A Parliment of All Talents:Building a Women Friendly Oireachtas'

During the interview I argued against some of the proposals of the National Women's Council. I have previously disagreed with them on gender quotas and 'women only' meetings. My discordant views are not referred to in the report. I wonder why?...It is also rather sexist to say we need a women-friendly Oireachtas. What we need is an Oireachtas that allows our elected male and female representatives to combine their legislative roles with their lives with their families and in their communities.

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/womenfriendly-oireachtas-would-make-it-harder-for-me-as-a-mother-30063405.html

Playboy

So Vicky Pyrce thinks women are hard done by in the criminal justice system! I'm starting to think people actually operate in totally different realities to the rest of us.

http://www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/fashion/vicky-pryce-women-are-dealt-with-more-harshly-in-court--just-look-at-nigella-lawson-9167764.html

<modsnip>
Please don't post full articles, the link is enough

iptba

If people want reform in sentencing e.g. fewer custodial sentences, that's a reasonable thing to want to do. But why should they only campaign for women?

Similarly, there are plenty of men in prison with mental health problems; why only talk about women?

And I've seen no evidence conditions are better for men than women in prison. Very often, they're worse.

Playboy

iptba wrote: »

If people want reform in sentencing e.g. fewer custodial sentences, that's a reasonable thing to want to do. But why should they only campaign for women?

Similarly, there are plenty of men in prison with mental health problems; why only talk about women?

And I've seen no evidence conditions are better for men than women in prison. Very often, they're worse.

Sentences are nearly always harsher and conditions usually much worse in male prisons. How can she with a straight face say that women have it worse and then go on to describe the holiday camp of a prison she was in?

ancapailldorcha

Playboy wrote: »

Sentences are nearly always harsher and conditions usually much worse in male prisons. How can she with a straight face say that women have it worse and then go on to describe the holiday camp of a prison she was in?

Unfortunately, people don't seem inclined to think critically anymore. For instance, I was in a newsagents' today and saw that both the Guardian and the Telegraph touting headlines claiming that high meat diets are as bad as smoking. How many people do you think will just blindly accept this as part of the "if it's in print, it must be true" philosophy.

S.L.F

xclkyt3421 wrote: »

this morning, disapponting but not at all surprising that one group that should have the funding to do a gender neutral europe wide report on violence as a whole doesn't bother to

The EU, UN and WHO are run by feminists.

Every time there is an election and someone implements a gender quota for women to be elected, it is feminists that get elected.

Feminists have become extremely powerful.

Here's an example of the sort of thing they discuss.

If you wish to see what a feminist government can do when they become too powerful you only need to look at Spain for that.

S.L.F

Just something on hiding the real statistics

Henry9

Playboy wrote: »

So Vicky Pyrce thinks women are hard done by in the criminal justice system! I'm starting to think people actually operate in totally different realities to the rest of us.

http://www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/fashion/vicky-pryce-women-are-dealt-with-more-harshly-in-court--just-look-at-nigella-lawson-9167764.html

<modsnip>
Please don't post full articles, the link is enough

Standard stuff.

Women shouldn't go to prison because:
They have children
They’ve been sexually, emotionally or physically abused.

That's just code for 'it's not their fault'.

I wonder whose fault it is....

Henry9

iptba wrote: »

But why not take the position:

It would probably change the dynamic of the place.
Maybe they're more comfortable in a female only environment.

It reads like a support group for women. I don't think there's any necessity to open membership of everything to both sexes.

As long as there's no obstruction to a group of lads to do the same, let them at it I say.
There's probably plenty out there already.

old hippy

Henry9 wrote: »

Standard stuff.

Women shouldn't go to prison because:
They have children
They’ve been sexually, emotionally or physically abused.

That's just code for 'it's not their fault'.

I wonder whose fault it is....

It's certainly not the fault of the victim if they've been abused.

newport2

old hippy wrote: »

It's certainly not the fault of the victim if they've been abused.

Who said it was?

The point was just made that some people use the fact that they were abused in the past as an excuse for current bad behaviour, including abuse of other people.

It's not their fault that they were abused in the past, but they are responsible (and hence at fault) for their current actions.

GalwayGuy2

It's certainly not the fault of the victim if they've been abused.

Of course.

But it doesn't disregard what the person (not 'the victim') does later in life.

Sure, there a large link between deviancy and some form of abuse, but it doesn't disregard personal choice.

iptba

Saw this on Twitter: another initiative just for females where I don't think there is an equivalent for males (?)*:

Women & Girls HIV/AIDS Day
March 10

http://womenshealth.gov/nwghaad/
National Women and Girls HIV/AIDS Awareness Day is a nationwide observance that sheds light on the disease's impact on women and girls.

*Nothing shows up with Google for "men and boys hiv day" anyway.

py2006

I think this is the right thread..

http://news.sky.com/story/1223670/beyonce-joins-stars-in-ban-bossy-campaign

A host of prominent women - including Beyonce and Victoria Beckham - have thrown their support behind a campaign against the word "bossy".

The Ban Bossy campaign, run with Girl Scouts of the USA and Leanin.org, is aimed at promoting leadership roles among young girls.

Actresses Jennifer Garner and Jane Lynch, as well as Condoleezza Rice, the former US Secretary of State have also added their voices to discourage the use of the word, which campaigners say stops girls from speaking out.

It adds that between primary school and secondary school, girls' self-esteem drops 3.5 times more than boys' and that by the age of 12 girls are much less interested in leading.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNOkWhkEiTc

ancapailldorcha

I'm actually lost for words. I suppose something constructive like tackling the underlying issues would be ridiculous.

iptba

Regarding "bossy", it could be pointed out that there are negative words that tend only to be used about men e.g. loser, creep, bastard, etc.

Zulu

iptba wrote: »

Regarding "bossy", it could be pointed out that there are negative words that tend only to be used about men e.g. loser, creep, bastard, etc.

Sadly society the media isn't concerned with mens self-esteem or self-worth. Clearly rising suicides clearly don't cause concern (or at least enough concern).

newport2

iptba wrote: »

Regarding "bossy", it could be pointed out that there are negative words that tend only to be used about men e.g. loser, creep, bastard, etc.

The term "bossy" isn't so common for men because "bossy" men get called a-holes or something worse. So going forward, just apply the same rules for both.

Mike747

Surely these weirdos can find actual women's rights to campaign against, as opposed to trying to 'ban' words they don't like?

iptba

Radical feminist who wants the male population reduced to 1-10% of the population over the next few decades!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvEJfN-jiS4

My guess is a video with a man saying the equivalent would be banned (and I'd be happy for that to happen of course). I've just submitted a complaint myself to see what happens.

It's not an obscure video - it's had 215,000 views. She has 13,000 subscribers.

Rhotheta

I was listening to "The Right Hook" yesterday and it caught my attention that his copresenters are perfectly comfortable to ridicule his looks and general appearance in a comedic manner, I don't think I've ever heard women having their appearance disparaged in such a manner, it's perfectly acceptable to do it to men but not women.

Seriously?

iptba wrote: »

Radical feminist who wants the male population reduced to 1-10% of the population over the next few decades!

It would appear to me to be a wind-up video, at least I hope it is a wind-up video.

That said wind-up or not if someone put up a video suggesting that females such be culled from this earth I can't see it remaining for long.

constance tench

Rhotheta wrote: »

I was listening to "The Right Hook" yesterday and it caught my attention that his copresenters are perfectly comfortable to ridicule his looks and general appearance in a comedic manner, I don't think I've ever heard women having their appearance disparaged in such a manner, it's perfectly acceptable to do it to men but not women.

In fairness...it's kind of a running joke which George feeds himself, be it his obsession with bounty bars, his age, decongestants that knock him out...or ''the lovely Ingred''...all tongue in cheek stuff.

Ivan Yates regularly throws out some of the most un PC comments ever on News Talk and even adds a little chuckle at the end for effect, again, all tongue in cheek stuff:)