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Unhelpful 'gendering' of social issues
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Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 22,366 CMod ✭✭✭✭
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I think it was a poor panel as they had noone to play devils advocate. Davenport was the only one who even attempted to counteract her article. She did raise some good points during the interview which hardens my belief that she wrote the article for publicity as none of the points that were coherant were contained in the article.
She also admitted that she had written the article before the Garda made the statement which I thought was funny.
I did like the boards mention
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Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 18,381 CMod ✭✭✭✭
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NiallSparky wrote: »Apparently all us men are at fault that rape still exists: http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/telling-women-to-be-careful-gets-men-off-the-hook-1.1536337
That article came up my work twitter feed. I don't normally get too invested in caring, but I think using the heading/subheading 'men must accept...' is clearly out to **** stir - the same could likely be said of any that starts with 'women must accept...' And what is she trying to get us to accept, that men carry out most violence? That's a given. I'm a little uneasy about her jumping on an open Garda murder investigation, but OK, her beef is with the Commissioner's comments and the perception of blame. Fine, write away. Overall, I get what she is trying to say, but it's a poor article.
A couple of points. Firstly, why are people calling this journalism? It's not. It's in the realm of opinion and there is zero hard analysis. I don't really see an issue with that as the mainstream media has always run sound, if imperfect investigatory journalism and opinion pieces. Hers is clearly not the former. It's like taking a John Waters piece as fact when it's usually just spleen venting. I wouldn't get too bogged down in having a pop at the Irish Times at an ideological level, tbh. Trouble is, the internet has very much changed how the print media does some of its work. People want content and they want it now. The traditional media, imo, isn't entirely to blame here. It's easier to take stuff and post it online because the business model to do detailed analysis is probably no longer viable. Not to say they should give up on it, mind. Instead what matters is page views, brand awareness and ads. Buuuut, all of that doesn't mean attacking the content of her piece should be off limits, not at all.
Secondly, can some explain to me what 'rape culture' is? That rape happens? That there is, from her view, a casual and indifferent attitude towards it, jokes down the pub? That by having a penis all men somehow facilitate rape? What? She said
I don't have friends like this, I never have. I just don't. Yes, of course, when you're in school there's probably a bit of knockers, wahaay!! and yes, OK, some of that carries over into adulthood. I've never been to a strip club. I've no interest in it. She's doing an awful lot of armchair BS psychoanalysing here.Men, of course, argue that this generalisation is unfair, that it demonises blokes who are non-violent and deplore such behaviour. Yet every group of guys has a buddy who is a little wayward, and whose behaviour towards women is dubious. Many men remain silent when the lads suggest a strip club on a stag night, even if they are uncomfortable with it. Most guys probably have a suspicion that a male close to them has bought sex.
On my last holiday I was aware of a guy and girl who got together in a pub toilet (thankfully, I didn't see the act itself) and then essentially get a verbal 'high five, buddy' cheer from strangers once he emerged from the toilet. She was greeted similarly, too. There was a lot of alcohol involved. So, Una, was it up to me to challenge their mores on this? I'm not into that sort of thing myself, and no, I'm not down with telling people I barely know on how to conduct themselves. There were 3-4 other women at our table, about the same number of men. One of the women wasn't drinking, nor was I. If any of us at the table felt she was at risk I'm fairly sure we wouldn't have let the situation develop as it did.
Sometimes around these parts we're accused of flying the BUT WHAT ABOUT THE MEN?! banner. Una seems to be doing this only in that she is somehow unique in being the first person to point out that men have and do attack women. Wow, I hadn't thought of that before...
And yet, you've used the biggest one you can find.You can’t tar every man with the same brush
She speaks about the issue of under-reported rape and sexual violence. She is correct to state that it is a problem, the failures of the judicial system and that, to a degree, some people shift the blame onto the victim. Todd Akin and other morons like that. But aside from that, I think one of the biggest problems is that a lot of the time the perpetrator is someone known - a neighbour, brother, thus making it very intimidating for people to come forward. That very much needs to change.How refreshing would it have been if Callinan had decided to appeal to potential attackers instead of potential victims? Why must we continue to exonerate the perpetrators of violence in our society – overwhelmingly male – while telling women to watch their backs? Everyone knows the best remedy for any ill is prevention. If being a man means standing up and taking responsibility for one’s actions, then men: be men.
Is she that naive to think this would make any difference? Oh look, the top brass of AGS is telling men not to rape. As if those inclined this way (for whom I've no time) would actually pay any heed. Cop on. As to feminism, I haven't really gotten into conversations with women where they've said 'I'm a feminist', but if I do I'll ask them what they mean. I've said before that I don't really know what it is because it has a PR problem which I put on people like Una and how they try to frame debates. Lazy analysis. All of her blather simply does reinforce negative stereotypes about it. I would much rather hear from ordinary woman and how they think of feminism rather than some train wreck of an article. It doesn't matter where you fall on the ideological or political spectrum, there is something very echo chambery about pieces like this and ordinary people need to be the ones setting the tone of the debates.
Last night I discovered Project Unbreakable. It basically shows people who have been sexually assaulted with signs of what their attackers said. Give people ownership of telling their story and it will hit home. Much more powerful than any opinion driven, half baked sociology textbook tripe from Una.
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You should submit that as a letter to the Irish Times, might help improve their content!
Good post. Some very good posts in this thread overall, great to see some sensibility breaking through the madness.
I think it's fair to say that a lot of us have taken this personally and taken offence to the article. Why? Because we realise how abhorrent and vile the act of rape is and we do not in any way want to be linked to that horrible crime, particularly by such a weak link as us simply being male.
For someone that appears to feel so strongly about rape Una Mullally's article did nothing to highlight the issue and encourage worthwhile debate about it and did more to damage her arguments.
I hope she doesn't see a potential career in politics for herself in the future.0 -
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Just to point out that that would be too long for the paper.Nathanael Jolly Barmaid wrote: »You should submit that as a letter to the Irish Times, might help improve their content!
But it could be posted as a comment under the piece. The Irish Times is now allowing people post using Twitter accounts so effectively one can be anonymous (one can have more than one Twitter account). For a while, it was just Facebook and LinkedIn accounts which for most people took away the anonymous option.0 -
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