Forgive Me, A&A, For I Feel I have Gone to the Dark Side

kylith

I got a job. This is good. The ungood thing is that it's in a convent.

I didn't know it was in a convent when I applied for it, I thought it was for an organisation which is now related to the convent in name only, but I got offered it and now I work with nuns on a daily basis. By the time I found out I'd been informed of the salary and after two years without a job good money is very hard to turn down. Sometimes you must swallow your pride so that your family can swallow bread, as they say.

I took it for the money. I took it because I was afraid my dole would be cut if I didn't. I took it because spending another 6 months sitting on my sofa would have tipped me over the edge.

They don't know I'm not one of them. They haven't asked, but if they do I won't lie.

They're nice people here, I work mainly with lay people in the office, only one or two nuns are involved in the day to day running of the place. They seem to like me, and to think I do a good job. I may be offered a permanent position when my initial 6 month contract is up. I wouldn't want it, I have issues with religion in general and with religious orders in particular. Unfortunately I need a job to do the things I want to do in life like buy a house, run a car, go on holiday, afford to have children...

Anyway, I don't really know why I posted this except that in a weird way I felt I was hiding it from ye, like I was afraid of what you'd all think of me. Oh, and to say; if you hear of anyone looking for a decent administrator in 6 month's time let me know.

smacl

We all do what we have to do in order to make a living, and you wouldn't be the first person who didn't agree with their employees or clients ethos. I really wouldn't let it upset you, particularly if you can get on well enough on a day to day basis. Think of all those working for American multinationals that don't agree with American politics, or those working in the Middle East who don't agree with Muslim ideals. It's part and parcel of life.

Oh, and congrats on getting a job in these straitened times.

Sarky

<shrug>

Take their money, spend it on godless unCatholic things, like your home, beer, fun and poor people. Everybody wins.

Rev Hellfire

The nice thing about money is its good for burying your principles

Delirium

Phase 1 of Operation Holy Mole is go! :P





best of luck with the job, kylith

Sarky

Holy Mole... I like it. Admin, too. Maybe kylith could accidentally hand over a school or trust fund or something...

tommy2bad

Sarky wrote: »

<shrug>

Take their money, spend it on godless unCatholic things, like your home, beer, fun and poor people. Everybody wins.

Nothing more catholic than beer!
http://www.stpeterslist.com/197/the-7-authentic-trappist-monk-beers/

Sarky

I stand corrected. Well, I'm sitting down waiting for someone to upgrade my work computer so I can actually do some work (Never thought I'd actually ever NEED 16 gigs of memory and a terabyte hard disk, but meh...), but I digress.

kylith

Thanks for not kicking me out of Atheism because of my guilt by association I've been telling myself that every penny I'm paid chips away at the organisation a little.

Sarky wrote: »

Holy Mole... I like it. Admin, too. Maybe kylith could accidentally hand over a school or trust fund or something...

Unfortunately not. I could misfile someone's pension information, if that helps.

robindch

kylith wrote: »

[...] only one or two nuns are involved in the day to day running of the place [...]

Hmmm.... - gossip!

kylith

robindch wrote: »

Hmmm.... - gossip!

There's not one of them under 50. I'd say there are a couple who think computers are some kind of electronic abacus.

Pherekydes

Well done on getting a job. I'd like one, too!

Well, now we have our insider...

Karl Stein

"They were only Nuns".

Benny_Cake

tommy2bad wrote: »

Nothing more catholic than beer!
http://www.stpeterslist.com/197/the-7-authentic-trappist-monk-beers/

I'm still kicking myself for not picking up a case of Westvleteren 12 while they were selling it online to raise extra funds. The monks have resumed business as usual, which means phoning the monastery, arranging a time, and picking it up in person.

Congratulations on getting the job kylith.

nozzferrahhtoo

Always good to have someone on the ground behind enemy lines

tommy2bad

Charlie Rock wrote: »

"They were only Nuns".

MrPudding

Meh. You do what you have to in order to provide for you family. Look at me, I moved to the mainland. <I'll get me coat>

MrP

FouxDaFaFa

two wheels good

Do you think they have any old adoption records stored away - that they are refusing to disclose to people adopted as children? Now that would be retribution!

Morag

Just be careful about the T&C in your contract for employment, sometimes the 'bringing your employer into disrepute' can be used against those who are not of the religion of the employment body.

Kiwi in IE

Congratulations on getting the job Kylith. The situation you find yourself in, in regard to the religion of your employer, is no different to that of the vast majority of teachers in Ireland.

Brian Shanahan

kylith wrote: »

I got a job. This is good. The ungood thing is that it's in a convent.

I didn't know it was in a convent when I applied for it, I thought it was for an organisation which is now related to the convent in name only, but I got offered it and now I work with nuns on a daily basis. By the time I found out I'd been informed of the salary and after two years without a job good money is very hard to turn down. Sometimes you must swallow your pride so that your family can swallow bread, as they say.

I took it for the money. I took it because I was afraid my dole would be cut if I didn't. I took it because spending another 6 months sitting on my sofa would have tipped me over the edge.

They don't know I'm not one of them. They haven't asked, but if they do I won't lie.

They're nice people here, I work mainly with lay people in the office, only one or two nuns are involved in the day to day running of the place. They seem to like me, and to think I do a good job. I may be offered a permanent position when my initial 6 month contract is up. I wouldn't want it, I have issues with religion in general and with religious orders in particular. Unfortunately I need a job to do the things I want to do in life like buy a house, run a car, go on holiday, afford to have children...

Anyway, I don't really know why I posted this except that in a weird way I felt I was hiding it from ye, like I was afraid of what you'd all think of me. Oh, and to say; if you hear of anyone looking for a decent administrator in 6 month's time let me know.

1) Congratulations on the job.
2) Your issues are probably with the organisation not the people.
3) I mentioned previously that I volunteered with a group of nuns. They weren't interested in my beliefs (well apart from the general nosiness, endemic to us Irish people) but more in the quality of person I was. It'll be probably the same for you.
4) Like Homer Simpson, you are simply working as an inside man to bring the edifice down.:D

Gbear

I'm not sure would I feel comfortable in that sort of situation myself but I'd imagine having kiddywinkies changes your perspective on certain issues and what's important in your life.

If you're happy to do it that's all that matters.

jank

Sarky wrote: »

<shrug>

Take their money, spend it on godless unCatholic things, like your home, beer, fun and poor people. Everybody wins.

European Monks were excellant brewers of beer.

kylith

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

1) Congratulations on the job.
2) Your issues are probably with the organisation not the people.
3) I mentioned previously that I volunteered with a group of nuns. They weren't interested in my beliefs (well apart from the general nosiness, endemic to us Irish people) but more in the quality of person I was. It'll be probably the same for you.
4) Like Homer Simpson, you are simply working as an inside man to bring the edifice down.:D

Spot on in every respect. I'm actually surprised by how little religion is mentioned, other than them quietly blessing themselves before eating.

A woman I share an office with did apologise to me for blaspheming yesterday though, which I thought a bit weird.

Tramps Like Us

kylith wrote: »

I got a job. This is good. The ungood thing is that it's in a convent.

I didn't know it was in a convent when I applied for it, I thought it was for an organisation which is now related to the convent in name only, but I got offered it and now I work with nuns on a daily basis. By the time I found out I'd been informed of the salary and after two years without a job good money is very hard to turn down. Sometimes you must swallow your pride so that your family can swallow bread, as they say.

I took it for the money. I took it because I was afraid my dole would be cut if I didn't. I took it because spending another 6 months sitting on my sofa would have tipped me over the edge.

They don't know I'm not one of them. They haven't asked, but if they do I won't lie.

They're nice people here, I work mainly with lay people in the office, only one or two nuns are involved in the day to day running of the place. They seem to like me, and to think I do a good job. I may be offered a permanent position when my initial 6 month contract is up. I wouldn't want it, I have issues with religion in general and with religious orders in particular. Unfortunately I need a job to do the things I want to do in life like buy a house, run a car, go on holiday, afford to have children...

Anyway, I don't really know why I posted this except that in a weird way I felt I was hiding it from ye, like I was afraid of what you'd all think of me. Oh, and to say; if you hear of anyone looking for a decent administrator in 6 month's time let me know.

In that case you are some hypocrite.

kylith

When you don't have a job you're told to get a job, any job, and to stop being so fussy. When you accept the first job offer you've had in two years you get called a hypocrite.

You'd prefer me to go back to sponging off the dole, would you?

Tramps Like Us

kylith wrote: »

When you don't have a job you're told to get a job, any job, and to stop being so fussy. When you accept the first job offer you've had in two years you get called a hypocrite.

You'd prefer me to go back to sponging off the dole, would you?

I'm not insulting you, I'm just pointing it out, you are a hypocrite, no matter how many extenuating circumstances you have.

Kiwi in IE

Tramps Like Us wrote: »

In that case you are some hypocrite.

Hello and welcome to A&A! Immediately being rude to a regular member was a nice way to start.

Tramps Like Us

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

Hello and welcome to A&A! Immediately being rude to a regular member was a nice way to start.

Can you explain how its not a fair comment?

kylith

Tramps Like Us wrote: »

I'm not insulting you, I'm just pointing it out, you are a hypocrite, no matter how many extenuating circumstances you have.

LOL, "I'm not insulting you, I'm just insulting you".

Maybe I am a hypocrite. I very nearly turned down this job because I'm so conflicted about it, but then I'd just have people giving out to me for turning down a perfectly good job for no good reason and calling me a work-shy sponger.

I'd say that I'll go hand in my resignation and go starve in a ditch now but I don't really see sorting through files as a major breach of my principles. I'm not chuffed about working in a religious environment, but I'll keep at it until AI are hiring.

Sarky

jank wrote: »

European Monks were excellant brewers of beer.

Yes, we've been over that. Welcome to yesterday.

Kiwi in IE

Tramps Like Us wrote: »

Can you explain how its not a fair comment?

Would you say the same to non Catholic primary school teachers? She has clearly explained her situation in the OP. Not that she needs to justify herself to you or I.

I am a nurse, when I'm working in the community I occasionally take clients to church if they can't get there themselves and wish to go. Does that make me a hypocrite?

robindch

Tramps Like Us wrote: »

In that case you are some hypocrite.

And you'll be "That poster who got banned the same day they started posting in A+A" if you continue like that.

Chill please. Try and be nice. Cut out the aggro.

smacl

Tramps Like Us wrote: »

I'm not insulting you, I'm just pointing it out, you are a hypocrite, no matter how many extenuating circumstances you have.

What exactly is hypocritical about doing a job that you don't like to pay the bills?

Sycopat

Tramps Like Us wrote: »

Can you explain how its not a fair comment?

Hypocrisy is not the failure to practice what you value.

It is to claim a characteristic one does not have.

It is not hypocritical to feel uncomfortable working for a religious order. Unless you're not uncomfortable working for a religious order.

Aside from incorrect terminology, it's generally considered rude to call someone a hypocrite. Instead one points out the hypocrisy of their stated position (which in this case it isn't, as described above).

My own (flawed) understanding is that because humans are naturally irrational, and thus prone to occasional accidental hypocrisy, it is hypocritical to call someone a hypocrite. Hence it's rudeness.

Personally, I think it's good to be able to acknowledge when a situation is not ideal, but still see it's advantages to the available alternative rather than the fictional ideal.

Manach

Welcome ... we have cookies.

Obliq

Manach wrote: »

Welcome ... we have cookies.

Ha! That's quite funny.

Tramps Like Us

He/she says that they will only work for the six months and not accept a full time job if offered because the job conflicts with their morals/ethics or whatever, then why take the job in the first place if you feel that strongly. You'll be back unemployed then anyway - there's nothing to be ashamed of for being on the dole anyone who says otherwise or insults you for being so is a moron.

I'm unemployed atm and there are a few jobs which my conscience would not be comfortable with doing - I don't apply for these jobs. Take for example a banks legal dept, there is no way I would be comfortable in working for them (and I had an opportunity to do so, covering for someone, pay was quite good) because given my ethics with regards to evictions and the misery they've brought on the country there is no way I'd be able to sit in for six months or a year drafting threatening letters, harassing people on the phone or whatnot - if I did I would be a hypocrite or a fraud or whatever is the correct term if we are going to be pedantic. Maybe the OP doesn't have that much strength in his or her convictions, but if you disagreed with religious orders and what they stand for and do you shouldnt work for them and aid them. Sorry if I'm being too critical and this was supposed to be a lighthearted thread but religious orders, like the banks (if not more so) have inflicted so much misery in this country and still withhold compensation and the like - I wouldn't be able to help them cause I'd feel a fraud and that the money should go to victims

Again I'll say I didn't mean to be insulting, I should have considered and elaborated more rather that just posting what first came to mind.

Brian Shanahan

kylith wrote: »

LOL, "I'm not insulting you, I'm just insulting you".

Maybe I am a hypocrite. I very nearly turned down this job because I'm so conflicted about it, but then I'd just have people giving out to me for turning down a perfectly good job for no good reason and calling me a work-shy sponger.

I'd say that I'll go hand in my resignation and go starve in a ditch now but I don't really see sorting through files as a major breach of my principles. I'm not chuffed about working in a religious environment, but I'll keep at it until AI are hiring.

You're not going round proselytising the catholic dogma, correct?

Assuming that you aren't, and just doing a job that invovles working with nuns in some capacity, in a generally charitable situation, then you're not. If the job you're doing is doing some good, and is a valuable contribution to society, then anyone with any moral sense wouldn't give a flying fúck who you're doing it with.

Kiwi in IE

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

You're not going round proselytising the catholic dogma, correct?

Assuming that you aren't, and just doing a job that invovles working with nuns in some capacity, in a generally charitable situation, then you're not. If the job you're doing is doing some good, and is a valuable contribution to society, then anyone with any moral sense wouldn't give a flying fúck who you're doing it with.

I feel very sorry for non Catholic people who grow up knowing that primary teaching is what they want to do. They have the option of trying to get a job in the 10% of non Catholic Schools (many of those are Protestant so too bad if that dosn't suit you either), being forced to present bulls**t to impressionable children as reality (although if you are non Catholic 90% of schools have a right not to employ you anyway), or immigrate.

At least Kylith's job does not involve indoctrination of vulnerable, innocent children. For me personally that would be impossible to reconcile. My younger sister is a primary teacher and she has been thinking of moving over here for a few years. I have told her not to expect to get a teaching job as she is not Catholic or Protestant and non religious schools make up about 3%. She thought I was joking initially.

Hotblack Desiato

Manach wrote: »

Welcome ... we have cookies.

And magic wafers.

Hotblack Desiato

Tramps Like Us wrote: »

I'm unemployed atm and there are a few jobs which my conscience would not be comfortable with doing - I don't apply for these jobs. Take for example a banks legal dept, there is no way I would be comfortable in working for them (and I had an opportunity to do so, covering for someone, pay was quite good) because given my ethics with regards to evictions and the misery they've brought on the country there is no way I'd be able to sit in for six months or a year drafting threatening letters, harassing people on the phone or whatnot - if I did I would be a hypocrite or a fraud or whatever is the correct term if we are going to be pedantic.

So you think the taxpayer should continue to support you until a job you feel like doing turns up? Yet you feel entitled to criticise the choice the OP made, for taking a job she feels conflicted about? Wow, just wow.

Turtwig

I'd actually love to know if it's in states best interest to put a person on the dole into a job an they don't want. On the one hand there's the immediate burden of the state's welfare cost lifted. On the other there's the negative impact on the individuals motivation. If they're in a job they don't like then they'll be looking for a way out. The thing is, depending on motivation, circumstances and fortune, they may never get out. Leaving the possible scenario where due to lack of motivation and financial trap they're stuck in a very low paying job. So likely little hope of tax return. The question is would welfare where autonomy is allowed lead to a greater chance of individuals in higher tax brackets and as a consequence a greater return to the state over the long term?

I'd really love to know how the demographics would break down depending on welfare model chosen.

Kidchameleon

OP, does the particular convent you work for have any bad history? If not then I don't see what your problem is.

Did you give a crap about the religion of your previous employers?