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Frascati Road and Temple Hill proposed alterations for cyclists and pedestrians
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That's unreal even from you.
What's that supposed to mean?
If you look at the crossroads joining Cumberland Street, Clarence Street, York Road and George's Street Lower in Dun Laoghaire, you will frequently see tri-axle buses and articulated trucks alike crossing the center line while turning left. In my opinion, this is a dangerous practice as no vehicle should have to be placed into the path of oncoming traffic.On larger roads which we're talking about there's no need for slips to allow HGVs to turn at signaled controlled junctions -- just well spaced junctions.
Larger roads like the one in question are there to serve the two shopping centers in Blackrock as well as other amenities which do indeed require HGV access. What do you mean by "well spaced" anyway?
For me slip lanes and traffic medians break the crossing into more smaller manageable sections. Now, I still maintain that speed ramps are needed to stop speeding motorists from taking them too quickly.What you're describing is mostly commonly seen in areas unsuited to HGVs. Large trucks like a lot of things have their time and place.
Given the important function large trucks have in stock transportation among other things, I think it is quite narrow minded to say that they "have their time and place". If anything, I think there is a huge shortage of roads along the coast that are suitable for large trucks (well...due south east of Dun Laoghaire Town Center anyway).0 -
patrickbrophy18 wrote: »What's that supposed to mean?
If you look at the crossroads joining Cumberland Street, Clarence Street, York Road and George's Street Lower in Dun Laoghaire, you will frequently see tri-axle buses and articulated trucks alike crossing the center line while turning left. In my opinion, this is a dangerous practice as no vehicle should have to be placed into the path of oncoming traffic.
In my last reply to you I said:On larger roads which we're talking about there's no need for slips to allow HGVs to turn at signaled controlled junctions -- just well spaced junctions.
What you're describing is mostly commonly seen in areas unsuited to HGVs. Large trucks like a lot of things have their time and place.
Now you're already back taking about narrow roads in confined spaces -- which are not relevant to a discussion about a large load with large junctions.patrickbrophy18 wrote: »Larger roads like the one in question are there to serve the two shopping centers in Blackrock as well as other amenities which do indeed require HGV access.
Nobody has said that there's no requirement for HGV access on the Blackrock bypass.patrickbrophy18 wrote: »For me slip lanes and traffic medians break the crossing into more smaller manageable sections. Now, I still maintain that speed ramps are needed to stop speeding motorists from taking them too quickly.
As discussed before, your thinking on this is counter to most who work in the are of pedestrian priority and accessibly for users of all ages and abilities.patrickbrophy18 wrote: »Given the important function large trucks have in stock transportation among other things, I think it is quite narrow minded to say that they "have their time and place". If anything, I think there is a huge shortage of roads along the coast that are suitable for large trucks (well...due south east of Dun Laoghaire Town Center anyway).
Your last suggestion of a mass one-way system for the area south east of Dun Laoghaire was shot down by a good few posters, now what exactly are you suggesting? Large-scale demolition and road building in places like Dalkey just to suit HGVs?0 -
patrickbrophy18 wrote: »you will frequently see tri-axle buses and articulated trucks alike crossing the center line while turning left. In my opinion, this is a dangerous practice as no vehicle should have to be placed into the path of oncoming traffic.
Spot Quiz. Which is more dangerous -
* a HGV crossing the centre line into oncoming traffic - traffic which should be slowing down because they're approaching a junction
* any vehicle crossing a cycle lane / passing a pedestrian crossing to get to a slip lane. Bear in mind that that vehicle is encouraged *not* to slow down by the design of the road and their focus will be on traffic coming from the right, not the pedestrian or cyclist to their left
As an aside, if there is no room for a HGV to make a left turn at a junction, 99% of the time you'll find it's because motorists haven't stopped at the stop line or the stop line is incorrectly placed.0 -
* a HGV crossing the centre line into oncoming traffic - traffic which should be slowing down because they're approaching a junction
Of course, traffic should slow down on approaching a junction. I'm not disputing the dangers of this for a second as junctions particularly crossroads, T-junctions and roundabouts are critical points where caution needs to be exorcised. I've always thought that cameras could be fitted to traffic lights to catch someone who has either broken a red light or has occupied the cyclist bay at the front of a lane.* any vehicle crossing a cycle lane to get to a slip lane where that vehicle is encouraged *not* to slow down by the design of the road and where their focus will be on traffic coming from the right, not the pedestrian or cyclist to their left
If the driver of the vehicle has failed the routine (or supposed to be) mirrors and more importantly, blind spot check, it could be catastrophic. In any case, observation from the motorist is paramount in ensuring the safety of other road users. Otherwise, they shouldn't be driving in the first place. No motorist should be looking right when doing a left turn or at least not when it's unsafe to do so.As an aside, if there is no room for a HGV to make a left turn at a junction, 99% of the time you'll find it's because motorists haven't stopped at the stop line or the stop line is incorrectly placed.
Indeed, I do acknowledge the fact that many motorists do cross the stop line which is incompetent to say the least. On that note, a stop line that is set back from a crossroads reduces the visibility of all road users on the perpendicular road which introduces an element of uncertainty to what's around the corner.
Then again, that's my opinion. Each to their own.0 -
patrickbrophy18 wrote: »Of course, traffic should slow down on approaching a junction.
No motorist should be looking right when doing a left turn or at least not when it's unsafe to do so.
I do acknowledge the fact that many motorists do cross the stop line
You can't trust motorists to drive safely all the time because they're human and make mistakes. If you design roads which only work if everyone drives perfectly, you'll end up with unsafe roads and roads where more vulnerable users and marginalised.
Then again, that's my opinion. Each to their own.[/QUOTE]0 -
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As discussed before, your thinking on this is counter to most who work in the are of pedestrian priority and accessibly for users of all ages and abilities.
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If you design roads which only work if everyone drives perfectly, you'll end up with unsafe roads and roads where more vulnerable users and marginalised.
Points 1 and 2 above could easily be addressed with tweaks to traffic light sequences such as an extra 10-20 seconds allocated to the green man at pedestrian crossings. I've never seen it take more than 20 seconds for anyone to get from one side of the road to the other by foot. While I understand that there are a lot of vulnerable road users, I do think the use of the word "marginalised" is overly dramatic.You can't trust motorists to drive safely all the time because they're human and make mistakes.
This perspective ("they're human and make mistakes") may be okay for the more mundane tasks. However, when people are behind the wheel of a car or are operating other heavy machinery, it is a position of huge responsibility. As such, said perspective does not apply. In other words, human error is inexcusable in this case.
Generally, all road users (Drivers, pedestrians, cyclists and skateboarders) are expected to be observant and to anticipate the actions of each other. For example, when a motorist is taking a left into a slip lane, they should check their mirrors and blind spots to ensure they don't swipe a cyclist going straight on. Similarly, if a pedestrian insists on crossing the road when the light is red or crosses well in advance of designated crossing facilities, it isn't a big deal to take a moment to look both ways. Finally, if a cyclist uses the same tarmac as motorists, they should travel in the same direction. For skateboarders, I would strongly advise not to perform any stunts within close range of moving traffic. Most importantly, all road users should be forced to obey the traffic lights that apply to them. Failure to do so should result in:- A €1000 fine and complete ban on driving for bus and truck drivers. This would mean an end to their career.
- A €100 fine and 6 penalty points for motorists and impounding their car. Each subsequent occurrence would increment the fine by €100.
- A €15 fine for cyclists with possible impounding of their bike. A more lenient cautioning system would be used for those below the age of 16.
- A €5 fine for pedestrians who cross at a junction when the man is red without looking both ways. A more lenient cautioning system would be used for those below the age of 16.
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patrickbrophy18 wrote: »...
- A €5 fine for pedestrians who cross at a junction when the man is red without looking both ways. ...
:pac:
Gaze patrol?
But Ossifer, I did move my eyes!0 -
There is no set of pedestrian lights at the junction where that poor cyclist was killed at Carysfort/Blackrock. There is if you are walking down to or from the village from both sides of the junction. If you are walking from Permament TSB over to the SCs there are no lights. In order to cross properly you would have to walk down to the village, cross at Tonic and walk back up again. How come I wonder, incredibly dangerous.0
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