Pedestrian Crossing Lower Mallow Street-Shannon Bridge Roundabout

fryup

is this design (for want of a better word) the standard throughout europe??

Scar001

The UK government recommendations are available online.
States that the crossing should be within 5 metres and 20 metres back from the yield line for cars. I think the idea is that there should be a central kerbed island between the incoming and outgoing lanes, which offers protection for the pedestrian when they are halfway across. Not sure if this is the case at the Shannonbridge roundabout??
I suspect the pedestrian crossing on the Jury's Inn side is no more than 5 metres back.

thesimpsons

on topic of this roundabout (but not the ped crossings) its becoming habit for some drivers to take the left lane over the bridge and right round the roundabout to 3rd exit. see it mostly in mornings when I guess some drivers just don't believe in following rules of road. I know it used to happen yrs ago but it seemed to disappear until just recently. bloody annoying - can be hard enough sometimes to get onto roundabout from Mallow st side without idiots doing this.

krudler

untouchable wrote: »

maybe a couple of speed cams will sort it out. the amount of times i go to cross at any pedestrian crossing only for cars to fly through it is a joke. some people think they own teh road and some professions at that

Oh yeah I know cars are meant to stop, but I'd never just blindly walk straight out across a crossing without checking people have slowed down first, its madness to assume.

phog

thesimpsons wrote: »

on topic of this roundabout (but not the ped crossings) its becoming habit for some drivers to take the left lane over the bridge and right round the roundabout to 3rd exit. see it mostly in mornings when I guess some drivers just don't believe in following rules of road. I know it used to happen yrs ago but it seemed to disappear until just recently. bloody annoying - can be hard enough sometimes to get onto roundabout from Mallow st side without idiots doing this.

The gardai controlled this for a while and stamped out the practice, by the sounds of things it needs to be checked again.

phill106

untouchable wrote: »

maybe a couple of speed cams will sort it out. the amount of times i go to cross at any pedestrian crossing only for cars to fly through it is a joke. some people think they own teh road and some professions at that

Speed isnt the issue. If a car is doing 30kph and a pedestrian walks quickly out onto the crossing it would not end well. Either a injured pedestrian or a driver needing to change their trousers!

black & white

phog wrote: »

The gardai controlled this for a while and stamped out the practice, by the sounds of things it needs to be checked again.

Correct, they had someone outside Snap print who spent an hour or so writing tickets.

Cookiemunster

untouchable wrote: »

maybe a couple of speed cams will sort it out. the amount of times i go to cross at any pedestrian crossing only for cars to fly through it is a joke. some people think they own teh road and some professions at that

Speed isn't the problem. At a roundabout you're not going to be travelling fast, especially at this roundabout. The problem is that to navigate a roundabout you're attention can't be solely on whats in front of you. You have to constantly watch for other traffic entering / leaving the roundabout. It's only on leaving the roundabout that you can again fully concentrate on whats in front of you. When the crossing however is on top of the junction, you have no reaction time if someone steps off the path in front of you, even if you're only travelling at 30kph.

Scar001 wrote: »

The UK government recommendations are available online.
States that the crossing should be within 5 metres and 20 metres back from the yield line for cars. I think the idea is that there should be a central kerbed island between the incoming and outgoing lanes, which offers protection for the pedestrian when they are halfway across. Not sure if this is the case at the Shannonbridge roundabout??
I suspect the pedestrian crossing on the Jury's Inn side is no more than 5 metres back.

It's only about 2m back. If a car leaving the roundabout has to stop the back of the car will still be on the roundabout. It's way to close, but it's the same all over the city.

untouchable

again this is not just in limerick. it is all over ireland and all over the world

it is a feature to slow down motorists using the roundabout. both going onto and coming off.

i dont see how it is dangerous to stop on a roundabout if everyone is going slow enough

DarkJager

untouchable wrote: »

again this is not just in limerick. it is all over ireland and all over the world

it is a feature to slow down motorists using the roundabout. both going onto and coming off.

i dont see how it is dangerous to stop on a roundabout if everyone is going slow enough

How is it a feature to slow down motorists when they can't even see it until they're almost on top of it? It's a hazard to both motorists and pedestrians. And if you can't see why it's dangerous to stop on a roundabout you obviously don't drive.

untouchable

DarkJager wrote: »

How is it a feature to slow down motorists when they can't even see it until they're almost on top of it? It's a hazard to both motorists and pedestrians. And if you can't see why it's dangerous to stop on a roundabout you obviously don't drive.

thats such a cop out

you dont need to see it until your coming off the roundabout. if you are driving at 20km your not going to have trouble stopping.

this is something that is used all over the world be it australia to even the states where we think they dont use roundabouts. it is used to slow down cars

DarkJager

untouchable wrote: »

thats such a cop out

you dont need to see it until your coming off the roundabout if you are driving at 20km your not going to have trouble stopping.

this is something that is used all over the world be it australia to even the states where we think they dont use roundabouts. it is used to slow down cars

What?? I'm controlling a moving ton of weight and I don't need to see a crossing which is being used by pedestrians until they're almost under the wheels? It's an absolute danger to everyone. If I come off the roundabout and someone is crossing it one of two things could happen.

A) I jam on the brakes and end up with another car parked straight in to the back of me.
Depending on road conditions (wet or icy), the brakes don't stop the car and the pedestrian goes under the wheels.

It will probably take a death there to make yourself and the council see its a completely illogical placing for a crossing.

Cookiemunster

untouchable wrote: »

thats such a cop out

you dont need to see it until your coming off the roundabout. if you are driving at 20km your not going to have trouble stopping.

this is something that is used all over the world be it australia to even the states where we think they dont use roundabouts. it is used to slow down cars

I have to agree with DarkJager. Do you drive? Because you sound like someone who doesn't.
Even at 20kmph if someone steps out on the road in front of you that you couldn't see while navigating the roundabout you will still have to slam the brakes. The issue is that the crossings are too close to the junction, not the speed of the cars.

untouchable

DarkJager wrote: »

What?? I'm controlling a moving ton of weight and I don't need to see a crossing which is being used by pedestrians until they're almost under the wheels? It's an absolute danger to everyone. If I come off the roundabout and someone is crossing it one of two things could happen.

A) I jam on the brakes and end up with another car parked straight in to the back of me.
Depending on road conditions (wet or icy), the brakes don't stop the car and the pedestrian goes under the wheels.

It will probably take a death there to make yourself and the council see its a completely illogical placing for a crossing.

you mean me the council and the rest of the world................. yea everyone else is wrong

let me ask you how long it takes you to get from 20kim to 0km??

fact is speed is THE sole issue

DarkJager

untouchable wrote: »

you mean me the council and the rest of the world................. yea everyone else is wrong

let me ask you how long it takes you to get from 20kim to 0km??

fact is speed is THE sole issue

As the above poster said it's nothing to do with speed, it's the immediate braking required due to the stupid proximity to the roundabout that is the issue. That crossing a further 5-10 metres up the road would be no issue.

As for the speed, it's a road which is used by vehicles. Roads have a speed limit. You cannot honestly expect vehicles to crawl around at 20kph because there might some idiotic pedestrian crossing around a blind corner. Motorists have enough hazards to watch for while driving without one being placed deliberately in their path and out of view.

untouchable

http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/need-use-subways-cross-Bear-Pit/story-16450164-detail/story.html

http://www.google.ie/imgres?imgurl=http://international.fhwa.dot.gov/pubs/pl03020/images/fig5_6.jpg&imgrefurl=http://international.fhwa.dot.gov/pubs/pl03020/chp05.cfm&h=345&w=500&sz=189&tbnid=W3wQCXkSw2nwDM:&tbnh=92&tbnw=133&zoom=1&usg=__v-_RjJgHD8wAXRO23xuWtUfixWw=&docid=t2j01WjWBEkuIM&sa=X&ei=H6ZKUuPvBa6O7QaawIGIBg&ved=0CD4Q9QEwAg

http://www.renthomas.ca/transportation/a-roundabout-way-of-decreasing-pedestrian-safety

fact is there are loads of debates in relation to roundabouts.

alot of people in the states for instance think roundabouts are dangerous and should be done away with regardless of pedestrains.

it is unsafe and ive said it loads on here.

but if there where speed restrictions it would not be unsafe.

fact is that its not me and the city council. its all over the country and if you dont see that then you obviously dont do much driving either;)

untouchable

DarkJager wrote: »

As the above poster said it's nothing to do with speed, it's the immediate braking required due to the stupid proximity to the roundabout that is the issue. That crossing a further 5-10 metres up the road would be no issue.

As for the speed, it's a road which is used by vehicles. Roads have a speed limit. You cannot honestly expect vehicles to crawl around at 20kph because there might some idiotic pedestrian crossing around a blind corner. Motorists have enough hazards to watch for while driving without one being placed deliberately in their path and out of view.

yea that idiot pedestrain crossing at a PEDESTRIAN CROSSING. pretty much sums up the attitude of drivers in this city

DarkJager

untouchable wrote: »

yea that idiot pedestrain crossing at a PEDESTRIAN CROSSING. pretty much sums up the attitude of drivers in this city

Idiotic pedestrian crossing, not idiotic pedestrian crossing it. Can you read? As for your remark about me not driving much, I travel 3 hours a day and have been driving over 8 years. I've been in numerous cities around Ireland and have yet to see such a dangerous hazard on a roundabout exit as this crossing is.

untouchable

DarkJager wrote: »

Idiotic pedestrian crossing, not idiotic pedestrian crossing it. Can you read? As for your remark about me not driving much, I travel 3 hours a day and have been driving over 8 years. I've been in numerous cities around Ireland and have yet to see such a dangerous hazard on a roundabout exit as this crossing is.

well i travel from limerick to waterford twice a week apart from any other travelling i do. i know that road like the back of my hand

in waterford as your leaving the city. there are pedestrain crossings on all sides of the roundabout bar the bridge side. also in waterford on the outer link road there are a few examples of pedestrian crossings on roundabouts.


in carrick there are 3 examples of this on the route from waterford to limerick

clonmel is FULL of roundabouts with crossings

bansha has one i think

tipp has 3 or 4

limerick junction has a reallllly dangerous one

and finally limerick has very very very few roundabouts that dont have pedestrian crossings

thats just a trip from waterford to limerick

https://maps.google.ie/maps?newwindow=1&hl=en&q=waterford%20to%20limerick%20distance&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wl

aside from that i know that shannon and galway both have loads

Cookiemunster

untouchable wrote: »

http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/need-use-subways-cross-Bear-Pit/story-16450164-detail/story.html

http://www.google.ie/imgres?imgurl=http://international.fhwa.dot.gov/pubs/pl03020/images/fig5_6.jpg&imgrefurl=http://international.fhwa.dot.gov/pubs/pl03020/chp05.cfm&h=345&w=500&sz=189&tbnid=W3wQCXkSw2nwDM:&tbnh=92&tbnw=133&zoom=1&usg=__v-_RjJgHD8wAXRO23xuWtUfixWw=&docid=t2j01WjWBEkuIM&sa=X&ei=H6ZKUuPvBa6O7QaawIGIBg&ved=0CD4Q9QEwAg

http://www.renthomas.ca/transportation/a-roundabout-way-of-decreasing-pedestrian-safety

fact is there are loads of debates in relation to roundabouts.

alot of people in the states for instance think roundabouts are dangerous and should be done away with regardless of pedestrains.

it is unsafe and ive said it loads on here.

but if there where speed restrictions it would not be unsafe.

fact is that its not me and the city council. its all over the country and if you dont see that then you obviously dont do much driving either;)

It's already been stated in this thread that in the UK the crossings have to be between 5-20m from the junction. Here they are 2m from the junction.
That is not safe.

untouchable wrote: »

yea that idiot pedestrain crossing at a PEDESTRIAN CROSSING. pretty much sums up the attitude of drivers in this city

It is idiotic of anyone to blindly step onto a road before looking first. Whether there's a pedestrian crossing or not.
As has been previously stated, if you come around a blind corner at even 20kmph and someone steps in front of you suddenly, you will still have to slam on the brakes and if the road conditions are poor you may not be able to stop.
2m is too close to the junction and is dangerous.

Popoutman

If the crossing is within the braking distance of a car from the exit of the roundabout, the crossing is simply too close to the roundabout. The average driver has enough trouble keeping the situational awareness at a high level regarding the real dangers to themselves on a roundabout (cars/trucks entering). The last thing that you would expect on a roundabout is the car in front slamming heavily on the brakes, especially when monitoring cars coming from the side.

I've seen a large number of small collisions at both the Groody and Kilmurry roundabouts in Castletroy, and I've heard of too many pedestrian-car connections. Putting a pedestrian crossing across three lanes of traffic was a stupid idea, as well as having the crossing so close to the exit.

The ideal situation would be to move the crossing out further from the roundabout. The primary purpose of a roundabout is to facilitate smooth traffic flow - not to provide a pedestrian crossing position. After all - cars are *not* supposed to stop at entry on a roundabout (they are signed for "yield" not for stop..) and this is why they work well, with cars taking safe gaps in the other traffic, ensuring smooth traffic flows, when used properly.

The standard of the average driver's use of roundabout lanes and signalling suggests that the extra mental processing load on the driver is probably a bit too much to allow for safe use - and as such should be accounted for in the road design. How Irish is it to do something wrong this repeatedly? How many deaths will it take before the council design groups make the changes?

steveon

Popoutman wrote: »

If the crossing is within the braking distance of a car from the exit of the roundabout, the crossing is simply too close to the roundabout. The average driver has enough trouble keeping the situational awareness at a high level regarding the real dangers to themselves on a roundabout (cars/trucks entering). The last thing that you would expect on a roundabout is the car in front slamming heavily on the brakes, especially when monitoring cars coming from the side.

I've seen a large number of small collisions at both the Groody and Kilmurry roundabouts in Castletroy, and I've heard of too many pedestrian-car connections. Putting a pedestrian crossing across three lanes of traffic was a stupid idea, as well as having the crossing so close to the exit.

The ideal situation would be to move the crossing out further from the roundabout. The primary purpose of a roundabout is to facilitate smooth traffic flow - not to provide a pedestrian crossing position. After all - cars are *not* supposed to stop at entry on a roundabout (they are signed for "yield" not for stop..) and this is why they work well, with cars taking safe gaps in the other traffic, ensuring smooth traffic flows, when used properly.

The standard of the average driver's use of roundabout lanes and signalling suggests that the extra mental processing load on the driver is probably a bit too much to allow for safe use - and as such should be accounted for in the road design. How Irish is it to do something wrong this repeatedly? How many deaths will it take before the council design groups make the changes?

Totally agree with you, seen lots of crashes as a result of pedestrians running out without looking and running off....no1 is against the crossing just move them back from the roundabout....how some1 hasnt been killed or mamed yet beggers belief...

Also can some1 tell me how the hell a truck is meant to fit between the end of the roundabout and the pedestrian crossing my van barely fits? Its hard enough for a truck to make it across the road in the first place whoever designed the road should be made explain why its the way it is as all over Europe there removing lites and changing these bad designs yet we are putting them in.....is it simply another way of keeping their pals in contracts.???