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University for Kilkenny
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26-09-2013 11:34am#1
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foxcoverteddy wrote: »If we can get private funding, we can do it, think positive, think what it would do for our city, come on we have only just started.
Haha in this day and age who and why is somebody going to fund a uni for Kilkenny?
Its nothing about being positive or negative its about being realistic.
You got your Aldi you damn sure wont get your uni.
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I have already argued in another thread that a university in Kilkenny is an idea which has sailed on the tide of history, and that it is unlikely to happen now, pretty much for the reason which Donnielighto has summarised so succinctly above.
I have also suggested however that there may be opportunities to develop a couple of smaller "centres of excellence", to use the current buzzword, in areas which are a natural "fit" for Kilkenny, such as mediaeval studies and heritage management / tourism, centres which would be linked to a university or universities and which would draw students and researchers to Kilkenny both from Ireland and, certainly in the case of mediaeval studies, from the US and abroad.
I'm going to be slightly lazy and quote myself if you don't mind, rather than trying to re-phrase for the sake of it!randylonghorn wrote: »The brewery site might be a better venue for things like a museum etc.? ... a proper integrated museum and interpretative centre and archives and perhaps even a Centre for Medieval Studies with a third level link (or preferably links, multiple!), catering to serious students and researchers as well as to tourists and to the local community? The little Brewery Museum or Exhibition Hall or whatever they call it is already there to start from as well.randylonghorn wrote: »Yep, Kilkenny actually had (for a period of circa six months) what as far as I am aware would have been the second oldest university in Ireland, after Trinity. The Royal College of St. Canice's was granted a charter by James II in Feb 1690, a Rector and professors appointed, and the then vacant Kilkenny College and its endowments handed over to them. Unfortunately James was better at granting charters than at winning wars, and the Royal College foundered with him without ever enrolling a student.
The Butlers had the idea of handing over Kilkenny Castle and grounds as the site for a university at Kilkenny (before WIT or Carlow IT or any of the IOTs existed, or indeed DCU or UL, and when NUIM was still SPCM and primarily a seminary). The offer wasn't taken up; never very clear why, but I suspect nervousness in official circles at a time when money was scarce and when a far smaller proportion of the population attended university was at least a major part of it. In the end, the Castle was handed over to the city for a nominal sum, and taken into care by the OPW, and while there is no doubt that it has been a tremendous asset to the city ever since, one has to wonder what Kilkenny would be like now if the relevant people had enough courage in the 40s and 50s.
The allocation of the locations for the RTCs, now IoTs, might be seen as another lost opportunity in this respect. [Amending here, as some discussion ensued as to whether Waterford or Carlow was chosen first as an RTC location. While I had always heard the story one way, redtelephone offered some very logical suggestions as to why it was the other way round, and a couple of questions I have asked since would suggest that he has the right of it.] There are many who would argue (and many who are not from Kilkenny, and don't have a bias) that Kilkenny as a central site for the south-east would have made far more sense geographically, and that Kilkenny failed to fight its corner hard enough, a mistake definitely not made by its competitors.
Now? I don't think you need worry about a few thousand pissed-up students tbh. The move in government policy and HEA policy is towards amalgamation and rationalization. I suspect the last thing they want is another new college in Kilkenny doing the same old courses in business and engineering and splitting numbers in Waterford and Carlow and elsewhere still further, and reducing economies of scale.
That's not to say that there couldn't be opportunities in Kilkenny ... both WIT and NUIM already have outreach projects in Kilkenny, the former mainly concerned with research and the latter with teaching, mainly adult education / part-time courses but this year for the first time they are taking full-time students for first year of their arts degree as a pilot project, with students completing second and third year on the main campus in Maynooth. If you think about it, that's an opportunity for local families to make very significant savings in these recessionary times; the USI estimate that the cost of accommodation / travel etc. for a student who has to study away from home is in the order of 4 - 5,000 euro p.a.
Any move towards the establishment of a University of the South-East might also have benefits for Kilkenny; I'm sure Phil Hogan would hope so anyway, he could do with some good press!
But a new, large college or campus mirroring and repeating existing provision elsewhere? That's goes against all policy and seems unlikely.
Far better to look for opportunities to do different things, and things which build on the existing strengths of Kilkenny. To me, a Centre or Institute for Mediaeval Studies with links with universities here, in the US and on the continent might be one of those. A place where researchers, or postgraduate or even undergraduate students, might come to study for a semester or a year. Kilkenny has such a rich history and archaeology in this respect, and a surviving archaeology more importantly, and is a perfect venue for such a project.
Given that, and with the Heritage Council located here, heritage tourism and general heritage management might be another appropriate focus in Kilkenny. Traditional and modern crafts is another, and one which the Crafts Council are working hard to foster even now.
And all of these things feed into heritage tourism, which is already very important for tourism and the economy in Kilkenny and in Ireland, and I suspect will become even more important. Let's face it: Ireland isn't exactly a reliable venue for sun holidays. We need to concentrate on selling points which are uniquely ours in order to fill all those hotels built during the Diseased Celtic Tiger! :pac:
Which kinda brings us back round to our starting point, and why it's so important to be careful with all planning and development in terms of Kilkenny's historic built environment. These decisions aren't just for tomorrow or next year, they will impact for generations.
I fully agree that it would be far more strategic to concentrate on this approach.The best Kilkenny can probably do is develop themes with already existing Institutions.
So putting through adult students in part-time courses, leading to something like 1,500 awards being conferred over the years ranging from Certificate level to PhD isn't useful?!I can see the one with NUI Maynooth finally developing into something useful as they are now starting to base part of some full time degree courses in Arts in Kilkenny.
Here we would disagree; but then I would strongly espouse the idea that third-level education shouldn't just be an option at 17 / 18, and if for whatever reason you miss the boat at that age, that's it.0 -
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