Don't blame the foreigners, improve coaching! - Patrick Vieira

DenMan

Good man Patrick. Well said!!!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24281033

Dempsey

He's stated the obvious.

The English FA will just build another St. Georges Park in the Midlands to help deal with the issue...

greendom

Dempsey wrote: »

He's stated the obvious.

The English FA will just build another St. Georges Park in the Midlands to help deal with the issue...

I think he's countering the widely held view that the number of foreigners in the EPL is hampering the national team

Dempsey

greendom wrote: »

I think he's countering the widely held view that the number of foreigners in the EPL is hampering the national team

What do you think I said?

My criticism is that the FA's long term strategy for dealing with the coaching issue was to embark on over budget, behind schedule infrastructure projects that only, at best, scratch the surface of the issues at grass roots level in their country.

cournioni

Not sure how accurate these figures are but I saw similar figures on Sky Sports News not so long ago. These are the ratios of UEFA qualified coaches according to soccerbythenumbers.com:

Spain 1:17
Italy 1:48
France 1:96
Germany 1:150
Greece 1:135
England 1:812

Looking at that, its no wonder England are struggling to produce players compared to other countries.

Dempsey

Any numbers out there for the coaching numbers in Ireland?

valor

those ratios are to active players, not people, I was confused for a second and thought it meant 2 million UEFA coaches in Spain..

Mr_A

Ireland has 141 A and PRO coaches according to this: http://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/...6_DOWNLOAD.pdf

I found a figure of "over 180000" for participation here: http://www.ndc.ie/news/school-programme-launched.asp this gives a ratio of 1276:1. I get the impression this didn't include five a sides. "Today, over 180 000 people play football in Irish football clubs and schools"

If you include 5 a side players the ratio goes over 2000:1.

Basically: Irish football is way, way behind the curve.

keeponhurling

Or we have lots of coaches who are not UEFA qualified?

chupacabra

Reading his name as Patrick Viera made me smile.

Dempsey

keeponhurling wrote: »

Or we have lots of coaches who are not UEFA qualified?

Ah yes, the 2 laps, a stretch and a match brigade every training session. They arent worth counting tbh

The_Kew_Tour

No **** Sherlock Patrick.

keeponhurling

Dempsey wrote: »

Ah yes, the 2 laps, a stretch and a match brigade every training session. They arent worth counting tbh

No 4 laps.
2 at the start and 2 at the end of the session.

But seriously, even for a good coach what is the motivation for getting a UEFA badge unless they have higher aspirations? And also is there a cost involved, which the individual or club needs to pay?

losthorizon

Mr_A wrote: »

Ireland has 141 A and PRO coaches according to this: http://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/...6_DOWNLOAD.pdf

I found a figure of "over 180000" for participation here: http://www.ndc.ie/news/school-programme-launched.asp this gives a ratio of 1276:1. I get the impression this didn't include five a sides. "Today, over 180 000 people play football in Irish football clubs and schools"

If you include 5 a side players the ratio goes over 2000:1.

Basically: Irish football is way, way behind the curve.

Apparently we have actually

488 B Licence (which you didnt mention)

183 A Licence

and 19 Pro Licence

It takes 750 hours to get a Pro licence in Spain. 245 in Ireland and England.

Running around like a lunatic only gets you so far.

http://www.thecoachdiary.com/ireland-small-sided-game-is-in-self-destruct-mode/

ArmaniJeanss

UEFA License is financially difficult to get - mate of mine (U18 coach with one of the top Dublin schoolboy sides) looked into the A-License process and reckoned €11,000 as a fee just for doing the course and sitting the exam.
With the best will in the world he just couldn't justify it.
I'm guessing the Spanish must have a scheme whereby their FA subsidise it or else they get a huge bulk reduction.

Regarding the English theres little doubt that its only in the last 5/6 years that the concept of the UEFA license have been accepted, up to then there was a mix of disdain 'look at UEFA messing about with their silly bits of paper' and hostility 'how dare some beauracrats tell us that Gareth Southgate cant become a manager until he does a stupid exam, sure hes played 50 times for England'.

764dak

losthorizon wrote: »

Apparently we have actually

488 B Licence (which you didnt mention)

183 A Licence

and 19 Pro Licence

It takes 750 hours to get a Pro licence in Spain. 245 in Ireland and England.

Running around like a lunatic only gets you so far.

http://www.thecoachdiary.com/ireland-small-sided-game-is-in-self-destruct-mode/

From the URL you posted:

"Grassroots coaching philosophy:
Too many small sided games managers and coaches believe that the judgement of how good they are as a coach is determined by how many games their team wins.
Where as in many other countries, the emphasis is on Technical development, Ball retention, Players abilities and not winning games for league results."

I don't like this view. The object of any game is to win.

Look at this:

http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/90001/90779/90871/7453859.html

"We are good because of the structure and because of the way we think as a country. We always stick to our plan in developing football. From the Under 15 team to the Under 21's. The aim of the game must always be winning, even for the Under 8 kids," Van Zwam explained.

Dempsey

764dak wrote: »

From the URL you posted:


I don't like this view. The object of any game is to win.

Look at this:

http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/90001/90779/90871/7453859.html

read the next paragraph of that article

its the same philosophy

764dak

Dempsey wrote: »

read the next paragraph of that article

its the same philosophy

Yeah, you're right but it just seems that they want to take out the winning aspect out of youth competition.

Dempsey

764dak wrote: »

Yeah, you're right but it just seems that they want to take out the winning aspect out of youth competition.

At underage, they are saying technical development is a higher priority than winning not taking it out completely. They are certainly ahead of the british and irish for developing senior players so it has merit

764dak

764dak wrote: »

Yeah, you're right but it just seems that they want to take out the winning aspect out of youth competition.

In youth competition the kids are all at different stages of development and if winning is the only important thing then the early developers will be chosen to focus on. Get the lads who'll bomb up and down all day and shield the ball, best chance to win!
Then when they hit the late teens the smaller guys have caught up but missed out on 4 years of proper coaching so won't reach their full potential. The big, strong lads meanwhile have just be coached for more of the same.

Kids' football is for the kids, not the the coach. Obviously there's parents and coaches who want to live through their kids' under-12s exploits but they're not who count.

764dak

Hang on, the article I posted was about Ajax's youth academy. Couldn't a team like Chelsea or Man City just import youth coaches and their techniques from overseas?

keeponhurling

Given that far less people people play soccer here than say, England or Spain, due to both small population and influence of GAA sports,rugby etc. haven't quite a few good players come through our Irish ranks?
I'm thinking Roy Keane, Paul McGrath, Kevin Moran, John O'Shea but even lads who moved over to England early such as Robbie Keane or Duff. They must have been doing something right or they wouldn't have been spotted.

The reason LOI isn't any good is due to lack of money, any good talents will inevitably leave to make a better future for themselves.

Dempsey

keeponhurling wrote: »

Given that far less people people play soccer here than say, England or Spain, due to both small population and influence of GAA sports,rugby etc. haven't quite a few good players come through our Irish ranks?
I'm thinking Roy Keane, Paul McGrath, Kevin Moran, John O'Shea but even lads who moved over to England early such as Robbie Keane or Duff. They must have been doing something right or they wouldn't have been spotted.

The reason LOI isn't any good is due to lack of money, any good talents will inevitably leave to make a better future for themselves.

Plenty of talented kids move to England are back 2 years later playing junior football because they went off the rails in their spare time over there. Having another country develop most of your players leads to a high rate of attrition.