Cluxton: The greatest Goalkeeper of all time?

Dots1982

I find that a lot of fans don't rate Cluxton all that highly and think he is overrated.

I find this a questionable attitude given the span of his career and how he has redefined the position like Donal Og did in Hurling.

He was the first goalkeeper to aim kickouts accurately rather kicking the ball into the middle of the field and letting the big men sort it out. He kicks frees before any other goalkeeper. At least 10% of them do it now but he is better than all of them. He's a good shotstopper and is very comfortable on the ball and leaving his goal to fist a high ball away.

The most impressive thing for me is his distribution is exceptional and before every Dublin game this season a huge point of discussion was how the opposition would combat his kickouts.

Personally I think an Anti-Dub attitude is behind this and I'm not from Dublin.

So the best ever?

Moneymaker

Yes. You pretty much summed it up.

MfMan

Dots1982 wrote: »

Personally I think an Anti-Dub attitude is behind this and I'm not from Dublin.

So the best ever?

Unquestionably the dourest and least empathetic.

WhatNowForUs?

Up to about 3 years ago I would have put John O'Leary as the best however Clux has taken it up another couple of levels since.

Mountainlad

No doubt he's quality. Not sure what I give him that praise though. Lot of quwstions over what he was doing for Andy Moran's goal.

adocholiday

One thing I'll say about him taking frees is the added time it takes. My father worked out (don't ask, he loves this kind of thing...) that for Cluxton to take the free/45 it takes an extra 20 seconds or something than it would for a player near the ball. Now if Cluxton was to kick 10 frees/45's in a game that's an additional 200 seconds, which is 3.3 minutes. How valuable have those 3 minutes been to the Dub's over the past few years!

Great goalkeeper though

Mushy

I dont think he was great this season, bar his shotstopping. Dont know what got into him. Still would rather him in my team!

Innish_Rebel

Don't get me wrong - excellent keeper, shot stopper and kick-outs (& the frees are a bonus). But greatest ever... Was it just me or in the semi against Kerry when the only way Kerry could get back in the game was to score a goal he made a long solo run up the field and twice risked losing possession - I know he was fouled afterwards - but a totally unnecessary risk to take... Also I though he was a bit in no-mans-land for the Mayo goal in the final...

Excellent Keeper - yes. Greatest ever - for me no...

Lemlin

adocholiday wrote: »

One thing I'll say about him taking frees is the added time it takes. My father worked out (don't ask, he loves this kind of thing...) that for Cluxton to take the free/45 it takes an extra 20 seconds or something than it would for a player near the ball. Now if Cluxton was to kick 10 frees/45's in a game that's an additional 200 seconds, which is 3.3 minutes. How valuable have those 3 minutes been to the Dub's over the past few years!

Great goalkeeper though

So your father watches The Sunday game and took note of the statistics Ciaran Whelan had earlier in the season?

adocholiday

Lemlin wrote: »

So your father watches The Sunday game and took note of the statistics Ciaran Whelan had earlier in the season?

Possibly that... I don't watch any of that punditry so I thought that he worked it out. Sorry for misleading anyone about my da's skills in statistical analysis!

sid waddell

Innish_Rebel wrote: »

Don't get me wrong - excellent keeper, shot stopper and kick-outs (& the frees are a bonus). But greatest ever... Was it just me or in the semi against Kerry when the only way Kerry could get back in the game was to score a goal he made a long solo run up the field and twice risked losing possession - I know he was fouled afterwards - but a totally unnecessary risk to take... Also I though he was a bit in no-mans-land for the Mayo goal in the final...

Excellent Keeper - yes. Greatest ever - for me no...

Name a better goalkeeper.

The_Honeybadger

His accuracy from kickouts is invaluable to his team and he is extremely good at all aspects of his trade. One of the very best ever if not the best. Don't understand myself why others don't rate him. On the time wasting thing, it is an excellent tactic towards the end of tight games where they have an advantage, up to the referee to add time if needed but they usually don't as far as I remember.

mickmackey1

One of the technically finest strikers of a football I've seen... definitely a few fish short of a hatstand tho :pac:

Pandiani

Dots1982 wrote: »

He kicks frees before any other goalkeeper.

Brian Scanlon from Limerick was kicking frees before Cluxton ever did for Dublin. Obviously not saying Scanlon is better but it annoys me when people say Cluxton was the first keeper to satrt to come up to take them.

ProudDUB

Every other county is perfectly free to use their goalkeeper to take their long range frees, if they so choose. Dublin are not practicing some sneaky, devious trick by having their own one do it. He is simply the best man on the team at kicking the ball from distance. I'm actually quite surprised that more counties don't implement the same system. You'd think that more counties would use the man who spends his working day kicking the ball out a long distance, would also use him to kick the long range frees.

Tyrone started to do it this year when they found Niall Morgan. They used him to take their frees to great success, until he got injured. Yet you don't see people calling foul on Mickey Harte & Niall Morgan for time wasting. And as for those 3.3 minutes, it is up to both teams to use it as they will. It's not as if the ball is handed back into Dublin's hands for the full 3 minutes and no one else is allowed touch it.

All hail King Stephen The Great !

Joekers

adocholiday wrote: »

One thing I'll say about him taking frees is the added time it takes. My father worked out (don't ask, he loves this kind of thing...) that for Cluxton to take the free/45 it takes an extra 20 seconds or something than it would for a player near the ball. Now if Cluxton was to kick 10 frees/45's in a game that's an additional 200 seconds, which is 3.3 minutes. How valuable have those 3 minutes been to the Dub's over the past few years!

Great goalkeeper though

Sure COC took 40 seconds each time on two separate frees on Sunday imagine how valuable that 1 minute and 20 seconds would have been to Mayo giving the fact that they feel aggrieved that another play wasn't allowed to develop after 4 minutes and 30 seconds of injury time had already played

Howard Juneau

Best goalkeeper of the last 10 years, nothing more than that.

Dots1982

Howard Juneau wrote: »

Best goalkeeper of the last 10 years, nothing more than that.

Who's better over the past twenty years?

eoferrall

adocholiday wrote: »

One thing I'll say about him taking frees is the added time it takes. My father worked out (don't ask, he loves this kind of thing...) that for Cluxton to take the free/45 it takes an extra 20 seconds or something than it would for a player near the ball. Now if Cluxton was to kick 10 frees/45's in a game that's an additional 200 seconds, which is 3.3 minutes. How valuable have those 3 minutes been to the Dub's over the past few years!

Great goalkeeper though

Not sure about that though? other take just as long.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/time-on-cluxtons-side-when-it-comes-to-long-range-frees-238918.html

Moneymaker

I love how the people who say he's not have not in their arguments said why or even mentioned one name of someone who's better and why they are.

MfMan wrote: »

Unquestionably the dourest and least empathetic.

And that has what to do with the question, exactly?

Hammer Archer

Howard Juneau wrote: »

Best goalkeeper of the last 10 years, nothing more than that.

Gary Connaughton was a better keeper in my opinion. Had a much worse team in front of him too which meant he was called upon much more often. People going on about his distribution, it's usually good, but when a team pressurises the kickouts, he can make some bad mistakes with them.
Also, I wouldn't take him scoring frees into account when comparing him with the quality of other keepers.

Dots1982

Hammer Archer wrote: »

Also, I wouldn't take him scoring frees into account when comparing him with the quality of other keepers.

Can you explain this? I would have thought the measure of a player is what an asset he is to his team?

premierstone

sid waddell wrote: »

Name a better goalkeeper.

Dots1982 wrote: »

Who's better over the past twenty years?

Why are ye so defensive lads, its peoples opinions thats all, nothing at stake, relax!!

For the record I would rate all of these as better or at least on a par - Martin Furlong, Gary Connaughton, John O'Leary, Billy Morgan, Paddy Cullen, Diarmuid Murphy and John Kearns.

I also agree with some of the comments earlier that he actually had a relatively poor year this year, going by his own high standards of course.

Moneymaker

Hammer Archer wrote: »

Gary Connaughton was a better keeper in my opinion. Had a much worse team in front of him too which meant he was called upon much more often. People going on about his distribution, it's usually good, but when a team pressurises the kickouts, he can make some bad mistakes with them.
Also, I wouldn't take him scoring frees into account when comparing him with the quality of other keepers.

You wouldn't take into account a player that can convert long range frees under pressure?

Ok...

Also, poor year and he will most likely win yet another All-Star. He's set the bar higher then any goalkeeper that has come before him.

seanl77

Cluxton is a superb keeper, but would agree with the previous poster that this year certainly wasn't his best. Seems to make more strange decisions these days, like passing the short ball to marked players or coming way too far off his line to get involved in play. Always thought Charlie nelligan was the best goalie I've seen, fantastic shot stopper and brave as a lion as well. Different eras though, goalies are much better protected by refs in the modern game

bo-sco

MfMan wrote: »

Unquestionably the dourest and least empathetic.

Do you know what empathetic means?

Howard Juneau

Moneymaker wrote: »

You wouldn't take into account a player that can convert long range frees under pressure?

Ok...

Also, poor year and he will most likely win yet another All-Star. He's set the bar higher then any goalkeeper that has come before him.

Hyperbole

Dots1982

seanl77 wrote: »

Cluxton is a superb keeper, but would agree with the previous poster that this year certainly wasn't his best. Seems to make more strange decisions these days, like passing the short ball to marked players QUOTE]

His job is being made more difficult by teams tailoring their tactics to combat his influence.

A high compliment IMO.

seanl77

Dots1982 wrote: »

seanl77 wrote: »

Cluxton is a superb keeper, but would agree with the previous poster that this year certainly wasn't his best. Seems to make more strange decisions these days, like passing the short ball to marked players QUOTE]

His job is being made more difficult by teams tailoring their tactics to combat his influence.

A high compliment IMO.

seanl77

seanl77 wrote: »

Dots1982 wrote: »

It may be a compliment, but short passing to a marked player still isn't a great idea! No need for cluxton to do it, his left foot is like radar, he can pick anyone off within 50 yards no problem. Why give it short when its not on?

Dirty Dingus McGee

Mountainlad wrote: »

No doubt he's quality. Not sure what I give him that praise though. Lot of quwstions over what he was doing for Andy Moran's goal.

That goal wasnt his fault,the defender who let Andy Moran in behind has to take the blame, if anything coming of his line made Morans job a bit more difficult

Trampas

adocholiday wrote: »

One thing I'll say about him taking frees is the added time it takes. My father worked out (don't ask, he loves this kind of thing...) that for Cluxton to take the free/45 it takes an extra 20 seconds or something than it would for a player near the ball. Now if Cluxton was to kick 10 frees/45's in a game that's an additional 200 seconds, which is 3.3 minutes. How valuable have those 3 minutes been to the Dub's over the past few years!

Great goalkeeper though

While the player beside the ball spends 30 seconds bouncing the ball. 15 seconds scratching his ...... another 15 seconds doing his Johnny Wilkinson impression. Never mind time he takes having a drink, getting to the ball, waiting for defenders to move back.

One thing about Stephen is when gets up to the ball. He is probably the quickest person to place ball and kick it towards the posts.

As said already more teams are doing it but nothing is said.

Godge

At time of writing, the poll is 19 for Cluxton, 26 against.

Quite remarkable, considering the continual 31 against Dublin agenda in here and the myriad other options to choose from. If you were to do a poll like the general election where transfers counted, I would back him to finish on top.

Jake Rugby Walrus666

adocholiday wrote: »

How valuable have those 3 minutes been to the Dub's over the past few years!

Why would it be an advantage to Dublin to have the game shorter?

Is this a grand scheme worked out before hand - lads if we reduce the game of football to a 65 minute game as opposed to a 70 mins how can we lose

I can understand accusations of time wasting of all sorts at a particular time late in a particular match if one team happens to be ahead (Although more often than not Dublin are having their best spell later in games this year) but why would Dublin set out ahead of time to try and shorten a match.

Moneymaker

Howard Juneau wrote: »

Hyperbole

Kicking the winning score in an All-Ireland final is hyperbole?

Dirty Dingus McGee

premierstone wrote: »

Why are ye so defensive lads, its peoples opinions thats all, nothing at stake, relax!!

For the record I would rate all of these as better or at least on a par - Martin Furlong, Gary Connaughton, John O'Leary, Billy Morgan, Paddy Cullen, Diarmuid Murphy and John Kearns.

I also agree with some of the comments earlier that he actually had a relatively poor year this year, going by his own high standards of course.

Furlong kickouts wrent great , I dont think he took the kickouts for most of his career so he would have to be excluded although everywhere else he was brilliant.

Up to 10 years ago most goalies just drove the ball down the middle as far as they could, there was very little variation in kickouts.Cluxton by being so brilliant with his shorter kickouts has brought a new dimension to the game and made other teams stand take notice and demand more from their goalkeeper.He is brilliant at dealing with high balls into his square, a top class shotstopper, he is best goalie I have seen at coming off his line narrowing the angle and making a goal chance impossible.Add to this he is one of the country's best freetakers aswell.

The reason why I rate Cluxton as the greatest goalie is I don't think anyone could honestly name a goalie who has such an influence on his teams overall game as Cluxton has.

Dots1982

One thing slightly off topic I find funny is people not liking Cluxton because of his cold demeanour and drive yet Roy Keane was a national hero partly for it.

Big Game

Innish_Rebel wrote: »

Don't get me wrong - excellent keeper, shot stopper and kick-outs (& the frees are a bonus). But greatest ever... Was it just me or in the semi against Kerry when the only way Kerry could get back in the game was to score a goal he made a long solo run up the field and twice risked losing possession - I know he was fouled afterwards - but a totally unnecessary risk to take... Also I though he was a bit in no-mans-land for the Mayo goal in the final...

Excellent Keeper - yes. Greatest ever - for me no...

Fair points. He did the same in the semi in 2007 when Dublin had pulled Kerry's lead back to a point with about 3 minutes left and had all the momentum, ran too far from his goal, lost possesion and suddenly it was a 2 point game again and Kerry were able to regroup and close it out. Still think had Dublin gone level that day they'd have won, Kerry were hanging on and desperate for a score having seen a 6 point lead slip and they were handed one.

That said, you'll never be able to show me a keeper who hasn't made mistakes during his career, he's a great shot stopped, more consistent than most so adding that to his kick out accuracy, his free taking and the way he's redefined the position I think he has to be noted as the best ever, yes.

Fiery biscuits

I'm in my early twenties and I would say of all the years I've been watching football, Cluxton is the best goalkeeper. I can't comment on whether he is the best ever as I don't know enough about others before him.

Cluxton offered/offers more than any other keeper of his generation. He can put a ball into the hands of a teammate consistently from kickouts. He is good under a high ball, good shot-stopper (fair enough he perhaps could have done better with some this year but so could have most others and dublin gameplay left them slightly more exposed at the back), he controls his defense well, sweeps up well behind and is comfortable with ball in hand, his character is exemplary and he is a serious free taker.

Cluxton ticks all the boxes for me and he created some new boxes to be ticked/took them to a higher level of accuracy.

MfMan

bo-sco wrote: »

Do you know what empathetic means?

Yes. Do you?

DellyBelly

I'd have to say yes. Also he has really changed how football is being played. Goalkeepers never took free's until he started doing it and now it seems every other team is copying him. A bit of a trailblazer

Howard Juneau

Moneymaker wrote: »

Kicking the winning score in an All-Ireland final is hyperbole?

No, that's irrelevant.

Slattsy

Yes definately, still years left in him too.
He'll go down as one of the greats. Shot-stopping ability is second to none over the years.

Can someone do a montage?

Even Rocky had a montage.

Moneymaker

Howard Juneau wrote: »

No, that's irrelevant.

How?

We're talking greatest of all time.

All the great players are defined by their ability to perform under pressure.

He kicked a match winning score in the biggest game of 2011. He kicked two valuable frees on Sunday under pressure.

Time after time he finds his man with kick outs when 99.999% of other keepers boot it down the middle and hope the midfielders win it.

Foot passing is one of the great skills of the game and he excels at it. Good shot stopper, good under the high ball and multiple All-Star winner and now All-Ireland medal winner. He has kicked 43 points in Championship football, many of them vital scores.

Brianderunner

I don't buy this shot stopper thing. Kerry walked 3 goals past him without much of a fight. Most of his saves down the years have been straight at him prompting the biased Darragh Moloney to go "oh, great save from Cluxton".

Take Anthony Nash, now there's a shot stopper, albeit in hurling rather than football.

As regards everything else, yes is he is up there with the best ever.

Dots1982

I’d say in the 70’s if you said Charlie Nelligan was the best goalkeeper ever people would dispute that and say such and such in the 40s was the best ever. In 30 years time there’ll probably be a goalkeeper better than cluxton but people will say Cluxton was better. It’s just the way sports fans are.


I think Cluxton’s status as the best ever is almost indisputable but on the vote I’m in the minority.

Howard Juneau

Dots1982 wrote: »

I’d say in the 70’s if you said Charlie Nelligan was the best goalkeeper ever people would dispute that and say such and such in the 40s was the best ever. In 30 years time there’ll probably be a goalkeeper better than cluxton but people will say Cluxton was better. It’s just the way sports fans are.


I think Cluxton’s status as the best ever is almost indisputable but on the vote I’m in the minority.

You seem unable to distinguish between "indisputable" & "opinion"

premierstone

Godge wrote: »

At time of writing, the poll is 19 for Cluxton, 26 against.

Quite remarkable, considering the continual 31 against Dublin agenda in here and the myriad other options to choose from. If you were to do a poll like the general election where transfers counted, I would back him to finish on top.

This would be true if a) you could prove this anti Dublin agenda you speak of and b) there was only one person allowed vote from each county and c) each county actually voted

I have a feeling if Mayo had won on Sunday or if the poll was done around January the margin might be a bit bigger.

bo-sco

MfMan wrote: »

Yes. Do you?

The irony here is that you seem to be showing a complete lack of empathy towards Cluxton himself.

But of course you'll realise this as you know what it means.

premierstone

bo-sco wrote: »

The irony here is that you seem to be showing a complete lack of empathy towards Cluxton himself.

But of course you'll realise this as you know what it means.

Do you understand the meaning of Irony??

As surely MfMan's claim would only be ironic if he himself was a top goalkeeper who people were claiming as the greatest of all time

Hammer Archer

Moneymaker wrote: »

You wouldn't take into account a player that can convert long range frees under pressure?

Ok...

Because that's not a quality that's essential in a keeper. Shot stopping, fielding under pressure, distribution, command of his back line (among others) would all come lightyears ahead of free taking if I was looking at keepers. I think Connaughton in his prime was better than Cluxton at 3 of these 4 attributes (with Cluxton obviously being better at distribution).
Unfortunately for him, the Westmeath players in front of him in his prime were (bar a few exceptions) nowhere close to the quality of players Cluxton has had in front of him which is probably why he doesn't get as much recognition as being a fantastic keeper.