Cluxton: The greatest Goalkeeper of all time?

Darkest Horse

MfMan wrote: »

Unquestionably the dourest and least empathetic.

A little harsh I think. He is a naturally quiet guy who seems to be shy to the public eye. Nothing more or less. Ironically, wasn't he nominated for RTE sports personality of the year one year?

Dirty Dingus McGee

Brianderunner wrote: »

I don't buy this shot stopper thing. Kerry walked 3 goals past him without much of a fight. Most of his saves down the years have been straight at him prompting the biased Darragh Moloney to go "oh, great save from Cluxton".

Take Anthony Nash, now there's a shot stopper, albeit in hurling rather than football.

As regards everything else, yes is he is up there with the best ever.

He couldnt really do anything about those goals in fairness, the players were clean through one one one with him on each occassion you can't blame the goalie for those goals.

Also shot stopping isn't the most important aspect of goalkeeping these days as forward generally only shot for goal when they are clean through a a goal is almost certain, most goals in Gaelic football these days no goalkeeper would stop them and Cluxton is as good a shot stopper as there is in the game at the moment.

Cluxton has a better clean sheet ratio than John O'Leary had and considering how terrible Dublins defence was for a good while that is a pretty decent achivement.

bo-sco

premierstone wrote: »

Do you understand the meaning of Irony??

As surely MfMan's claim would only be ironic if he himself was a top goalkeeper who people were claiming as the greatest of all time

It's clearly ironic because he is criticising someone for lacking empathy therefore showing a complete lack of empathy himself.

Notwithstanding that it's obviously a ridiculous comment to make about an individual he knows nothing about.

themandan6611

punched mcateer too, obviously the best

Lemlin

Surprised nobody remembers 03 against Armagh when Dublin were in control until he stupidly got sent off for a sly dig at Stevie McDonnell.

ProudDUB

Calling someone dour and lacking in empathy, when you have never actually met them, is complete bullcrap imo. Cluxton does not like the spot light, or having cameras and microphones shoved in front of his face. That does not make him dour or lacking in empathy. Throw a bunch of kids in front of him who just want a picture or an autograph, and he is the nicest, warmest guy you could possibly meet, full of smiles and chat. I know because I've seen it with my own two eyes.

MfMan

ProudDUB wrote: »

Calling someone dour and lacking in empathy, when you have never actually met them, is complete bullcrap imo. Cluxton does not like the spot light, or having cameras and microphones shoved in front of his face. That does not make him dour or lacking in empathy. Throw a bunch of kids in front of him who just want a picture or an autograph, and he is the nicest, warmest guy you could possibly meet, full of smiles and chat. I know because I've seen it with my own two eyes.

I stand corrected.

The question of whether it's possible to show empathy to one who has none sounds like a contradiction in terms and is perhaps worthy of debate at a more abstract level. !!

markomuscle

MfMan wrote: »

Unquestionably the dourest and least empathetic.

what has his personality got to do with it? or do you think all sportsmen have to have one standard personality?

Moneymaker

Hammer Archer wrote: »

Because that's not a quality that's essential in a keeper. Shot stopping, fielding under pressure, distribution, command of his back line (among others) would all come lightyears ahead of free taking if I was looking at keepers. I think Connaughton in his prime was better than Cluxton at 3 of these 4 attributes (with Cluxton obviously being better at distribution).
Unfortunately for him, the Westmeath players in front of him in his prime were (bar a few exceptions) nowhere close to the quality of players Cluxton has had in front of him which is probably why he doesn't get as much recognition as being a fantastic keeper.

Connaughton was a fine keeper no doubt. Cluxton brings more to the table and is more well rounded for my money.

And the ability to kick long range frees is invaluable imo as it opens up a lot more options as to what outfield players can be selected. He may not have been the first keeper to kick frees but he's certainly the most effective.

As for Hurling, Nash could well become one of the finest keeper of all time, I was supremely impressed with his display against us in the semi final, precision puck outs, good under the high ball and he hit 3 frees right over the black spot from over 100 yards.

King Cantona

I think it´s fair to say he, along with his management teams, especially since Gilroy/ Whelan came on board, has redefined the goalkeepers role in football.

Dublin have a goalkeeper than can turn an (arguable) 50/50 chance at possession from a goalkick into a 85% chance of your team winning the ball, it makes such a difference.

Added to that, he routinely kicks long distance kicks with a low % of misses.

When you look at these statistics and then think back to the final (won by 1 point), Semi - Final - ties scored until the 68th minute. Then take into consideration he was one of Dublin´s top scorers in the championship it´s remarkable that people don´t rate him.

Fine margins win games - Cluxton is a percentages keeper. There are undoubtedly better shot stoppers in the game (but he´s not a "bad one" - he´s a more than capable shot stopper, there are more physical keepers (but he´s non a wimp - he´s clocked Jason McAteer ), there´s lads can do a better speech than him, but there is no better all round keeper in the GAA, and none as important to thier team as Cluxton. I don´t think there ever was.

There´s a retired ex Ireland u21 international, ex- professional (Ipswich Town) goalkeeper sitting on the bench behind Cluxton - if goalkeeping was only about catching high balls and making shot stopping saves, Shane Supple would be Dublin´s no.1 and potentially a top GAA keeper in the country.

Thankfully, we have had two management teams in place that recognise Cluxton´s importance to the game and his influence winning two AIs.

keane2097

Best I've seen handily. Done changed the game yo.

premierstone

King Cantona wrote: »

it´s remarkable that people don´t rate him.

Who doesn't rate him?? Stop making stuff up here, not one person has said he was a poor keeper or anything even remotely close to that, the discussion is whether he is the best of all time, anyone who says no is not saying they don't rate him, thats redicilous.

BPKS

He has changed the way the game played in that the opposition forwards, midfield and half backs now have to mark shirt-tight as soon as the ball goes over the bar or wide. That takes massive energy and concentration. At some stage in the 75 minutes those energy levels and concentration is going to wane.

Now the non-Dubs here can crib and say the rules are being broken by Dublin having their own personal ball-boy in Croke Park with a ball in his hand standing just behind the umpire and they would be correct. The rules allow for just two water-men for 15 players but the Dublin goalkeeper in Croke Park gets handed a ball as soon as it goes out of play. But you play to what you can get away with and theres no doubt the kick-outs have been a major part of Dublins armoury in recent years.

I remember Cluxton being crucified after kicking a ball from his hands straight to a Kerry player in the 2007 semi final. It took balls to do what he did that day and it takes balls (and huge amount of practice) to be able to manage his kickouts like he does today. One cannot but admire the guy more that.

Personally I don't like the guy (what he did with the ball after Tomas O Se went to the bother of handing to him after the 2011 final and his speech the last day just make him unlikeable from a neutral point of view). But I have never seen a better keeper than him.

Lemlin

Cavan goalkeeper Conor Gilsenen is the spit of Fran from Love/Hate, and he takes frees as well.

Surely that makes him the best ever.

JessePinkman

Danno O Keefe is often noted as the best ever,Charlie Nelligan was in the top bracket of goalkeepers for a long time and played soccer at a high level too any man with 7 All Ireland medals cant be dissmissed.Billy Morgan and Martin Furlong who i think was also penalty taker for his club are the only keepers to have won POTY so that goes to show how highly regarded they were.

John O Leary was always my favorite goalkeeper that i have seen play he had all the attributes,Cluxton is a top drawer keeper not without his flaws but i don't think i've seen a keeper add so much to a team.

Mentions must go to Paddy Cullen who has 4 All Stars,Diarmuid Murphy and Declan O Keefe

Cluxton Best ever? Can't say that he is or not,Best i have ever seen? Yes

Amprodude

Cluxton? Greatest keeper of all time? Oh my god.

Morte

He's the first of a new breed of keepers we are going to see. It's a natural progression of the goalie's role, borrowing heavily from Donal Og in hurling and soccer goalies before him. This probably does make him the best ever in some ways as he's the keeper who adds the most to the team.

King Cantona wrote: »

Fine margins win games - Cluxton is a percentages keeper. There are undoubtedly better shot stoppers in the game (but he´s not a "bad one" - he´s a more than capable shot stopper, there are more physical keepers (but he´s non a wimp - he´s clocked Jason McAteer ), there´s lads can do a better speech than him, but there is no better all round keeper in the GAA, and none as important to thier team as Cluxton. I don´t think there ever was.

This is the thing though. In years to come the notion of a keeper NOT playing like Cluxton would seem bizarre. Like how we have a wry smile at soccer goalies in old clips just booting the ball down as soon as they get it. In hurling the young keepers already coming through are obviously showing aspects of Donal Og's play. In this sense there will be keepers in the future who can playmake like Cluxton who are also fantastic shot stoppers and great in the air. So Cluxton may come to be viewed as a landmark rather than the best ever. That said, Cluxton is a great all round keeper. I'd rate him higher than Donal Og in his respective standing in the game.

premierstone

Morte wrote: »

That said, Cluxton is a great all round keeper. I'd rate him higher than Donal Og in his respective standing in the game.

Thats fair enough and I'd agree with alot of what you said but Donal Og isn't even considered by many to be the best keeper of his generation never mind the best of all time.

Stoner

Tbh I always thought that the non dubs just said Dublin keepers were good so that they could say their best ever 15 had a Dub on it

But his second half performance in the final and the fact that he has kicked the winning point in two all irelands, if he's not the best ever who is and on what grounds.

JessePinkman

Stoner wrote: »

if he's not the best ever who is and on what grounds.

Danno O Keefe back in the day played in 10 All Ireland Finals and has 13 Munster medals,Named on Team of the millennium,Billy Morgan the first goalie ever to be crowned POTY,Martin Furlong 4 All Stars and 3 AI medals POTY in 82 as well ,Paddy Cullen 4 All Stars,Charlie Nelligan gave 15 years between the sticks for Kerry and bagged 7 All Irelands and a handful of all stars,John O Leary 15 years in nets for Dublin and won 5 All Stars ( The first 2 were 10 years apart)

Cluxton this year is on course for his 5th all star,He has 2 All Irelands,Captain of one,He has also captained Ireland in the aussie rules and is the highest scoring keeper ever.

There is a great argument there if he is the best but unless you have seen all the above in the flesh you cant claim he was the best ever

Lemlin

To be honest I would think most of the people reading this thread aren't qualified enough to comment on the topic.

For example, I was born in 1983. The first GAA games I remember watching are around 1991 with the Meath/Dublin games.

So how the hell can I comment on the best goalkeeper ever? There's a good century worth of goalkeepers that I haven't even seen play.

Heck, there are plenty of county goalkeepers playing today that I haven't seen play.

GBXI

In any sport you can't compare eras so it's a waste of time from that point of view. But you can talk about a certain era/generation and Cluxton is, without any doubt, the best of his era/generation.

Not only that, he has arguably revolutionised Gaelic football since he started playing county football. He has already changed what is expected of a goalkeeper (which is some achievement in itself), but he is also changing what is expected of a mid-fielder, and the half-backs/half-forwards. He practically won Dublin the AI last weekend due to his influence from kick-outs. I think it wouldn't be wrong to say that, had last weekend's AI been played 10 years ago Mayo would have won because Mayo's mid-fielders are a lot better at winning high 50/50 balls than their Dublin counterparts, but Cluxton found a way around that.

He is arguably the best free-taker in Ireland and has now scored the winning point in two AI finals.

homerjay2005

Cluxton is a trend setter and game changer and for that, yes i think he could be the best keeper of all time.

his kick outs are just sensational and he is worth 5 or 6 points to Dublin (if not more) in every game.

they wouldnt have beaten Kerry without him.

patmac

Greatest Dublin keeper at the moment.

theoneeyedman

Pandiani wrote: »

Brian Scanlon from Limerick was kicking frees before Cluxton ever did for Dublin. Obviously not saying Scanlon is better but it annoys me when people say Cluxton was the first keeper to satrt to come up to take them.

Shane Curran often took long range frees for roscommon. I myself managed an underage goalkeeper in the mid to late 90s who often took 45s and long range frees.

He was hardly the first. Cluxton is a brilliant kicker of the ball, but tbh I'm struggling to remember any brilliant defensive/goalkeeping moves from him over the last few years ( picking the ball out of the net 3 times versus Kerry apart)

The_Honeybadger

theoneeyedman wrote: »

Shane Curran often took long range frees for roscommon. I myself managed an underage goalkeeper in the mid to late 90s who often took 45s and long range frees.

He was hardly the first. Cluxton is a brilliant kicker of the ball, but tbh I'm struggling to remember any brilliant defensive/goalkeeping moves from him over the last few years ( picking the ball out of the net 3 times versus Kerry apart)

He is a very good goalkeeper in the traditional sense, as good as anybody else at the moment but what sets him apart are his kick outs. He puts the ball into one of his teammates hands almost every time and that is absolutely priceless to any team. He is probably worth several points to Dublin every game and i can't recall any goalie past or present that has such an influence on the game.

I expect that all of the top teams will have devised a strategy to deal with this from next year though. Kerry had some limited success in negating this threat in the semi but he still did us great harm, and he destroyed Mayo with his kickouts time and again. It does help that Dublin have superb ball winners throughout their team, making it very difficult to play against.

Motivator

I can't remember the last time I saw Cluxton actually make a save in a match, so no, I wouldn't call him the best ever.

andyman

Motivator wrote: »

I can't remember the last time I saw Cluxton actually make a save in a match, so no, I wouldn't call him the best ever.

Come on man, you can do better than that.

I don't know if he's the best ever as I'm only 23, however he's easily the best of my lifetime. Those saying Gary Connaughton is a better shot-stopper have a fair point, but what makes a goalkeeper is to pull off that save in the dying moments of a game having had little to do in the way of shot-stopping all game. Who would you be more comfortable with in that situation? For me, I'd be more comfortable with Cluxton.

To put it into context, say Dublin were playing Westmeath in the AI Final. The story of the match is that Connaughton has stopped everything thrown at him while Cluxton has conceded 3 goals. Dublin are a point down in the final minute and manage to finally get a goal. Westmeath then with the next phase of play find themselves through on goal. I'd expect Cluxton to pull off that save that essentially wins Dublin the game, despite having conceded 3 goals earlier. He pulled off that one save that Dublin really needed him to pull off.

I can't think of a match off the top of my head where something like this has happened, but for me the best keepers are the ones who not only have excellent distribution, but are able to pull off that one save that I've described above. Unfortunately for Connaughton, we'll never have a chance to see if he can do that. With Cluxton, we already know.

Dirty Dingus McGee

It's easier for goalies from weaker counties to look like great shot stoppers.For example Alan Mulhall from Offaly is one of the best shot stoppers in Ireland and makes way more saves than Cluxton however I still would never choose him ahead of Cluxton as he gets so many opportunities to make saves and so its easier for him to look like a great shot stopper.

When a team plays against Dublin they may only get one or two shots at goal per game and will only shoot for goal if they are completely clean through. Against the top teams there isn't as much emphasis on deliberately creating goal chances as a lot of teams know they will invariably waste possession if they put to much emphasis trying to create a goal chance , this doesn't apply again mediocre counties.From what I've seen Almost every goal Cluxton concedes is a very good goal.

One of Cluxtons great strengths is to move off his line and narrow the angle so that the attacker doesn't even bother to shot for goal, in my opinion that is an even more important skill than shot stopping for a goalkeeper.

ProudDUB

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

It's easier for goalies from weaker counties to look like great shot stoppers.For example Alan Mulhall from Offaly is one of the best shot stoppers in Ireland and makes way more saves than Cluxton however I still would never choose him ahead of Cluxton as he gets so many opportunities to make saves and so its easier for him to look like a great shot stopper.

I agree. It is also easier for goal keeper from a weaker county to look better, as they would not come up against the marquee forwards like Colm Cooper or Bernard Brogan, or Micheal Murphy as often as Cluxton (or any other top tier goal keeper) would.

Cluxton faces forwards from other Division One teams during the league, he gets a bit of a break during the Leinster champo, but once the AI series enters the knock out stages, he is facing the top tier forwards again. How often would a goal keeper from Roscommon or Carlow come up against a really good forward? Not that often really, so it's hard to judge them all by the same standard imo.

Syferus

Dots1982 wrote: »

I find that a lot of fans don't rate Cluxton all that highly and think he is overrated.

I find this a questionable attitude given the span of his career and how he has redefined the position like Donal Og did in Hurling.

He was the first goalkeeper to aim kickouts accurately rather kicking the ball into the middle of the field and letting the big men sort it out. He kicks frees before any other goalkeeper. At least 10% of them do it now but he is better than all of them. He's a good shotstopper and is very comfortable on the ball and leaving his goal to fist a high ball away.

The most impressive thing for me is his distribution is exceptional and before every Dublin game this season a huge point of discussion was how the opposition would combat his kickouts.

Personally I think an Anti-Dub attitude is behind this and I'm not from Dublin.

So the best ever?

No he wasn't and no he didn't. Rarely have I seen so much white-washing of history as what Clux-aniacs throw out. I'm pretty sure the man himself would be incredibly embarrassed by some of the myths that surround him.

If you're going to eulogise someone at least get the basic facts correct.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Syferus wrote: »

No he wasn't. Rarely have I seen so much white-washing of history as what Clux-aniacs throw out. I'm pretty sure the man himself would be incredibly embarrassed by some of the myths that surround him.

He's been the best at it and because he has been so good has led other goalies to copy him, other goalies may have done it for a spell and had success but I don't think there have been too many goalkeepers (if any) who over a such a long period have been delivering such accurate kickouts. I can't remember too many goalkeepers kicking such a high percentage of shorter kickouts as cluxton does

Syferus

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

He's been the best at it and because he has been so good has led other goalies to copy him, other goalies may have done it for a spell and had success but I don't think there have been too many goalkeepers (if any) who over a such a long period have been delivering such accurate kickouts. I can't remember too many goalkeepers kicking such a high percentage of shorter kickouts as cluxton does

For the love of God, Cake has been doing everything Cluxton is lauded for for the last 25 years and still continues to do it. And he did it professionally in the LoI too. He certainly isn't the only one in the annals of GAA history with a professional soccer background either. Just scroll up for more and more examples. You're not taught to stupidly lump ball up the field in soccer and if you did you wouldn't see the field.

You'd swear every keeper before Stephen Cluxton donned a baseball cap were thundering dolts who'd just blindly lumped the ball up the field if you listened to the myths. Keepers have plenty of time to think about their craft and plenty of them varied their kick-outs long before Cluxton. All he is one of the best examples of it.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Syferus wrote: »

For the love of God, Cake has been doing everything Cluxton is lauded for for the last 25 years and still continues to do it. And he did it professionally in the LoI too. And he certainly isn't the only one in the annals of GAA history with a professional soccer background. Just scroll up for more and more examples.

You'd swear every keeper before Stephen Cluxton donned a baseball cap just blindly lumped the ball up the field if you listened to the myths. Keepers have plenty of time to think about their craft and plenty of them varied their kick-outs long before Cluxton. All he is one of the best examples of it.

The vast majority of goalies did send 90% of their kickouts as far as they could down the field and leave it for pretty much a 50:50 contest between the midfielders.I don't think anyone claims Cluxton was the first to vary his kickouts but he has been the best at delivering short kickouts and because he has been so good at it teams have tried to emulate this success.

CZ 453

John Kerins

STB

Howard Juneau wrote: »

Hyperbole

Howard Juneau wrote: »

No, that's irrelevant.

Huh ? 50 yards out. In an All Ireland Final. To win the game ?

Its very relevant if your team is on the receiving end of it. You will certainly make my day if you will tell me you are from Kerry. Are you from Kerry ?

Infact he is the only goalkeeper in GAA footballing history to score the winning point in an All Ireland Final.

4 All Stars. Soon to be 5.

For many of the current generation he stands out a mile. I would have seen the greats the likes of John O Shea and Charlie Nelligan but would argue that Cluxton's overall game makes him a better keeper than those.

I never do get the bashing that goes on with Clux. Is it a green eyed monster thing or an ABD thing ? He is a quite shy chap who doesn't seek the limelight. What he does on the pitch is whats relevant and I cant think of any current keeper in the game that has been as influential as him.

His kickouts in the final this year required pin point accuracy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrHT3jecIJs

Howard Juneau

STB wrote: »

Huh ? 50 yards out. In an All Ireland Final. To win the game ?

Its very relevant if your team is on the receiving end of it. You will certainly make my day if you will tell me you are from Kerry. Are you from Kerry ?

Infact he is the only goalkeeper in GAA footballing history to score the winning point in an All Ireland Final.

4 All Stars. Soon to be 5.

For many of the current generation he stands out a mile. I would have seen the greats the likes of John O Shea and Charlie Nelligan but would argue that Cluxton's overall game makes him a better keeper than those.

I never do get the bashing that goes on with Clux. Is it a green eyed monster thing or an ABD thing ? He is a quite shy chap who doesn't seek the limelight. What he does on the pitch is whats relevant and I cant think of any current keeper in the game that has been as influential as him.

His kickouts in the final this year required pin point accuracy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrHT3jecIJs

Kicking points does not a great goalkeeper make. If a forward, midfielder or defender kicks a winning point, do people claim him to be the greatest ever? No.
Plenty of keepers have managed to have accurate kick outs, it's not all close their eyes & kick wildly.
I have seen many keepers thru my life, I don't rate Cluxton as the best, not even in the top 5 off the top of my head.
I'm not saying he's not a good keeper, but the greatest? Not within an asses roar of it.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Howard Juneau wrote: »

Kicking points does not a great goalkeeper make. If a forward, midfielder or defender kicks a winning point, do people claim him to be the greatest ever? No.
Plenty of keepers have managed to have accurate kick outs, it's not all close their eyes & kick wildly.
I have seen many keepers thru my life, I don't rate Cluxton as the best, not even in the top 5 off the top of my head.
I'm not saying he's not a good keeper, but the greatest? Not within an asses roar of it.

Gaelic Football is a team game and Cluxton contributes to his team by kicking frees which allows Dublin to not have to upset the balance of their forward line by having to carry a freetaker. If Shane Supple was Dublin goalkeeper in those 2 all irelands Dublin would probably have zero all irelands this decade instead of the 2 they have.

Freetaking may not be a the number 1 job a goalie has to do but it is more helpful for a team than a goalkeeper who can't kick frees and all things being equal isn't it better for a team to have a goalie who can kick frees than one who can't.

I can't think of another goalie who has had such an influence on his teams overall performance as Cluxton has

Howard Juneau

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Gaelic Football is a team game and Cluxton contributes to his team by kicking frees which allows Dublin to not have to upset the balance of their forward line by having to carry a freetaker. If Shane Supple was Dublin goalkeeper in those 2 all irelands Dublin would probably have zero all irelands this decade instead of the 2 they have.

Freetaking may not be a the number 1 job a goalie has to do but it is more helpful for a team than a goalkeeper who can't kick frees and all things being equal isn't it better for a team to have a goalie who can kick frees than one who can't.

I can't think of another goalie who has had such an influence on his teams overall performance as Cluxton has

No, personally I don't think it's better to have a keeper who can kick frees, eventually he will get caught out when trying to race back & try to stop the ball going into his own net, plus, it shows deficiencies in other parts of the team.
The most important part of a keepers job is net minding, and unfortunately, he's quite average in that respect.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Howard Juneau wrote: »

No, personally I don't think it's better to have a keeper who can kick frees, eventually he will get caught out when trying to race back & try to stop the ball going into his own net, plus, it shows deficiencies in other parts of the team.
The most important part of a keepers job is net minding, and unfortunately, he's quite average in that respect.

Shotstopping is probably third or fourth on this list of what is important in Gaelic Football goalkeeping.

Kickouts being number 1,
dealing with high balls into the square being number 2 and maybe shot stopping being number 3 although personally I would rank being able to move off your line so a goal chance is snuffed out before the forward even thinks of shooting as being more important than shot stopping.

Cluxton has yet to be caught out having to run back down the field as almost all his frees have the distance to go over the bar or wide and this is gaelic football not soccer so it is far less likely that the goalie will get caught out up the field and be to blame for a goal being conceded.

You just proved my point by regarding keepers taking frees, Dublin have a slight deficiency in their team that they don't feel they have a 100% reliable long range and left footed free-taker, however because of Cluxton this deficiency is not important as he fills this gap and helps out his team.It doesn't matter a fiddlers who gets the scores as long a someone on your team gets them.

Howard Juneau

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Shotstopping is probably third or fourth on this list of what is important in Gaelic Football goalkeeping.

Kickouts being number 1,
dealing with high balls into the square being number 2 and maybe shot stopping being number 3 although personally I would rank being able to move off your line so a goal chance is snuffed out before the forward even thinks of shooting as being more important than shot stopping.

Cluxton has yet to be caught out having to run back down the field as almost all his frees have the distance to go over the bar or wide and this is gaelic football not soccer so it is far less likely that the goalie will get caught out up the field and be to blame for a goal being conceded.

You just proved my point by regarding keepers taking frees, Dublin have a slight deficiency in their team that they don't feel they have a 100% reliable long range and left footed free-taker, however because of Cluxton this deficiency is not important as he fills this gap and helps out his team.It doesn't matter a fiddlers who gets the scores as long a someone on your team gets them.

I've seen full backs take kick outs in games, possibly if one of the Dublin backs can do that Cluxton can be moved into the half forward line
His actual goaltending isn't the best, some keepers do well at one on ones, Cluxton isn't one of them. It's all subjective though, some class him as the greatest, the rest of us think not

keane2097

I'd agree that shotstopping is well down the list of attributes that are important to have as a goalkeeper in GAA.

IMO, kickouts are the most important thing by a distance and Cluxton is the best I've seen at them.

I don't really think there's an argument that being able to kick difficult frees under intense pressure doesn't matter when talking about a goalkeeper. In a team game, it's all about how much you can contribute to the team, and that's a pretty massive tool to have in your bag - it definitely counts.

Dubliner28

adocholiday wrote: »

One thing I'll say about him taking frees is the added time it takes. My father worked out (don't ask, he loves this kind of thing...) that for Cluxton to take the free/45 it takes an extra 20 seconds or something than it would for a player near the ball. Now if Cluxton was to kick 10 frees/45's in a game that's an additional 200 seconds, which is 3.3 minutes. How valuable have those 3 minutes been to the Dub's over the past few years!

Great goalkeeper though

O Connor for Mayo.. Imagine he took them frees quick? Sam could be up Castlebar

Limestone1

Moneymaker wrote: »

Also, poor year and he will most likely win yet another All-Star. He's set the bar higher then any goalkeeper that has come before him.

He raised up the crossbar ? I didn't know that. Fair play to him, thats definitely brave for a goalie - Can I change my vote ?

elguapo

Cluxton is a great keeper, his distribution is fantastic and he's a good shot stopper. He is prone to the odd clanger, (giving away possession against Kerry in 2007, kickouts against Kerry this year, way too far off his line for Moran's goal), but that's the nature of being a keeper, any mistake made is very obvious and can be very costly.

He's certainly the best keeper I've seen in my lifetime, but of course I can't comment on anything pre 1980s.

seligehgit

Dots1982 wrote: »

I find that a lot of fans don't rate Cluxton all that highly and think he is overrated.

I find this a questionable attitude given the span of his career and how he has redefined the position like Donal Og did in Hurling.

He was the first goalkeeper to aim kickouts accurately rather kicking the ball into the middle of the field and letting the big men sort it out. He kicks frees before any other goalkeeper. At least 10% of them do it now but he is better than all of them. He's a good shotstopper and is very comfortable on the ball and leaving his goal to fist a high ball away.

The most impressive thing for me is his distribution is exceptional and before every Dublin game this season a huge point of discussion was how the opposition would combat his kickouts.

Personally I think an Anti-Dub attitude is behind this and I'm not from Dublin.

So the best ever?

Do not think an Anti Dublin attitude has any relevance,simply a difference of opinion.Speaking of which I think he's best keeper I've seen in my lifetime.

seligehgit

mickeyk wrote: »

His accuracy from kickouts is invaluable to his team and he is extremely good at all aspects of his trade. One of the very best ever if not the best. Don't understand myself why others don't rate him. On the time wasting thing, it is an excellent tactic towards the end of tight games where they have an advantage, up to the referee to add time if needed but they usually don't as far as I remember.

Time wasting is'nt sportmanlike,I know it takes a crazy amount of time for him to come up the pitch and he strikes the ball almost immediately but the sooner the referees take cognisance of the amount of time wasted the better.It's a joke how little time does be added on cases where goalkeepers engage in this tactic.

seligehgit

Darkest Horse wrote: »

A little harsh I think. He is a naturally quiet guy who seems to be shy to the public eye. Nothing more or less. Ironically, wasn't he nominated for RTE sports personality of the year one year?

Totally agree Cluxton simply appears to be a really quiet lad who is media averse(kudos to him),a born winner.
Speaking of which I think it's a non contest between Cluxton and O' Leary,Cluxton is a superior all round keeper.Agree with some of the other contributors who mentioned he can go AWOL/wandering outside his area of command and lose possession/get into trouble(Grobbelaar like occasional tendencies) but it does'nt detract to any great degree from his undoubted worth as a keeper.

jimini0

Cluxton is the best keeper in the last few years no doubt. But having watched videos of matches from years back. When gaelic football was less tactical the keepers were no nonsense boys. If the ball came near the goal they got it and if there was a man there he felt it. The ball was kicked as hard as possible down the field. Paddy cullen was a great take man and ball specialist.I'm not saying he was greatest of all time but I think keepers back in those days did the job they were supposed to do. Stop goals and get the ball up the field. No pussy footing about. Cluxton is new breed of keeper he is setting the standards for the future. His kick outs are unreal. Shot stopping is good most of the time. His distribution is also top class. BUT having just watched international rules gold on tg4 his pass in the first quarter of 1st test in 2011 he needs to work on his decision making in open play. That's just an example. Its hard to compare players from now to back then cos the game has changed so much. The best of players of years ago would struggle with todays game and todays players would struggle with the old game.