Deposit + ?

fend

Just left my previous accommodation. No contract was ever signed or discussed. The landlord now thinks we owe him a ridiculous amount of money for repairs. We have left our deposit with him, but he wants more? Are we obliged?

Icepick

fend wrote: »

Just left my previous accommodation. No contract was ever signed or discussed. The landlord now thinks we owe him a ridiculous amount of money for repairs. We have left our deposit with him, but he wants more? Are we obliged?

Did you damage the place?

The_Morrigan

fend wrote: »

Just left my previous accommodation. No contract was ever signed or discussed. The landlord now thinks we owe him a ridiculous amount of money for repairs. We have left our deposit with him, but he wants more? Are we obliged?

Are you responsible for him having to do the repairs?

Ted_YNWA

You cannot be charged for reasonable wear & tear when you move out of a rented property.

It is open to interpretation what determines reasonable.

The_Morrigan

Ted_YNWA wrote: »

You cannot be charged for reasonable wear & tear when you move out of a rented property.

It is open to interpretation what determines reasonable.

Reasonable wear and tear is indeed not the responsibility of the tenant, but when I hear the word 'repairs' I tend to think it's more than a clean up required.

fend

Hes charging us for cleaning, painting, replacing a chair which the dog chewed. These are covered within the deposit. Hes charging the cleaning under HIS TIME so he can come up with whatever figure he wants... Hes making out that we are going owe him more than the deposit....

Also, if if the chair is replaced, am I entitled to keep the one that was damaged?

Reminder: we signed no lease/contract

EDIT: We did clean the place before we left. Hes just mad that he had to go painting the all white walls in the house due to DAMPNESS/cigarettes smoke/steam/food in kitchen marks/door banging etc..... To clarify, we didnt leave the place with cans everywhere or needles and ****e all over the place

The_Morrigan

fend wrote: »

Hes charging us for cleaning, painting, replacing a chair which the dog chewed. These are covered within the deposit. Hes charging the cleaning under HIS TIME so he can come up with whatever figure he wants... Hes making out that we are going owe him more than the deposit....

Also, if if the chair is replaced, am I entitled to keep the one that was damaged?

If the painting is to repair damage to the walls beyond reasonable wear and tear and he has receipts for such, then that is permitted. ( Numerous marks on the walls, holes,damage from pictures, damage from animals etc)
The chair again, is also permitted once he has a receipt.

Cleaning - if he is doing it himself, he is not allowed to charge you for it.

Was the tenancy registered with the PRTB?

The_Morrigan

Fend I wouldn't consider some of those items in your list normal wear and tear, so depending on the amount of work to make the house ready for the next set of tenants, you may be liable for some of those costs.

How long were you living in the house?

L1011

fend wrote: »

Hes charging the cleaning under HIS TIME so he can come up with whatever figure he wants.

He can't charge a single cent for time if he does it himself.

fend

Was living there 14months. Im not sure if hes registered but we never signed anything, never got a receipt for rent in any of the months there, not anything in the lines of rent book etc. It was literally, hand him rent on the same day every month. When we moved in initially we received a receipt for the deposit. that is the only piece of documentation we have ever received off him.

I think hes trying to charge us for a mattress that was in the spear room which when we moved in, we dismantled the bed and put it to storage in the same room as the mattress smelled SO BAD. We were int he house about a week when we did that. He had boiler men and work men in the house a couple of times during the tenancy who would have been in that room and seen it in storage. The entire room was used for storage.

Hes saying the mattress was brand new when we moved in (which it most certainly was not) he yelled at us yesterday saying we owe him for a new mattress and that he got it a year ago blah blah blah... he named where he got it. Out of my own curiosity I rang the place where he says he got it and they advised me they haven't sold furniture for over 2 years.

Then he showed me picture of the "new mattress" which were allegedly taken on the day we moved (he showed us dates on the computer) however the pictures that were taken were the pictures up on a daft a month before hand?

I know this as fact.

The pictures were taken before the previous tenants as there was a picture of the garden which was not the same garden as when we moved in. The garden was a disgrace when we moved in and we had it entirely landscaped and a fence put up (mainly for the dogs...)

The_Morrigan

So the mattress and the charges for his time are the only charges you are really contesting?

If you have left him your deposit and he hasn't registered with the PRTB then I can't see him lodging a claim to get any further funds from you.

Scortho

I rarely say this but I'd be telling the landlord in this case where he can shove his fist.

Seems to be totally taking the mickey.
Did you pay by cash...revenue may be interested to have a chat with him.

By the sounds of things he seems to be the type of scumbag landlord that gives all landlords a bad name.

zenno

You owe this landlord nothing, zero. Normal wear and tear of a premises is naturally up to the landlord to clean, you are not his private cleaner. you should also try to get back your deposit as well.

Seeing that it was cash in hand, tell him you will report him if he does not fully cooperate regarding the return of your deposit

The_Morrigan

zenno wrote: »

You owe this landlord nothing, zero. Normal wear and tear of a premises is naturally up to the landlord to clean, you are not his private cleaner. I would also try to get back your deposit as well.

I'd disagree.
14 months and the place needs to be repainted because of food stains on the walls, cig smoke & damage from banging doors and a dog chewed chair.
I've lived in my house for 5 years, it's been painted once and I haven't had to replace any furniture despite having a pup here on numerous occasions when my parents head off on holidays.

zenno

The_Morrigan wrote: »

I'd disagree.
14 months and the place needs to be repainted because of food stains on the walls, cig smoke & damage from banging doors and a dog chewed chair.
I've lived in my house for 5 years, it's been painted once and I haven't had to replace any furniture despite having a pup here on numerous occasions when my parents head off on holidays.

Hang on a second, the landlord is the only person responsible for painting the flat/house. The OP has no entitlement to disfigure the internal structure of the dwelling (as in painting it). In all fairness though, the chair needs to be repaired for the landlord and this is the fact, but as i said, the OP is not the landlords private cleaner and as such, it is up to the landlord to decorate his abode.

Any physical damage caused by the OP or his dog needs to be rectified by the OP. Demand the return of your deposit and tell the landlord you will have his chair repaired personally, other than that you owe him nothing.

The_Morrigan

zenno wrote: »

Hang on a second, the landlord is the only person responsible for painting the flat/house. The OP has no entitlement to disfigure the internal structure of the dwelling (as in painting it). In all fairness though, the chair needs to be repaired for the landlord and this is the fact, but as i said, the OP is not the landlords private cleaner and as such, it is up to the landlord to decorate his abode.

Any physical damage caused by the OP or his dog needs to be rectified by the OP. Demand the return of your deposit and tell the landlord you will have his chair repaired personally, other than that you owe him nothing.

The landlord needs to repaint it so that a new tenant can live in it without the stains and damage caused by the OP. The landlord is entitled to have his property returned to him in the exact same manner in which he let it, subject to normal wear and tear, and personally I would not think any rental property should be in need of a repainting after 14 months, so the wear and tear must be over and above 'normal'.

The OP may do all the work and replace the chair himself or the landlord may do it and charge him materials if he is doing it himself or the cost of getting in a professional if that is required.

zenno

The_Morrigan wrote: »

The landlord needs to repaint it so that a new tenant can live in it without the stains and damage caused by the OP. The landlord is entitled to have his property returned to him in the exact same manner in which he let it, subject to normal wear and tear, and personally I would not think any rental property should be in need of a repainting after 14 months, so the wear and tear must be over and above 'normal'.

The OP may do all the work and replace the chair himself or the landlord may do it and charge him materials if he is doing it himself or the cost of getting in a professional if that is required.

But this is my point. the OP has no obligation to paint this abode, there is nothing in the contract to state this. Of course i will agree with you that any damage needs to be rectified if there is damage but the painting/decorating of the abode is entirely up to the landlord. Of course, the landlord would like a handy dig-out for a person to paint his abode, but this is wishful thinking as the OP does not have to do this, and the OP needs to be refunded his deposit.

Many a time, landlords will use any excuse to keep their deposit, wrongfully of course.

Scortho

zenno wrote: »

But this is my point. the OP has no obligation to paint this abode, there is nothing in the contract to state this. Of course i will agree with you that any damage needs to be rectified if there is damage but the painting/decorating of the abode is entirely up to the landlord. Of course, the landlord would like a handy dig-out for a person to paint his abode, but this is wishful thinking as the OP does not have to do this, and the OP needs to be refunded his deposit.

Many a time, landlords will use any excuse to keep their deposit, wrongfully of course.

Smoke damage wouldnt be wear and tear.

At the same time though id be telling the landlord to take a hike, considering he had no contract...

the chances of this landlord being prtb registered in order to do anything is slim. Chances are he'll paint it himself. If he then goes to the prtb with a claim for painting all he can charge for is the paint.
Surely the costs of paint and replacing a chair would be covered in the deposit.

The_Morrigan

zenno wrote: »

But this is my point. the OP has no obligation to paint this abode, there is nothing in the contract to state this. Of course i will agree with you that any damage needs to be rectified if there is damage but the painting/decorating of the abode is entirely up to the landlord. Of course, the landlord would like a handy dig-out for a person to paint his abode, but this is wishful thinking as the OP does not have to do this, and the OP needs to be refunded his deposit.

Many a time, landlords will use any excuse to keep their deposit, wrongfully of course.

Listen I agree that landlords are responsible for refreshing the house between tenancies, but I don't think in this instance that the landlord is painting the house just to be nice to the next set of tenants. The stains described by fend are not normal wear and tear.

The landlord is therefore entitled to deduct the materials or cost of a professional from the deposit as this imo is over and above.


OP ask for receipts from the landlord for the materials and replacing of the chair.

zenno

Scortho wrote: »

Smoke damage wouldnt be wear and tear.

At the same time though id be telling the landlord to take a hike, considering he had no contract...

the chances of this landlord being prtb registered in order to do anything is slim. Chances are he'll paint it himself. If he then goes to the prtb with a claim for painting all he can charge for is the paint.
Surely the costs of paint and replacing a chair would be covered in the deposit.

If it was me personally, i would paint the place after 10 months just because i like to live in a nice and clean looking home, but my point is the fact that the OP does not have to paint it, that's all i'm saying. The landlord withholding his deposit is more worrying in my opinion. Like i said, if the deposit was given back to the OP then the OP i would like to think would get the chair repaired for the landlord and leave it at that.

zenno

The_Morrigan wrote: »

Listen I agree that landlords are responsible for refreshing the house between tenancies, but I don't think in this instance that the landlord is painting the house just to be nice to the next set of tenants. The stains described by fend are not normal wear and tear.

The landlord is therefore entitled to deduct the materials or cost of a professional from the deposit as this imo is over and above.


OP ask for receipts from the landlord for the materials and replacing of the chair.

It is the landlords property, and the landlord is responsible for the decorating if he/she want's to do business with a new tenant.

The way things are going, the landlords will eventually want the tenant to cook their daily meals next.

The_Morrigan

zenno wrote: »

It is the landlords property, and the landlord is responsible for the decorating if he/she want's to do business with a new tenant.

...but the damage to the existing paintwork is not the fault of the landlord, it's the OP's!

zenno

The_Morrigan wrote: »

...but the damage to the existing paintwork is not the fault of the landlord, it's the OP's!

It's not damage, it's just wear and tear, from smoke either from cooking with heat over time and smoking. Landlords are getting lazy these day's, they need to get up off their large buttocks and clean their own abode to have it nice and clean and fresh for their new tenants.

We obviously have a difference of opinion on this matter, but at the end of the day, it's just the way it is, unless it is specifically stated in a contract that the abode needs to be painted before the tenant leave.

ShaShaBear

zenno wrote: »

It's not damage, it's just wear and tear, from smoke either from cooking with heat over time and smoking. Landlords are getting lazy these day's, they need to get up off their large buttocks and clean their own abode to have it nice and clean and fresh for their new tenants.

We obviously have a difference of opinion on this matter, but at the end of the day, it's just the way it is, unless it is specifically stated in a contract that the abode needs to be painted before the tenant leave.

In the 6 months we have lived in our new house, there are no stains on any of the painted walls from smoke (by cooking or my partner's heavy smoking) and definitely none from food. How the hell do you get food stains on a painted wall without noticing and cleaning it off straight away?

Scortho

zenno wrote: »

If it was me personally, i would paint the place after 10 months just because i like to live in a nice and clean looking home, but my point is the fact that the OP does not have to paint it, that's all i'm saying. The landlord withholding his deposit is more worrying in my opinion. Like i said, if the deposit was given back to the OP then the OP i would like to think would get the chair repaired for the landlord and leave it at that.

smoke damage would be beyond wear and tear to be honest.
my house hasn't been painted in 4 years and there is no smoke damage...

zenno

ShaShaBear wrote: »

In the 6 months we have lived in our new house, there are no stains on any of the painted walls from smoke (by cooking or my partner's heavy smoking) and definitely none from food. How the hell do you get food stains on a painted wall without noticing and cleaning it off straight away?

I have no idea what to make of that comment regarding food-stains on the walls

Heat and smoke will discolour the walls, especially if the original colour is white, obviously.

fend

I purchased replacement second hand chairs today, met the landlord who snubbed them back in my face saying he wanted new ones. I told him to buy his own chairs so and send me the bill, am I entitled to keep the damaged chairs if he purchases new ones and sends me the bill?

Agent Smith

I wonder if he's registered the Rental Income with the revenue...

If your happy to surrender the deposit. Tell him quite frankly to feck off. you have no contract. There is no record of you living there. tell him if he constently harrases you you'll contact the police

The_Conductor

zenno wrote: »

It's not damage, it's just wear and tear, from smoke either from cooking with heat over time and smoking. Landlords are getting lazy these day's, they need to get up off their large buttocks and clean their own abode to have it nice and clean and fresh for their new tenants.

We obviously have a difference of opinion on this matter, but at the end of the day, it's just the way it is, unless it is specifically stated in a contract that the abode needs to be painted before the tenant leave.

Smoke damaging from cigarettes and food stains on the wall- most certainly are *not* normal wear and tear. It beggars belief that you seem to have some notion that it does. The OP most certainly does owe for the repainting of the apartment- the landlord is however not entitled to charge for his time (which is why most landlords get contract painters in when necessary, rahter than doing it themselves).

The chair being chewed by the dog- ditto is the responsibility of the tenant. You can argue until the cows come home whether or not its the prerogative of the landlord or the tenant as to whether the chair should be repaired or replaced- and with what.

The lack of a written lease- is immaterial- a verbal contract is implied and satisfied in Irish law.

The landlord's tax status- is not the business of the tenant- and attempting to suggest it is- could be construed as blackmail in its own right. If the landlord is not tax compliant- this is between them and the Revenue Commissioners- it is not the business of the tenant.

With respect of whether or not the tenancy is registered- this has no bearing whatsoever on the tenants right to bring a case against the landlord to the PRTB- and if they consider themselves hard-done-by- they certainly should do so. If the tenancy is not registered- the PRTB have the right to levy a fine of up to 5000 Euro and/or up to a 6 month jail term on the landlord, on summary conviction.

Lets deal with facts rather than innuendo here folks. Neither side are in the right here. The tenant does indeed have a lease- albeit by virtue of a verbal contract- however almost uniquely in residential law- this is a valid contractual arrangement in Ireland. It is not normal to have food stains on the wall, cigarette smoke stains (and stench) throughout, or the furniture eaten by the dog. The landlord cannot charge for his time in cleaning, painting or repairing. The tenant cannot decide to replace the chair. Good luck fighting over the matress- unless you have evidence otherwise- and proper evidence, I'd be inclined to say accept it.

The whole situation is a mess- compounded by the lack of knowledge on the part of both the tenant and the landlord as to what their respective rights and obligations towards one another are.

odds_on

Excellent post by The_Conductor and I agree completely with him in all respects.

Unfortunately, when tenants tell about the state of a property when they leave, they tend to waterdown the situation.

Likewise, when landlords write posts of damage caused by tenants, they tend to make it much worse than it is.

The only way to be sure is to have a proper entry and exit inventory of the property, preferably with photos and/or video, which is signed by both tenant and landlord. And even with this, there will always be problems with "Normal wear and tear" as it is no definitive definition.

A property should be vacated in the same condition as it was at the time of entry - less normal wear and tear. Normal w & t appears not to be the same in rented accommodation as it is in a private home. Very few home owners will paint the interior every 2-3 years, there is usually a good 5 years plus between repaints yet landlords often have to repaint at least once every 1 or 2 years.

My last point which the OP may not realize is that if he did not have a written lease agreement, then he is obliged to be provided with a rent book which must state certain details of the rented accommodation, landlord, tenant and deposit, as well as the rent paid and when paid.

fend

Thanks all for your replies. Much appreciated!
Any thoughts on the other question I asked regarding if the landlord replaces the chair and sends me the bill, am I entitled to the damaged one since I will have paid for a new one?