Where will Man Utd finish this season?

Hyzepher

One thing is for sure. The CL places this year will be a lot closer than last year and that was damn close. I would imagine that the winning points total is going to be low this year - cant see any of the teams losing less than 5 for the full season.

cson

Difference between now and a year ago is that RVP was bailing United out a year ago - remember that 3-2 vs Soton?

The squad is certainly good enough for top 4, I don't think they'll win it, but Moyes probably needs to mature tactically a lot. What worked with his group at Everton will almost certainly not work at United; different players who are technically far better will not be suited by the style he's accustomed to setting his teams out. The playing Fellaini as a makeshift CF and knocking balls up to him on Saturday would be worrying if you're a United fan.

Giggsy11

cson wrote: »

Difference between now and a year ago is that RVP was bailing United out a year ago - remember that 3-2 vs Soton?

The squad is certainly good enough for top 4, I don't think they'll win it, but Moyes probably needs to mature tactically a lot. What worked with his group at Everton will almost certainly not work at United; different players who are technically far better will not be suited by the style he's accustomed to setting his teams out. The playing Fellaini as a makeshift CF and knocking balls up to him on Saturday would be worrying if you're a United fan.

That didn't happen at all. That was one more worry that it didn't happen. We were 2-1 down at home and none of our midfielders joined the attacking in the box except when Fellaini scored offside goal.

Nalz

3rd I'd say

but its hard to know and as a result almost pointless to debate so soon

kippy

NukaCola wrote: »

He needs to go on a serious run to turn this around but his tactics are just not up to it. Man Utd, for the first time in a long time, look very average and beatable......

A serious run?
You've seen the league table right?
You've seen the results Chelsea and City have had right?

5starpool

kippy wrote: »

A serious run?
You've seen the league table right?
You've seen the results Chelsea and City have had right?

Exactly. 2 wins in a row even, and while things won't necessarily be all rosy, things will be a lot more positive looking. Man Utd have gone on runs like this, or worse before, although not at the start of the season, and not with a new manager which is the main reason for the focus. It is not necessarily going to turn around, but chances are it will do, at least to an extent that top 4 isn't a worry by Feb or so.

racso1975

Utd after Ferguson was always always going to be a poisoned chalice!!!!! No team, company or organisation can change their manager after 20 years and not expect that there will be a re-adjustment period!!!

It affects every single person working with or in old trafford!!!! New managerial techniques, New power games, relationships and strategies.

Moyes was given 4 years and here are people judging him after 4 weeks.

Lets remember the blame for the transfer debacle does not lie on his doorstep!!!!

If nothing else he deserves massive applause for sorting out the rooney situation. That was an open wound that could of infected the whole team instead he has been Utd best player so far!!!

5starpool

!!!!

6 years, not 4!!!!

racso1975

5starpool wrote: »

!!!!

6 years, not 4!!!!

Ok Mr pedantic :-) I am sure the point was not lost

5starpool

I mostly wanted to post because of your affinity to !!!!. Carry on.

Playboy

5th or 6th imo. Moyes will struggle to win over the dressing room and the results will only get worse.

richierichballs

Playboy wrote: »

5th or 6th imo. Moyes will struggle to win over the dressing room and the results will only get worse.

agreed, rumors where circulating that RVP wasn't happy with his new training methods either.

Julez

Just picked two random predicions

1. Chelsea
2. Arsenal
3. Spurs
4. Utd
5. City
6. Everton
7. Liverpool

1. City
2. Chelsea
3. Arsenal
4. Spurs
5. Liverpool
6. Utd.

Even as a United fan, with our terrible start, I think its great for the league that almost all of us generally haven't a clue how the top of the league will look come may. As for where United will finish... honestly, again, I don't know. But, it doesn't look great for Utd. However, I wouldn't judge my decision on the first six games alone. At this point last year everyone thought Chelsea would run away with it, anything can still happen.

Nuri Sahin

Julez wrote: »

Just picked two random predicions





Even as a United fan, with our terrible start, I think its great for the league that almost all of us generally haven't a clue how the top of the league will look come may. As for where United will finish... honestly, again, I don't know. But, it doesn't look great for Utd. However, I wouldn't judge my decision on the first six games alone. At this point last year everyone thought Chelsea would run away with it, anything can still happen.

At this point last year, United had Fergie.

Julez

Nuri Sahin wrote: »

At this point last year, United had Fergie.

I'm aware of that. I don't specifically mean in relation to United, I just mean any teams level of performance or standard of play at this point doesn't mean they will/will not finish in a good/bad position. Still 32 games to play.

8-10

They'll win it, narrowly over Chelsea

ebbsy

Arsenal,Liverpool,Spurs and City to finish in the top 4.

Chelsea ? Up and down.
United ? No money to spend.

GavRedKing

ebbsy wrote: »

Arsenal,Liverpool,Spurs and City to finish in the top 4.

Chelsea ? Up and down.
United ? No money to spend.

Theres no way we wont finish inside the top 4.

richierichballs

GavRedKing wrote: »

Theres no way we wont finish inside the top 4.

why do you think that?

SEPT 23 1989

in the championship

kippy

richierichballs wrote: »

why do you think that?

£££££££££

To much at stake not to and plenty in the bank to make some knee jerk signings in Jan.

Augmerson

This is pretty laughable, it's only the end of September, United will pull themselves together.

ebbsy

GavRedKing wrote: »

Theres no way we wont finish inside the top 4.

All depends on the January sales. Can Mr.Moyes attract the players then though ?

kippy

ebbsy wrote: »

All depends on the January sales. Can Mr.Moyes attract the players then though ?

Well so long as they don't suddenly go broke - yeah, there are plenty world class players who will play anywhere once the figures add up - just look at City and Chelsea for examples of that.

Morzadec

Still too early to say really.

United fans could well point to the argument that the teams they were looking at at the start of the season were City and Chelsea and if they look at themselves in a bubble with those other 2 teams they won't feel too bad at the moment.

However I feel that would be foolish as I think at the very least Arsenal will be a threat to them and are capable of winning the league, with Spurs and Liverpool sniffing around as well and potentially being able to consistently put together wins.

An 8 point gap to Arsenal is already massive regardless of favourable fixtures for Arsenal and some tough ones for United.

For me a good time to make an assessment would be after the Arsenal game at home on the 10th of November.

Before then United have 4 matches they feel they should win. I would imagine they need at least 9 points from these games, and then to beat Arsenal to take the pressure off Moyes. Failing to get a win in any of their 4 big games will be a big black mark against Moyes - he already has question marks over his ability to outsmart top managers and set up his teams for big games so dropped points against Arsenal won't go down well.

Then again they could take 12 points before that and still be in a very nice position.

I think United will probably end up getting 3rd or 4th this year but I think they will probably really have to fight for it

5starpool

So many knees jerking so hard in this thread.

Oranage2

Augmerson wrote: »

This is pretty laughable, it's only the end of September, United will pull themselves together.

You always got the feel fergy could, moyes on the other hand doesn't inspire any confidence

mike65

No one WANTS to play for Moyes, even when Fergie was there Utd lacked the ultimate glamour of Real and Barcelona, without him and if they are struggling in the league come transfer window time it could be a case of shopping for players who are good but somewhat peripheral at sides like PSG, Monaco, Bayern and those same Spanish giants.

kippy

mike65 wrote: »

No one WANTS to play for Moyes, even when Fergie was there Utd lacked the ultimate glamour of Real and Barcelona, without him and if they are struggling in the league come transfer window time it could be a case of shopping for players who are good but somewhat peripheral at sides like PSG, Monaco, Bayern and those same Spanish giants.

The question has to be asked but when ever did United manage to buy key players at ANY of those clubs?
Never is the answer........

United have generally gotten British players or young promising or indeed unknown (at the time) european players. Even with Fergie.

mike65

Veron from Lazio (who were at their peak) is a rare example of top talent from a top team in a top league.

kippy

mike65 wrote: »

Veron from Lazio (who were at their peak) is a rare example of top talent from a top team in a top league.

So 1 player in 25 odd years.........

GavRedKing

richierichballs wrote: »

why do you think that?

Us being Chelsea in this instance.

Better squad then last year, better manager and our two direct rivals, like us lost their managers.

Theres along way to go and I dont think we'll be signing anyone in January anyway but if we didnt come top 4 this season with our squad it would be a worse finish then when Di Matteo managed the same feat only to be over-shadowed by his UCL run and win.

If Chelsea, Utd and City going into the last few games of the season I'd be very surprised, between now and then there is 96 points to play for, the table is very close and its more competitive then its ever been so its going to be a season where a team could win the league while dropping some crazy points along the way.

mike65

1 Dimitar Berbatov Tottenham Hotspur £30.75 million September 2008
2 Rio Ferdinand Leeds United £29.3 million July 2002
3 Juan Sebastián Verón Lazio £28.1 million[44] July 2001
4 Marouane Fellaini Everton £27.5 million[45] September 2013
5 Wayne Rooney Everton £27 million August 2004
6 Robin van Persie Arsenal £24 million[46] August 2012
7 Anderson Porto £20.4 million[47] July 2007
8 Ruud van Nistelrooy PSV Eindhoven £19 million[48] June 2001
9 David de Gea Atlético Madrid £18.9 million[49] June 2011
10 Michael Carrick Tottenham Hotspur £18.6 million[50] July 2006

kippy

mike65 wrote: »

1 Dimitar Berbatov Tottenham Hotspur £30.75 million September 2008
2 Rio Ferdinand Leeds United £29.3 million July 2002
3 Juan Sebastián Verón Lazio £28.1 million[44] July 2001
4 Marouane Fellaini Everton £27.5 million[45] September 2013
5 Wayne Rooney Everton £27 million August 2004
6 Robin van Persie Arsenal £24 million[46] August 2012
7 Anderson Porto £20.4 million[47] July 2007
8 Ruud van Nistelrooy PSV Eindhoven £19 million[48] June 2001
9 David de Gea Atlético Madrid £18.9 million[49] June 2011
10 Michael Carrick Tottenham Hotspur £18.6 million[50] July 2006

Not sure what that is for.........

mike65

The top 10 Utd transfers, one is from a top level side - Veron (Owen Hargreaves from Bayern is just outside the top 10). So yes Fergie prefered to lash out on "Prem proven" players and young (but not cheap) talent from elsewhere.

kippy

mike65 wrote: »

The top 10 Utd transfers, one is from a top level side - Veron (Owen Hargreaves from Bayern is just outside the top 10). So yes Fergie prefered to lash out on "Prem proven" players and young (but not cheap) talent from elsewhere.

How many of them are/were from the sides mentioned in your original post?

Point is, United haven't been willing or able to pull "top players" from "top" clubs in europe on any but a handful of occassions, Fergie or no Fergie.

mike65

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make here, maybe you should spell it out.

kippy

mike65 wrote: »

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make here, maybe you should spell it out.

Point is, United haven't been willing or able to pull "top players" from "top" clubs in europe on any but a handful of occassions, Fergie or no Fergie.

(sorry, edited the post after that)

mike65

Then we agree Maybe he just felt more comfortable paying top price for those he personally watched week in week out, rather than leave it to scouts and their judgement.

EuropeanSon

When has anyone in the league bought a top player from a top team outside the premier league? The only examples I can think of in the last decade are Veron (not quite a top team really), Balotelli, Shevchenko, and Ozil, and of those, only Ozil could be said to be in his prime.

Gbear

It's very tough to call this season.
It almost seamed a laughable notion at the start of the season but the league has change quite a bit.

1st: I rate Pellegrini extremely highly and City's team is brilliant. I think they'll wobble a bit but ultimately just about win the league.

2nd: Arsenal have got off to great start (opening day notwithstanding) and were on great form at the end of last season. They've added probably the best attacking player in the world, aside from Ronaldo and Messi, to their side. Not the place that spending 40m would've done the most good perhaps but he's a brilliant player. They've so consistently got top 4 that I just can't see them dropping out this season of all seasons.

3rd: Chelsea, despite looking **** and Mourinho being overrated I think they've got too much quality to not get top 4. I don't think they have the quality up front to win the league.

I think 4th will be between Utd and Spurs. Spurs have started very well and they've put such an exciting team together that they have to be contenders.
Utd are still very strong. It's down to what has the bigger negative impact - Spurs having to bed in so many and having a poor track record for pussying out or the post-Ferguson hangover and questionable ability of Moyes.

The only team I'd be willing to rule out from the top 4 from the top 6 teams in England is Liverpool. Not so much that they're particularly bad (they've been pretty good so far) but that it would require too many other teams with much stronger squads to be terrible.
I just can't see them edging out 2 of Chelsea, Utd and Spurs.

PhlegmyMoses

1st of 2nd imo. Way too early in the season to be making predictions, though.

FearDark

messinkiapina wrote: »

1 - Chelsea
2 - City
3 - Spurs
4 - United

Right. And where are Arsenal exactly then?

richierichballs

1. City
2. Chelsea
3. Spurs
4. Arsenal
5. Liverpool
6. Everton
7. United

Godge

EuropeanSon wrote: »

When has anyone in the league bought a top player from a top team outside the premier league? The only examples I can think of in the last decade are Veron (not quite a top team really), Balotelli, Shevchenko, and Ozil, and of those, only Ozil could be said to be in his prime.

Yaya Toure from Barcelona
Robinho from Real Madrid


It then depends on how you define a top player from a top club. Does Mertesacker from Werder Bremen count? Eden Hazard from Lille? Schurrle from Schalke?

If you want to argue it you should define what a top-player from a top-club means first as otherwise the argument will go back and forth. Do you say a multi-capped international coming from a club that regularly plays Champions League football?

If so do Aguero to Man City and Torres to Liverpool fit that definition?

PhlegmyMoses

richierichballs wrote: »

1. City
2. Chelsea
3. Spurs
4. Arsenal
5. Liverpool
6. Everton
7. United

Richierichballs: Trolling United fans with impunity since 2010.

richierichballs

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Richierichballs: Trolling United fans with impunity since 2010.

I'm not trolling, I'm entitled to my opinion just like everyone else.

I know it's very early in the season and it's impossible to tell how things are going to end up but looking at current form that's what I predict if nothing changes.

EuropeanSon

People really overrating Spurs here. They have a good squad, but they really don't have enough top class players to compete. None of Spurs players could compare with any of Rooney, Rvp, Vidic, Hazard, Oscar, Mata, Aguero, Toure, Kompany, Cazorla, Ozil, Ramsey (to pick just 3 from each of the other 4 teams). Ramsey there just purely on his insane form since about March but you could substitute Arteta if you prefer.

Lack of real top class players will prevent them from mounting a serious challenge IMO.

PhlegmyMoses

richierichballs wrote: »

I'm not trolling, I'm entitled to my opinion just like everyone else.

I know it's very early in the season and it's impossible to tell how things are going to end up but looking at current form that's what I predict if nothing changes.

Of course you are trolling. You've been at it for the last fwew months. It's cool, like, just sad that you can't admit it. Are you a grown up?

8-10

EuropeanSon wrote: »

When has anyone in the league bought a top player from a top team outside the premier league? The only examples I can think of in the last decade are Veron (not quite a top team really), Balotelli, Shevchenko, and Ozil, and of those, only Ozil could be said to be in his prime.

Veron?? That wasn't within the last decade you know....