What bits did you not understand? (Spoilers for all seasons)

Penn

folan wrote: »

yeah, it just seems strange to me that it was never made that clear, but then it probably didn't need to be, and im over analysing it to the point of confusing myself.

it just strikes me as strange that the two would operate in parallel in the same area, though both were branches of the same company.

I'd say they were likely used to keep each other in check. Besides which, Gus always avoided working with people like Tuco. That's why he initially didn't want to work with Walt because he saw how Jesse was acting.

rubadub

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

But the girl in Marty Robbins song is called Feleena not Felina

And the girl in the song is called Windy, not Wendy, phonetically similar though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_50AduGvQAU

penzo

Jikashi wrote: »

When Tuco died, Heisenberg takes over the void he left and has Jesse, Skinny Pete, Badger and Combo dispatched within Tuco's old turf. When Walt orders them to expand, they goes out into different territory manned by Gus' dealers, which is why Combo was killed. This would seem to suggest that Tuco's turf was previously separate from Gus' even before Heisenberg came on the scene. The cartel could have had the region before Gus built his empire, and because Tuco was descended from a high ranking cartel boss (Hector Salamance), that area was probably grandfather-claused as long as Salamancas operated there. Gus would not mind this as it is a negligible amount of geography in his otherwise huge empire, and to stay on somewhat amicable terms with the cartel bosses as long as Tuco and his men didn't venture outside their spot on the map.

I'm a bit blurred over the part of jessie and walt basically killing (ok hank put the final bullet) tuco and then later jessie working being sent to work with the cartel. is it expected that it was ignored as part of the deal or did they not know?

Jikashi

I watched the show as it was coming out each week from Season 2 onwards so I might be a bit rusty on the finer points, but to my recollection: the Cousins wanted to kill this Heisenberg fellow for the death of Tuco, but by the time they tracked him down as Walter White, he was working for Gus. Neither Gus nor the Cartel would allow more blood to be spilled on either side to further damage the relationship above and below the border. But the Cousins want someone to pay, so Gus diverts them to Hank instead. So after the failed assassination of Hank, from Gus' perspective he had put the Cartel and the DEA at war, which resulted in the death of that cartel boss who sent the Cousins. From the cartel's perspective, the Cousins went rogue and attacked a DEA agent without either side's say-so (I don't believe the cartel were aware of Gus giving them permission to attack Hank, and Gus has Mike silence the surviving brother so that fact will not come out) and got their faction killed by the DEA task force as a result. To mend the relationship between the cartel and Gus for the sh1t that the Cousins seemed to have caused for them both, Gus offered the peace-offering of a blue-sky cook to provide the product on both sides of the border and keep the cartel happy. Of course this was just a means of getting himself and Mike close enough to a gathering of all the cartel dons and capos to assassinate the lot of them in Salud.

Orim

That's pretty much it but the cartel were ok with the cousins killing Walt. Gus got some leeway saying he had business to finish. That's why they were hanging around.

Jikashi

Orim wrote: »

That's pretty much it but the cartel were ok with the cousins killing Walt. Gus got some leeway saying he had business to finish. That's why they were hanging around.

The cartel wouldn't have given a rat's ass if the Cousins killed Walt, but would definitely have an issue with them going after a DEA agent. Gus knew the Cousins weren't prepared to wait for his cook to be done, so took advantage of the Cousins' impatience for revenge and sicced them on Hank without the cartel's knowledge and start a war in which he would appear to be uninvolved in the eyes of both the DEA and more to the point, the cartel..

Only thing I can't remember for sure, were the Cousins aware that Hank Schrader was a DEA agent? If they were, surely they would be aware of the ****storm they would cause for the cartel if they attacked him. I know they attacked him in the DEA parking lot but Hank was in plain clothes and vehicle with no weapon.

penzo

did jessies involvement in the early days with tuco go unnoticed with the cartel and they thought he was a side person that was thought the recipe?

didn't the cartel get told by tuco when they were in the house with hector who was there?

I'm just surprised that the cartel let it slide that jessie was involved to work with him. even for such a big price it seems unlikely.

Polka_Dot

I never really understood Madrigal's involvement in the whole business. Were they actively facilitating the meth business, did they simply know about it and not do anything, or something different altogether?

mrkiscool2

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

But the girl in Marty Robbins song is called Feleena not Felina

Marty Robbins wrote a follow up song to el paso
A follow-up to 'El Paso', this tells the story of Feleena's life.
Felina is an anagram of finale Sin e Vince worked in the El paso song
later as an afterthought.

I think Vince is far to clever for it to be just an afterthought! I'd say he knew how the name was spelt, but because it sounds phonetically the same and ties in with an anagram of finale and the "Blood, Meth and Tears" explanation, it would work perfectly!

chickenboy

Polka_Dot wrote: »

I never really understood Madrigal's involvement in the whole business. Were they actively facilitating the meth business, did they simply know about it and not do anything, or something different altogether?

I got the impression that overall Madrigal were a normal company, and had no knowledge of the meth business. Gus, Lydia and the german fellow who killed himself were the only ones in on it, and used the companies infrastructure to ship product and obtain supplies on the quiet.

MOH

LionelNashe wrote: »

I think what makes it so hard to swallow is the idea that Gus would steal Jessie's ricin and use it to poison Brock. Gus would have had absolutely nothing to gain from such a bizarre act, but that is what Walt wanted Jesse to believe. I don't know why Walt ever thought that Jesse would believe it, and I don't know why Jesse did believe it.

I'm going to have to go back and watch it again, because it was a while ago and I'm getting confused between all the Walt/Jesse confrontations over the years, but wasn't it something along the lines of:

- Walt makes ricin, vial is hidden in Jesse's cigarette for him to poison Gus
- Brock gets poisoned
- Jesse discovers ricin cigarette missing, assumes it's his fault, that Brock somehow ... what?... found and ate the cigarette?
- Jesse then comes to the conclusion that Walt was responsible
- Jesse confronts Walt, is about to shoot him, when Walt manages to convince him that it was Gus
- Jesse is back on team Walt, they plot against Gus
- Eventually turns out it was lily of the valley that poisoned Brock, so Gus wasn't responsible, but doesn't matter at that stage anyway. The audience then find out it *was* Walt.

- A year later Jesse realises Huell pickpocketed his weed, therefore Huell pickpocketed his ricin cig, therefore .... Walt poisoned Brock with lily of the valley to turn him against Gus?

It all seems a bit thin. Even aspects of the original poisoning seem a little weak looking back on it. The only way it makes sense is if Saul was in on the poisoning, and Jesse beats it out of him.

ceadaoin.

MOH wrote: »

It all seems a bit thin. Even aspects of the original poisoning seem a little weak looking back on it. The only way it makes sense is if Saul was in on the poisoning, and Jesse beats it out of him.

Saul is the one who gave Brock the poison for Walter. It doesn't go into details of how he did it but him and Walter discuss it briefly in his office. He had access to him as would go there to give Andrea money on Jesses behalf.

Wanderer2010

How much time exactly elapsed between when Walt robs the car with the snow around it at the start of the finale and when he picks up the M60 in Dennys? Also, how did he even get that M60, was it an old contact from the days of Gus who he just called up and asked to have it dropped to him in the car park? That would have taken at least a day between contact and collection surely?

rubadub

http://www.vulture.com/2013/08/jesse-breaking-bad-ricin-cigarettes.html

At Comic-Con earlier this summer, BB creator Vince Gilligan explained it thusly: " I think probably what [Walt] did was crush some of the [Lilly of the Valley berries] up and put it in a juice box or something, and being a teacher, he probably knew his way around a school and he probably got into Brock's nursery school. That's our inter-story for how it would have happened. It would have been tricky."

http://www.forbes.com/sites/allenstjohn/2013/08/26/breaking-bad-511-recap-the-case-of-the-missing-backstory-or-wtf-did-jesse-realize-about-the-ricin-cigarette/

“The way we worked it out, [Walt] had just enough time to do it but it would have been very tricky indeed. It was improbable perhaps, but not impossible,” said Gilligan about the missing backstory. “But he was a very motivated individual at that point.”

Turtyturd

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

How much time exactly elapsed between when Walt robs the car with the snow around it at the start of the finale and when he picks up the M60 in Dennys? Also, how did he even get that M60, was it an old contact from the days of Gus who he just called up and asked to have it dropped to him in the car park? That would have taken at least a day between contact and collection surely?

There must have been a lot of confusion with the timeline because they outlined it on talking bad. Walt 's journey cross country took 3 days...and he got the M60 from the same guy who sold him the gun in an earlier episode.

Chet T16

Walt makes a comment to the waitress that it takes '30 hours if all you stop for is gas' which I assumed was based on him just having done it.

I think the final episode spanned 3 days total

Wanderer2010

Turtyturd wrote: »

There must have been a lot of confusion with the timeline because they outlined it on talking bad. Walt 's journey cross country took 3 days...and he got the M60 from the same guy who sold him the gun in an earlier episode.

Which gun was that, I can only recall Walt buying a gun from a guy in Season 4 episode 2, which was quiet a while back and presumably he now knows that Walt/Heisinberg is on the run so that makes him quite a 'hot' client- for all he knew they were watching Walt so dropping him a car and M60 in the middle of Dennys was a huge risk for him. Yes, I was confused about the timeline and how long it took from Walt robbing the car to going back to the house to get the ricin/meet up with Todd and Lydia. Its not a huge deal I was just curious as to the timeline of events.

Also, who was the culprit who sprayed Heisenberg in the house. At the time of Walt going on the run, he was wanted for the murder of 2 DEA agents not being the head of a meth business. The only people who knew the Heisenberg persona were the DEA, Jessie, Walt and the family and also Badger and Skinny Pete, so who sprayed it? Are we as the audience supposed to just think the rumour about Walt being Heisenberg spread and some local punk kids just sprayed it?

clairefontaine

What happened to Heisenbergs hat in the last episode?

ballsymchugh

clairefontaine wrote: »

What happened to Heisenbergs hat in the last episode?

probably didn't fit properly when he had hair :pac:

Jikashi

I guess once Walt was honest with himself that everything he did he did because he liked it, rather than feeling he had to, he no longer needed the psuedo-dual-persona divide that the Heisenberg hat represented

clairefontaine

Jikashi wrote: »

I guess once Walt was honest with himself that everything he did he did because he liked it, rather than feeling he had to, he no longer needed the psuedo-dual-persona divide that the Heisenberg hat represented

So that last episode was WW, not Heisenberg. He resigned himself to himself. Taking off the hat was the letting o of the lie?

mrkiscool2

Lads, he just left it in the hut, no other explanation than that! But no, the last episode was not just WW. The way he ruthlessly went about things was very much Heisenberg (threatening the Scwharzes, killing the neo-nazis and Jack) but he was doing it for the right reasons, the same reasons that WW, the man we met at the start of BB, would have liked to have seen (justice prevailing, getting money to his family)

LionelNashe

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

Which gun was that, I can only recall Walt buying a gun from a guy in Season 4 episode 2, which was quiet a while back and presumably he now knows that Walt/Heisinberg is on the run so that makes him quite a 'hot' client- for all he knew they were watching Walt so dropping him a car and M60 in the middle of Dennys was a huge risk for him. Yes, I was confused about the timeline and how long it took from Walt robbing the car to going back to the house to get the ricin/meet up with Todd and Lydia. Its not a huge deal I was just curious as to the timeline of events.

Also, who was the culprit who sprayed Heisenberg in the house. At the time of Walt going on the run, he was wanted for the murder of 2 DEA agents not being the head of a meth business. The only people who knew the Heisenberg persona were the DEA, Jessie, Walt and the family and also Badger and Skinny Pete, so who sprayed it? Are we as the audience supposed to just think the rumour about Walt being Heisenberg spread and some local punk kids just sprayed it?

All Hank's investigation files were in his garage, plus Marie knew some of the details.

Nerdlingr

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

Also, who was the culprit who sprayed Heisenberg in the house. At the time of Walt going on the run, he was wanted for the murder of 2 DEA agents not being the head of a meth business. The only people who knew the Heisenberg persona were the DEA, Jessie, Walt and the family and also Badger and Skinny Pete, so who sprayed it? Are we as the audience supposed to just think the rumour about Walt being Heisenberg spread and some local punk kids just sprayed it?

in short, yes. we can assume that because of the media coverage of the meth business and 2 DEA agents going missing that the public perceive that Walter White and Heisenberg are the same person. They even mention it in the interview that gretchen does on TV..." i cannot talk for this heisenberg but walter white died a long time ago" etc etc. So its obvious the "Heisenberg" name is out there and gaining notoriety....especially since his product is still on the market!

"say my name"...Heisenberg is his legacy.

bren2001

mrkiscool2 wrote: »

Lads, he just left it in the hut, no other explanation than that! But no, the last episode was not just WW. The way he ruthlessly went about things was very much Heisenberg (threatening the Scwharzes, killing the neo-nazis and Jack) but he was doing it for the right reasons, the same reasons that WW, the man we met at the start of BB, would have liked to have seen (justice prevailing, getting money to his family)

He was hardly doing it for the right reasons, unless we watched different shows. He never got his money back of the Nazi's and he accepted that he did it all for himself because he enjoyed it.

In the final 8 episodes WW didn't exist any more, all we ever saw was Heisenberg.

Chet T16

One thing that I never got, or missed...

Walt went to Jack and agreed to do one cook in exchange for killing Jesse.

After Hank was killed Walt says to Jack "What about Pinkman, you owe me" or similar. I thought at that point it was pretty obvious that Walt wasn't going to be doing a cook for them so the deal was off nevermind Jack owing him anything. Am I missing something?

mrkiscool2

bren2001 wrote: »

He was hardly doing it for the right reasons, unless we watched different shows. He never got his money back of the Nazi's and he accepted that he did it all for himself because he enjoyed it.

In the final 8 episodes WW didn't exist any more, all we ever saw was Heisenberg.

Sorry, right reasons definitely wasn't the right expression to use there. But it was certainly more pure than most of his justifications for killing anyone since he ran over the two gang members for Jesse.

And I think we caught a brief 10 minute glimpse of WW in Granite state when he is pleading for Vacuum Repair guy to stay and when he is in the bar about to accept his fate. However, as was seen in the finale when no-one seemed to notice them until he was literally right there (Including the audience) in our/their face, WW was dead. All that was left was Heisenberg trapped in a ghosts body.

clairefontaine

bren2001 wrote: »

He was hardly doing it for the right reasons, unless we watched different shows. He never got his money back of the Nazi's and he accepted that he did it all for himself because he enjoyed it.

In the final 8 episodes WW didn't exist any more, all we ever saw was Heisenberg.

I don't buy this Jeklly/Hyde theory.

It was always WW, Heisenberg persona was part of his self delusions/rationalisations. We see this final resignation in the last episode when he stops wearing his hat.

I knew the Nazis would end up dead. It's an unwritten rule on A,merican TV the Nazis have to die.

Wanderer2010

I dont understand why Lydia didnt seek medical help the moment she was told about the ricin- she was sick but still fairly lucid as can be seen in the phone conversation. If she had rang for an ambulance there and then, could her stomach have been pumped out and maybe the effects reversed. In short, is there any way she could survive?

Neil McCauleys Cooler Brother

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

I dont understand why Lydia didnt seek medical help the moment she was told about the ricin- she was sick but still fairly lucid as can be seen in the phone conversation. If she had rang for an ambulance there and then, could her stomach have been pumped out and maybe the effects reversed. In short, is there any way she could survive?

How do you know she didn't?

MOH

Why of all possible surnames was Walt given his new identity using Skyler's maiden name?

Jikashi

Because he knew it would end up being the only link to the woman he still loves but can never be with again. He could equally have picked Mr Flynn or Mr Gale<3

April O Neill

mrkiscool2 wrote: »

and the "Blood, Meth and Tears" explanation, it would work perfectly!

The 'Blood, Meth and Tears' thing seems like total crap to me.

mrkiscool2

April O Neill wrote: »

The 'Blood, Meth and Tears' thing seems like total crap to me.

OK, that's great. An explanation would be even better!

April O Neill

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

I dont understand why Lydia didnt seek medical help the moment she was told about the ricin- she was sick but still fairly lucid as can be seen in the phone conversation. If she had rang for an ambulance there and then, could her stomach have been pumped out and maybe the effects reversed. In short, is there any way she could survive?

She would have sought medical attention, no doubt. But at that stage, it would have been too late.

clairefontaine

April O Neill wrote: »

She would have sought medical attention, no doubt. But at that stage, it would have been too late.

Well if they choose to go the route of Sex and the City and Atrested Development, and follow up with a movie, they've left many opportunities open for themselves.

The viewers don't know whether or not she she sought medical attention.

April O Neill

clairefontaine wrote: »

The viewers don't know whether or not she she sought medical attention.

Obviously we don't know for sure that she did.

bren2001

clairefontaine wrote: »

Well if they choose to go the route of Sex and the City and Atrested Development, and follow up with a movie, they've left many opportunities open for themselves.

The viewers don't know whether or not she she sought medical attention.

How could they do a movie? WW is dead, everybody is dead bar Jessie and (in a ridiculous turn of events) Lydia. I would have to presume that it was too late for her, why would Walt tell her if she could save herself?

That Arrested Development movie has been in "the works" for years.

Wanderer2010

I researched ricin and apparently the symptoms dont kick in for at least a day by which time its too late as its already in your bloodstream, there is no hope for Lydia because even pumping her stomach is too little too late the damage was done and there is currently no cure for ricin poisoning..

Jikashi

bren2001 wrote: »

How could they do a movie?

30 years later Walt Junior pulls a Harry Osborn when he finds himself short of cash and happens upon his father old notes...

Vaxxine

mrkiscool2 wrote: »

OK, that's great. An explanation would be even better!

I'll give you one. Someone, somewhere, came up with the idea, "Oh daayum, Fe-Li-Na...Blood, Meth, Tears", thinking they were deadly and how clever this was. They proceeded to post this on the web, it spread like wild fire, everyone jumped on the bandwagon, thinking this was genius.

Eeehhh, no, 'Finale' is nothing more than an anagram of 'Felina', which itself is an alteration of the name 'Feleena', who was the girl in the song by Marty Robbins.

Thank you, I'm here all week.

Turpentine

clairefontaine wrote: »

Well if they choose to go the route of Sex and the City and Atrested Development, and follow up with a movie, they've left many opportunities open for themselves.

The viewers don't know whether or not she she sought medical attention.

Jesse's first post-escape tri...illusion could be stealing the corpse of Walter White and resurrecting him for a skinny-latte-fueled shopping trip.

I'd buy that for a dollar.

April O Neill

I'm not clear on why the whole Marie klepto storyline was included. Anyone want to fill me in?

clairefontaine

April O Neill wrote: »

I'm not clear on why the whole Marie klepto storyline was included. Anyone want to fill me in?

Because no one in this show is black or white. Everyone has to do something naughty.

Turpentine

April O Neill wrote: »

I'm not clear on why the whole Marie klepto storyline was included. Anyone want to fill me in?

I think that it was introduced to flesh out the characters of both Marie and Hank. i.e that she's not a Stepford wife and that he has conflicts of interest as a law enforcer.

If I recall correctly that was before Hank went to Mexico. After Hank got a bit shell-shocked it gave the writers something a bit more interesting to do with the characters.

I think. It's been a while since I've watched the earlier seasons, and the klepto story-line was very fleeting.

GerB40

ken wrote: »

I understand that, Why Flynn though?

There's a family of Flynns down the road from where I live and I'm pretty sure they're all crack heads. Maybe it's a dig at them??

GerB40

April O Neill wrote: »

Obviously we don't know for sure that she did.

But in the grand scheme of things, does it really matter if Lydia died or not? We effectively see the whole story through Walts eyes and as far as he knows Lydia ingested the ricin and by the time they had their little chat, she was feeling the effects. Walt went on to die so all other storylines become irrelevant because the viewers don't have a 'window' into the story anymore.

Neil McCauleys Cooler Brother

April O Neill wrote: »

I'm not clear on why the whole Marie klepto storyline was included. Anyone want to fill me in?

One of the reasons was to give Skyler one of the first opportunities to show that Walt is not the only master of manipulation in that family. Remember the scene where she tries to return Marie's gift (which was a - stolen - tiara)? Skyler puts on some show, and manipulates her way out of a tricky situation. Then we get the whole Trixie Delight performance for the auditors of Beneke's company (very hard for an intelligent person to act dumb - she does it). And, so, it isn't quite out of the blue when Skyler is manipulating a master manipulator to off his surrogate son later on.

mrkiscool2

Vaxxine wrote: »

I'll give you one. Someone, somewhere, came up with the idea, "Oh daayum, Fe-Li-Na...Blood, Meth, Tears", thinking they were deadly and how clever this was. They proceeded to post this on the web, it spread like wild fire, everyone jumped on the bandwagon, thinking this was genius.

Eeehhh, no, 'Finale' is nothing more than an anagram of 'Felina', which itself is an alteration of the name 'Feleena', who was the girl in the song by Marty Robbins.

Thank you, I'm here all week.

Well then, guess some people underestimate Vince Gilligan sometimes! Again, you are more than entitled to your opinion as I am to mine. While that may seem like a cop out I genuinely believe that it does mean Blood Meth and Tears as well as the other two. All 3 have been a major factor in the story, and there was more in this episode as well (Jesse making the meth while tied up)

evolving_doors

mrkiscool2 wrote: »

Well then, guess some people underestimate Vince Gilligan sometimes! Again, you are more than entitled to your opinion as I am to mine. While that may seem like a cop out I genuinely believe that it does mean Blood Meth and Tears as well as the other two. All 3 have been a major factor in the story, and there was more in this episode as well (Jesse making the meth while tied up)

Maybe Fe_Li_Na has something to do with egyptian gods...no wait thats lost...mmmm maybe if you watch all of Breaking Bad whilst listening to pink floyd ...mm