Adox: Starting with a DE thread

adox

adox wrote: »

Well that was quick. Ordered yesterday at lunchtime and arrived here in work just after 9.00am!!


Is it wrong to be excited about shaving gear arriving??

Well tonight's the night I break my de razor virginity! Usually shave in the morning before work, but decided for my first effort at least, I should shave the night before so A. I give myself as much time as I want and B. Giving the nicks and cuts a few hours to heal before going to work. I'm sure they are bound to happen despite my best efforts tonight.

adox

adox wrote: »

Well tonight's the night I break my de razor virginity! Usually shave in the morning before work, but decided for my first effort at least, I should shave the night before so A. I give myself as much time as I want and B. Giving the nicks and cuts a few hours to heal before going to work. I'm sure they are bound to happen despite my best efforts tonight.

Well that didnt go too well. A bit of a blood bath!!! Well maybe no quite, but certainly a lot of cuts.

Firstly, I think I got the lather wrong. Seemed to be a good consistency initially but I think it was to wet. It was certainly coming off my face too easily when shaving, falling off as the blade went down.
Also I`m sure the angle I was shaving at was incorrect too. Too straight. I`m so used to shaving with multi-blades that the habit with them will be hard to shake.

My brush as well this morning is looking a bit splayed out. Maybe I was a bit too aggressive with it in both making and applying the lather? Also how long do they usually take to dry? I shaved around 11pm last night and it still wasnt dry this morning when I got up.

I`ll keep going. Going to continue to shave at night until I really get the hang of it. It really is a different experience to shaving with a Mac 3!

beardybrewer

Don't worry, you'll get the hang of it. I've been doing DE for over a year and am still working on my lather. Soap is cheap so don't be afraid to practice. Likewise if it doesn't work well for you use it in the shower or toss it. Try the build technique: using a well shook brush load the brush for upwards of 1 minute. You're aiming for a paste like consistency. Now whether you use a bowl or face lather is up to you but the general idea is to add a 2-3 drops and build the lather. You're going for yoghurt and shouldn't see microbubbles or you've gone too wet.

The brush is going to "bloom" as you start using it. Don't worry. Just remember when lathering you can use a pretty light touch. The bristles will splay and a sort of vacuum forms in the centre which is beneficial to the lathering process.

Depending on the quality and density of the bristles, a good brush can take 2 days to dry out. I clean like this: Rinse, gentle squeeze, shake out in shower, "lather" on towel, dry handle, one last shake, and hang in a well ventilated area.

Keep it up and you won't look back.

adox

Just another of questions if you dont mind:

Are you guys using shaving bowls or just an ordinary bowl/mug for lathering?
I just took an old cereal bowl to use for the time being.

What about storing the brush? I just have mine free standing, hairs up on its handle.

beardybrewer

Personally I face lather. Next time you're in Tesco pick up a Palmolive soap stick for 65p. Wet face, apply, lather with medium wet brush.... instant rich lather explodes on your face!

So, in case you didn't know, the soap stays in it's own bowl/container and you lather in another. When I was new, I thought I'd just have a 1 mug with the soap puck at the bottom. Turns out most people have a separate container for the soap, "load the brush", then lather up in a separate empty mug/bowl. Generally any mug will do. I used a cappuccino cup for the first month before switching to face lathering.

Homework: http://www.youtube.com/user/mantic59

Standing the brush on it's handle (bristles up) is fine as long as there is good airflow around it (not in the press). If it was a very nice brush I might worry about the water saturating the knot in the handle. If you're worried, the next time you place an order pick up one of those plastic stands for about €3.

http://www.shaving.ie/products/muhle-selection-of-shaving-brush-holders.html

adox

Second shave and not good again. Lots of cuts and a red neck. Lather again was to watery I think.
Really finding it difficult getting used to the DE razor. Seems like I could cut myself at any stage. Going to persevere anyway.

Dumped the blade I put in it(came with the Muhle razor). Going to try one from the sample blade pack, concentrate on getting a nice thick lather first time and going as gently as I can.

Did three passes and still not really that close a shave. Sore face and neck and bleeders that are hard to stop.

At least I can only get better(hopefully):)

MadsL

Remember - No Pressure! Let the razor's weight do the work.

adox

MadsL wrote: »

Remember - No Pressure! Let the razor's weight do the work.

Yeah, its hard not to after years of Mach 3 etc. The lather, the pressure and the angle are probably what I need to work on most(nearly everything haha).

I usually shave everyday for work but I think I`m going to give my face at least one day off as its a bit sore with a few nicks that were bleeders and need to heel a bit.

The razor head seems to knock the lather off my face rather easily, if that makes sense. I start off from the sideburns down and more lather will have gone from my face than I have covered with the blade. Either the lather is too loose or my face is too wet?

As said, I`m going to persevere. I think I will concentrate on having a shave without any cuts and nicks first and foremost, rather than the closeness of the shave.

I am finding the DE razor very unforgiving. As said my face is quite sore this morning, but I will get there hopefully in the end.

beardybrewer

You won't find a lot of fans for Derby blades. Try another from your sample pack and change them after 2 or 3 shaves.

Sounds like you should take a day off. Try a couple of test lathers. Watch the mantic59 vids and keep asking questions.

Gran Hermano

Adox, really sounds like you have too much water in the lather and it is too thin. This is why it's not giving you the cushion and protection from the blade.

You're doing the right thing by shaving the night before and taking your time rather than rushing in the morning whilst still learning the technique.

Make sure you have a shower beforehand to soften the stubble. Apply the pre-shave and leave it on your face for a couple of minutes (use the time to brush your teeth or whip up your lather).

Immerse the brush in warm (not boiling) water for a minute, shake dry. Add a small amount of Proraso and a couple of drops of water to your shaving bowl. Start whipping up the lather.
If it is too stiff/thick add water a couple of drops at a time until it loosens up. Spend a minute or two creating the lather. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dd7Aj9vwrtc

Apply the lather on top of the pre-shave cream - no need to rinse off the pre-shave cream.
Hold the razor with the head flat against your skin and the handle at 90 degrees. Rotate down until you feel the blade engage - handle should be around 30 degrees at this stage.
Use short strokes and zero pressure/weight on the razor. Let the weight of the razor and sharpness of the blade do the work. When finished the with the grain pass, re-apply lather
and shave across the grain using light short strokes. Hold off on against the grain passes until you figure out razor angle and lather fully.

Never run the razor over skin that does not have a covering of lather on it!

When finished, rinse face with cold water and apply whatever post-shave/after shave you want.

No need for a brush stand. Rinse the brush with warm water and gently shake dry.
You can also help dry by running it across a towel. Stand it up right somewhere where it can
air dry.

Gran Hermano

Just to add, try a Personna or Astra blade from the starter pack.

source

If you're having a problem with the angle of the razor, place the top cover against your face then slowly change the angle until the blade is touching the skin. This will be the perfect angle for shaving.

Remember to try to lock your wrist to hold the angle, and don't drag the blade across your face, the razor is heavy for a reason, let the weight do the cutting while you guide it with your hand.

You will need to practice a bit before you get it right, if you have some Gillette 7 O'Clock greens in your sample pack give them a try, I found them good when I was starting.

adox

Thanks for all the detailed replies and advice, its much appreciated.
I was using the blade that came in the pack with the Muhle R89 but tossed it last night.

As said, I`m going to have a night off tonight to let my face repair a bit and then go back to it tomorrow night. Will have a look in my blade pack for the ones recommended above and try them and also of course, take heed of the tips given here.:)

markesmith

No pressure on the razor, and +1 on the Derby blade not being good. Try something else. I worked up to Feather, but best get your technique right before you try those beasts!

adox

Well just finished my third DE razor shave and this one was, although not perfect, much much better than the previous two.
I actually took a day off shaving yesterday, I had that many nicks and bleeders from my previous efforts, not to mention a sore neck.

Tonight I concentrated as much as I could on the angle of the razor, taking advice from previous posters and starting with the razor on my cheek perpendicular to the ground and then lowering it downwards until I felt the blade on my skin. Short light strokes using both sides of the head, cleaning it in water regularly.

Did two passes with the grain and the one pass on face only across the grain as the neck felt ok.

It wasn't without problems. I had a couple of small bleeds but nothing in the ballpark of the previous two efforts and nothing that didn't stop quickly. The sides of my neck are a bit red so obviously need to be more careful there, be it less pressure, angle of razor head etc.
The shave isn't an extremely close shave either. The neck is more or less cleaned though and re lathered around the cheeks in patches and went against the grain to clean them up so they are mostly clear. Under the chin has stubble left, not particularly visible to the eye but feels rough to the touch. I managed to cut myself three or four times under the chin area on the previous efforts so I didn't want to go back to it and was happy to leave it as it was.

My main objective tonight was to manage a shave with as little damage as possible. The closeness of the shave was secondary and can be worked on when I get a consistent run of cut free shaves.

I'm really happy with tonight's effort to be honest. After doing so much damage in my disastrous first couple of attempts I was very wary tonight. I expected more bleeders to be honest. There was still a lot of damage left from my previous hack jobs and I expected more of them to reopen and they didn't so a real plus.

The redness in the sides of the neck is a concern. So think I will try and have to figure out what's going on and correct.

Used the Personna blade for the first time tonight and much more successful with it than the Derby used on the previous two occasions. I think it was a combination of me concentrating more this time and the blade being a little more forgiving than the Derby.

Used Proraso pre/post shave cream before the shave and Proraso shave cream for the shave itself. Cold rinse and a rub with Bloc Osma Alum block, rinsed off after a couple of minutes and then a bit of attention to two slightly bleeding nicks with a styptic pencil.

I just used some Baylis and Harding moisturiser that I had on the face afterwards. Should I consider picking up a specialised post shave lotion instead. If so any recommendations?

Gran Hermano

Glad to hear of your progress. The personna reds are a nice balance of sharpness and smoothness starting out and are relatively forgiving. Get used to the weight of the razor and angle before striving for an ultra close shave. It'll come in a week or so.

Are you using your non-razor hand to stretch the skin ahead of the razor pass?

Hold off buying loads of products, you have what you need. Too much can also cause irritation/sensitivity.
(Yes I know I'm a hypocritical sod who's constantly buying gear I don't need).

adox

Gran Hermano wrote: »

Glad to hear of your progress. The personna reds are a nice balance of sharpness and smoothness starting out and are relatively forgiving. Get used to the weight of the razor and angle before striving for an ultra close shave. It'll come in a week or so.

There's actually two different types of Personna blades that came with the kit I bought. Didn't actually look to see what which I put in, just made sure it was a Personna as suggested.

Gran Hermano wrote: »

Are you using your non-razor hand to stretch the skin ahead of the razor pass?

I was and I wasn't. Did a bit on my face but not on my neck. Was wrapped up in concentrating on angles and pressure.

Gran Hermano wrote: »

Hold off buying loads of products, you have what you need. Too much can also cause irritation/sensitivity.
(Yes I know I'm a hypocritical sod who's constantly buying gear I don't need).

Yeah probably right. Was just wondering if a specialist post shave balm would help more with the redness on the neck than a regular moisturiser.

jpb1974

Other than Proraso you still haven't mentioned your pre-shave prep? A hot shower before hand is great for prepping your stubble for shaving.

Regarding your neck - This can be a tough area to get right... been there, have the t-shirt. First thing to do is figure out the direction of the hair growth on your neck. Mine goes sideways from my Adam's apple towards my ear, so I have to approach how I shave that area differently when considering things like with the grain, across the grain etc.

Also - maybe give the Alum block a miss after your next shave... for some it can cause skin irritation, I know it irritates me a little. Also, if you do insist on using one, wash it off after 2 minutes with cold water.

Plenty of cold water when you're finished shaving is also a good post shave practice. It will close your pores and cool your skin.

Regarding post shave moisturizer - something as common as Nivea post shave balm should be fine. I recently found a bottle (the white sensitive skin version I think) that I got in a set at Christmas's ago and have been using it the past few weeks and it's quite good. Other than that I typically use one of the Proraso post shave balms which would be about 2-3 times more expensive (circa €4-5 for Nivea, €12 for Proraso).

Gran Hermano

+1 on the alum could be causing the irritation.
Different products work differently for everyone and alum doesnt work great for me.
I could never use alum like some people do whereby the apply it and leave it on the skin.
Even if I use it and rinse it off afterwards there are days when it can irritate.

Try a light balm or see if you can pick up a cheap bottle of witch hazel in the pharmacy.
http://mccabespharmacy.com/shop/pharmacy-brand-witch-hazel-ireland-5078.html

beardybrewer

adox wrote: »

The closeness of the shave was secondary and can be worked on when I get a consistent run of cut free shaves.

Glad you said it so I don't have to! You're still doing 2+ passes, I would try to keep it to 1 pass w/ touch-ups for now.

adox wrote: »

The redness in the sides of the neck is a concern. So think I will try and have to figure out what's going on and correct.

Look closely at the grain of your beard on your neck and try shaving with the grain to minimize discomfort. For me, I'm moving the razor parallel with my jawline outwards towards the ear.

adox wrote: »

Used Proraso pre/post shave cream before the shave and Proraso shave cream for the shave itself. Cold rinse and a rub with Bloc Osma Alum block, rinsed off after a couple of minutes and then a bit of attention to two slightly bleeding nicks with a styptic pencil.

Proraso is great stuff, although I don't bother with it for preshave. Really, the lather and a sharp blade is all you need. Remember to pick up a 65p stick of Palmolive from Tesco. It's a great beginner's soap as it lather's so easily and offers great protection. I like Proraso as a cool refreshing balm post shave. However, when my neck gets irritated I tend to use a splash with a good sting to disinfect any little cuts and knicks. Alum blocks are great when you are beginning as they give you great feedback. Just remember to wash it off after 30 seconds.

adox wrote: »

Should I consider picking up a specialised post shave lotion instead. If so any recommendations?

Nope, any store bought moisturiser is fine. Keep your money for aftershave or cologne.

beardybrewer

Post shave routine vid I found useful when I started: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MiQOx3dPVg

adox

jpb1974 wrote: »

Other than Proraso you still haven't mentioned your pre-shave prep? A hot shower before hand is great for prepping your stubble for shaving.

Last night I just splashed my face with hot water for a couple of minutes and then applied the Proraso pre/post shave lotion.

jpb1974 wrote: »

Regarding your neck - This can be a tough area to get right... been there, have the t-shirt. First thing to do is figure out the direction of the hair growth on your neck. Mine goes sideways from my Adam's apple towards my ear, so I have to approach how I shave that area differently when considering things like with the grain, across the grain etc.

I need to have a closed inspection of it to figure out the direction of the hair growth. I`m pretty sure its more or less chin to neck. The thing is, when I used cartridges for God knows how many years I always started off on the neck and shaved as what I perceived as against the grain on the first pass, from the bottom of the neck up to the chin. I`m now doing the opposite and shaving from the chin to the bottom of the neck.

jpb1974 wrote: »

Also - maybe give the Alum block a miss after your next shave... for some it can cause skin irritation, I know it irritates me a little. Also, if you do insist on using one, wash it off after 2 minutes with cold water.

I only used the Alum block for the first time last night. I had redness on the neck on the two shaves previous to last night so dont think its the Alum black. Also my neck was red last night before the Alum block was applied. I found using it quite refreshing and it seemed to clear up the two little nicks I had agitated again from previous shaves.

jpb1974 wrote: »

Plenty of cold water when you're finished shaving is also a good post shave practice. It will close your pores and cool your skin.

Yeah I have been doing this. After cleaning the lather off my face with hot water and towel drying, I applied plent of cold water, applied the Alum block and left it for two minutes, then washed it off with plent more cold water.

jpb1974 wrote: »

Regarding post shave moisturizer - something as common as Nivea post shave balm should be fine. I recently found a bottle (the white sensitive skin version I think) that I got in a set at Christmas's ago and have been using it the past few weeks and it's quite good. Other than that I typically use one of the Proraso post shave balms which would be about 2-3 times more expensive (circa €4-5 for Nivea, €12 for Proraso).

Thats good to know. I`m still working my way through last years Christmas presents and theres a few bottles of moisturizer still left.:)

adox

Gran Hermano wrote: »

+1 on the alum could be causing the irritation.
Different products work differently for everyone and alum doesnt work great for me.
I could never use alum like some people do whereby the apply it and leave it on the skin.
Even if I use it and rinse it off afterwards there are days when it can irritate.

Try a light balm or see if you can pick up a cheap bottle of witch hazel in the pharmacy.
http://mccabespharmacy.com/shop/pharmacy-brand-witch-hazel-ireland-5078.html

I think I`m ok with the Alum block. Face was red after the shave and didnt get worse when the Alum was applied. I found it quite refreshing and it seemed to help the little damage that I did.

What way are you applying the witch hazel? Ive used it before for spot treatment, dabbing some onto them with tissue but never as a face treatment. Are you pouring some into your hands neat and spreading it over face and neck?

adox

newkie wrote: »

Post shave routine vid I found useful when I started: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MiQOx3dPVg

Thanks for that. Will have a look at it later (lunchtime).

adox

newkie wrote: »

Glad you said it so I don't have to! You're still doing 2+ passes, I would try to keep it to 1 pass w/ touch-ups for now.

I`ll see how I go with the next shave. If I can get it that one pass and touch up is acceptable then I will leave it at that until I am more comfortable and consistent with my technique. I do have quite heavy growth though, usually shave everyday.

newkie wrote: »

Look closely at the grain of your beard on your neck and try shaving with the grain to minimize discomfort. For me, I'm moving the razor parallel with my jawline outwards towards the ear.

yeah I`m going to have a better loo at it tonight.

newkie wrote: »

Proraso is great stuff, although I don't bother with it for preshave. Really, the lather and a sharp blade is all you need. Remember to pick up a 65p stick of Palmolive from Tesco. It's a great beginner's soap as it lather's so easily and offers great protection. I like Proraso as a cool refreshing balm post shave. However, when my neck gets irritated I tend to use a splash with a good sting to disinfect any little cuts and knicks. Alum blocks are great when you are beginning as they give you great feedback. Just remember to wash it off after 30 seconds.

I have a tub of Proraso pre/post shave cream so might as well use it.:) Also have a large tube of the Proraso shaving cream so wont need to think about buying soap for a while.

newkie wrote: »

Nope, any store bought moisturiser is fine. Keep your money for aftershave or cologne.

Good to know.:)

Gran Hermano

adox wrote: »

What way are you applying the witch hazel? Ive used it before for spot treatment, dabbing some onto them with tissue but never as a face treatment. Are you pouring some into your hands neat and spreading it over face and neck?

I use witch hazel as a post shave treatment. After splashing/rinsing with cold water I will apply the witch hazel.
I use it instead of alum or after shave. You can splash it on like an aftershave. I use a small spray bottle I picked up in the travel section of Boots. Witch hazel is an astringent. It can help reduce any inflammation/redness.

Insect Overlord

My technique improved a lot after I bought a shaving mirror. One side of it has 3x magnification so you can see everything in much more detail. I don't use it too often now, but it was a great tool to have in the bag last year.

adox

Better shave again tonight overall. Had a shower beforehand which I'm sure helped. Had a few spots of blood here and there but nothing serious. Did two passes and touched up two areas and it's the cleanest shave I've had so far so good news there.

The bad news is I'm still getting a red rash on the sides of my neck. The middle of the neck is fine, just both sides, especially my left side. I'm going to have to try and figure this one out. Gonna study my lower neck and see if I'm not going with the grain and maybe have west to East growth there or visa versa.
It's a weird one because I never suffered from it when using a cartridge. With a cartridge I went from neck to chin first and then chin to neck. With the DE razor I'm going chin to neck and then side of the neck to the middle of the neck.

I'm also wondering could it be a reaction to one of the products I'm using? They are all new to my face, from the Proraso pre/post shave cream to the Proraso shaving cream and I even have considered the brush could be causing irritation.

It's a shame cause I'm finally starting to feel that I am starting to get the hang of DE shaving but the rash is a bit of a pain.

Anyway weekend coming up so going to give my face another break for it and hopefully the rash subsides.

I may reconsider the direction of my neck shave before going down the road of trying different creams etc.

Could be all down to technique of course but as said the middle of the neck is fine as are the upper parts.

beardybrewer

Well, a few thoughts:

• You are changing the direction you used to shave so give your face some time to adjust
  
• You might be going across or against the grain. Keep studying your beard.
  
• I'm guessing you're right handed? Hence the irritation on your left is worse. Work on your angle.
  
• Apply ZERO pressure on these sensitive areas, seriously, zero pressure.
  
• There should be no tug or pull on your skin. Hold your skin taught and work on your lather / change soaps if you notice any tug at all.
  
• Are you shaving your neck last? When taking your time your lather can thin out by the time you get to your neck. Try doing your neck first or reapply a dob of lather.
  
• Eliminate Proraso out of the equation, in particular the mentholated pre/post cream, to see if it is a reaction to that. There is no law saying that you must use a brush and soap. Use whatever shaving cream product you used to use with cartridges but continue with the DE razor. Then reintroduce proraso (or palmolive damnit!). Then pre/post. Again, you don't need any pre shaving product.
  
• Some people love scrubby brushes and others just can't take em. If you are bowl lathering this is less of an issue as you can vary how much brush time your face gets. Of course, a big benefit of the brush is keeping those follicles lifted and stopping ingrown hairs. But you can eliminate it form the equation temporarily by using canned goo.
  
• You've had 2 goes, change that blade.

adox

newkie wrote: »

Well, a few thoughts:

• You are changing the direction you used to shave so give your face some time to adjust
  
• You might be going across or against the grain. Keep studying your beard.
  
• I'm guessing you're right handed? Hence the irritation on your left is worse. Work on your angle.
  
• Apply ZERO pressure on these sensitive areas, seriously, zero pressure.
  
• There should be no tug or pull on your skin. Hold your skin taught and work on your lather / change soaps if you notice any tug at all.
  
• Are you shaving your neck last? When taking your time your lather can thin out by the time you get to your neck. Try doing your neck first or reapply a dob of lather.
  
• Eliminate Proraso out of the equation, in particular the mentholated pre/post cream, to see if it is a reaction to that. There is no law saying that you must use a brush and soap. Use whatever shaving cream product you used to use with cartridges but continue with the DE razor. Then reintroduce proraso (or palmolive damnit!). Then pre/post. Again, you don't need any pre shaving product.
  
• Some people love scrubby brushes and others just can't take em. If you are bowl lathering this is less of an issue as you can vary how much brush time your face gets. Of course, a big benefit of the brush is keeping those follicles lifted and stopping ingrown hairs. But you can eliminate it form the equation temporarily by using canned goo.
  
• You've had 2 goes, change that blade.

Thanks for the detailed response. You are correct I am right handed, so that makes sense.I`m going to take the weekend off and not shave til Sunday night, try and give my face time to recover. Thinking back the minute I went over the area for the first time there were instant little spots of blood that disappeared just as quick. Perhaps a sign that its my technique?

I shave my face first and then the neck so I will try the other way around this time. Lathering in a bowl rather than on the face.
The pre/post shave I`m using isnt the menthol Proraso, its green tea or something like that but I will leave it out next time.

Ive been dabbing the affected areas with a witch hazel "witch stick" which is helping with the redness but I do have lots of little red spots on the neck.

Might even pick up some Palmolive and try that out!

rhonin

adox wrote: »

Thanks for the detailed response. You are correct I am right handed, so that makes sense.I`m going to take the weekend off and not shave til Sunday night, try and give my face time to recover. Thinking back the minute I went over the area for the first time there were instant little spots of blood that disappeared just as quick. Perhaps a sign that its my technique?

I shave my face first and then the neck so I will try the other way around this time. Lathering in a bowl rather than on the face.
The pre/post shave I`m using isnt the menthol Proraso, its green tea or something like that but I will leave it out next time.

Ive been dabbing the affected areas with a witch hazel "witch stick" which is helping with the redness but I do have lots of little red spots on the neck.

Might even pick up some Palmolive and try that out!

I had a similar problem with my neck when I first started out. For me it was down to a combination of bad lather and blade angle. It took me a while to get both right. Give it time and you will get it. I nearly gave up on it but glad I didn't.
I always shower before a shave and leave my face dripping wet. I also find Proraso pre/post cream very good for cooling my skin after a shave. Everyone is different though so you need to find what works for you.