Kids playing in the front garden?

um7y1h83ge06nx

Ray Palmer wrote: »

It is up to the OP but it still remains a minor annoyance. It is not considered perfectly acceptable in polite society to ruin a child play time over a minor annoyance.

It has to be done...

OldNotWIse

Ray Palmer wrote: »

It is up to the OP but it still remains a minor annoyance. It is not considered perfectly acceptable in polite society to ruin a child play time over a minor annoyance.

Never said they have no legal right but being social or not has it's own consequences and rules. If your parents saw violence as appropriate maybe they didn't teach you other social niceties

You say minor annoyance, we say illegal. Minor annoyance is subjective so can vary from one poster to another. Thankfully the law is clear, so your opinion does not change that.

I have no idea what your second paragraph is even about.

djimi

Ray Palmer wrote: »

It is up to the OP but it still remains a minor annoyance. It is not considered perfectly acceptable in polite society to ruin a child play time over a minor annoyance.

Never said they have no legal right but being social or not has it's own consequences and rules. If your parents saw violence as appropriate maybe they didn't teach you other social niceties

Im not even talking about legalities; from my own point of view I wouldnt want someone elses kids in my garden, end of story. Its not a minor annoyance; I dont want to have to deal with them if they hurt themselves on my property, nor do I want to have to deal with their parents should they damage any of my property. I dont give a toss about whether or not I ruin their play time, not do I care how society sees me for that matter! If you think that you must allow every kid in the yard free reign to come into your garden as they please in order for you to keep up the appearance of being social then you must live in a very strange area!

OldNotWIse

djimi wrote: »

Im not even talking about legalities; from my own point of view I wouldnt want someone elses kids in my garden, end of story. Its not a minor annoyance; I dont want to have to deal with them if they hurt themselves on my property, nor do I want to have to deal with their parents should they damage any of my property. I dont give a toss about whether or not I ruin their play time, not do I care how society sees me for that matter! If you think that you must allow every kid in the yard free reign to come into your garden as they please in order for you to keep up the appearance of being social then you must live in a very strange area!

I had great playtimes when I was a kid, and I didn't need to trespass to do so.

Ray Palmer

OldNotWIse wrote: »

You say minor annoyance, we say illegal. Minor annoyance is subjective so can vary from one poster to another. Thankfully the law is clear, so your opinion does not change that.

I have no idea what your second paragraph is even about.

Did I ever say the law wasn't clear? My opinion of being social does make a difference as you will find others who actually like children will feel much more strongly about their kids.

The poster I replied to said their parents would hit them if they went into somebody's garden for no good reason. You don't seem to understand the difference between the law and being social. You can't even see I haven't at and point said there is a legal allowance for it.

Yes by all means overblow all the possible consequences and yell about how legally the OP is right. That always works out well and comes across as reasonable.

@Super-sonic
It is overly used anyway and not even correctly used in this case.

OldNotWIse

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Did I ever say the law wasn't clear? My opinion of being social does make a difference as you will find others who actually like children will feel much more strongly about their kids.

The poster I replied to said their parents would hit them if they went into somebody's garden for no good reason. You don't seem to understand the difference between the law and being social. You can't even see I haven't at and point said there is a legal allowance for it.

Yes by all means overblow all the possible consequences and yell about how legally the OP is right. That always works out well and comes across as reasonable.

@Super-sonic
It is overly used anyway and not even correctly used in this case.

Well....every time someone mentions the fact that something is in fact, illegal, you start to go on about how its "sociable" to let kids play in your garden (or something to that effect).

What "consequences" are you talking about? There are "consequences" now for not allowing children run past your window all day? Jeeeeeeez where do you live??

ps you do realise that the law and being sociable are not mutually exclusive? I think it would be reasonable for parents not to allow their children to run riot on other peoples properties...then perhaps you can have a go at OP for perceived shortcomings in that department.

Ray Palmer

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Well....every time someone mentions the fact that something is in fact, illegal, you start to go on about how its "sociable" to let kids play in your garden (or something to that effect).

What "consequences" are you talking about? There are "consequences" now for not allowing children run past your window all day? Jeeeeeeez where do you live??

ps you do realise that the law and being sociable are not mutually exclusive? I think it would be reasonable for parents not to allow their children to run riot on other peoples properties...then perhaps you can have a go at OP for perceived shortcomings in that department.

Yes in the massive amount of posts I have put up here I have insisted on considering social aspects.

Consequences of been considered a grumpy person by the kids and getting on the wrong side of your neighbours.

I don't know why you are soooo angry at a suggestion to be social. If you think this is a reasoned response to what I have posted then you will have a social problem dealing with others.

I grew up in Dublin suburbs and there was never a problem with this. There has been no suggestion of any rioting going on in the garden so further exaggeration on your side. I don't know where you grew up but hide and seek is a common game and I don't recall any neighbour going crazy over trespassing.

OldNotWIse

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Yes in the massive amount of posts I have put up here I have insisted on considering social aspects.

Consequences of been considered a grumpy person by the kids and getting on the wrong side of your neighbours.

I don't know why you are soooo angry at a suggestion to be social. If you think this is a reasoned response to what I have posted then you will have a social problem dealing with others.

I grew up in Dublin suburbs and there was never a problem with this. There has been no suggestion of any rioting going on in the garden so further exaggeration on your side. I don't know where you grew up but hide and seek is a common game and I don't recall any neighbour going crazy over trespassing.

I'm not angry at the suggestion of being sociable, I believe my problem lies in using it as some kind of counter argument against someone who does not want kids running past their window constantly. Thanks for the er...diagnosis though :P

Like I said, your experience growing up has little bearing on whether or not kids are allowed to trespass now. I'd go so far (and please dont be insulted) as saying your experiences are largely irrelevant to the OP. I would be annoyed too at this kind of behaviour, and your misty-eyed trip down memory lane would do little to make me feel better.

I'm aware of the game hide and seek (but again...er...thanks), we managed to do that too without running up and down across people's windows.

Also, this may disappoint you but I live in an apartment complex where most people work during the day, or study (or both) and nobody really knows anybody else. So, accordingly I dont care what the neighbours think of me, and if their offspring think I'm grumpy - sorry but that will not come between me and my sleep. I'd be the luckiest woman in the world if what the neighbours kids think of me was all I had to worry about

Ray Palmer

OldNotWIse wrote: »

I'm not angry at the suggestion of being sociable, I believe my problem lies in using it as some kind of counter argument against someone who does not want kids running past their window constantly. Thanks for the er...diagnosis though :P

The problem lies with you taking a comment as a counter argument. It is a different opinion no arguing involved. You are aggressively responding to that and exaggerating. I never argued the legality of it yet you chose that as something I questioned. Not once did I say kids are allowed do this but again you chose to say that I had.

H3llR4iser

OP, I perfectly understand your predicament - you feel like you're living in a town square with no privacy whatsoever, in a place you are paying hard-earned money for.

Talking to the children will be akin to talking to a concrete wall, while doing so with the parents can turn out detrimental: you'll be faced with the typical "but they're just children" muck. These people clearly have no respect whatsoever for other people's peace, privacy and property (as the moving of the bins clearly demonstrates).

What I would do is to block the access(es) with large potted plants. If the kids stop running around, all good. If they don't, they'll either have to move the plants around or go above/through them. At that point, you'll have a reason to go to the parents that will look valid in their own eyes: you're afraid their "little darlings" could get hurt meddling with and around the heavy pots.

If they reply "you shouldn't have put plants there", then I hope you are renting the place. Time to move out - you're surrounded by idiots.

ShaShaBear

Op my two neighbours, next door and next to that, have two very unmannerly and unruly children who have caused problems very similar to yours. They leave toys, scooters, bikes etc IN our garden, they see no issue with climbing on the fence, which one of them has broken, we often get footballs smashing off the sitting room window, and on one occasion one of them almost got a bad bite trying to feed my dog biscuits through the letterbox.

We are completely new to the estate and area, and have already had to speak to both parents. Our next door neighbour apparently doesn't speak any English, but found our concerns funny all the same, and the other mother admittedly apologised and claimed to have no control over her 5 year old. My neighbour (on the other side) just had her sitting room window smashed when the same two children decided to play with the stones in her garden.

You need to firmly tell them to stop, and actually go outside and remove them from your garden if you catch them in the act. Never mind neighbours bad impression or spoiling play time - these kids have their own gardens to play in and they are probably far better equipped for child entertainment than yours.

Lambofdave

fl4pj4ck wrote: »

ahh the 21st Century.... where's the community spirit in forbidding kids to play?

Where will the community spirit be if a child hurts themselves in the op garden, it wont be on the courthouse steps in this the 21 Century litigious society .

ABajaninCork

Lambofdave wrote: »

Where will the community spirit be if a child hurts themselves in the op garden, it wont be on the courthouse steps in this the 21 Century litigious society .

That's the thing. People these days know their rights, but not their responsibilities...

The Diddakoi

When we lived in an estate we set up a swing set for our kids in the back garden.
The following morning I had to rescue a neighbours 3 year old child from the top of our 6ft tall garden gate.
When I explained to him and his little posse he was NOT to come into our garden and try and climb the gate into the back he said
"but how are we supposed to get in to the swings then !!"

Be polite, but be firm. They have no business coming onto your property without your permission.

OldNotWIse

Ray Palmer wrote: »

The problem lies with you taking a comment as a counter argument. It is a different opinion no arguing involved. You are aggressively responding to that and exaggerating. I never argued the legality of it yet you chose that as something I questioned. Not once did I say kids are allowed do this but again you chose to say that I had.

No but you are saying we should let them do it anyway...because you did.

Ray Palmer

OldNotWIse wrote: »

No but you are saying we should let them do it anyway...because you did.

Yes that was my point. What point have you made to add to that? All you did was repeat things I never said anything about.

You know you could have said you were sorry for misquoting/misrepresenting me:P

OldNotWIse

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Yes that was my point. What point have you made to add to that? All you did was repeat things I never said anything about.

You know you could have said you were sorry for misquoting/misrepresenting me:P

I wasn't adding to it, I was making the point that just because you think someone should be allowed break the law doesn't make it ok. You seem to be making the point that just because something is against the law doesn't mean its not ok to do it. So...not going in circles with you anymore, and nothing to apologise for.

convert

I am really genuinely taken aback by the suggestion that it's ok for kids to go into someone else's property without permission and treat it as their own playground. As a kid I learned respect for neighbours and would always apologise for running in to collect a stray football. I never dreamed of just using their garden as a free for all pitch/playground.

If we're to apply the same rules to all, then there shouldn't be a problem for my adult neighbours to come into my garden, treating it as their own, and do whatever they want in it. Sure why not even allow them park their cars/bikes there or store garden furniture? It's only the equivalent to kids leaving their scooters/bikes lying around! And, of course, then you have the inevitable lawsuits should a kid get hurt on your property.

OP, you need to have a chat with the kids, reminding them that it's not their property and that they shouldn't treat it as a playground and that you don't want them there. If that fails, talk to their parents. And put up something blocking the gap.

OldNotWIse

convert wrote: »

I am really genuinely taken aback by the suggestion that it's ok for kids to go into someone else's property without permission and treat it as their own playground. As a kid I learned respect for neighbours and would always apologise for running in to collect a stray football. I never dreamed of just using their garden as a free for all pitch/playground.

If we're to apply the same rules to all, then there shouldn't be a problem for my adult neighbours to come into my garden, treating it as their own, and do whatever they want in it. Sure why not even allow them park their cars/bikes there or store garden furniture? It's only the equivalent to kids leaving their scooters/bikes lying around! And, of course, then you have the inevitable lawsuits should a kid get hurt on your property.

OP, you need to have a chat with the kids, reminding them that it's not their property and that they shouldn't treat it as a playground and that you don't want them there. If that fails, talk to their parents. And put up something blocking the gap.

Same, and if we did have to go into a garden after a ball it was like running the gauntlet - the thrill of it! Then again, we were more afraid of our own parents then. You'd be terrified of an adult reporting you to your parents. Now, parents automatically jump on the defensive if anyone points out that their kids might be annoying others - how dare you say that about my child etc. So, they know they have their own parents on side...as a result, there is no respect for other people's boundaries and privacy. Not all of them of course.

Ray Palmer

OldNotWIse wrote: »

I wasn't adding to it, I was making the point that just because you think someone should be allowed break the law doesn't make it ok. You seem to be making the point that just because something is against the law doesn't mean its not ok to do it. So...not going in circles with you anymore, and nothing to apologise for.

I at no point have said it was OK to break the law. I never even said the kids should be allowed break the law. They also aren't breaking the law until they are asked to leave.

You are going around in circles because you keep saying things I haven't said and then pointing out how the law applies.

Your failure to understand is completely your own fault and you just seem to love to exaggerate. Yes you do owe me an apology but I doubt you can understand how repeatedly making false claims against somebody is just wrong regardless of legality.

OldNotWIse

Ray Palmer wrote: »

I at no point have said it was OK to break the law. I never even said the kids should be allowed break the law. They also aren't breaking the law until they are asked to leave.

You are going around in circles because you keep saying things I haven't said and then pointing out how the law applies.

Your failure to understand is completely your own fault and you just seem to love to exaggerate. Yes you do owe me an apology but I doubt you can understand how repeatedly making false claims against somebody is just wrong regardless of legality.

Ah but sure tis only a minor annoyance right?

seamus

Strictly speaking the children are never breaking the law at all. This kind of trespass is dealt with under tort law, afaik. Even if they fail to leave after you have asked them, it's a civil matter, not a criminal one, so it's not "illegal" for them to be on your property.

It's only criminal trespass if your presence on the property has malicious intent.

In terms of what to do, yeah blocking up the gap seems logical. Doesn't mean the kids will get the point though.

I grew up next to the end house in the street. The wall between our front gardens was about 2 feet high, so easily climbed over by any child over 4 years old. The street was also in a kind of a T, so the end house's side wall, was the back wall of a house on a perpendicular street. So this garden was very popular with the kids, either for scampering between my garden and the end house while playing hide and seek or whatever. Or for climbing over the wall into the back garden of the adjoining property (which also had kids in it). In it lived a very nice, but very quiet bachelor. He put a railing on top of the wall between our gardens. We still climbed over it. He put fencing on the other wall which effectively increased the height of it by about 18 inches, to try and stop us climbing into the back garden of the adjoining property. We still did.
Because kids don't take hints. If he had ever just walked out his front door and told us to stay out of his garden, we would have.

Mossess

Had a similar issue with kids but they were jumping over the fence. My worry was that they would hurt themselves and I’d be landed with an A&E bill or worse. It was all sorted by a friend of mine. One day when he was over visiting the kids started on the fence and he went out and started roaring at them. Completely lost it. The kids got the message and ran. They came back another day and I just said to them “come on now lads, off the fence” and that was it. Never again. Well, rarely. They are all good kids and they didn't see any problems in just playing.

But my friend, as I said he lost it. He came back inside in stitches laughing. He was putting on an act.

He’s not from the area so he didn't give a hoot about what the kids thought of him. But it worked. So, I would recommend getting a friend over to lose the rag with them. If any parent comes over to complain (and they might) you can say “ oh that was Johnny, he works in health and safety, he was very concerned at what your little Johnny was doing, do you know what he was doing on my fence/wall/pathway?”

ABajaninCork

Mossess wrote: »

Had a similar issue with kids but they were jumping over the fence. My worry was that they would hurt themselves and I’d be landed with an A&E bill or worse. It was all sorted by a friend of mine. One day when he was over visiting the kids started on the fence and he went out and started roaring at them. Completely lost it. The kids got the message and ran. They came back another day and I just said to them “come on now lads, off the fence” and that was it. Never again. Well, rarely. They are all good kids and they didn't see any problems in just playing.

But my friend, as I said he lost it. He came back inside in stitches laughing. He was putting on an act.

He’s not from the area so he didn't give a hoot about what the kids thought of him. But it worked. So, I would recommend getting a friend over to lose the rag with them. If any parent comes over to complain (and they might) you can say “ oh that was Johnny, he works in health and safety, he was very concerned at what your little Johnny was doing, do you know what he was doing on my fence/wall/pathway?”

That's ridiculous. The OP is an adult. So (I assume) are the little darling's parents. Why can't he have an adult conversation with the parents? Tell them it is not acceptable to have their kids running riot on his property as they like.

Either that or HE can roar at the kids himself!

Ray Palmer

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Ah but sure tis only a minor annoyance right?

Well as long as you are acting like an intelligent adult that's all that count

OldNotWIse

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Well as long as you are acting like an intelligent adult that's all that count

Ah dont be gettin' annoyed

OldNotWIse

ABajaninCork wrote: »

That's ridiculous. The OP is an adult. So (I assume) are the little darling's parents. Why can't he have an adult conversation with the parents? Tell them it is not acceptable to have their kids running riot on his property as they like.

Either that or HE can roar at the kids himself!

He might be taking his life in his hands Though far more effective than talking to folk with the attention span of a goldfish

?Cee?view

Ray Palmer wrote: »

They also aren't breaking the law until they are asked to leave.

Not true.

Mossess

ABajaninCork wrote: »

That's ridiculous. The OP is an adult. So (I assume) are the little darling's parents. Why can't he have an adult conversation with the parents? Tell them it is not acceptable to have their kids running riot on his property as they like.

Either that or HE can roar at the kids himself!

The retired neighbours across the road did that. It drove them nuts coming out every time they saw a kid out playing. Everyone thought they were slightly odd. They may have been anyway.
That was why when a friend, who is not from the area, let the kids know in a very clear understandable way what they were doing was wrong (as far as I was concerned) it was sorted. The parents/other neighbours did not associate the complaining directly with me.

Ray Palmer

?Cee?view wrote: »

Not true.

Really want to tell us at what point somebody in your front garden is trespassing? I wonder how many postmen are breaking the law or even the junk mailers.