Kids playing in the front garden?

foggy_lad

Growing up in a rural village housing estate we would never enter another garden unless it was with a child or adult who lived there. We would usually wait at the gate if someone went in for a drink or coat etc.

We did this because we were thought to have respect for all our elders and especially our neighbours. They were also always called Mr or mrs Xxxx never called by any first name.

Children are no longer thought to have respect for any person or their property. They are told they are equals. Years ago damaging a car would get you an extra good hiding because you were damaging a persons ability to work. Now the children are thought that if they say it was an accident there will be no repercussions.

Ray Palmer

djimi wrote: »

It doesnt have to be intentional, and with kids it probably wouldnt be, but you cant seriously be denying that any/all of the listed damage could be caused by kids playing?

Kids accidentally writing on the driveway and pulling up flowers I will deny as a risk. So yes I do very seriously deny statements made along with claims the kids "running riot". All exaggerations.

Even "possible" problems are not likely the way people are saying here.

The suggestion that laws on trespassing show the children are some how menaces and wrong is ridiculous. The law gives nothing on a moral guide. They still are children

djimi

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Kids accidentally writing on the driveway and pulling up flowers I will deny as a risk. So yes I do very seriously deny statements made along with claims the kids "running riot". All exaggerations.

Even "possible" problems are not likely the way people are saying here.

The suggestion that laws on trespassing show the children are some how menaces and wrong is ridiculous. The law gives nothing on a moral guide. They still are children

Ive seen all of this happen first hand. Kids drawing hotscotch on driveways in chalk, running bikes etc into the side of cars, digging in flowerbeds, even damaging windows with stones. Kids dont know any better; they dont understand the boundaries between playing and damage sometimes. Im not even blaming them for it; its what they are - kids.

Of course, none of that might ever happen, but why take a risk? I have a dent in the side of my car that wouldnt be there if kids werent playing around it. Im really not sure why you are arguing this; if someone doesnt want to have the neighbouring kids on their property then that is their choice, and nobody has a right to criticize them for that. You can can choose to turn a blind eye to it all you want and thats your choice, but you have to understand where the other side of the argument is coming from.

Im not even coming at this from a legal or trespassing point of view or whatever (to be honest in a discussion about toddlers/children that is a ridiculously over the top way of looking at it). Its simply a case of the persons right to decide who they want, or dont want, playing on their property.

Ray Palmer

djimi wrote: »

Im not even coming at this from a legal or trespassing point of view or whatever (to be honest in a discussion about toddlers/children that is a ridiculously over the top way of looking at it). Its simply a case of the persons right to decide who they want, or dont want, playing on their property.

I agree. It is very easily solved with common sense. The OP has every right to decide. I wouldn't think very highly of anybody making the complaint though.

I have never seen any of the stuff you described of kids in a neighbours garden ripping up flower beds or drawing on chalk. I think that is totally different to what has been described by the OP. That would certainly be kids running riot but I have never seen it or even heard of it until this thread. I'll stick with my own personal experience given the obvious exaggeration by so many here.

djimi

Ray Palmer wrote: »

I have never seen any of the stuff you described of kids in a neighbours garden ripping up flower beds or drawing on chalk. I think that is totally different to what has been described by the OP. That would certainly be kids running riot but I have never seen it or even heard of it until this thread. I'll stick with my own personal experience given the obvious exaggeration by so many here.

Its not exaggeration when its things that have been seen first hand.

As I said, there is a good chance that none of those things would like likely, but then it depends on how comfortable kids get to playing in your garden. If its just kids running though as a shortcut or whatever as the OP has described then its probably not an issue at all (there is however still the issue of what happens should a child fall and hurt themselves while on your property). If its kids trying to get in to use the swing set (as another poster mentioned), or doing things like climbing over walls to get balls etc then there is a much greater potential for problems and for damage.

um7y1h83ge06nx

Ray Palmer wrote: »

The OP has every right to decide. I wouldn't think very highly of anybody making the complaint though.

Ah well.

I think this whole thing is being blown out of proportion, I just want to have some boundaries in order to prevent bigger problems.

What if my car for instance gets damaged? I certainly wouldn't want to foot the bill but if I call to the parents and they don't want to, what do I do? Nothing really but absorb the cost. Cue me then being really p*ssed off with the kids and parents in question.

Now what if I'm cutting the front lawn with my electric lawnmower and one of them trips over the lead and bursts themselves open. What might be a normally reasonable parent might get irrational when they see blood running down Mary's or Johnny's face. What if they criticise me in the heat of the moment for leaving a lead running across the lawn? I would tell them I'm sorry the kid fell but it's not my fault and they were on my property after all.

All hypothetical of course but they are things where neighbourly relations could sour so may be playing cautious now might help avoid other situations in the future.

Ray Palmer

Regina Round Fatigues wrote: »

Ah well.

I think this whole thing is being blown out of proportion, I just want to have some boundaries in order to prevent bigger problems.

What if my car for instance gets damaged? I certainly wouldn't want to foot the bill but if I call to the parents and they don't want to, what do I do? Nothing really but absorb the cost. Cue me then being really p*ssed off with the kids and parents in question.

Now what if I'm cutting the front lawn with my electric lawnmower and one of them trips over the lead and bursts themselves open. What might be a normally reasonable parent might get irrational when they see blood running down Mary's or Johnny's face. What if they criticise me in the heat of the moment for leaving a lead running across the lawn? I would tell them I'm sorry the kid fell but it's not my fault and they were on my property after all.

All hypothetical of course but they are things where neighbourly relations could sour so may be playing cautious now might help avoid other situations in the future.

Fine then tell them not to play there if you feel that way. What else do you need to know?

Have you said anything yet?

I think you are completely overblowing all possible risks and won't come across as nice. What do you care about my opinion if you think all these things will happen?

Of course the parents might just hate you for this and hit you but I might be overblowing the possibility

Rosier

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Kids accidentally writing on the driveway and pulling up flowers I will deny as a risk. So yes I do very seriously deny statements made along with claims the kids "running riot". All exaggerations.

Even "possible" problems are not likely the way people are saying here.

The suggestion that laws on trespassing show the children are some how menaces and wrong is ridiculous. The law gives nothing on a moral guide. They still are children

Who need to be taught to respect the property and privacy of others. Not to run riot .

Some kids who have not been taught simple respect do run riot. Some grow up not respecting others. Kids need discipline.

Any child who is running around on someone else's property without permission has not been taught any respect.

You seem more worried re not being "liked" by people than re anything else.

Laissez faire taken to the nth degree... that destroys true society.

Ray Palmer

Rosier wrote: »

Who need to be taught to respect the property and privacy of others. Not to run riot .

Some kids who have not been taught simple respect do run riot. Some grow up not respecting others. Kids need discipline.

Any child who is running around on someone else's property without permission has not been taught any respect.

You seem more worried re not being "liked" by people than re anything else.

Laissez faire taken to the nth degree... that destroys true society.

Did you read the OP. The kids are not running riot that is a made up remark after the stated facts.

This post is truly an overblown at the suggestion this destroys society. Amazingly I understand respect and we did this. If somebody complained we wouldn't go into their garden.

The solution is so obvious and answered but I am not seeing any respect coming from people here for others that don't see it as a big deal to start with.

Penny Dreadful

Regina Round Fatigues wrote: »

Hi,

Looking for some advice to solve an issue as cleanly as possible.

Recently we have had a problem with some of the kids in the estate running through and playing in our front garden. We've being here 7 years and never had the problem before.

To give some context we live in a semi-D. There are hedges between the neighbours at either side and a wall running along the front, so it's pretty enclosed. Now the hedges do not run right up against the houses, there is a little space presumably for the postman to walk through I think.

Anyway the kids have started to run from garden to garden using the space between the hedges and houses. They then started using their 2 wheeled push scooters through here and playing cops and robbers through there, sometimes coming in and out through the driveway too.

It's very annoying when we are sitting watching TV and have kids running across literally a foot outside the window and rumbling across on their scooters. I'm also anxious that they will run their scooters into my car which is parked in the driveway.

Friday evening I went out the front to hoover the car and cut the lawns so they would get the hint to get out. Eventually after a few more minutes of running through they got the hint. On Saturday I placed my wheelie bins in the corner between me and my non-attached neighbour. We went off for an hour or two and found the bins moved. Yesterday I placed them back again. This time my GF saw one of the kids moving the bins so they could come through. Now the bins were placed there so that parents and kids alike might get the hint that we don't want them running all over the garden. The GF came out of the house and made it obvious that she was putting the bins back. They seemed to get the hint after that.

So, we're trying to solve the problem as sensitively as possible without giving out to the kids or speaking to the parents. Normally they are nice kids so am surprised that they are cheeky enough to move the bins, which were fully in my property.

Should I get some large planting pots or troughs and grow a little hedge in them, placing them next to my house at either side? Or talk to the kids or the parents?

Any advice would be appreciated.

I had a similar problem and even though I asked the kids to stop playing there, private property, etc they kept doing it.
I bought some very large pots that were too heavy to move when filled with soil and too wide for them to jump over and put them at the walkway between the two houses. It put an end to it.
As we're the first house on the row we had teenages hanging aroud at the other side and they'd often step over the small fence and walk through out front garden to their own house. I asked them to stop and they didn't. They also littered quite a bit too.
One day I watched to see where one of them lived and picked up the litter and rang door bell of their house and when the girl answered the door gave her the litter back and said "I think you forgot something when you were at my house".
They haven't been back since.

Rosier

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Did you read the OP. The kids are not running riot that is a made up remark after the stated facts.

This post is truly an overblown at the suggestion this destroys society. Amazingly I understand respect and we did this. If somebody complained we wouldn't go into their garden.

The solution is so obvious and answered but I am not seeing any respect coming from people here for others that don't see it as a big deal to start with.

This is the crux. No respect of others' property without complaint is not respect of others' property.

Of course it destroys society when any "respect" has to be enforced.

Ray Palmer

Rosier wrote: »

This is the crux. No respect of others' property without complaint is not respect of others' property.

Of course it destroys society when any "respect" has to be enforced.

I just find that ridiculous. Awareness of upset is not a complaint or lack of respect. If they aren't damaging anything intentionally they are showing respect for the property. Moaning about territorial borders where people live so close to each other is quite petty when dealing with kids.

What is your plan sit there seething waiting for the parents to know their kids are upsetting somebody or the kids to suddenly be aware it bothers the neighbour. A very immature attitude to have if you ask me.

It is hysterical behaviour to suggest this is the down fall of society. You don't "should" the world around you, you interact with it.

OldNotWIse

OP just tell them to get out of your fuucking garden and stop wrecking your head. its your garden, they're not meant to be there. Simple. You have a right to tell them to fucck off, and I would. All this bull**** "in my day" and keeping in with neighbours yadda yadda yadda. wtf?

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

My neighbours brought their kids onto my fathers farm yard and let them out of the car and let them run riot around, and one of them ended up getting bitten by our dog.

The child's mother called the guards on the dog to ensure it was destroyed and there is currently a high court action pending for "physcological trauma" to the child. Even though the mother was asked to put the kids back in the car.

wolfpawnat

I have this issue at the moment too, although slightly more complicated, I live on the ground floor in an apartment complex, but there is a 3 foot wall 2/3 meters from the apartments to give some privacy. There is some hedging and grass, but drains are there and it is not a rule of the complex, but more of a basic understanding not to go over the wall, there is plenty of green area for kids to play around. I have the same few kids not only jumping the wall, but climbing out the side of my balcony, screaming outside of my apartment and staring in windows. I left it go for a while, but it finally became too much. I kindly asked the kids to go back to their mom. They didn't. I said it more firmly, they went away, but were back a few minutes later. I finally lost the plot when they woke my newborn who I had just settled to sleep after a few hours of crying. I went onto the balcony and let rip at the mother who had ignored their behaviour. There is only so much you can take really. Now I should not have flown off the handle, but little sleep, new baby and ignorant brats are not a good combo!

OP tell them your garden is not a play area. Firmly, but without resorting to yelling like me. Annoy them into staying away by shooing them all afternoon if you have to. My family and I have put up with some serious crap from a few sets of kids, if they think you are a soft spot, they will drive you insane!

My 4yo has been taught never to go at other peoples property, cars, gardens, etc, it's basic respect!

_Kaiser_

foggy_lad wrote: »

Growing up in a rural village housing estate we would never enter another garden unless it was with a child or adult who lived there. We would usually wait at the gate if someone went in for a drink or coat etc.

We did this because we were thought to have respect for all our elders and especially our neighbours. They were also always called Mr or mrs Xxxx never called by any first name.

Children are no longer thought to have respect for any person or their property. They are told they are equals. Years ago damaging a car would get you an extra good hiding because you were damaging a persons ability to work. Now the children are thought that if they say it was an accident there will be no repercussions.

Post of the thread right here!

foggy_lad has hit the nail on the head. This new-age, PC, "think of the children" nonsense that has led to a complete breakdown in effective parenting IMO. Even those who DO try to instill a level of respect for others in their kids are looked as almost as "abusing" their kids (Ray's attitude is a perfect example of this type) - all for trying to teach them that they CAN'T just do whatever the hell the like!

Kids are not just "small adults", nor can you reason with a 6-year old like you would an adult which is what the above nonsense parenting style would have you believe. Kids need boundaries, consequences and to have respect for others, their property AND themselves.

The really sad thing is that in today's "enlightened" society this attitude is considered "old-fashioned" or even "harmful". These same people then no doubt wonder why crime and anti-social behavior among teenagers has risen steadily in the past 20 years or so, or why some schools are effectively out of control.

digzy

Lambofdave wrote: »

Where will the community spirit be if a child hurts themselves in the op garden, it wont be on the courthouse steps in this the 21 Century litigious society .

I'm wondering what's worse, litigious people or people spouting on in fear of them! A 'case" against you will only be successful if liability is proved.
In the case cited on pg 2 of the thread where a child trespasses and falls or cycles into your car and hurts themselves the child's family haven't a leg to stand on.
On the other hand, if you leave garden tools-for the sake of argument- strewn about the lawn that may be a different matter.

Penny Dreadful

LexieOnRale wrote: »

My neighbours brought their kids onto my fathers farm yard and let them out of the car and let them run riot around, and one of them ended up getting bitten by our dog.

The child's mother called the guards on the dog to ensure it was destroyed and there is currently a high court action pending for "physcological trauma" to the child. Even though the mother was asked to put the kids back in the car.

:eek:.

They just brought their kids to your parent's farm and let them out? No invitation to come and play or the like?
Some people:rolleyes:

Penny Dreadful

digzy wrote: »

I'm wondering what's worse, litigious people or people spouting on in fear of them! A 'case" against you will only be successful if liability is proved.
In the case cited on pg 2 of the thread where a child trespasses and falls or cycles into your car and hurts themselves the child's family haven't a leg to stand on.
On the other hand, if you leave garden tools-for the sake of argument- strewn about the lawn that may be a different matter.[/QUOTE]

If you've left garden tools strewn about your own lawn and someone comes onto your lawn without your permission and hurts themselves how is it your fault?
I've heard of similar things with people whose houses have been broken into and the burglers injured themselves and claimed.
Although maybe that was an urban legend.

um7y1h83ge06nx

From my reading I think Digsy may be right.

Occupier Liability says that as a owner you have a duty of care to trepassers.

http://www.tormeys.ie/news-a-events/library/105-occupier-liability-act-1995.html

A notable point is that the law applies equally to children and adults alike. Naturally, the age of the injured person is likely, along with all other relevant factors, to come under consideration as a relevant factor. Thus, the minority holding in McNamara -V- ESB under the old law, that an 11 year old boy would be unlikely to read a warning notice, and the Court's holding that a 9 year old girl would be unaware of the danger of lighted candles (Rooney -V- Connelly), would still likely pertain in similar circumstances.

My interpretation is that if you know that children are regularly on the property, even if they are technically trespassers, then you have to take reasonable steps to ensure their safety. So IMO leaving tools out when they are not being used MAY not be showing a duty of care towards the children. Now that is in my opinion bu it does really put the onus on the owner which is a little bonkers.

um7y1h83ge06nx

Interesting paper here on the same topic:

http://www.claruspress.ie/TORT1.pdf

EDIT: Actually if they are trespassers you don't have a "duty of care" as I mistakenly said in the last post, rather you can't "act with reckless disregard". There is a list on the first page of the PDF about it.

Still makes it difficult for an owner.

Mossess

Here you go, http://www.diy.com/nav/garden/fencing-paving-decking/fencing/fence_panels/-specificproducttype-palisade_fencing/Grange-Softwood-Roundtop-Palisade-Fence-Panel-Natural-0-9-x-1-8m-12978568?skuId=13489272
This is a lot cheaper then hiring lawyers, solicitors and barristers. You will probably need to invest in a bracket for the wall too. The entire problem could be solved for about 35 euros.

um7y1h83ge06nx

Oh yeah, that's definitely the easiest route to go down.

As an update I haven't had any issue in about a week since I jammed the bin against the narrower side and put 3/4 of a 4 inch block against them to keep them in place.

In the medium to long term I'll get a length of fence like that.

My posts about Occupier Liability is to do with being sued than suing, partcularly referring to the post about garden equipment. If you had some crazy, unreasonable person they could easily make your life hell by taking advantage of that act.

Mossess

Homebase have similar fences too for about 15 euros. taller too.

OldNotWIse

Penny Dreadful wrote: »

digzy wrote: »

I'm wondering what's worse, litigious people or people spouting on in fear of them! A 'case" against you will only be successful if liability is proved.
In the case cited on pg 2 of the thread where a child trespasses and falls or cycles into your car and hurts themselves the child's family haven't a leg to stand on.
On the other hand, if you leave garden tools-for the sake of argument- strewn about the lawn that may be a different matter.[/QUOTE]

If you've left garden tools strewn about your own lawn and someone comes onto your lawn without your permission and hurts themselves how is it your fault?
I've heard of similar things with people whose houses have been broken into and the burglers injured themselves and claimed.
Although maybe that was an urban legend.

Probably before the law changed on occupier's liability. Not entirely sure when but before, an occupier of land owed a duty of care to those on his land, even if they were trespassers. This proved to be quite unfair on farmers etc who had people (hillwalkers etc) on their land without permission and then suing when they injured themselves. Now, the only duty you owe them is to not intentionally harm them or their property and not behave recklessly, which is a much higher threshold.
Still, you want to avoid the stress of even having any parents trying to go down this road, so the fences sound like the best idea.

Finelli

good fences make good neighbours

Electric Sheep

Ray Palmer wrote: »

I just find that ridiculous. Awareness of upset is not a complaint or lack of respect. If they aren't damaging anything intentionally they are showing respect for the property. Moaning about territorial borders where people live so close to each other is quite petty when dealing with kids.

What is your plan sit there seething waiting for the parents to know their kids are upsetting somebody or the kids to suddenly be aware it bothers the neighbour. A very immature attitude to have if you ask me.

It is hysterical behaviour to suggest this is the down fall of society. You don't "should" the world around you, you interact with it.

I can guess who's kids are the plague of the neighborhood.:P

digzy

Penny Dreadful wrote: »

digzy wrote: »

I'm wondering what's worse, litigious people or people spouting on in fear of them! A 'case" against you will only be successful if liability is proved.
In the case cited on pg 2 of the thread where a child trespasses and falls or cycles into your car and hurts themselves the child's family haven't a leg to stand on.
On the other hand, if you leave garden tools-for the sake of argument- strewn about the lawn that may be a different matter.[/QUOTE]

If you've left garden tools strewn about your own lawn and someone comes onto your lawn without your permission and hurts themselves how is it your fault?
I've heard of similar things with people whose houses have been broken into and the burglers injured themselves and claimed.
Although maybe that was an urban legend.

I'm not saying it's right or fair that an owner may be liable. I was just trying to make the point that in order for anyone-invited or a trespasser- to successfully sue you for injuries incurred on your property negligence must be prooved. A few posters appear to think that if a kid crashes their bike or falls on your property, the folks can 'sue' successfully. It's just not the case.

Ray Palmer

Electric Sheep wrote: »

I can guess who's kids are the plague of the neighborhood.:P

Not really I don't have any but if you read the thread you would know that:cool:

um7y1h83ge06nx

An update.

Things were quiet until Wednesday evening when they were running through again. I was getting ready to go for a run when I heard the bins that I put at one side being moved. I went outside to head off on my run and one of the girls was trying to lift the 4 inch block that I had put up against the bins from my side. She turned around and caught me staring at her. I politely said "Don't play in the garden please". She claims she was looking for her bike, inventive excuse I suppose.

Yesterday evening though they really took the p*ss, there was 4, maybe 5 running through at any one time. This time my girlfriend went out to them asking them to play in their own gardens instead, but it didn't work, at least not initially. After her coming out to them 3 or 4 times they left. I was surprised that they didn't seem to take much notice.

So after that we went to the local hardware shop to get a trellis fence, something like this but it was only about 7 quid link. I wanted to get a bigger, wider one but the girlfriend shot me down. Came back and found it was a bit narrow (in fairness I should have measured it up before-hand). Still I was able to tie one end with ropes onto the drainpipe and the other end around the tree there. It's not ideal, but I used 3 or four ropes at different levels so the only way through that side now is to break through it, climb over it, or get through the tangle of ropes.

We'll see what effect this has. The next step if this doesn't work is to go to the parents, annoying that speaking to the kids doesn't seemed to have really worked.