Purchasing New Car maybe Electric

Big Nasty

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Funny that from a guy advertising part worn tyres for €25

You see me jumping all over every tyre thread?

Scortho

Scortho wrote: »

The range is what 60-80 miles and it takes 3-4 hours to fully charge that?

How come earlier on you said you can recharge 20 miles in 5 mins?
Or is this in the future?

You can fast charge in absolute 0%-80% in 30 mins, a 5 to ok maybe 10 min fast charge would most likely get you 20 miles, it takes 30 mins for an 0-80% charge, so 5 mins would be a good average and fast charging warms up the battery on a cold winters day too meaning more range on a warmer battery.

The Spark ev has knocked 10 mins off that already, but there will be no ccs chargers for a while yet and even when they become available it will take time to build up to a level the CHAdeMo chargers are at.

The current MK I Leaf only has a 3kw charger for home charging so the first Gen will charge 0-100 in 8 hours, unfortunately, that's why I say with the Gen 1.5 order a 6.6kw charger if anyone buys new.

The Spark ev will only have a 3kw charger too but the fast charge advantage shouldn't be ignored. (it's possible Spark will have a faster on-board charger at the time of release)

Zoe will charge as fast as your house supply, that being the only limiting factor, 3 phase house supply and you can charge in 30 mins.

Zoe will also charge in under an hour to 100% form 99% of all the ESB public chargers at 22 kw. Even though there are 0 44kw 3 phase AC chargers for Zoe yet, it does have that advantage of only an hour to charge, plug in shopping if you can and it's fully charged when you come out, these chargers are in most towns, Carlow alone has 3 now, or 3 x 2 outlets.

The tech is evolving fast, I believe faster charging is more important than sheer range, ok a comfortable 150 miles at 120 kph would be nice, but 500 miles is too much to charge in any meaningful time.

BMW promise 200 miles range in 2017. meanwhile Tesla are laughing their heads off, though in fairness the model S is a gigantic car and can naturally fit a big battery. But they have the expertise that the Euro car makers don't have in battery pack building, there is no reason BMW couldn't have made a 300 mile car, it's because they don't currently know how with current battery tech.

lafiamma09

lafiamma09 wrote: »

1. Here in ireland the esb will fit a charge point at your house, this is great if you own the house but if your renting like me or in an apartment then this isnt an option. The uk supply a lead you can plug into a household socket however we cannot use the same lead over here due to esb concerns about house fires. You can buy a compatible lead from nissan but its a €900 extra... Can you get a lead, that we can use here, cheaper? (Much!) otherwise you are confined to having to use public charge points, and these are often blocked by ICE cars which could leave a person fairly stuck.. Where i (currently but soon to change) work there is a charge point 3 min walk away, and once a week i make a 220 km round trip but there are charge points along the way: M4 Applegreen. I dont want to be drip feeding the car the whole time.

Yes currently for renting this poses a problem. The only thing you can do is public charge on the normal 22kw ac chargers, buy the leaf with 6.6kw charger and public charge for free in 3-4 hrs max depending on your charge level. Or fast charge, I presume you live in Dublin so there are a few scattered around. If you're getting work charging then that solves a lot of your charging woes. And you can have the advantage of a fully heated or cooled cabin when you get in !

There is no easy solution to work charging though, this won't change without EU directive, our Government wouldn't have the brains to think of a solution like that. As I said before I would pay a rental fee for the public chargers as I don't expect them to be free nor the upkeep, this way the ESB own the chargers and not the company and you get billed on your electric bill and their is no winging by companies.

However, there needs to be a bit of cop on and only install chargers as needed and only allow people to charge that are registered that absolutely need the (company) chargers to save on installing thousands of unnecessary chargers. The public chargers obviously anyone can charge at. But it would address one issue for apartment owners/renters and home owners that can't charge at home.

The other thing is as batteries become better and charging gets faster in the future it could make a lot of public chargers obsolete.

Leaf II will have an induction charging option also which would allow apartment owners to charge where otherwise pluging in isn't practicle, though you'll still have the problem of (what do I do with the charger when I move) This is why there needs to be a rental option for those who can't own chargers.

But perhaps have a chat with the ESB and see if they can make a deal that they can remove your old charger and install it in your new house, though this won't work if the landlord or management companies won't allow it. Again have a chat with the relevant people.

To answer your question about the portable charger or (e.v.s.e) you can get one in Ireland and I'll see if I can dig up the name of the company, or if someone else can ? it will charge much slower though and you need a proper socket in the location you wan't to charge, a proper extension lead is do-able provided it's fully extended which can cause it's own problems if people are walking around.

lafiamma09 wrote: »

2. The lease query... As i understand it, in the uk the ev's are sold substantially cheaper. The initial cost is offset through the owner renting the batterys with a monthly cost. These batteries as it stand will not be replaced your just paying for maintenance. In ireland you pay the higher up front cost but no monthly rental. What happens the batteries? Will they still be maintained? When / if they fail as i understand it it will cost depending on who you talk to anywhere in the region of €5k-€8k. This is a massive cost to be outlaying every say 10 years or so? ( Pure stab in the dark with that figure as i cannot get a right answer anywhere on the lifetime of the batteries). Or am i totally wrong, do we pay (for example the sv) €24k + rental on top?

You're correct there is no battery rental option for Ireland, it should have been an option as why not allow the person decide ? However if you are a higher mileage driver and if you add up the rental charges per month over 3-5 years you'll find that if you do need to replace the battery you'll have paid for it regardless.

Nissan will only repair modules where Renault have said that their rental program means they will replace the whole pack once it reaches 75%. Though make sure this is in black and white. So if the battery worries you then the Zoe might be the better option, but again you'll have paid for the new battery anyway and if you sell the car, there goes your money. So I can only see the Renault battery rental good if you keep your car for 10 years, or for 2nd hand buyers. But not for new buyers.

So if you buy new on say a PCP plan, you dish up a deposit, say 8-9 grand. Pay x amount for 3 years (usually much lower monthly payments than a personal loan) or whatever then either pay it off and keep the car or use the Guaranteed future value they give you at the start to pay off the car, you then use any remaining value as a deposit for a new Leaf at the end of the lease and you don't worry about the battery.

lafiamma09 wrote: »

Ive emailed nissan twice in the last few weeks and got no reply. Just been researching and reading blogs / forum threads to get as much info as possible. My current petrol costs for the month would pretty much pay for the car. Im willing to sacrifice range and having to plan my journeys a little in order to have a car that effectively pays for itself, but i dont want to jump into a big black hole without knowing the facts and whats in store for me.

Nissan themselves don't really know much about the car, When I test drove it in December they didn't even know the MK 1.5 was coming this summer or that it would have a more efficient heat pump heater and a faster charging option etc.

They are only interested in sales and in fairness not many dealers know the technical ins and outs of any car they sell.

[/QUOTE]

September1

100 km can require compromises on most adverse weather, obviously less so than old LEAFs. Can you charge at destination?

patmac

Deleted User wrote: »

By the way OP what's your location ? there might be fast chargers somewhere near you ?

Ballinasloe to Clara Co Offaly, would have free electricity at work as we generate our own, but how would I charge the car would the ESB install a point at work and at home? I am slowly going off the idea, I read through the other thread and I am thinking about the charge issue, we fly out of Dublin Airport a couple of times a year how would that work travelling 160kms, we would could use the second car (wife's 99 starlet), I suppose . The range is too short me thinks, I would be interested in a Hybrid maybe.

September1

Certainly there is no issue going on Ballinasloe to Dublin Airport, that is well within LEAF capabilities - I did it countless times. I think ESB would only install one point, but if you live near charging point in Ballinasloe or work near one in Clara then you might be good. Having said that, you do not need destination charging if you are ok with short stop in Athlone during colder days. That is basing on my 1gen LEAF which has much much worse heating than yours would have.

Idbatterim

you could probably have the below imported and vrt for 20k...

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201309309025103/sort/default/usedcars/maximum-age/up_to_2_years_old/fuel-type/diesel/model/5_series/make/bmw/onesearchad/used/onesearchad/nearlynew/onesearchad/new/radius/1500/page/1/postcode/bt39jp?logcode=p

patmac

patmac wrote: »

Ballinasloe to Clara Co Offaly, would have free electricity at work as we generate our own, but how would I charge the car would the ESB install a point at work and at home? I am slowly going off the idea, I read through the other thread and I am thinking about the charge issue, we fly out of Dublin Airport a couple of times a year how would that work travelling 160kms, we would could use the second car (wife's 99 starlet), I suppose . The range is too short me thinks, I would be interested in a Hybrid maybe.

If you have a 2nd car then you can use that for the days that leccy driving is not possible.

I think it's possible to fast charge along route, maybe twice. maybe 20 mins each time.

I don't have the data yet as to how much the heat pump saves range over the MK I.

You can wait for the BMW I3, it should have more range and there is the option of range extender though the range extender option will mean VRT will be charged adding greatly to the cost of the car.

The other car then at the and of 2014 or so would be the Mercedes B class electric. It will certainly have more range than the Leaf at a premium, said to be 115 miles real range, no data yet.

The question is do you need to pay the premium for the few trips a year or can fast charging meet 98% of your needs ? Take the starlet ?

A Prius is an option and you could convert to LPG, however the Leaf is a far better car to drive, The Prius is not bad by any means but when you experience instant throttle response and all that torque i don't think you would go back.

Regarding charging, you would have to get a contractor to install the charger at work or just use the portable evse and use an extension lead fully extended and rated for the current of course. That's the cheapest option.

Do you say you have a 100 km round trip ? if you can do that then there would be no problem, I do think 100kms in the MK 1.% would leave you with more range at the end of the day, however, it's always better to keep it topped up so you can have more range at home should you need it.

If I were you I'd rent a Leaf for a weekend to see how you get on. Maybe get a loan of a portable evse from this company.

http://www.jtmpower.ie/

I'm sure they did their own portable evse, I think it was rated at something like 1800 watts, so it would charge a lot slower, maybe 10-12 hrs. So if you get home at 6 it would be charged by 6am, this is only using the portable evse. It's ideal for work charging leaching off a spare socket.

Idbatterim

Idbatterim wrote: »

you could probably have the below imported and vrt for 20k...

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201309309025103/sort/default/usedcars/maximum-age/up_to_2_years_old/fuel-type/diesel/model/5_series/make/bmw/onesearchad/used/onesearchad/nearlynew/onesearchad/new/radius/1500/page/1/postcode/bt39jp?logcode=p

That's the 520 those are known to wreck engines by the timing chain breaking, it's certainly a car I would avoid, it's rampant.

I'd imagine it's hard to find a bmw not clocked these days too.

patmac

Non the wiser now! In winter what speed would I need to be going at to get the 100 km range wouldn't be one for travelling at 80 km/h on the motorway.
According to SEAI's website these are the top 10 fuel efficient cars
http://www.seai.ie/Power_of_One/Getting_Around/HCIYC/Top10

beazee

patmac wrote: »

In winter what speed would I need to be going at to get the 100 km range

It's not only about speed. It's the temperature, wind speed and direction, no of passengers and amount of cargo, whether the road is hilly or not. I'd imagine 95 - 105 kph leaves you on the safe side.

patmac

patmac wrote: »

Non the wiser now! In winter what speed would I need to be going at to get the 100 km range wouldn't be one for travelling at 80 km/h on the motorway.
According to SEAI's website these are the top 10 fuel efficient cars
http://www.seai.ie/Power_of_One/Getting_Around/HCIYC/Top10

Those consumption figures are the manufacturer figures based on the farcical NEDC test. An in reality no one gets anywhere near those figures.

I get 60-64 mpg in the MK II Prius and that's genuine per tank with me driving. It does take a bit to learn.

But I think from going by owner reviews, the speeds will be 100kph to get that 60 miles. As I said you're best off to rent it for a weekend and see how you get on and use the battery bars and not the range estimator or guess-O-meter as it's called in the Leaf world.

September1 might give you a bitter figure based on our climate ?

Failing that why not get a cheap Prius for 5k with 100k miles on the clock and convert to gas and use the savings to put off a large deposit for an ev in a few years ?

beazee

beazee wrote: »

It's not only about speed. It's the temperature, wind speed and direction, no of passengers and amount of cargo, whether the road is hilly or not. I'd imagine 95 - 105 kph leaves you on the safe side.

Speed will have a large impact, for instance travel at 80 kph on back roads and get maybe 70-100 miles winter summer V 100kph 60-80 miles etc.

Charge in between and this is not as much of an issue.

Again, the 2013 MK 1.5 has a much more efficient heater and so the range won't be as low as the MK I, but I can't give you any accurate data yet as that will only start to come in when the weather gets colder.

Bluefoam

Get yourself an Alfa Mito Quadrifiglio Verde, it has real world fuel consumption of 36+mpg & has the added bonus that you will soil yourself every time you look at it...

Wossack

cute car

Nice cars alright and great engine options, huge price though considering it will depreciate like a stone.

Bluefoam

Deleted User wrote: »

Nice cars alright and great engine options, huge price though considering it will depreciate like a stone.

Actually, the residuals are quite high... Better than a Golf: Source

Bluefoam

Bluefoam wrote: »

Actually, the residuals are quite high... Better than a Golf: Source

What about Irish sources ?

I'd rather have a Golf though, I just prefer VAG interiors. Alfa's tend to date a lot quicker, the Golf for instance doesn't change much, probably one of it's advantages.

Bluefoam

Deleted User wrote: »

What about Irish sources ?

I'd rather have a Golf though, I just prefer VAG interiors. Alfa's tend to date a lot quicker, the Golf for instance doesn't change much, probably one of it's advantages.

Off topic...

Bluefoam

Bluefoam wrote: »

Off topic...

It wasn't when you brought it up ! :P

Bluefoam

Deleted User wrote: »

What about Irish sources ?

I'd rather have a Golf though, I just prefer VAG interiors. Alfa's tend to date a lot quicker, the Golf for instance doesn't change much, probably one of it's advantages.

I like the inside of vages too...

However, the Mito is in a different segment to the golf. You could possibly buy a base spec golf with a ****ty engine for the price you can buy the 170bhp Mito, but it wouldn't be worth driving. The Polo is in the right segment, but is still overpriced compared to the Mito. Alfa interiors are great & I don't understand your argument that you like old fashioned interiors... makes no sense to me, but each to their own.

Anyway the topic is about finding a small fuel efficient car. Not why you like Vages over other brands...

Right, we can discuss this in another because you're right, OT.

Scortho

Bluefoam wrote: »

Get yourself an Alfa Mito Quadrifiglio Verde, it has real world fuel consumption of 36+mpg & has the added bonus that you will soil yourself every time you look at it...

As an alfa fan I detest both the mito and giulietta.
Lovely looking cars, but not an alfa to drive.

HandsomeDan

Deleted User wrote: »

That's the 520 those are known to wreck engines by the timing chain breaking, it's certainly a car I would avoid, it's rampant.

Anything but rampant in that year - but what would you know you ****ing e-car loser

Cleveland Hot Pocket

HandsomeDan wrote: »

Anything but rampant in that year - but what would you know you ****ing e-car loser

:rolleyes:

There's always one.

Shure what were all the watchdog/consumer affairs programs about the engine then eh?

Alanstrainor

HandsomeDan wrote: »

Anything but rampant in that year - but what would you know you ****ing e-car loser

Banned

patmac

Anyone knows anything about the Opel Ampera?

The Ampera has about 20 winter range miles ev only and about 30-40 summer, the 2013 has a little more ev range.

After that you use the 1.4 L petrol engine as a generator, it can drive the wheels at high speed or when you floor the throttle.

So if you have a 60 mile total work commute and can charge at work or some other place you could get away with using very little petrol indeed.

Consumption in generator mode is about 45 mpg afaik.

The Ampera is very expensive and to be honest I like the idea of owning fully electric without having to maintain an engine in the process. Sure more range would be nice and that's where fast charging comes in.

It would be far cheaper to buy a leaf and get a loan of an ice for a day if charging at your destination is impossible. Why pay 15 grand extra for a car for the use of a generator for the least of your trips ?

Chippy01

Deleted User wrote: »

The Ampera has about 20 winter range miles ev only and about 30-40 summer, the 2013 has a little more ev range.

After that you use the 1.4 L petrol engine as a generator, it can drive the wheels at high speed or when you floor the throttle.

So if you have a 60 mile total work commute and can charge at work or some other place you could get away with using very little petrol indeed.

Consumption in generator mode is about 45 mpg afaik.

The Ampera is very expensive and to be honest I like the idea of owning fully electric without having to maintain an engine in the process. Sure more range would be nice and that's where fast charging comes in.

It would be far cheaper to buy a leaf and get a loan of an ice for a day if charging at your destination is impossible. Why pay 15 grand extra for a car for the use of a generator for the least of your trips ?

I heard that the Ampera will cost you somewhere around the 40 grand mark!!! :eek:

Chippy01

Chippy01 wrote: »

I heard that the Ampera will cost you somewhere around the 40 grand mark!!! :eek:

Yes, so in other words, spend an extra 15 grand over a new leaf for the few times a year you might actually not get away with fast charging where you could borrow a ice car or rent a LOT cheaper.

But the Irish price has not being released as it's not available in Ireland yet, if ever.

The Ampera will have vrt applied because only pure electrics are exempt for now.