Purchasing New Car maybe Electric

If range really was an issue, and driving costs then I would just convert a prius worth about 5-6 grand with 100,000 miles to lpg as they will go for 350,000 miles easily with proper maintenance.

That or get a PCP deal on a new leaf now and flog it in 3-4 years for the MK II.

RandomAccess

Just another caveat on the electric, I assume that most people charge them on the night rate?
In that case it would make an unexpected journey after you arrive home from work even more inconvenient.

Great to hear you have free power at work. Is it a wind turbine? Is any sold back to the grid? Would be pretty neat to be able to generate power at home as well so its completely cost free. That would be pretty satisfying.

RandomAccess

RandomAccess wrote: »

Just another caveat on the electric, I assume that most people charge them on the night rate?
In that case it would make an unexpected journey after you arrive home from work even more inconvenient.

You can charge on day rate leccy and it will still be much cheaper than petrol or diesel.

Just another note about the Ampera, It's strictly a 4 seater to make room for the battery, as incredible as that sounds.

I wouldn't mind only GM could fit a larger battery in the spark without effecting much space and it was designed to be only a petrol car.

I just checked Autotrader.co.uk and found a few Amperas, one with 20k miles for about 25,000 Euro's add VRT calculated at €1,986 so just under 27 grand and another about a grand more expensive with 10k miles, that's a lot cheaper than I expected, probably worth serious consideration for anyone afraid of electrics but want super economy and are spending the same money on a car.

Still, it's the same price as the highest spec Leaf with the optional 6.6kw charger.

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201309289005072/sort/default/usedcars/model/ampera/make/vauxhall/onesearchad/used/onesearchad/nearlynew/postcode/bs324nf/radius/1500/page/1?logcode=p

This one is about 380 pounds more.

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201308298517840/sort/default/usedcars/model/ampera/make/vauxhall/onesearchad/used/onesearchad/nearlynew/postcode/bs324nf/radius/1500/page/1?logcode=p

Scortho

patmac wrote: »

Anyone knows anything about the Opel Ampera?

Always reminds me of a civic that's stretched.

moonship

Does anybody know if there is any solution to home charger if one has no garage? What if from your house door opens straight onto public pathway and then is your parking space? So you dont have driveway? So many houses around many estates are built this way. Does esb mount charger on some kind of a pole on your parking space?

moonship

moonship wrote: »

Does anybody know if there is any solution to home charger if one has no garage? What if from your house door opens straight onto public pathway and then is your parking space? So you dont have driveway? So many houses around many estates are built this way. Does esb mount charger on some kind of a pole on your parking space?

Mounting the charger on a pole is possible provided it's your space and no one else can park there.

I would imagine it would not be a standard install though and might not be completely free. But talking to the ESB and "NOT" a Nissan dealer would be more advisable.

Leaf MK II will have induction charging as an option meaning the charging pad will be placed on the ground and you simply reverse over it, it is more inefficient.

moonship

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Mounting the charger on a pole is possible provided it's your space and no one else can park there.

I would imagine it would not be a standard install though and might not be completely free. But talking to the ESB and "NOT" a Nissan dealer would be more advisable.

Leaf MK II will have induction charging as an option meaning the charging pad will be placed on the ground and you simply reverse over it, it is more inefficient.

Thats good news, thanks for answer. I have contacted Esb e cars but customer service wasnt quite sure:-) some engineer is supposed to contac me.
Re induction charging, i guess it needs some instalation/wiring as well so it still may be problem if living in apt/not having garage.

Also, are public chargers still free of charge??

moonship

moonship wrote: »

Thats good news, thanks for answer. I have contacted Esb e cars but customer service wasnt quite sure:-) some engineer is supposed to contac me.
Re induction charging, i guess it needs some instalation/wiring as well so it still may be problem if living in apt/not having garage.

Also, are public chargers still free of charge??

Yes doing anything like this in any apartment is going to cause headaches. Especially if there are management companies involved.

If the ESB contractor won't install the charger for you, any contractor can do it, once you'r sure the space is yours and you can have it covered on the house insurance then that's all that matters but you might not get the free charger installation offer, as it might not cover non standard domestic installs.

Installing the induction pad wires would be underground as with the installation of a charger on a pole, then you got to take into account if some git will unplug your car for a laugh.

Again the space you put the charger must be yours and you'll need to make sure that no unauthorised individual can plug in.

Make sure if you get a 2013 MK 1.5 Leaf that you get the optional 6kw charger as it charges twice as fast as the MK I 2011-July ? 2013.
I've heard they don't offer PCP on the leaf because they can't determine the guaranteed future value, they can in the UK of course.

Yes all public charging is still free.

patmac

Quite like the look of the Yaris hybrid anyone got any thought on this it is claiming 80mpg so more likely closer to 65.

lafiamma09

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes currently for renting this poses a problem. The only thing you can do is public charge on the normal 22kw ac chargers, buy the leaf with 6.6kw charger and public charge for free in 3-4 hrs max depending on your charge level. Or fast charge, I presume you live in Dublin so there are a few scattered around. If you're getting work charging then that solves a lot of your charging woes. And you can have the advantage of a fully heated or cooled cabin when you get in !

There is no easy solution to work charging though, this won't change without EU directive, our Government wouldn't have the brains to think of a solution like that. As I said before I would pay a rental fee for the public chargers as I don't expect them to be free nor the upkeep, this way the ESB own the chargers and not the company and you get billed on your electric bill and their is no winging by companies.

However, there needs to be a bit of cop on and only install chargers as needed and only allow people to charge that are registered that absolutely need the (company) chargers to save on installing thousands of unnecessary chargers. The public chargers obviously anyone can charge at. But it would address one issue for apartment owners/renters and home owners that can't charge at home.

The other thing is as batteries become better and charging gets faster in the future it could make a lot of public chargers obsolete.

Leaf II will have an induction charging option also which would allow apartment owners to charge where otherwise pluging in isn't practicle, though you'll still have the problem of (what do I do with the charger when I move) This is why there needs to be a rental option for those who can't own chargers.

But perhaps have a chat with the ESB and see if they can make a deal that they can remove your old charger and install it in your new house, though this won't work if the landlord or management companies won't allow it. Again have a chat with the relevant people.

To answer your question about the portable charger or (e.v.s.e) you can get one in Ireland and I'll see if I can dig up the name of the company, or if someone else can ? it will charge much slower though and you need a proper socket in the location you wan't to charge, a proper extension lead is do-able provided it's fully extended which can cause it's own problems if people are walking around.



You're correct there is no battery rental option for Ireland, it should have been an option as why not allow the person decide ? However if you are a higher mileage driver and if you add up the rental charges per month over 3-5 years you'll find that if you do need to replace the battery you'll have paid for it regardless.

Nissan will only repair modules where Renault have said that their rental program means they will replace the whole pack once it reaches 75%. Though make sure this is in black and white. So if the battery worries you then the Zoe might be the better option, but again you'll have paid for the new battery anyway and if you sell the car, there goes your money. So I can only see the Renault battery rental good if you keep your car for 10 years, or for 2nd hand buyers. But not for new buyers.

So if you buy new on say a PCP plan, you dish up a deposit, say 8-9 grand. Pay x amount for 3 years (usually much lower monthly payments than a personal loan) or whatever then either pay it off and keep the car or use the Guaranteed future value they give you at the start to pay off the car, you then use any remaining value as a deposit for a new Leaf at the end of the lease and you don't worry about the battery.



Nissan themselves don't really know much about the car, When I test drove it in December they didn't even know the MK 1.5 was coming this summer or that it would have a more efficient heat pump heater and a faster charging option etc.

They are only interested in sales and in fairness not many dealers know the technical ins and outs of any car they sell.

[/QUOTE]


Thanks for that Mad_Lad, i appreciate you taking the time getting back to me. Ive been looking over various finance packages and loan interest rates with my bank, getting a 14reg looks a bit out of reach, but what im gonna do is hang on till january and see about getting a 131 sv. Im still very interested in any info you might have about that evse lead, thanks again.

lafiamma09

lafiamma09 wrote: »

Thanks for that Mad_Lad, i appreciate you taking the time getting back to me. Ive been looking over various finance packages and loan interest rates with my bank, getting a 14reg looks a bit out of reach, but what im gonna do is hang on till january and see about getting a 131 sv. Im still very interested in any info you might have about that evse lead, thanks again.[/QUOTE]

No problem at all.

Yeah you'd be better holding off for a 2nd hand MK 1.5 But remember that it's hard to spot the difference between a 2013 MK I and a 2013 MK 1.5

Here is a MK I (2011-2013 July ish) under the bonnet.



And the 2013 MK 1.5



It would be really worth while if you can find a 2nd hand Mk 1.5 with the upgraded 6kw charger.

It would also probably be well worth your while to get a Leaf from the U.K.

galwaytt

patmac wrote: »

Quite like the look of the Yaris hybrid anyone got any thought on this it is claiming 80mpg so more likely closer to 65.

I know someone getting over 60 mpg from a 00 reg Saxo that cost 1k.......the Yaris would want to return about 200 mpg to compare properly. ...

Sesshoumaru

I was reading something interesting on Popular Science the other day and it really made me think of EV discussions within the general motoring forum.

http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2013-09/why-were-shutting-our-comments

Basically they are turning off their comments section on their stories. The reason why they are doing it, I thought was fascinating. Sorry for quoting so much, but it really is interesting. I thought of posting this a while back, but decided against it. After reading the first half of the first page of this thread, I decided it was very relevant

It wasn't a decision we made lightly. As the news arm of a 141-year-old science and technology magazine, we are as committed to fostering lively, intellectual debate as we are to spreading the word of science far and wide. The problem is when trolls and spambots overwhelm the former, diminishing our ability to do the latter.

That is not to suggest that we are the only website in the world that attracts vexing commenters. Far from it. Nor is it to suggest that all, or even close to all, of our commenters are shrill, boorish specimens of the lower internet phyla. We have many delightful, thought-provoking commenters.

But even a fractious minority wields enough power to skew a reader's perception of a story, recent research suggests. In one study led by University of Wisconsin-Madison professor Dominique Brossard, 1,183 Americans read a fake blog post on nanotechnology and revealed in survey questions how they felt about the subject (are they wary of the benefits or supportive?). Then, through a randomly assigned condition, they read either epithet- and insult-laden comments ("If you don't see the benefits of using nanotechnology in these kinds of products, you're an idiot" ) or civil comments. The results, as Brossard and coauthor Dietram A. Scheufele wrote in a New York Times op-ed:

The actual results:

Uncivil comments not only polarized readers, but they often changed a participant's interpretation of the news story itself.
In the civil group, those who initially did or did not support the technology — whom we identified with preliminary survey questions — continued to feel the same way after reading the comments. Those exposed to rude comments, however, ended up with a much more polarized understanding of the risks connected with the technology.
Simply including an ad hominem attack in a reader comment was enough to make study participants think the downside of the reported technology was greater than they'd previously thought.

I really wonder what people with no car do when there is an emergency? Should owning an ICE powered car be declared a universal human right? :pac:

Sesshoumaru

patmac wrote: »

Hi I am buying new in 2014, have an 07 Suzuki Swift Petrol does about 40mpg, 185,000kms on the clock. Fuel efficiency is king and am tempted to go electric(Nissan Leaf possibly) as I travel a round trip of 100km to work each day and the cost is €70 per week in petrol.
I would like to hear from Electric Car owners to see how they are fairing with their cars or would I be better off going with a new diesel. The Clio is claiming 70mpg but I am not fond of Renault.
Budget is about €20k with trade in or scrappage if it is introduced in the next budget.
Any advice would be great.

If you haven't done so already, ask to join the Irish EV Owners group on Facebook and I will be sure to accept. A huge number of EV owners within the group and they will be extremely happy to give their real world experiences (good & bad) of owning an EV.

patmac

patmac wrote: »

Quite like the look of the Yaris hybrid anyone got any thought on this it is claiming 80mpg so more likely closer to 65.

I don't know much about it to be honest, 80 mpg ? I don't know, then again Toyota claim 62 mpg from the MK II Prius which I can easily achieve, and beat.

galwaytt

galwaytt wrote: »

I know someone getting over 60 mpg from a 00 reg Saxo that cost 1k.......the Yaris would want to return about 200 mpg to compare properly. ...

Sure you could buy a saxo for 1k, but not everyone wants to drive such a thing. I certainly wouldn't drive one if someone gave it to me.

patmac

Thanks for all the replies especially Mad Lad, I've decided to hang on for another while as I have been only offered €4500 for my 07 Suzuki Swift (185000 kms on the clock) and feel if I am getting 40mpg + then I may as well get another year or 2 out of it and hope that ev's might improve by then. Hybrids will not suit me because I do very little urban driving so Superminis are out. I like the Kia Ceed Diesel so may switch next year or earlier if scrappage comes in as my wife has an old starlet. Anyway thanks again and Happy motoring.

No problem Patmac.

Obviously a pcp deal would have been great if buying new then you can flog it when the new model comes out, and hop right into the MK II in about 2016-17 ish. It will almost certainly have more range, so save up and wait would be the best thing to do.

If the Suzuki is worth 4500 Euro's then getting a loan of 27K + interest and not to mention depreciation is a lot of petrol, but it's nice to have a newer car so you can either spend it on the fuel or the car, I'd rather the car to be honest.

I wouldn't buy a new petrol or diesel again because of the cost of petrol/diesel and vrt, paying back a loan + interest along with fuel is too much wasted money for me, then at 40 mpg you stand to save a lot more than me depending on the amount of miles you do a year.

Anyway good luck and don't rush into anything.

lafiamma09

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Thanks for that Mad_Lad, i appreciate you taking the time getting back to me. Ive been looking over various finance packages and loan interest rates with my bank, getting a 14reg looks a bit out of reach, but what im gonna do is hang on till january and see about getting a 131 sv. Im still very interested in any info you might have about that evse lead, thanks again.

No problem at all.

Yeah you'd be better holding off for a 2nd hand MK 1.5 But remember that it's hard to spot the difference between a 2013 MK I and a 2013 MK 1.5

Here is a MK I (2011-2013 July ish) under the bonnet.



And the 2013 MK 1.5



It would be really worth while if you can find a 2nd hand Mk 1.5 with the upgraded 6kw charger.

It would also probably be well worth your while to get a Leaf from the U.K.[/quote]

I was led to believe there is no saving in getting a leaf from the UK, that the price works out the same. I prefer to pay the outright price rather than a monthly rental fee. Would looking towards the UK be worth it? As I understand it no vrt if the car has over 6000 kms and 6 months old?

lafiamma09

lafiamma09 wrote: »

I was led to believe there is no saving in getting a leaf from the UK, that the price works out the same. I prefer to pay the outright price rather than a monthly rental fee. Would looking towards the UK be worth it? As I understand it no vrt if the car has over 6000 kms and 6 months old?

Yes something like that though exactly I can't say, but 6 months an 6,000 kms sounds about right.

Do you mean you'd rather pay the full price of the car rather than finance or loan ? or monthly battery rental ?

Some MK 1.5 leafs have the battery rental but some don't.

For new buyers of Leaf or Zoe then the rental makes no sense because you'll most likely have flogged it before the battery ever becomes an issue. But it makes perfect sense for the 2nd hand buyer of higher mileage ev's.

lafiamma09

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Yes something like that though exactly I can't say, but 6 months an 6,000 kms sounds about right.

Do you mean you'd rather pay the full price of the car rather than finance or loan ? or monthly battery rental ?

Some MK 1.5 leafs have the battery rental but some don't.

For new buyers of Leaf or Zoe then the rental makes no sense because you'll most likely have flogged it before the battery ever becomes an issue. But it makes perfect sense for the 2nd hand buyer of higher mileage ev's.

Battery rental is what I was talking about. As a quick exercise I checked a few in the UK and very quickly found a 1 year old SVE with all the trimmings, no hpi, no rent on batteries - paid for, 4700 miles for €15900... That's a huge saving in my eyes, would have to be kept in the drive for a few weeks till the mileage went up...

650Ginge

lafiamma09 wrote: »

Battery rental is what I was talking about. As a quick exercise I checked a few in the UK and very quickly found a 1 year old SVE with all the trimmings, no hpi, no rent on batteries - paid for, 4700 miles for €15900... That's a huge saving in my eyes, would have to be kept in the drive for a few weeks till the mileage went up...

Interesting.

keithclancy

Deleted User wrote: »

For new buyers of Leaf or Zoe then the rental makes no sense because you'll most likely have flogged it before the battery ever becomes an issue. But it makes perfect sense for the 2nd hand buyer of higher mileage ev's.

There are only two things putting me off EVs, this ^^

And the range thing.

I've never purchased a new car before

keithclancy

keithclancy wrote: »

There are only two things putting me off EVs, this ^^

And the range thing.

I've never purchased a new car before

Of course it's too early to know the condition of the battery after say 60,000 miles, very early rare data would suggest in US climate of a 15% loss of capacity after 80,000 miles but this is not known if it's wear and tear or a heat issue. Certainly the only known issues so far have been in hot US states.

On the U.K Leaf forum some people are starting to get aps and gadgets to show the state of battery condition, some with 20K miles show an 8% loss of battery capacity (HOWEVER) this is not known yet if it's related to cooler temperatures because the battery can't except a full charge with cooler temps.

The battery aps do show a change in capacity readings with different battery temperatures which would suggest the loss is due to temps rather than battery degradation. Time will tell of course as the weather gets much colder over the coming weeks and this will be reflected by lower ah (amp hour) readings from the battery.

The real test of course is in the Summer if the capacity comes up in relation to the warmer weather, though the battery itself does take time to adjust to the changes in temperatures.

I get a lot of flack over on the U.K Leaf forum because I dare question the Leaf, maybe they think I'm a troll which has been suggested because I'm not an actual Leaf owner and they think I'm trying to discredit the leaf somehow.

I certainly won't be getting a Leaf until I get a lot more data because While I do think the Leaf is truly a great car to drive and I absolutely would love one, I don't want to get stung with the miles I do.

This is why I say if buying a new car every 3 years the battery won't concern anyone, after this and 60,k miles is unknown.

lafiamma09

lafiamma09 wrote: »

Battery rental is what I was talking about. As a quick exercise I checked a few in the UK and very quickly found a 1 year old SVE with all the trimmings, no hpi, no rent on batteries - paid for, 4700 miles for €15900... That's a huge saving in my eyes, would have to be kept in the drive for a few weeks till the mileage went up...

from 2011 to the MK 1.5 there was only one high spec trim available.

There is a 2012 with 5k miles for 14,100 Euro's on autotrader.co.uk that imo is disgracefully cheap ! If I only could get it now I'd be paying a deposit on it today and getting it Monday, (independently checked by a mechanic of course) I bet by Tuesday it will be gone !!! Though on electrics most mechanics will only be able to tell you if it's been crashed, and the paperwork is correct etc, while I'd probably know more about the electrics at this stage, I'd bring my leaf spy app and android tablet and OBD II bluetooth adapter !

I would get 6k for the Prius and only pay 8 grand, that's absolutely mental cheap for what is essentially a brand new car that's fantastic to drive.

However next year will see MK 1.5 2nd hand coming with the much more efficient heat pump, though there will be different trims on the MK 1.5 and I'd be on the watch out for the 6kw charger.

But 8 grand to change and the cost to run would be 1.80 per 60-80 miles or 50 Euro's per 2400 miles.

What's the cost of a tank of petrol or diesel these days for what 300-500 miles ? cost to fill a Golf tdi with what 55 litre tank ? 85 Euro's for 600 miles @50 mpg ? :pac:

keithclancy

Deleted User wrote: »

Of course it's too early to know the condition of the battery after say 60,000 miles, very early rare data would suggest in US climate of a 15% loss of capacity after 80,000 miles but this is not known if it's wear and tear or a heat issue. Certainly the only known issues so far have been in hot US states.

On the U.K Leaf forum some people are starting to get aps and gadgets to show the state of battery condition, some with 20K miles show an 8% loss of battery capacity (HOWEVER) this is not known yet if it's related to cooler temperatures because the battery can't except a full charge with cooler temps.

The battery aps do show a change in capacity readings with different battery temperatures which would suggest the loss is due to temps rather than battery degradation. Time will tell of course as the weather gets much colder over the coming weeks and this will be reflected by lower ah (amp hour) readings from the battery.

The real test of course is in the Summer if the capacity comes up in relation to the warmer weather, though the battery itself does take time to adjust to the changes in temperatures.

I get a lot of flack over on the U.K Leaf forum because I dare question the Leaf, maybe they think I'm a troll which has been suggested because I'm not an actual Leaf owner and they think I'm trying to discredit the leaf somehow.

I certainly won't be getting a Leaf until I get a lot more data because While I do think the Leaf is truly a great car to drive and I absolutely would love one, I don't want to get stung with the miles I do.

This is why I say if buying a new car every 3 years the battery won't concern anyone, after this and 60,k miles is unknown.

For me anyway I would need to live at the most 10 km from work and have a driveway to charge it.

If that was my situation i'd consider getting one.

keithclancy

keithclancy wrote: »

For me anyway I would need to live at the most 10 km from work and have a driveway to charge it.

If that was my situation i'd consider getting one.

why 10 kms ?

keithclancy

Deleted User wrote: »

why 10 kms ?

Because sometimes I want to go somewhere directly from work
Or have plenty of range left over when I get home to go somewhere else immediately.

Its not about fitting my life around a car, its about fitting a car into my life