41st Berlin Marathon

Amateurrunner

Anyone else thinking about a last minute entry into the Dublin Marathon? I'm probably being a bit nuts as it is so close and i'm not very amateur at this running but I felt good at the end of Berlin and i'm starting to think i've done all the training so could I use that for Dublin too but maybe i'd be risking injury.

dukeraoul

Jnealon wrote: »

I'm glad I am not the only one who thought the pacer was a header, he was all over the place

Wait is this the Berlin thread or the Dublin sub 3:40 pacer appreciation thread... I'm confused

WithCheesePlease

Amateurrunner wrote: »

Anyone else thinking about a last minute entry into the Dublin Marathon? I'm probably being a bit nuts as it is so close and i'm not very amateur at this running but I felt good at the end of Berlin and i'm starting to think i've done all the training so could I use that for Dublin too but maybe i'd be risking injury.

I signed up yesterday

RayCun

Amateurrunner wrote: »

Anyone else thinking about a last minute entry into the Dublin Marathon? I'm probably being a bit nuts as it is so close and i'm not very amateur at this running but I felt good at the end of Berlin and i'm starting to think i've done all the training so could I use that for Dublin too but maybe i'd be risking injury.

I don't see what is to be gained by running Dublin so soon after Berlin (except as a pacer or something)

FBOT01

WithCheesePlease wrote: »

.......At around 36K I realised I was closing in on FBOT01 and a check of my garmin told me I was still running to pace so I gave him a little shout and he told me to carry on past. I think what actually happened though was a combination of FBOT01 starting to ease up a little struggle and my garmin lying to me, as I ran that KM in 3:29 - a whopping 45 seconds faster than I was supposed to. I'm still not sure what happened there. But those seconds I put in the bank either saved me later or were the reason for my near downfall, I'm still not sure which!!

WithCheesePlease wrote: »

.......Another thing that made the weekend though was meeting up with the boards peeps. It was great to put faces to the usernames and spend time hanging out. I also can't help but feel I owe FBOT01 massively for my sub-3, even if he missed out on his own by the slimmest of margins, but I'm sure that won't make him feel any better. Not only that but I told him I owed him a pint and he somehow managed to pay my bar-tab later in the night, so I'm extra in his debt!

This started as a little post and has morphed into a bit of a race report so I'm going to leave it there! For those of you running DCM I'll hopefully see ye there. And to the rest of you, it was a genuine pleasure meeting you all in Berlin.

Happy to help, G....apparently I wouldn't be the first 3hr pacer from these parts that got the bus home safely without being on it

Hopefully, catch up with you in McGrattans after DCM to cash in my tab;)

WithCheesePlease

RayCun wrote: »

I don't see what is to be gained by running Dublin so soon after Berlin (except as a pacer or something)

Yeah, I'm in as a sub pacer. If I was to do it at all it'd be to enjoy the occasion and not to push for any kind of PB so to do it as a pacer would be ideal.

Although I hear lunatics like yaboya1 and loughie are heading out to try to give their Berlin times a thrashing...

tHE vAGGABOND

everyone, pardon Ray, he is grumpy and old

RayCun

:pac:

I think people can go two ways after a marathon, either "OMG I am never doing that again" or "when can I sign up for the next one?"
Usually better to let the dust settle before making a decision.

belcarra

RayCun wrote: »

:pac:

I think people can go two ways after a marathon, either "OMG I am never doing that again" or "when can I sign up for the next one?"
Usually better to let the dust settle before making a decision.

Except for when the deadline for DCM is today!:pac:

belcarra

Great to meet everybody in Berlin over the weekend!
Well done to everyone who got their times, and for those that 'eased up' - better luck next time!

See you all in McGrattan's after Dublin hopefully!

parkruns2maras

Had to pull out just before 30km mark as calves seized up, plus they didn't feel right from about 8k onwards. Better to stop that to injure myself. In regards to the pacers, they were all over the place. Was trying to follow the 4:30, he was so speedy I couldnt even see him anymore! I started just behind the 4:10.
Bring on DCM!

jahaco

yaboya1 wrote: »

Bib No.| Username | PB | Predicted Time | Actual Time
6504 |Terry049|3:08:27|2:52:00|2:59:30
8361 |yaboya1|3:08:26|2:54:59|2:59:11
18580|loughie|3:01:26| 2:59:12| 2:56:52
|Ferris B|3:12:21|2:59:55| DNS
19591 |FBOT01|3:13:16|2:59:59|3:00:59
8203|Caprica|2:56:08|2:59:59|3:00:31
19688|mcwotever|3:10:50|3:06:00|3:04:40
13171|withcheeseplease|3:17:29|3:08:00|2:59:58
8076|jahaco|3:11:49| 3:09:00|3:14:59
2417|Marthastew|3:12:51|3:09:59|3:24:29
21853|Lex Luther|2:59:38|sub 3:10|3:18:54
27959|PDCAT|3:36:14| 3:29:59|3:26:57
19676|Benny Bulben|3:25:08|3:35:00|3:25:00
20759|benedictine monk|3:42:xx|3:39:59|3:59:14
20820 |Murph_D|3:46:15|3:39:59|3:36:17
20443|dwayneshintzy|3:48:09|3:39:59|3:52:32
7903|belcarra|3:21:12|<4:00:00|3:59:52
F5813 |niamhpamela|4:02:56|3:59:59|3:58:17
19579|jmcc99_98|4:04:35|3:59:59|4:01:36
F5811 |Amateurrunner|4:18:00|3:59:59|3:58:17


Bored this morning so thought I'd fill this in. Didn't get to meet everybody unfortunately. Some awesome performances in there with many of the targets well & truly smashed. Not one DNF either. Impressive for such a big group

Updated. Thanks.

ClashCityRocker

Jnealon wrote: »

I'm glad I am not the only one who thought the pacer was a header, he was all over the place

Was there only the one 3 hour pacer? I thought you'd have a few?

RayCun

belcarra wrote: »

Except for when the deadline for DCM is today!:pac:

that way lies madness

WithCheesePlease

ClashCityRocker wrote: »

Was there only the one 3 hour pacer? I thought you'd have a few?

I think there was 2 to start with but one of them lost his balloon pretty much straight away. I think anyway, that's all I could see. But yeah, I'd have expected more.

I saw the 3 hour pacer finish just ahead of me after he sprinted past me (it felt like that anyway) within the last 2 miles by himself. I'm not sure if anyone was still with him at that stage.

yaboya1

I think we take for granted how good the pacers are in Dublin. This guy we're talking about is a couple of yards behind me at 40k in my video. He sprinted by me at 41k, and coming under the Brandenburg Gate he's 100m+ behind me. My pace in that time barely changed (7:00min/mile approx) and was slower than he should have been going if running even splits, yet I took more than 100m out of him in 1k?

jahaco

WithCheesePlease wrote: »

I think there was 2 to start with but one of them lost his balloon pretty much straight away. I think anyway, that's all I could see. But yeah, I'd have expected more.

I saw the 3 hour pacer finish just ahead of me after he sprinted past me (it felt like that anyway) within the last 2 miles by himself. I'm not sure if anyone was still with him at that stage.

I saw the red balloon go free well ahead of me before the first roundabout, but was then surprised to be passed much further on by at least 2 red balloon carrying runners with a few people in tow (among them a guy with a prosthetic leg..blade). There were other red balloons in the air later on so they can't have been well attached. Didn't see any 3:15 pacers though.

jfh

WithCheesePlease wrote: »

I think there was 2 to start with but one of them lost his balloon pretty much straight away. I think anyway, that's all I could see. But yeah, I'd have expected more.

I saw the 3 hour pacer finish just ahead of me after he sprinted past me (it felt like that anyway) within the last 2 miles by himself. I'm not sure if anyone was still with him at that stage.

i never saw the 3 hour pace until about mile 16 - 17, and i was thinking i was bang on for 3 hrs, when i did catch him, it took me by surpise, he wasn't that noticeable and yes he was definitely surging, i ran with him for about 5 -6 miles, we were pretty much on our own for the last 3 miles, when i upped the pace, he would go with me, it was kinda like we were racing each other.

i'm not sure about pacers for 3 hrs anyway but that's a personal thing

loughie

WithCheesePlease wrote: »

Although I hear lunatics like yaboya1 and loughie are heading out to try to give their Berlin times a thrashing...

I would like to qualify the above, well at least for me . My plan for Dublin is to pace a mate for as long as I can and then hopefully he can push on to a PB. Dublin was always going to be a backup plan, victory lap after Berlin:D

dwayneshintzy

I faded very badly after 23 miles....I'd got to the starting line late, so was right at the back of H instead of in the earlier group, which did cause a lot of unnecessary overtaking. Would have liked to follow the 3:30 pacers to at least halfway, but to be perfectly honest I just didn't do enough training. Disappointed not to at the very least break my PB, but sure at least it wasn't my slowest time either.

jmcc99_98

Hi all.

I though I would share a few of my thoughts on the weekend.

Firstly thanks to @loughie and his OH who we shared a taxi with to the expo on Saturday morning - Took the hassle out of getting trains, buses etc. Although we almost ended up going to the completely wrong place. Good work Loughie BTW loughie, what an incredible time!!!

I came in on Saturday morning, in retrospect this wasnt a great idea, We were up early for flight, hassle of getting through two airports, getting taxi to expo, walking for what seemed like miles to the number pick up area, walking back, taxi to hotel to check in - All of the while carrying our luggage. Checked in and then off to Oscar Wilde to see hurling match. Didnt really get to see the match as there was standing room only so we didnt hang about. All in all though it left me pretty tired and the legs heavy.

The morning of the race went smoothly, no difficulties getting around etc. The organisation is superb tbh. They managed to get 40k people bags checked in, in to the starting position and away on time without any major hassle.

The race itself wasnt great from my experience, I found it terribly terribly congested, it never really strung out at all, some parts being worse than others. Also I couldnt get over the carry on at the waterstations, people stopping dead in their tracks to get water, which with the congestion caused pile-ups, other people would, without a thought in the world, swing from one side of the road to the other to get a drink causing all sorts of hassle behind them. Also the large Gel station was tough, there was so much gel on the ground that my runners were sticking to it - as if it wasnt hard enough, you now had to contend with running on velcro surfaces

I found the crowds quite subdued and not very encouraging, with a few exceptions, I liked the people on their balcony on the right hand side who appeared to be having a party - they were cool, also some other really encouraging people along the way.

From the get go I was on a little bit of a loser, my Garmin was way off (Which I didnt really realise til too late) I had aimed for sub-4 and training led me to believe that I could possibly aim for 3:55ish. My garmin was saying sub 9 minute for every mile, so I knew I was banking seconds at each Mile which would help me get under sub 4. Once I started to do the math between what my watch was telling me and what the Km markers were saying I started getting a little concerned/confused. However I plodded on regardless. Got a hello from @belcarra along the way, maybe the 16 mile mark, and met up with him again around mile 22/23. A big thanks to you Belcarra for attempting to drag me along with you to get in under the 4 (which you did comfortably) but I was on my last legs at that stage and just couldnt find it in me. By the way Belcarra, I didnt make it to the Oscar Wilde that night, ended up drinking in a "local" bar near the hotel (I was staying on Potsdamer Platz) had a great night all the same.

I finished in 4:01:36 which was 97 secs slower than I had aimed for, normally that would really annoy me, but the heat was a killer for me, and my pacing was incorrect from the very get go so that didnt help. For any of ye that are interested this is the link to me race - You will see the splits, my average pace was 8:59 (Which is comfortably under 4hrs and also it says I ran 26.9miles!!!! http://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/602226090

The watch was the same for me in DCM 13 where it says that I ran 26.7 (Although I wasnt going to make the 4 hour on that occassion in any event) Does anyone else have this problem with their Garmin or hear anything about this? It is a bit useless in ways if it in fact hinders you as opposed to helping you.

Also on the issue of pacers, I stood about 50-60 meters behind the 4hr markers in the starting pens, I also had a 4 hour pacer behind me about 20 mts, I thought I would just try to stay in between the two of them and hopefully eventually gain on the 4hr group ahead of me. That was fine except the 4 hour guy behind me (Wearing a kilt) was passing me like a bullet, which was freaking me out and I would then catch him a mile or two later and pass him, sure enough a mile or so later he would zip by me again, only for me to catch and pass him again, this happened up until around halfway and was really off-putting because I didnt know if he was going too fast, I was going to slow, or the 4hour pacers ahead of me were going to slow.

Overall a great experience and again thanks to Loughie and Belcarra for their respective contrubutions to my weekend. I enjoyed it, but wouldnt be in a rush to run it again - congestion and water stations were tough to deal with.

RayCun

You will normally run further than 26.2 miles in a marathon, especially in a crowded time zone. They measure the race just out from the kerb on the straight sections, running the tangents on corners (the blue line in Berlin is the line they measured) and you won't get close to that when there are loads of people around you.
For your next marathon, you should set your pace to be a second or two a mile faster than you 'should' need, and wear a pace band that says what time you should hit each mile/km marker, and check your time as you pass each one.

BeepBeep67

^ what he said, even aim for 3-4 secs faster per mile on the Garmin splits (an important factor for training paces also).

niamhpamela

jmc I had a very similar experience as you, including finding the heat tough and hating the water stations. But I had my garmin in kms so I knew fairly quickly that my watch was off compared to the KM signs and adjusted my pace. Also I found the pacing band really really useful for checking my progress, would recommend you use one next time (if there is a next time). Even though I hit my target I still preferred Dublin.

jmcc99_98

Yes, definitely the next time I will use the pacing band as well as the garmin, I tried to use the blue line as much as possible, and fully expected that the distance I would eventually run would be further than 26.2, but I didnt expect there to be such a massive difference, i.e. watch tells me I ran over a KM further on Sunday than I did, and almost a KM further in Dublin last year. Surely the variance cant be that much?

The huge benefit of getting so close to 4 again is that it is already spurring me on to beat it. I had to do everthing within my power to stop myself signing up for DCM14 yesterday at 4:30 - but I think it would have been too much, body feels tired and abused so will give it some time to recover.

Overall I would rather Dublin too.

Looking at Paris in April 2015 though .... any takers?

belcarra

A few comments J:
It was good to meet you and hard luck again. As I said after the race, I think you should look to 3:50-3:45 for your next marathon so as to take a decent leap across the 4hr mark. It will happen next time out!

My Garmin measured 43.5km. Yes, 43.5km!! My watch has been useless the past few months but generally once the first km or two have been ran it settles down. On Sunday it didn't and at several points I reset the km split to match the course km markers and nearly always it measured short.
As Niamh mentioned above I knew I couldn't trust the pace and therefore did rough arithmetic at the 5km mats.
I knew by halfway I was on for a 3:55 time if I maintained my pace but by 35km I knew it was going to be tight for 4hrs. Most of this slowdown was as a result of stopping with my gf once for about a minute (this is when you repassed me at 33.5km!) but I also had to stop at each of the water stations for about 10secs at a time both to get water into my mouth from the plastic cups, and also to avoid people cutting in.
I would definitely say that Berlin is not ideally suited to a 4hr PB performance because of this congestion. What it saves in the non-existence of hills it loses in these slowdowns at that pace.
If you were around the 3hr pace then I'd imagine it would be a bit thinner and therefore more manageable (albeit still tricky to drink from the cups!).

I felt the 4hr pacers were a little erratic also so I just ran my own race. I to'ed and fro'ed with them several times over the course.

Pity you didn't make it to the OW that evening, though I'm sure your pub was a fair bit nicer!
Whenever I return to Berlin the meetup pub will definitely be changing! :cool::D

PS: I forgot to confirm your issues with the gel station stickiness! It was mad. For about 400m it felt like we were running on sticky tape!
Definitely cost us a few seconds, perhaps even 97 of them!;);)

niamhpamela

I've heard bad things about Paris, mainly really bad congestion. It's funny from Sunday til Tuesday I was adamant that I would never run a marathon again but I'm already forgetting the pain! Think I might give my body a year off though, think my knee (that's had full ACL replacement) needs a break. Might apply for London 2016.

My Berlin experience was massively improved when my boyfriend proposed at the finish! :-D

jmcc99_98

Cool niamhpamela, Thats great news. Congratulations.

Marthastew

niamhpamela wrote: »

I've heard bad things about Paris, mainly really bad congestion. It's funny from Sunday til Tuesday I was adamant that I would never run a marathon again but I'm already forgetting the pain! Think I might give my body a year off though, think my knee (that's had full ACL replacement) needs a break. Might apply for London 2016.

My Berlin experience was massively improved when my boyfriend proposed at the finish! :-D

Congratulations!!!:D:D:D Now that is something to celebrate!! (Congrats on your great run also)

It was great to meet up with lots of you in The Oscar Wilde, pity we missed some people also. A super weekend for Mr Stew and I and my long, rambling race report can be found here

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=92444092&postcount=1645

Although anyone signed up for Chicago/Amsterdam/Frankfurt/DCM should give it a miss as it may take you a few weeks to read;);)

Caprica

Ran this last week in 3:00:31 and initially on crossing the line I was happy with the result as I had given the race a real go and just came up short but looking back I really should have gone under the 3, I lost over a minute on my 5k from 35k to 40k and while I pulled some time back in the last 2k the damage was done.

The plan was to go out under 90 to halfway, aiming for 6:50 miles along the way and then hold that pace for as long as I could. I had a relaxed first mile and then got into a rhythm, churning out miles in the 6:40 range and hit half way in a comfortable 89:07 (time banked for the end if needed). At this point I was still behind the pacer (I first seen him at mile 10), who was at least 30 seconds ahead of us, I reckon he was on sub 2:57 at this point.

At this point I was happy to just sit of the back of the pace group and pick people of as they fell back, I think a lot of runners were starting to pay for the pacers agression. Things were going well through 14 - 18 miles, just before the 19 mile mark my Garmin started playing up, and while trying to sort it out I switched of the GPS (don't know how I done that) but in doing that the gap to the pacing group increased, still nothing to worry about.

For the next mile or two I was working hard (legs started to feel a bit heavy) but the gap to the pacer was not increasing. Around the 33k mark the gap started to increase and even though I tried to respond I couldn't manage to catch him again and the next time I seen him was after the finish line. Going through 35k I was still happy that I could do it as I had been running strong but it became a real struggle, I was pushing as hard as I could and while I was passing people a lot more were passing me. At this point the heat was starting to get to me, I was glad to have ran with the sponge given to us and I used it at every water station to cool me down.

Having done Berlin before I was familiar with finishing straight but I forgot how many turns and corners there was before that and I found myself really desperate to get to that finishing stretch. When I hit the 40k mark I increased the pace as best I could but even before I hit the Brandenburg Gate sub 3 was gone.

If I'm being honest the training I put in was not good enough to deserve a sub 3 (it was nothing near what I had done for my previous sub 3's) but it was due more to an injured hamstring over the August bank holiday. This really prevented me from moving my training on and in no week did I run over 40mls, my long runs really suffered and I only did two twenty mile LSR's (as opposed to a planned 5 20+). But the funny thing was that my racing was pretty decent with a 63 min in the Frank Duffy 10 and under 85 in the Athlone half. I guess you can't fool the marathon distance.

The positive is that I can definitley go under sub 3 again and with a training plan that goes well I can definitely improve on my 2:56.

Well done to everyone who took part, it is an amazing race and well suited to PB's.