Amanda Knox retrial begins

Femme_Fatale

Aidric wrote: »

The amount of conjecture around this case is staggering.

Including weird tarnishing of Knox's character, based on... I'm not sure what. Normal behaviour for a late teens/early 20-something woman at college? She and Meredith apparently did not get on... yet went to a concert together where Amanda met the boyfriend.
A case where serious reading between the lines needs to be done constantly.

Muise...

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Including weird tarnishing of Knox's character, based on... I'm not sure what. Normal behaviour for a late teens/early 20-something woman at college? She and Meredith apparently did not get on... yet went to a concert together where Amanda met the boyfriend.
A case where serious reading between the lines needs to be done constantly.

based on... evidence from housemates and other people she freaked out with her behaviour.

Merkin

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

That's the thing. I'm no forensics expert (There! Bet that shocked ya :pac:) but if something is contaminated after 47 days, wouldn't it be contaminated with other stuff besides the DNA of a person who hasn't been next or near it for most of that 47 days?

What?!!! I thought you moonlight in CSI when not on Boards!

Exactly my point re bra, it's why I don't understand that contamination was even raised as an issue given that the DNA was there in the first place!

Merkin

Paully D wrote: »

It's an extremely interesting read. I flew through it over a couple of days. It's widely recognised as being the best, most impartial read on the subject.

I started the book last night Paully and am already hooked. John Follain delves into her character a little bit and it seems Knox was known for being a little socially inappropriate and missing social queues, very interesting, especially in light of her behaviour in the immediate aftermath of the killing and why she came across as, well, odd for want of a better word! Very enjoyable so far, would recommend for anyone interested in the case.

Merkin

A very interesting development. I wonder is Sollecito going to turn on Knox after all this time?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/meredith-kercher-killing-raffaele-sollecito-admits-questioning-amanda-knoxs-behaviour-after-british-student-was-murdered-9151182.html

Merkin

New theory presented by Italian court. Seems a lot more plausible than some sex game gone wrong.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/amanda-knox-killed-meredith-kercher-over-row-court-says-1.1777943

olliesgirl55

Wattle wrote: »

Not necessarily. The American authorities are on her side and I think it's very unlikely that they would allow her to be extradited. I don't think she can be forced to serve time either in the U.S. The Americans simply won't recognise a guilty verdict and the Italian authorities cannot force her imprisonment.

I agree if she is found guilty this will probably happen. If in the future though if she stepped foot in another EU country she would be arrested and sent to Italy. Or possibly if she goes to another country she could be arrested if Italy goes for a red notice on her through Interpol.

I thought the trial was a joke and the overturning of the verdict was the right thing to do. She and the guy should not have been re-tried at all period. All DNA evidence was proved to be tainted. I think we wont see the final outcome of this for a few more years.
The guy in jail for this confessed and stated he acted alone. This whole trial is a PR stunt by the prosecution.

olliesgirl55

Merkin wrote: »

New theory presented by Italian court. Seems a lot more plausible than some sex game gone wrong.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/amanda-knox-killed-meredith-kercher-over-row-court-says-1.1777943

It's just a theory though. Very little usable evidence to back it up. The only way we will know the truth if one of them confesses (that is if they were part of the murder in the first place)

Muise...

olliesgirl55 wrote: »

I agree if she is found guilty this will probably happen. If in the future though if she stepped foot in another EU country she would be arrested and sent to Italy. Or possibly if she goes to another country she could be arrested if Italy goes for a red notice on her through Interpol.

I thought the trial was a joke and the overturning of the verdict was the right thing to do. She and the guy should not have been re-tried at all period. All DNA evidence was proved to be tainted. I think we wont see the final outcome of this for a few more years.
The guy in jail for this confessed and stated he acted alone. This whole trial is a PR stunt by the prosecution.

No, on the contrary; he never confessed and he did blame the other two, just off the record as he went for a fast-trial bargain of a shorter sentence.

.jacksparrow.

Muise... wrote: »

No, on the contrary; he never confessed and he did blame the other two, just off the record as he went for a fast-trial bargain of a shorter sentence.

He initially denied knowing them, then said both were present.

Hmmm very convenient.

Windorah

Iv followed this case from the beginning and read her book "waiting to be heard" and also "angel face" which was written by a journalist attending the trial.

She is guilty. She might have been off her head on drink and drugs but either way she is 100% guilty in my eyes!

Da Shins Kelly

Claudio Hellmann, the judge who initially overturned Knox's guilty verdict, has come out in opposition to the decision to retry her. He says that the new story that has been put forth to convict her is "fantasy" and reads like a "movie script" rather than real evidence.

Arthur Beesley

Windorah wrote: »

She is guilty. She might have been off her head on drink and drugs but either way she is 100% guilty in my eyes!

In YOUR opinion.

mitosis

Arthur Beesley wrote: »

In YOUR opinion.

That's what she said!!

Originally Posted by Windorah
She is guilty. She might have been off her head on drink and drugs but either way she is 100% guilty in my eyes!

Montroseee

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/07/01/world/europe/italy-amanda-knox-ex-boyfriend/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

Quite a significant and recent development in relation to this murder.

Sollecito distancing himself from Knox and now claiming that she was not with him for the entire night. Their story of events never made sense and this constant changing of stories is not indicative and typical of an innocent person. It never was plausible that one person committed this murder alone, I hope justice is finally done after so long.

Tayla

Montroseee wrote: »

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/07/01/world/europe/italy-amanda-knox-ex-boyfriend/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

Quite a significant and recent development in relation to this murder.

Sollecito distancing himself from Knox and now claiming that she was not with him for the entire night. Their story of events never made sense and this constant changing of stories is not indicative and typical of an innocent person. It never was plausible that one person committed this murder alone, I hope justice is finally done after so long.

Actually he's not making new claims at all, this has all been said before.

Anyway even if he hadn't said it in the past, I wouldn't think it was significant, I would just see it as desperation because the poor man knows more than likely he is going to be locked up for something he didn't do but Amanda has more of a chance of freedom because she may not be extradited.

Check out this video where he says he is not changing his story.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2014/jul/01/i-am-innocent-amanda-knoxs-ex-boyfriend-raffaele-sollecito-video

Tayla

Also watch this video from the same press conference where he says he still believes Amanda is innocent and you will see why now he may be placing more emphasis on Amanda not being there.

It is because the court report said that this is the way it happened on that night so Raffaele is saying fine if you believe that that happened then where do I fit into the theory?

Some of the things I have seen reported about Sollecitos comments are scandalous and twisted completely to make it look like he is throwing her under the bus when he is not doing that at all.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/10937559/Raffaele-Sollecito-switches-defence-strategy-to-potentially-incriminate-Knox.html

Amazingfun

Here we go again:

Amazingfun

An Italian high court will delay its ruling on whether to uphold Amanda Knox’s murder conviction until Friday due to the amount of evidence being heard, a judge said Wednesday.

Presiding judge Gennaro Marasca said the last statement from a defense lawyer would be given at 9 a.m. on Friday before the court retires. A decision was expected later that day.

http://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-italy-knox-20150325-story.html

Amazingfun

Jury has been deliberating for nine hours now.....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/11498838/Amanda-Knox-awaits-Italy-supreme-court-ruling-on-Kercher-verdict-live.html

Amazingfun

It's over!

Andrea Vogt ‏@andreavogt 1m1 minute ago Rome, Lazio
#amandaknox convictions have been completely overturned. She is a free woman.

qt3.14

Amazingfun wrote: »

It's over!

Can this be appealed again or anything or is it really over for her?
Italian court cases seem never ending with all the different places it can be taken.

Dozen Wicked Words

What's going on with the former boyfriend, is he to be retried or is that overturned too?

Spunge

Amazingfun wrote: »

It's over!

well thats the end of our fun. RIP thread.

Amazingfun

Spunge wrote: »

well thats the end of our fun. RIP thread.

To be honest it's been pretty quiet on here for a while. I can't understand how people seem to lose interest just because it's slid off the front page of the paper. Anyhow: glad Amanda and Raffaele can live out their lives in peace from now on. Just a real pity that Guede prick had his sentence reduced. He ought to have had it increased considering all the horror he's caused.

enfant terrible

Absolutely delighted she was acquitted.

Followed the case closely from the start and it was a disgrace she and her boyfriend were ever convicted.

A classic case of trial by media, along with corruption.

Now hopefully the prosecutor Mignini can finally be charged for abuse of office again and Patrizia Stefanoni should be ashamed of herself.

bb1234567

Poor couple. Sad they had spend so many years in jail wasting away their youth when they should have been out enjoying themselves in college ,travelling the world and starting their careers.

Lingua Franca

I'm so glad to hear this. She's guilty of nothing more than being a complete moron, and he of nothing.

I really hope Meredith's family find some closure with this. I don't think they will, though. It's a shame that Rudy Guede is getting off so lightly.

Amazingfun

qt3.14 wrote: »

Can this be appealed again or anything or is it really over for her?
Italian court cases seem never ending with all the different places it can be taken.

Sorry I missed this comment earlier. The answer is yes it's really over. They are free and will no longer be tried anywhere for this crime.

Amazingfun

Dozen Wicked Words wrote: »

What's going on with the former boyfriend, is he to be retried or is that overturned too?

Yes he has been exonerated as well

Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito CLEARED of murdering Meredith Kercher:

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3014378/Amanda-Knox-Raffaele-Sollecito-CLEARED-murdering-Meredith-Kercher.html#ixzz3Vdd5asFb
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

lazza14

Murdering bítch cúnt gets away with it, well she has to live with what she did for the rest of her life- I wonder can she sleep at night - I´m sure a sociopathic bítch like her can ..

Banned

lazza14

bb1234567 wrote: »

Poor couple. Sad they had spend so many years in jail wasting away their youth when they should have been out enjoying themselves in college ,travelling the world and starting their careers.

Yeah shame, they should have gotten some money as well as a kickstart,
and as a reward for murder.

Eugene Norman

lazza14 wrote: »

Murdering bítch cúnt gets away with it, well she has to live with what she did for the rest of her life- I wonder can she sleep at night - I´m sure a sociopathic bítch like her can ..

Anybody who reviewing the evidence thinks Knox guilty is basically a relic of witch hunters.

bb1234567

lazza14 wrote: »

Yeah shame, they should have gotten some money as well as a kickstart,
and as a reward for murder.

And what makes you think they are guilty of murder? I hate how people on online forums think they know better than the courts verdict. Your opinion of who's guilty or innocent is based completely off of bias and media representation, you don't know all the facts of the case, the courts, the government, and the police forces do.

Dontfadeaway

Guilty or not. She comes across as insincere. Reminds me of Amy from Gone Girl.

enfant terrible

Dontfadeaway wrote: »

Guilty or not. She comes across as insincere. Reminds me of Amy from Gone Girl.

Yes that was the reason the prosecutor decided she was guilty and tried to make the evidence fit that premise.

Amazingfun

lazza14 wrote: »

Murdering bítch cúnt gets away with it, well she has to live with what she did for the rest of her life- I wonder can she sleep at night - I´m sure a sociopathic bítch like her can ..

:pac:

lazza14

bb1234567 wrote: »

And what makes you think they are guilty of murder? I hate how people on online forums think they know better than the courts verdict. Your opinion of who's guilty or innocent is based completely off of bias and media representation, you don't know all the facts of the case, the courts, the government, and the police forces do.

Well falsely accusing a bar owner and ruining his life as a result - strikes me as someone so desperate to get away with it they will accuse anybody.

A for real innocent person would protest their innocence they would never just accuse someone who is - why the f*ck would they make up a lie and make themselves look even more guilty unless they really were and had nothing to lose ?

A Primal Nut

Dontfadeaway wrote: »

Guilty or not. She comes across as insincere. Reminds me of Amy from Gone Girl.

Congratulations. You've been convinced of that by the media. You said she "comes across as insincere", not that she is insincere based on facts and evidence. It's amazing how much the media can manipulate people's thoughts.

She and Raffaele have done the best they can given their circumstances and what they went through.

lazza14 wrote: »

Well falsely accusing a bar owner and ruining his life as a result - strikes me as someone so desperate to get away with it they will accuse anybody.

A for real innocent person would protest their innocence they would never just accuse someone who is - why the f*ck would they make up a lie and make themselves look even more guilty unless they really were and had nothing to lose ?

She was sleep deprived. The investigators, desperate for a suspect, were desperate to build evidence against Lumumba and no doubt if he didn't have an alibi he could have been the one who was wrongly convicted.

Most vulnerable 19 year olds in the same situation would have done the same thing. Excerpt from a book on the murder:

After days of questioning, she was brought in at night for questioning (Why at night? One has to ask.). She had already been questioned for several days and now it went on all night, without breaks for water, food, even the bathroom.

So, after a total of 50 hours of interrogation over many days, the young sleep-deprived foreigner was hit over the head and shouted at by innumerable officers (36 signed her arrest warrant.). In a language she barely spoke, she named her boss, Patrick Lumbumba, in a bizarre statement in which she "confusedly" remembered hearing him kill her roommate Meredith while she (Amanda) stayed in the kitchen.

But it was the police who brought up his name repeatedly, who kept badgering her. He was their target that night.

His name had come up because he had dialed her cell on the night of the murder, telling her not to come to work. She responded, "Okay, see you, later, good night," which the police misinterpreted as an assignation. "Let's meet in the square and then go kill my roommate. " In fact, Amanda never left her boyfriend's flat that night and Patrick never left his bar (as he was able to prove). Neither were at the "house of horrors" when Amanda's British roommate, Meredith Kercher, was stabbed to death.

As an Italian journalist for Oggi said: "Amanda named Lumumba during an interrogation that lasted hours and hours. She was worked over by dozens of investigators, one of which also slapped her (as Prosecutor Guiliano Mignini has admitted in court). Amanda did not know Italian and the translator was a medium, who took charge and stimulated and interpreted the confused statements of the girl. All without the presence of the lawyer. The Supreme Court ruled that those records cannot be used.

But more than that: the responsibility for the arrest of Lumumba and his stay in prison for several days is also the investigators themselves. Instead of doing the necessary checks, they arrested him on the basis of one quote from the girl, without any other proof or evidence."

Amanda did take back this statement, within hours of having written it, but by then it was too late. Patrick was freed within a few weeks when police discovered that another black man, Rudy Guede, had left a bloody handprint at the murder site.

If you think she's guilty, ok at least you have a reason for not liking her. But the worst is people who say "Well she not might be guilty but she is still sociopatic, insincere, a liar, etc". Think of any 19-year old girl you know and imagining her going through the above, all in a foreign country where she doesn't even speak the language. And then the media are judging you on top of that. Same goes for Raffaele. These aren't public relations experts; they were normal teenagers and of course they will make mistakes. But most of those mistakes were made while she was being tortured (most definitions of torture would include sleep or food deprivation; they are used around the world by intelligence agencies to extract confessions and other false statements from people).

Dontfadeaway

A Primal Nut wrote: »

Congratulations. You've been convinced of that by the media. You said she "comes across as insincere", not that she is insincere based on facts and evidence. It's amazing how much the media can manipulate people's thoughts.

She and Raffaele have done the best they can given their circumstances and what they went through.



It's a while since I studied the case but if I remember correctly the investigators wrote a statement for her in Italian accusing the barman. She had no translator and didn't understand what she was signing so she did it anyway. She should have waited until she had a lawyer and a translator but in fairness she was very young and she does claim she was sleep deprived during those questioning periods.

Most vulnerable 19 year olds in the same situation would have went along with the police.

The investigators, desperate for a suspect, were desperate to build evidence against Lumumba and no doubt if he didn't have an alibi he could have been the one who was wrongly convicted.

It's just a general opinion of her. The latest being ...

lazza14

A Primal Nut wrote: »

Congratulations. You've been convinced of that by the media. You said she "comes across as insincere", not that she is insincere based on facts and evidence. It's amazing how much the media can manipulate people's thoughts.

She and Raffaele have done the best they can given their circumstances and what they went through.



She was sleep deprived. The investigators, desperate for a suspect, were desperate to build evidence against Lumumba and no doubt if he didn't have an alibi he could have been the one who was wrongly convicted.

Most vulnerable 19 year olds in the same situation would have done the same thing. Excerpt from a book on the murder:



If you think she's guilty, ok at least you have a reason for not liking her. But the worst is people who say "Well she not might be guilty but she is still sociopatic, insincere, a liar, etc". Think of any 19-year old girl you know and imagining her going through the above, all in a foreign country where she doesn't even speak the language. And then the media are judging you on top of that. Same goes for Raffaele. These aren't public relations experts; they were normal teenagers and of course they will make mistakes. But most of those mistakes were made while she was being tortured (most definitions of torture would include sleep or food deprivation; they are used around the world by intelligence agencies to extract confessions and other false statements from people).

Oh yeah, the book written by her and sponsored by Fox News yeah ??

F*ck off!!

A Primal Nut

Same way anyone released after being wrongly convicted reacts. With joy. Fair play to her.

If she think she is guilty fine thats another argument. But think of the possibility that she is innocent, that she went through this terrible experience, four years in prison and so on; she deserves nothing but sympathy. The fact you don't like certain aspects of her behavior is irrelevant compared to the magnitude of what she went through.

lazza14

Dontfadeaway wrote: »

It's just a general opinion of her. The latest being ...

Can tell she's acting ... when she talks about Meredith it's so obvious its acting - and bad acting at that.

her eyes keep darting around, classic signs of a liar.

Anyway, she's gotten away with it, I hope she's a religious person and fears the day she dies for the rest of her life.

A Primal Nut

What's the alleged motive for Amanda and Raffaeles involvement these days? I believe the prosecution dropped the ludicrous sex game gone wrong theory a few years back.

WinnyThePoo

lazza14 wrote: »

Can tell she's acting ... when she talks about Meredith it's so obvious its acting - and bad acting at that.

her eyes keep darting around, classic signs of a liar.

Anyway, she's gotten away with it, I hope she's a religious person and fears the day she dies for the rest of her life.

ha acting . Get over it.

Wompa1

Personally, I think she should not have been convicted. However, there's something up. She may have been involved in some degree because her actions and the litany of lies are not the act of an innocent person. Just my opinion

A Primal Nut

lazza14 wrote: »

Can tell she's acting ... when she talks about Meredith it's so obvious its acting - and bad acting at that.

her eyes keep darting around, classic signs of a liar.

It's like people have decided they don't like her and in the absence of hard facts they have to come up with crap like this in order to justify it. Even for qualified body language experts it is not reliable to tell if someone is lying by watching them.

"She seems insincere"
"I don't like the way she moves her eyes"
"Something about her I don't like"

These are typical statements about someone who has been tried in the court of public opinion rather than hard facts. The same things were said about Christopher Jeffries until it was later realised he was an eccentric old man caught up in an awful situation.

I think Amanda gets it worse because she's a woman so people love pointing out she's clearly manipulative and so on.

The public perception of people suddenly thrown into the public eye against their wishes is usually both negative and incorrect. Mainly because these people are not public relations experts.

enfant terrible

Wompa1 wrote: »

Personally, I think she should not have been convicted. However, there's something up. She may have been involved in some degree because her actions and the litany of lies are not the act of an innocent person. Just my opinion

Thankfully evidence is needed, not your gut feeling.

A Primal Nut

lazza14 wrote: »

Oh yeah, the book written by her and sponsored by Fox News yeah ??

F*ck off!!

Even the prosecution admitted she was hit and i dont believe they denied the other accusations. And if they were being fair why they didn't they allow her have a lawyer present?

The statements weren't allowed in court for these reasons.

Cianmcliam

A Primal Nut wrote: »

The prosecution admitted she was hit.

No, Knox was charged with making this up and her parents were charged for repeating it to the British press.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2013/02/amanda-knoxs-slander-trial-moved-to-florence/
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/amanda-knoxs-parents-to-go-on-trial-in-perugia/