Weeds in newley sown lawn

fiestaman

Hi, i sowed this lawn the last weekend of august,now i have this lettuce type stuff. Should this be something to be concerned about, should i treat it now or will it be ok.

looksee

Bit hard to tell from the pic, but it appears to be fat hen. You will always get weeds coming up with new grass, a couple of mowings should sort that crop. You can get weedkillers that kill broadleaf weeds and not grass, but i would not go near it yet.

OilBeefHooked2

fiestaman wrote: »

Hi, i sowed this lawn the last weekend of august,now i have this lettuce type stuff. Should this be something to be concerned about, should i treat it now or will it be ok.

Were those pictures taken recently?, because that's very poor growth for 4 weeks, did you not use any fertiliser when sowing?, if not then you should do straight away,

redser7

I wouldn't use fertiliser on newly sown grass. And it wouldn't help germination.
You could give that a cut on a high setting in 2 or 3 weeks time. Then try sowing some more seed before the cold kicks in. Deal with the weeds in the spring time. First by mowing, then with a feed and weed if you have to. You might have to resow some patches again in the spring if its not thick enough.

fiestaman

Pics taken thisevening. I thought it should be thicker alright with the weather were having. It was fertilized the day after it was sowed, i had a contractor sow it with a machine that rolls sows and rolls again and then they put out the fertilizer with a spreader. Machine leaves lines and the grass is up in lines if you look down along it.

The Garden Shop

You shouldn't fertilise a newly sown lawn for the first year - as it is too strong for the young seedlings

Also, don't fertilise in autumn - as it encourages new growth into winter which is susceptible to frost damage.

These weeds appeared to have blown in from the surrounding farm land, and there is only one way to solve the problem - regular mowing.
The more you mow the better the grass will perform.

Next summer if the weeds are still bad then apply a lawn weed killer - Dicophar or Hytrol

But the growth is very poor. Was there a dry period at / after the time of sowing - grass really benefits from rain after being sown.

redser7

The Garden Shop wrote: »

You shouldn't fertilise a newly sown lawn for the first year - as it is too strong for the young seedlings

Also, don't fertilise in autumn - as it encourages new growth into winter which is susceptible to frost damage.

These weeds appeared to have blown in from the surrounding farm land, and there is only one way to solve the problem - regular mowing.
The more you mow the better the grass will perform.

Next summer if the weeds are still bad then apply a lawn weed killer - Dicophar or Hytrol

But the growth is very poor. Was there a dry period at / after the time of sowing - grass really benefits from rain after being sown.

I'd just mention about fertilising in autumn. Fine, don't do it with new grass, but an autumn lawn feed will do a lawn a great deal of good. Low in nitrogen and high in phosphorous it will encourAge good root growth to toughen the plants to deal with the harsh weather and take off like a rocket in spring. Aldi have it in at the moment if you are quick.

GreeBo

The Garden Shop wrote: »

You shouldn't fertilise a newly sown lawn for the first year - as it is too strong for the young seedlings

Also, don't fertilise in autumn - as it encourages new growth into winter which is susceptible to frost damage.

These weeds appeared to have blown in from the surrounding farm land, and there is only one way to solve the problem - regular mowing.
The more you mow the better the grass will perform.

Next summer if the weeds are still bad then apply a lawn weed killer - Dicophar or Hytrol

But the growth is very poor. Was there a dry period at / after the time of sowing - grass really benefits from rain after being sown.

it does look like a lot of seeds either didnt germinate or dies off.
OP were you watering at all? Once they germinate they need to be watered or they will just die off.

fiestaman

Well it looks like i should have been watering it and i didnt because i was told to leave it and it would look after itself. Sure it was dry for the first ten days after sowing and then a little rain and then fine since until today. Am i in trouble. The topsoil was bought in so it must have had the weed in it.

GreeBo

fiestaman wrote: »

Well it looks like i should have been watering it and i didnt because i was told to leave it and it would look after itself. Sure it was dry for the first ten days after sowing and then a little rain and then fine since until today. Am i in trouble. The topsoil was bought in so it must have had the weed in it.

seed can sit "forever" when its dry, but once it gets wet it will start to germinate. If it dries out at this stage it dies because it doenst have roots yet so has no source of water.

With the weather we have been having the last month it would have needed daily water, twice a day to try to keep it all alive.
You can cover it with something to retain moisture (hay, cut grass, weed barrier, plastic) in the beginning to stop it drying out, but not very practical with the size that you have sown; so watering is your best bet.

looksee

Unless you buy tons of sterilised top soil (not a practical proposition) that kind of weed is a fact of life, even if it were sterilised the seeds would blow in at this time of year, you can't win!

GreeBo

looksee wrote: »

Unless you buy tons of sterilised top soil (not a practical proposition) that kind of weed is a fact of life, even if it were sterilised the seeds would blow in at this time of year, you can't win!

yep, as soon as the grass starts to get healthy and grow it will strangle out the weeds. A good feed & weed in spring and maybe an autumn feed in a few weeks will see you right.
(especially if this rain keeps up!)

fiestaman

GreeBo wrote: »

seed can sit "forever" when its dry, but once it gets wet it will start to germinate. If it dries out at this stage it dies because it doenst have roots yet so has no source of water.

With the weather we have been having the last month it would have needed daily water, twice a day to try to keep it all alive.
You can cover it with something to retain moisture (hay, cut grass, weed barrier, plastic) in the beginning to stop it drying out, but not very practical with the size that you have sown; so watering is your best bet.

Ok so good chance new grass could come after this rain. Il keep an eye on it so.

redser7

No, I think you'll need to reseed. He was saying that you probably got germination but then it would have dried and died. The seed does need a little pampering if their is no rain. Usually a quick sprinkle in the evening will do.

fiestaman

redser7 wrote: »

No, I think you'll need to reseed. He was saying that you probably got germination but then it would have dried and died. The seed does need a little pampering if their is no rain. Usually a quick sprinkle in the evening will do.

Just scatter seed by hand?

GreeBo

fiestaman wrote: »

Just scatter seed by hand?

yeah lash some out by hand onto the barren areas and give it a bit of a rake in and then a water. You will disturb some of the existing seedlings but in reality it wont matter as you are replacing them and they will find their way back anyway.

Now is an ok time to sow as its still relatively warm and we are getting some of the wet stuff. april would be better, but then you are waiting 6 months so....

OilBeefHooked2

OP, while the advice in this thread is well meaning some of the replys are nonsense while others are simply incorrect, take them all with a pinch of salt and contact your original contractor, I'd be fairly certain he'd be only too happy to swing by your house and discuss any concerns you may have and he'll advise on how to proceed correctly.

Redser and The Garden Shop are both incorrect in saying you should not fertilise at the same time as sowing, it's recommended and has been standard practice in the industry for as long as I can remenber (23 years+) and the benefits are plain to see, also I don't think it's changed in the last few days. I can only assume they are referring to domestic "weed and feed" products?, in which case they may be correct.

Greebo's suggestion of drought is nonsense, there is no evidence of drought in your two photos and that also concurs with the weather conditions in Ireland since the start of August which have been favourable to sowing new lawns.
One final point on watering newly seeded lawns, while you may water newly sown lawns, it's neither nesscesary or adviseable in this country, there is almost always enough moisture in the soil to sustain seeds and new lawns, also you get a better and deeper root system if you don't water.

Newly seeded lawns take time to establish, so be patience and your original contractor is in the best position to advise on what needs to be done if anything, so you shpuld contact him.

fiestaman

david-k wrote: »

OP, while the advice in this thread is well meaning some of the replys are nonsense while others are simply incorrect, take them all with a pinch of salt and contact your original contractor, I'd be fairly certain he'd be only too happy to swing by your house and discuss any concerns you may have and he'll advise on how to proceed correctly.

Redser and The Garden Shop are both incorrect in saying you should not fertilise at the same time as sowing, it's recommended and has been standard practice in the industry for as long as I can remenber (23 years+) and the benefits are plain to see, also I don't think it's changed in the last few days. I can only assume they are referring to domestic "weed and feed" products?, in which case they may be correct.

Greebo's suggestion of drought is nonsense, there is no evidence of drought in your two photos and that also concurs with the weather conditions in Ireland since the start of August which have been favourable to sowing new lawns.
One final point on watering newly seeded lawns, while you may water newly sown lawns, it's neither nesscesary or adviseable in this country, there is almost always enough moisture in the soil to sustain seeds and new lawns, also you get a better and deeper root system if you don't water.

Newly seeded lawns take time to establish, so be patience and your original contractor is in the best position to advise on what needs to be done if anything, so you shpuld contact him.

Thank you, he seemed to know what he was doing, there in business for 15yrs, he did say it would come up like barley after been sown like in rows from the machine he used but said it would nit together. I think i was been impacient. Its flying now after the rain the last few days.

GreeBo

david-k wrote: »

Greebo's suggestion of drought is nonsense, there is no evidence of drought in your two photos and that also concurs with the weather conditions in Ireland since the start of August which have been favourable to sowing new lawns.

What reference to "drought" are you referring to?
Do you deny that seeds, once germinated, will die if they dry out?

The ground has been baked hard for most of the summer. At the time of sowing we didnt have constant rain and clearly a lot of seeds either didnt germinate or died post germination.

Why do you think the seedlings havent appeared in these areas, lack of fertiliser?!

redser7

Indeed, I was talking about any fertilisers I've ever used. They would always say not to be used on newly seeded areas or young lawns. After looking it up I see a 'starter' fertiliser is recommended, so thanks for that.
I can't agree with you on watering though. There were periods during the summer and indeed lately where I've seen dry cracked earth. If it doesnt rain you should give them a light sprinkle, preferably in the evening.

OilBeefHooked2

redser7 wrote: »

Indeed, I was talking about any fertilisers I've ever used. They would always say not to be used on newly seeded areas or young lawns. After looking it up I see a 'starter' fertiliser is recommended, so thanks for that.
I can't agree with you on watering though. There were periods during the summer and indeed lately where I've seen dry cracked earth. If it doesnt rain you should give them a light sprinkle, preferably in the evening.

I agree that if the ground has turn to dust then watering is necessary, but in an ideal world you wouldn't sow a lawn when that is possible, hence why spring and autumn are recommened as the best times to sow seed, and this year since the start/middle of August conditions have been close to ideal. (As aside if you must water then give the groud a good soaking, a light sprinkle can do more harm than good).
As a general rule in Ireland, watering newly sown lawns is unnecessary and can have a detrimental effect on the developement of the root system, i.e. keeping them shallower than they ordinarily would be, so it's best practice to not water unless absolutely necessary (extremely rare).

GreeBo

david-k wrote: »

I agree that if the ground has turn to dust then watering is necessary, but in an ideal world you wouldn't sow a lawn when that is possible, hence why spring and autumn are recommened as the best times to sow seed, and this year since the start/middle of August conditions have been close to ideal. (As aside if you must water then give the groud a good soaking, a light sprinkle can do more harm than good).
As a general rule in Ireland, watering newly sown lawns is unnecessary and can have a detrimental effect on the developement of the root system, i.e. keeping them shallower than they ordinarily would be, so it's best practice to not water unless absolutely necessary (extremely rare).

Thats true for a new lawn, you want the roots to grow down to get a nice dense sward, but none of that is going to happen if the seeds die soon after germination.

Newly sown seeds, especially in fresh, dry top soil need to be kept damp so they dont die. If it doesnt rain you need to water them, if we get weather up into the 20s like we had in the last 6 weeks then you might need to dampen them twice a day or more.

Once they have germinated and put out some root you can worry about overwatering and shallow roots.

OilBeefHooked2

GreeBo wrote: »

Thats true for a new lawn, you want the roots to grow down to get a nice dense sward, but none of that is going to happen if the seeds die soon after germination.

Newly sown seeds, especially in fresh, dry top soil need to be kept damp so they dont die. If it doesnt rain you need to water them, if we get weather up into the 20s like we had in the last 6 weeks then you might need to dampen them twice a day or more.

Once they have germinated and put out some root you can worry about overwatering and shallow roots.

I'm sorry Greebo, but the above shows a basic lack of understanding of soils in Ireland and horticulture in general and sorta aludes to the some silly notion that grasses are fragile and delicate plants, there's a reason they are the most successful of all plants and *hint hint* it's not because humans have been watering them.

redser7

david-k wrote: »

I agree that if the ground has turn to dust then watering is necessary, but in an ideal world you wouldn't sow a lawn when that is possible, hence why spring and autumn are recommened as the best times to sow seed, and this year since the start/middle of August conditions have been close to ideal. (As aside if you must water then give the groud a good soaking, a light sprinkle can do more harm than good).
As a general rule in Ireland, watering newly sown lawns is unnecessary and can have a detrimental effect on the developement of the root system, i.e. keeping them shallower than they ordinarily would be, so it's best practice to not water unless absolutely necessary (extremely rare).

No, a good soaking would disturb the seed and possibly lead it to rot. Its one of the things people are frequently advised not to do. in the absence of rain a daily light spraying is what is what's needed.
Once the grass is established then you can worry about root development and water deeply in times of severe drought.

redser7

david-k wrote: »

I'm sorry Greebo, but the above shows a basic lack of understanding of soils in Ireland and horticulture in general and sorta aludes to the some silly notion that grasses are fragile and delicate plants, there's a reason they are the most successful of all plants and *hint hint* it's not because humans have been watering them.

That's bordering on insulting, definately sarcastic. By all means offer your opinion and disagree but don't put people down.

GreeBo

redser7 wrote: »

No, a good soaking would disturb the seed and possibly lead it to rot. Its one of the things people are frequently advised not to do. in the absence of rain a daily light spraying is what is what's needed.
Once the grass is established then you can worry about root development and water deeply in times of severe drought.

Exactly. The way you treat seeds versus a growing lawn are completely different.
Worrying about damaging root development when your seeds are already dead is missing the wood for the trees.

JBTM

I read this as 'My new son in law smokes weed'

GreeBo

david-k wrote: »

I'm sorry Greebo, but the above shows a basic lack of understanding of soils in Ireland and horticulture in general and sorta aludes to the some silly notion that grasses are fragile and delicate plants, there's a reason they are the most successful of all plants and *hint hint* it's not because humans have been watering them.

Please explain what I am misunderstanding?
Where did I say grass was fragile or delicate?
*Germinated seeds* are fragile, if they dry out they will die. Are you still refuting this fact?
Why would you pay for seed to be slit sown and then just ignore it an let a lot of it die?

"Grass" will grow anywhere naturally.
The OP doesnt want "grass", they want a lawn. There is a difference.

Throwing out some seed and then abandoning it to whatever happens will certainly give you grass. Ugly, patchy grass, exactly what the OP has and you are suggesting. Why would you suggest fertilizer if human intervention is not required for a lawn?
If you want a lawn you look after it after you seed it.

OilBeefHooked2

redser7 wrote: »

No, a good soaking would disturb the seed and possibly lead it to rot. Its one of the things people are frequently advised not to do. in the absence of rain a daily light spraying is what is what's needed.
Once the grass is established then you can worry about root development and water deeply in times of severe drought.

Grass seeds don't need water, seedlings do and if you have to water (which I advocate you don't) then one should do it properly, what I mean by a good soak and what you understand it to be could very well be two different things.
When I say a good soak I don't mean use a heavy spray and water it quickly and disturd the surface of the soil, I mean use a light mist like spray over a longer period of time and make sure it seeps down into the soil.
We're arguing over a mute point anyway, you shouldn't be watering new lawns in Ireland, full stop:pac::p.

redser7 wrote: »

That's bordering on insulting, definately sarcastic. By all means offer your opinion and disagree but don't put people down.

If you got the offensive and abusive PM I got earlier the tone of my post above would definately become clearer.

GreeBo

david-k wrote: »

Grass seeds don't need water, seedlings do and if you have to water (which I advocate you don't) then one should do it properly, what I mean by a good soak and what you understand it to be could very well be two different things.
When I say a good soak I don't mean use a heavy spray and water it quickly and disturd the surface of the soil, I mean use a light mist like spray over a longer period of time and make sure it seeps down into the soil.
We're arguing over a mute point anyway, you shouldn't be watering new lawns in Ireland, full stop:pac::p.

1) seeds need water if you want them to germinate. You are clearly trolling now based on that comment.
2) A good soak of the ground is of no use if we get 20+ degree weather and no rain. The portion of ground the seeds are in contact with with be bone dry after 1 day, just long enough for the seeds to germinate and then die without manual intervention.
3) Its not a "mute" (sic) point, newly sown grass seed needs water to stay alive in any country if there isnt sufficient natural water/precipitation.

OilBeefHooked2

GreeBo wrote: »

1) seeds need water if you want them to germinate. You are clearly trolling now based on that comment.
2) A good soak of the ground is of no use if we get 20+ degree weather and no rain. The portion of ground the seeds are in contact with with be bone dry after 1 day, just long enough for the seeds to germinate and then die without manual intervention.
3) Its not a "mute" (sic) point, newly sown grass seed needs water to stay alive in any country if there isnt sufficient natural water/precipitation.

Who's throlling who, you're jumping all over my posts with nonsense, how am I supposed to respond to that?, frankly you're starting to sound like a stalker.