F1 2013 Round 14 - Korean Grand Prix

Torqay · 10-10-2013 4:50pm

Grim. wrote: »

next year is looking pretty awesome for Lmp1 anyway and the fact that they will have up to 1100bhp when hybrid/flybrid kicks in awww yeaaaaa , cant wait!

Porsche's done that in the 70s already... without any "hybrid/flybrid" gimmicks! The mightiest sports car of all times (in my books at least), so good that the FIA eventually chose to outlaw it.

Grim. · 10-10-2013 5:08pm

im well aware of the 917k and its awesomeness (being my favorite sportscar ever!) my point about 1100hp is its a rare thing in this day and age

anyway 917/30 is also a thing of beauty at 1580hp

Torqay · 10-10-2013 5:18pm

The CanAm Spyder was not so much of a beauty... just one very mean machine.

10-10-2013 6:15pm

ScumLord wrote: »

He's had some genius passes this year, he just get's it done when he needs to and then puts in perfect laps. Was it two or three races ago Hamilton almost had him in the first corner but Vettel fought back and regained the lead and stormed off for the victory. I think that one move showed just how great he is.

Exactly, he's always got a few seconds in his pocket that he can use to make the pass. Different when someone is only slightly faster and has to plan several corners in advance to get a pass done.

christy c · 10-10-2013 7:49pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Exactly, he's always got a few seconds in his pocket that he can use to make the pass. Different when someone is only slightly faster and has to plan several corners in advance to get a pass done.

If he always had a few seconds in his pocket he would have won every race, early this year and last year he had a few good scraps and showed his true talent

10-10-2013 11:47pm

christy c wrote: »

If he always had a few seconds in his pocket he would have won every race, early this year and last year he had a few good scraps and showed his true talent

When he makes the overtakes he's generally got a lot more pace than who he's overtaking, hence the gap he can always open up. Let's look at the races he hasn't won this year:
Australia - beaten on strategy
China - 4th, steaming up on Hamilton because strategy put him down the field. Locked a wheel and cost himself 3rd.
Spain - No pace in the car
Monaco - 2nd, no chance to pass
Britain - Retired
Hungary - Poor pace in the car

Not much in the way of scraps there. Now let's look at when he's won:
Malaysia - Started on pole
Bahrain - Started 2nd. Rosberg started on pole and finished 9th.
Canada - Started on pole
Germany - Started 2nd. Hamilton started on pole and finished 9th.
Belgium - Started 2nd. Hamilton started on pole and finished 3rd with little pace.
Italy - Started on pole.
Singapore - Started on pole
Korea - Started on pole.

Notice a pattern in his wins?

EDIT: Don't forget the tyre changes. His results since then have an uncanny resemblance to his results in 2011.

christy c · 11-10-2013 7:55am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

When he makes the overtakes he's generally got a lot more pace than who he's overtaking

So it has changed from "he's got a few seconds to spare"? Who doesn't have more pace than who he's overtaking? If they didn't have more pace they wouldn't be able to overtake

Also your analysis of his wins is pretty much useless here except to prove the point that when his car suits a track he can maximize it and put it on pole or close enough.

Is the point you're trying to make that you don't like him?

11-10-2013 11:10am

christy c wrote: »

So it has changed from "he's got a few seconds to spare"? Who doesn't have more pace than who he's overtaking? If they didn't have more pace they wouldn't be able to overtake

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Belgian_Grand_Prix
When does Vettel pass someone and not instantly pull away with ease?

Also your analysis of his wins is pretty much useless here except to prove the point that when his car suits a track he can maximize it and put it on pole or close enough.

It shows that there's little evidence of him outperforming a car at all.

Is the point you're trying to make that you don't like him?

You may as well play the race card, it would make as much sense.:rolleyes:

christy c · 11-10-2013 12:59pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Belgian_Grand_Prix
When does Vettel pass someone and not instantly pull away with ease?

It shows that there's little evidence of him outperforming a car at all.

You may as well play the race card, it would make as much sense.:rolleyes:

Point 1- I don't know, I haven't analysed every one of his overtakes, have you?

Point 2- it doesn't prove anything- how does it show that by putting it on pole and winning that he hasn't out performed the car? Maybe he outperformed the car in his qualifying lap and also by being able to pull away from the field?

Torqay · 11-10-2013 1:22pm

I think, Vettel has proven his capabilities beyond doubt when he won the championship last year in Brazil, flying through the pack. Even Webber (who did practically everything he could to deny Vettel's third title) had to scknowledge that Vettel's stunning performance was indeed "very, very special" and had put him in a "a club on his own".

11-10-2013 5:08pm

christy c wrote: »

Point 1- I don't know, I haven't analysed every one of his overtakes, have you?

I can't think of any off the top of my head that didn't look like someone playing a video game with a car in a different class to anyone else.

Point 2- it doesn't prove anything- how does it show that by putting it on pole and winning that he hasn't out performed the car? Maybe he outperformed the car in his qualifying lap and also by being able to pull away from the field?

It shows that the "ultimate" pace of the car is consistent through each weekend. It's not like he's dragging a car through the field when it's not good enough.

ScumLord · 11-10-2013 5:22pm

Deleted User wrote: »

When does Vettel pass someone and not instantly pull away with ease?

That's all down to where he places his car and where he forces the other driver to go. It's part of overtaking that you do your best to not only take the best line but force the other guy to take the worst line possible, then you don't need ultimate speed to overtake. Vettel did that perfectly with his overtake on Hamilton.

He's able to do that level of thinking on top of driving a car that's borderline impossible to drive and is constantly trying to make you crash.

Myrddin · 11-10-2013 5:24pm

It's also down to the team usually being absolutely spot on re strategy. I find when Vettel is in a position where he has to overtake, he's usually on much fresher tyres & in a generally stronger position. That's not taking away from his driving ability, he's the real deal I've said that a few times now, but on the whole, the team are stupidly good at what they do

ScumLord · 11-10-2013 5:29pm

It's just kind of annoying to see another German in control so quick after Schumacher. I wonder could anyone convince Vettel to not bother qualifying for the rest of the season and show us what he's really made of.

Torqay · 11-10-2013 5:51pm

I like the GP2 scoring system very much, something F1 should adopt.

Qualifying and a sprint race on Saturday (points for the first 6, bonus points for the pole-sitter), top ten start in reverse order in Sunday's main event, bonus points for the fastest lap).

ScumLord · 11-10-2013 5:59pm

Torqay wrote: »

I like the GP2 scoring system very much, something F1 should adopt.

Qualifying and a sprint race on Saturday (points for the first 6, bonus points for the pole-sitter), top ten start in reverse order in Sunday's main event, bonus points for the fastest lap).

The trouble is with Vettel's current performance he'd be getting a lot more points and would be even harder to catch, he typically gets pole and fastest lap.

I wonder about the point difference between 1st and 2nd, I know it encourages people to go for the win but it also allows for drivers to build up an insurmountable lead. These guys don't really need the encouragement their obscene pay packets should cover that.

11-10-2013 6:11pm

ScumLord wrote: »

That's all down to where he places his car and where he forces the other driver to go. It's part of overtaking that you do your best to not only take the best line but force the other guy to take the worst line possible, then you don't need ultimate speed to overtake. Vettel did that perfectly with his overtake on Hamilton.

He's able to do that level of thinking on top of driving a car that's borderline impossible to drive and is constantly trying to make you crash.

Once he's more than a second ahead he has no effect on where a driver behind can place his car and when he's two seconds ahead (i.e., after about a lap) he has no effect on the car behind. Other than the first lap in Spa how did he have any effect on Hamilton's pace? It was his and his car's ultimate pace that let him pump in laps when needed and cruise when not needed.

The way the tyres are only seem to suit comfortable overtaking, either because of fresh tyres or DRS or KERS. Look at Hamilton's passing when the Bridgestones were around, diving up the inside, right on the edge. He was making those passes when he had only a small car advantage, hence why he got so much praise. I thought it was a bit over the top but I prefer that kind of passing to when one car looks 10% lighter than any other car.

F1 2013 Round 14 - Korean Grand Prix

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