Sinn Fein more popular than FF , Lab drop to 6%

COYW

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

I wonder who all these new Sinn Fein voters actually are? Or maybe I just live in a bubble.

Have to agree with you. I don't know any of these people. I am out and about meeting all sorts of people and the vast majority of people swear that they would never vote for SF. SF always tend to poll well and then under-perform when election time comes.

MMG was cruising to victory in many online and media polls for the Presidential vote and ended up finishing third with less than half the votes of the Fianna Fail independent candidate who finished second.

FTA69 wrote: »

Fianna Fáil and Sinn Féin in coalition is a possibility in my eyes.

We rarely agree on political issues, FTA69 but I think we can all see this love affair evolving. SF is FF lite. The funny thing is that SF will end up just like Labour in this poll, if they go into government with FF or FG.

Idbatterim

Labour, the party of waste and wasters! What I dont get is who the hell is saying that they would vote for Fianna Fail?! the only ones I can think of as a demographic is OAP's, maybe some from the PS? I reckon FG will see an increase in support closer to the election if they make it that far... The problem is I think a large part of the Irish electorate are still stupid enough to think there is an easy way out, sort of like "Ohhhh their making cuts, that party is bad, Ill punish them in the opinion poll or election, come the next election, they vote in the alternative, they have to do the same thing and again theyll punish them. We do get what we deserve in my opinion. I think John Drennan had an article in the Indo the other day and he was saying if FF were in government now, they would be following pretty much the exact same path and its true...

JOHN DRENNAN – 22 SEPTEMBER 2013

The calm before the storm of Budget 2014
The finance minister is caught between the demands of austerity and expectation, writes John Drennan

Sinn Fein may be the Scientologists of Irish politics but at last week's Fine Gael think-in it was as though Fine Gael had robbed their clothes as effectively as Bertie in the good old days.

Not since Enda Kenny's first glorious Ard Fheis has such a display of unity been paraded under the approving eyes of the 'Dear Leader'.

The air of respectable Mormon homogeneity was undoubtedly enhanced by the absence of the Reform Alliance and its aristocrat Whig allies such as the Deasys who remain, nominally, within the fold but are really Wild Geese in exile.

In the wake of the plucking of the bad political teeth, and as the new atmosphere of Prussian discipline allowed the Cabinet to feast upon power without challenge, last week represented the high tide of 'Dear Leader' Enda Kenny's position in the Irish power-game.

Last week, the deserted Panopticon that is Killenard represented the Shangri La of not-so-Cute Old Phil, Enda and the rest of the Pringle-jumper-loving Fine Gael golfing ministers.

Amid the marble, the bog oak, the enormous rooms of that gated paradise where all is neat and tidy and everyone knows their place without needing to have manners put on them, even Fine Gael rattled around like Protestant spinsters in the Big House after 1922, such is the scale of the place.

The TDs were happy, though, within the vast museum to FF-inspired Celtic Tiger excess, for possession is everything and FG is the original lost tribe of Irish politics which has finally inherited all that FF once owned. And like all lost tribes, now that they have taken possession, they will not be ejected easily.

Surprisingly, however, all is not perfect in the land of King Enda. It is strange that after a series of budgets that have removed over €26bn from the economy in tax and cuts, that the gentle zephyr of next month's budget could yet be the most dangerous of all.

There was scant evidence of any sense of danger at the Fine Gael 'think-in' last week as the finance minister sat contentedly at the bar, necklaced by adoring blondes.

However, despite the absence of scarifying kite-flying, our maestro of illusion Michael Noonan may have to perform his most delicate series of tricks yet.

And despite his sunny disposition, Noonan knows that Budget 2014 may have to be 'the most clever, the most cunning the most devious of them all'.

Ironically, one of the difficulties Noonan faces is that he is paying the price of the paper success of the politics of austerity.

When the Grumpy Old Men came into office, the slightest breath of fiscal wind would have quenched the last frail flames of the living economy. Now we are at the cusp of that wondrous scenario where a zephyr of growth and job creation would set the economy on fire.

The Government knows all too acutely that we are living in potentially great times where King Enda may follow (modestly of course) in the footsteps of Michael Collins by waving goodbye to the Troika oppressors.

But whilst Enda may already be practising his own version of De Valera's "that Ireland which we dreamed of" speech, the economic situation is still equivocal.

Paddy, finally, after the humiliating submission of the bailout, has one hand on the economic tiller.

And as he bravely attempts to steer the ship on his own, the hand of the castor oil-dispensing Troika nurses is becoming ever looser.

However, the accountancy-led triumph of austerity means Noonan is going to have to deal with the difficulty of elevated expectations.

The problem, though, is that if Noonan loosens the reins of austerity too swiftly, the more the bond markets think about such a prospect, the charier they may get about loaning to poor Paddy if they suspect he is on the fiscal skive.

Ireland may be at the cusp of a Troika exit but the mathematics of a state that is still borrowing a billion euro a month to pay the bills are not good. And should the market herd start to think that now that the Troika has gone, Paddy is sloping off from the righteous path of austerity, the political consequences would be disastrous.

If Paddy, or rather Michael Noonan, was forced to go back to the Troika wringing his cap and apologising, the fiscal credibility of the Government would collapse and the reputation of a finance minister who is the heartbeat of this administration would be damaged beyond repair.

King Enda may be in the vision of Micheal Martin 'The Great Dictator' (a role ironically made famous by Charlie Chaplin as distinct to Genghis Khan) but the credibility of his finance minister is the rock upon which this administration is precariously perched.

Were the acutely political Noonan to have his way, there is little doubt that the Government would stick with the €3.1bn figure on the wise principle that this would, were any small zephyr of growth to arrive, fill and kill the austerity agenda.

One of the few core beliefs within the Coalition is the somewhat self-pitying notion that their role in politics is to clean up the mess bequeathed to them by Fianna Fail before being roundly unforgiven by an electorate who promptly returned the FF good ole boys to power so the process would start again.

The central theme of Michael Noonan's fiscal strategy has consisted of the somewhat hopeful desire that at the next general election, for once, when it comes to a Coalition of Fine Gael and Labour, the political and economic cycle will be in the same beneficial stage.

The Holy Grail, therefore, of the finance minister's strategy is that if Fine Gael or the Government can make the final push of €3.1bn, the Irish age of austerity will essentially be over.

And, glad tidings above glad tidings, this will mean that a Government that has already secured industrial peace until 2016 will have the opportunity to put together two, if not giveaway, then at least mildly Keynesian budgets in 2014 and 2015.

Should that occur, the Coalition would be into the enchanting vista of replacing the current corrosive "ah Labour, ye broke your promises" narrative with the story of how this Government, after great travail and little faith, kept its promises.

Finally, all those years after Brian Lenihan famously claimed we have turned the corner, a Government would be able to convincingly say "our plan is working".

Sadly, the €3.1bn horse has, in the wake of a series of slaps on its ever-sensitive rump by Fine Gael and Labour, galloped out the stable gates.

This, alas, is not the only variable, as Michael Noonan also has to manage feuds between Fine Gael and Labour within the Cabinet and, more astonishing still, within the Labour Cabinet ministers.

In war, that point where it is believed 'one last push' will secure victory is generally the most dangerous moment since, as with the French after Verdun in 1917, this often coincides with a rising tide of discontent within your own troops.

In this administration, Labour increasingly believes the country and, more important still, the party, have been bled white by austerity and are at the point of mutiny.

Noonan will also have to closely watch the battles between the backbench mice for the clashes between Labour's 'not a red cent extra in austerity' gang and Fine Gael's Cappuccino Kids represents a genuine ideological war that could spin dangerously out of control.

The dangerous nature of the current political landscape is intensified by the overweening arrogance of the Fine Gael elite and the growing paranoia of its Labour counterparts which was epitomised by last week's 'all too clever for its own good' campaign against Joan Burton.

So could Budget 2014 be the Gordian knot that sinks the Coalition at the very point of egress from its Troika gang-masters?

It would take an astonishing level of political mismanagement for that to happen; which means it is not entirely improbable.

Oh, and in passing, if you are wondering, a Panopticon is a prison with glass walls where the benevolent but improving chief warden can see everything.

Many would believe such a construct represents the perfect description of the soul of Fine Gael, and parts of Ireland too, under the 'gentle' rule of 'Dear Leader' Enda.

Tramps Like Us

COYW wrote: »

Have to agree with you. I don't know any of these people. I am out and about meeting all sorts of people and the vast majority of people swear that they would never vote for SF. SF always tend to poll well and then under-perform when election time comes.

MMG was cruising to victory in many online and media polls for the Presidential vote and ended up finishing third with less than half the votes of the Fianna Fail independent candidate who finished second.



We rarely agree on political issues, FTA69 but I think we can all see this love affair evolving. SF is FF lite. The funny thing is that SF will end up just like Labour in this poll, if they go into government with FF or FG.

Hahaha so professionally done political polls are now the same as easily exploited online polls? I know a lot of people who are planning to vote for SF. Dont have your head in the sand. SF support has obviously increased since the last election - even the political leeches in FF and labour can see this, hence the defections (with more to come)

raymon

Idbatterim wrote: »

I think John Drennan had an article in the Indo the other day and he was saying if FF were in government now, they would be following pretty much the exact same path and its true...

While your intentions were good , I felt ill when was reading your article from the Fianna Fail Sunday newsletter. I try to avoid quasi-propogandists like Drennan, Harris, Harris, Corcoran . Their weekly bile is depressing.

Painted Pony

I am not sure why a FG / SF alliance is being so readily dismissed. Granted both parties have a mutual distaste for the other but the allure of power has seen far more unlikely political marriages come about in other places.

I don’t think SF particularly want to be in power, any left wing party would be fairly mad to want to, and will only go in to government reluctantly.

Ironically, the most sensible and natural alliance, one between FF and FG is the one that is least likely to happen.

strongback

Labour have two of the most cynical politicianS in the dail in Pat Rabitte and Eamon Gilmore. The two student politicians have guided their career to high office without ever doing a proper days work in their lives.

After a while the lack of substance of these types of politicians shines through and people see that.

Look at Gilmore doing interviews on TV as cool as a cucumber saying there is no internal strife in the party. He has no problem spinning guff, he's made a career out of it. He has the hardest neck in the Dail.

strongback

In terms of politicians that can provide intelligent leadership I wonder if Ireland has ever been in as weak a position since the formation of the state. To me there is no politician capable of standing up and taking charge. We desperately need this.

A lot of bad decisions and bad policy is being enacted at the moment while the chattering classes are fed opinion polls and a spurious referendum.

If Labour had stayed out of government they would be thriving now, possibly top of the polls.

They should never have gone in with FG but the lure of big pay days was too much.

FTA69

COYW wrote: »

Have to agree with you. I don't know any of these people. I am out and about meeting all sorts of people and the vast majority of people swear that they would never vote for SF.

Considering your politics, who in polite conversation do you think is going to tell you they're going to vote for Sinn Féin. None of my family would ever vote for Sinn Féin now all but one of them are, and most of them were rural types who would never have countenanced it before.

SF always tend to poll well and then under-perform when election time comes.

That's actually not the case, in fact it's the opposite. Traditionally, for obvious reasons, people were reluctant to publicly articulate support for Sinn Féin but would vote for them in secret ballot. Martin Ferris getting elected in North Kerry is probably the biggest example of this.

MMG was cruising to victory in many online and media polls for the Presidential vote and ended up finishing third with less than half the votes of the Fianna Fail independent candidate who finished second.

Online polls are ridiculously skewed and can't be taken seriously to be honest.

We rarely agree on political issues, FTA69 but I think we can all see this love affair evolving. SF is FF lite. The funny thing is that SF will end up just like Labour in this poll, if they go into government with FF or FG.

While it's a possibility I think it more likely the various right-wing independents will end up in some sort of bloc to ally with one of the main parties. It won't be a stable government anyway.

nuac

gizmo555 wrote: »

I think it's telling that in the week that these poll results are published, Eamon Gilmore's doing photo-ops to publicize an airy fairy new passport design complete with poetry quotes. Personally, if I want something to read on my holidays, I'll buy a book at the airport.

It's hard to avoid the conclusion that he took the Foreign Affairs portfolio so as to avoid direct personal responsibility for the hard choices that need to be made to get the country out of the mess it's in.

Puts me in mind of the old story about how Frank Cluskey asked why Michael D Higgins was absent from a critical parliamentary Labour party meeting, to be told he was visiting the Sandinistas in Nicaragua or something like that. Cluskey responded that it was typical of him when faced with a choice between saving the world and the Labour Party, Michael D chose the easy option.

The same now seems to go for Gilmore . . .

Yes, I recall reports at the time Frank Cluskey's remark about MDH.

Does seem true about Gilmore now.

Five days in New York to make a speech?

The whole world hanging on his remarks?

BlutendeRabe

Rightwing wrote: »

FF led the country to bankruptcy, they have no credibility.
Labour, another left wing party, go into govt in an era of austerity :rolleyes:

FG and SF look like the only alternatives.

Not in coalition I hope. Don't think many people would mind if they were the two main parties.

BlutendeRabe

Adrian Kavanagh gives them zero seats at 6%.

http://politicalreform.ie/2013/09/14/autumnal-shifts-a-constituency-level-analysis-of-the-early-autumn-opinion-polls/

I'll readily admit it's just a projection on a single opinion poll. Nevertheless it not looking great for the second largest party in the country to lose all its seats (it'd be the second largest seat change in electoral history since the early 30s probably).

Godge

FTA69 wrote: »

Considering your politics, who in polite conversation do you think is going to tell you they're going to vote for Sinn Féin. None of my family would ever vote for Sinn Féin now all but one of them are, and most of them were rural types who would never have countenanced it before.

Two sentences that contradict themselves completely.

If your family would never vote for SF, then by definition, your politics was such that who in polite conversation do you think is going to tell your they're going to vote for SF?

So one of your two sentences is flawed. Either you think someone else's ivory tower is different to yours or you are lying about your family's voting intentions.

FTA69

Godge wrote: »

If your family would never vote for SF, then by definition, your politics was such that who in polite conversation do you think is going to tell your they're going to vote for SF?

My politics? I'm a Socialist Republican and have been since my early teens, and I'm not exactly softly spoken about my politics either. My maternal family on the other hand, would never have been Republican minded at all. However, nearly all of them are now voting Sinn Féin due to them being thoroughly sick of the main parties. This is a developing trend. There is a reason that people are turning to Sinn Féin, and despite what COYW thinks; people considering a vote for SF isn't a media-fuelled fiction.

So one of your two sentences is flawed. Either you think someone else's ivory tower is different to yours or you are lying about your family's voting intentions.

None of it is flawed. You just jumped to a stupid conclusion and made an eejit of yourself in the process by calling me a liar because you can't understand a simple post.