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WCC Refuse to take charge of Charlesland Dual Carriageway

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    #32
    Charlie-Bravo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,663 ✭✭✭Charlie-Bravo


    Grainne O'Loughlin and Tom Fortune are the other two councillors for Greystones. I don't know which way they voted. But I think it would be interesting to see how this amalgamation of the councils works out and how the voting for each area will proceed for the next local elections. So still worth while knowing who else voted No.

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    #33
    Cheeky Chops
    Registered Users Posts: 592 ✭✭✭Cheeky Chops


    It's like Simon Cowell and that god forsaken programme X Factor. When you think it is not possible for the farce to continue, a stunt is pulled that leaves you gobsmacked and incredulous. Big difference is I can choose to turn the TV off.

    These councillors are just the gift that keeps on giving. They go to the opening of an envelope and have the neck to go to places like China (at our expense) to promote the area as the "most liveable community" (and yes George and Grainne, that one still pisses me off no end) yet they continually mess with our town and OUR MONEY. Reckless and ill thought out decisions and no accountabilty.

    Disgrace, bloody disgrace.


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    #34
    Cerco
    Registered Users Posts: 2,039 ✭✭✭Cerco


    Looking forward to the May elections. Should be very interesting between this issue and the harbour issues.


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    #35
    pixbyjohn
    Registered Users Posts: 6,250 ✭✭✭pixbyjohn


    Cheeky Chops wrote: »
    It's like Simon Cowell and that god forsaken programme X Factor. When you think it is not possible for the farce to continue, a stunt is pulled that leaves you gobsmacked and incredulous. Big difference is I can choose to turn the TV off.

    These councillors are just the gift that keeps on giving. They go to the opening of an envelope and have the neck to go to places like China (at our expense) to promote the area as the "most liveable community" (and yes George and Grainne, that one still pisses me off no end) yet they continually mess with our town and OUR MONEY. Reckless and ill thought out decisions and no accountabilty.

    Disgrace, bloody disgrace.

    Would you like the council to take over the maintenance and then discover they haven't the money to do the actual maintenance? Just wondering what you think?


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    #36
    Charlie-Bravo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,663 ✭✭✭Charlie-Bravo


    Emotive subject this.

    The council have money to do maintenance for the people living in Greystones. The problem is they will have to manage it better and Mitchell and Jones will have to accept that their grass might be cut once less a year, or the streetlights repaired a little later than expected. Why are people in Charlesland being held to ransom for this? The SAR is being badly managed at it is, I don't see there being any improvement when the council take it in charge but at least the town is paying for it, not just Charlesland!

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    #37
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,065 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    astrofluff wrote: »
    Emotive subject this.

    The council have money to do maintenance for the people living in Greystones. The problem is they will have to manage it better and Mitchell and Jones will have to accept that their grass might be cut once less a year, or the streetlights repaired a little later than expected. Why are people in Charlesland being held to ransom for this? The SAR is being badly managed at it is, I don't see there being any improvement when the council take it in charge but at least the town is paying for it, not just Charlesland!

    Why should Charlesland have to pay for it at all? Its a main thoroughfare between greystones and delgany, greystones and kilcoole, greystones and the N11

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #38
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,065 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    pixbyjohn wrote: »
    Would you like the council to take over the maintenance and then discover they haven't the money to do the actual maintenance? Just wondering what you think?

    I think before questions like that should be considered we would need to know the a lot more information;
    How much money does it cost to maintain the road?
    What is Wicklow County Councils overall budget like?
    Are there potential savings within WCC budget?
    Do private estates anywhere else in the country pay for the maintenance of public roads?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #39
    Langerland
    Registered Users Posts: 328 ✭✭Langerland


    I find this totally bizarre. The statements from the mentioned councillors are outrageous to say the least. It is the councils responsibility. The people of Charlesland and surrounding area are already paying for the maintenance of this and other roads.

    http://www.merrionstreet.ie/index.php/2013/07/factual-position-on-local-property-tax/?cat=3

    From the 1st of January 2014 the Minister for Finance will pay the Local Property Tax into the Local Government Fund and will be used to fund local services – this provision was included in the Local Property Tax Act first published on the 14th of December and debated in the Oireachtas in December 2012.
    The Government has also announced its intention that 80% of the local property tax will be retained in the local authority area it is raised to fund local services in the area.


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    #40
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    People are getting a bit hysterical here and failing to notice that the management companies are not funding the maintenance of Farrankelly Road. The developer (who originally made a killing selling the Charlesland properties at peak prices) has been paying. WCC will have to take over eventually, but they are in no hurry. I don't have much sympathy for either of them in their squabbling.
    The Director of Services advised that there were two roads involved and that the dual carriage was not part of the housing development and therefore was not maintained by the management company but by Ballymore homes up to the present.


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    #41
    Cheeky Chops
    Registered Users Posts: 592 ✭✭✭Cheeky Chops


    pixbyjohn wrote: »
    Would you like the council to take over the maintenance and then discover they haven't the money to do the actual maintenance? Just wondering what you think?

    I'm no expert on this but I presumed public roads were paid by councils and the new taxes. For an housing estate to pay for a public road's maintenance is ridiculous. BTW is Eden Gate paying for their bit as well? Now which bit exactly is theirs???


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    #42
    pixbyjohn
    Registered Users Posts: 6,250 ✭✭✭pixbyjohn


    Cheeky Chops wrote: »
    I'm no expert on this but I presumed public roads were paid by councils and the new taxes. For an housing estate to pay for a public road's maintenance is ridiculous. BTW is Eden Gate paying for their bit as well? Now which bit exactly is theirs???
    Read post by Recedite above


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    #43
    Cheeky Chops
    Registered Users Posts: 592 ✭✭✭Cheeky Chops


    recedite wrote: »
    People are getting a bit hysterical here and failing to notice that the management companies are not funding the maintenance of Farrankelly Road. The developer (who originally made a killing selling the Charlesland properties at peak prices) has been paying. WCC will have to take over eventually, but they are in no hurry. I don't have much sympathy for either of them in their squabbling.

    And Jones "Cllr. George Jones added an amendment to Cllr. Mitchell's proposal which called on the council to defer taking charge of the dual carriageway until they engage in discussions with the six management companies currently maintaining the estate to see if they would also fund the maintenance of the road"


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    #44
    Cheeky Chops
    Registered Users Posts: 592 ✭✭✭Cheeky Chops


    recedite wrote: »
    People are getting a bit hysterical here and failing to notice that the management companies are not funding the maintenance of Farrankelly Road. The developer (who originally made a killing selling the Charlesland properties at peak prices) has been paying. WCC will have to take over eventually, but they are in no hurry. I don't have much sympathy for either of them in their squabbling.

    Apathetic if we do nothing, hysterical if we complain ... sigh


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    #45
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,065 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    recedite wrote: »
    People are getting a bit hysterical here and failing to notice that the management companies are not funding the maintenance of Farrankelly Road.
    I don't think you understand this at all.

    People are rightly anger that councillors are suggesting that IN THE FUTURE Charlesland residents should have to pay for maintenance of the road from Shoreline to Go Gym.

    And frankly I see no hysteria - just justified anger at the Councillors

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #46
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    "Cllr. George Jones added an amendment to Cllr. Mitchell's proposal which called on the council to defer taking charge of the dual carriageway until they engage in discussions with the six management companies currently maintaining the estate to see if they would also fund the maintenance of the road"
    OK so this is a quote from the Wicklow People. There is nothing about it on Clr Jones website and the official WCC council minutes for Sept are not published yet.

    Even if its true, the chances of Charlesland residents voting to take on the maintenance of the Farrankelly Road are zero. And yet, as the motion seems to have been passed with this ridiculous amendment request bolted on, it looks like the management companies will have to be officially asked the stupid question.

    Clr. Mitchell already had a proposal to stall the inevitable takeover by WCC a bit longer. Why would Clr Jones add an amendment on which only makes himself look bad?
    Who knows. I saw him in action at the Greystones Town Council meeting last week (re the harbour, and as discussed on that other thread) and it was *bizarre*.
    But nobody need worry that residents are funding or will ever fund the dual carriageway through the residents associations.
    Funding will eventually come indirectly through the property tax, which every other Wicklow property owner will also be paying.


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    #47
    matt-dublin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,468 ✭✭✭matt-dublin


    recedite wrote: »
    OK so this is a quote from the Wicklow People. There is nothing about it on Clr Jones website and the official WCC council minutes for Sept are not published yet.

    Even if its true, the chances of Charlesland residents voting to take on the maintenance of the Farrankelly Road are zero. And yet, as the motion seems to have been passed with this ridiculous amendment request bolted on, it looks like the management companies will have to be officially asked the stupid question.

    Clr. Mitchell already had a proposal to stall the inevitable takeover by WCC a bit longer. Why would Clr Jones add an amendment on which only makes himself look bad?
    Who knows. I saw him in action at the Greystones Town Council meeting last week (re the harbour, and as discussed on that other thread) and it was *bizarre*.
    But nobody need worry that residents are funding or will ever fund the dual carriageway through the residents associations.
    Funding will eventually come indirectly through the property tax, which every other Wicklow property owner will also be paying.

    We're not being asked to fund the farrenkelly road, only the link one.

    The overall committee have received a letter from the WCC with the specific minutes detailing Jones' and Mitchell's proposals. What the Wicklow people says is 100% correct.


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    #48
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,065 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    matt-dublin wrote: »
    We're not being asked to fund the farrenkelly road, only the link one.

    The overall committee have received a letter from the WCC with the specific minutes detailing Jones' and Mitchell's proposals. What the Wicklow people says is 100% correct.

    Could you scan the minutes and attach them?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #49
    matt-dublin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,468 ✭✭✭matt-dublin


    mango salsa wrote: »
    Could you scan the minutes and attach them?

    I don't have them, just saw the letter


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    #50
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    matt-dublin wrote: »
    We're not being asked to fund the farrenkelly road, only the link one.
    If the "spine road" is inside the estate and the dual carriageway outside the estate is Farrankelly Rd, what exactly is the "link road"?


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    #51
    markest
    Registered Users Posts: 265 ✭✭markest


    Farrankelly Rd is from N11 to Kilcoole roundabout. Link Rd is on to Mill Rd.


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    #52
    matt-dublin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,468 ✭✭✭matt-dublin


    recedite wrote: »
    If the "spine road" is inside the estate and the dual carriageway outside the estate is Farrankelly Rd, what exactly is the "link road"?

    Farrenkelly road stops just at the end of Eden gate.


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    #53
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    markest wrote: »
    Farrankelly Rd is from N11 to Kilcoole roundabout. Link Rd is on to Mill Rd.
    Well, neither of them is in the area managed by the Charlesland management companies.


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    #54
    matt-dublin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,468 ✭✭✭matt-dublin


    recedite wrote: »
    Well, neither of them is in the area managed by the Charlesland management companies.

    That's the whole point of this thread???!?

    The Wicklow county council were due to take them over and now they want us to pay for the landscaping maintenance of the road.


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    #55
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,065 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    recedite wrote: »
    Well, neither of them is in the area managed by the Charlesland management companies.

    Thats the point!!!!!!!!!!! - members of Wicklow County Council want Charlesland management companies to contribute towards the maintenance cost of the link road when wcc takes over the management

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #56
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    Not quite...
    WCC voted to take over the maintenance of the spine road, but not the link road from the developer.
    Clr. Jones tagged on a request to ask the Charleslanders if they would like to take on the maintainance of the so far unnamed* public link road N11 to Greystones . Obviously the answer will be "no thanks George, we'd rather not". It seems to be a stupid political delaying tactic to keep the developer paying a bit longer.
    At the next council meeting he can then propose that WCC send a letter to ask Santa Claus if he would like to take on the maintenance expenses, and so it goes on....

    * The Greystones town councillors invited public suggestions for official names for "the spine road" and "the link road" a year or two ago.
    But the council can't rename a road while it still belongs to a developer, and this handover nonsense has been going on so long now that the unofficial names are really starting to stick.


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    #57
    Cheeky Chops
    Registered Users Posts: 592 ✭✭✭Cheeky Chops


    recedite wrote: »
    Not quite...


    * The Greystones town councillors invited public suggestions for official names for "the spine road" and "the link road" a year or two ago.
    But the council can't rename a road while it still belongs to a developer, and this handover nonsense has been going on so long now that the unofficial names are really starting to stick.

    That would be The Link Road then. :P

    I would like The George Jones Drive .... :eek:


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    #58
    Charlie-Bravo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,663 ✭✭✭Charlie-Bravo


    Please don't even suggest it. He'll think he owns it and then before you know it, it'll be a toll road. Well maybe it will support his expenses claim every month :rolleyes:

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    #59
    Cheeky Chops
    Registered Users Posts: 592 ✭✭✭Cheeky Chops


    I was kinda hoping that the money raised from the property tax would be used to commission a bust of George to be placed at the entrance of the park. I would have suggested outside the dart but that would upset Derek because he laid the track with his bare hands.


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    #60
    Maudi
    Registered Users Posts: 1,516 ✭✭✭Maudi


    Cheeky Chops wrote: »
    That would be The Link Road then. :P

    I would like The George Jones Drive .... :eek:

    Or can we at least show some gratitude by calling the big fat roundabout at the the swimming pool the "george jones roundabout.."?


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    #61
    tennisplayer
    Registered Users Posts: 57 ✭✭tennisplayer


    Maudi wrote: »
    Or can we at least show some gratitude by calling the big fat roundabout at the the swimming pool the "george jones roundabout.."?
    Remarks like that are not nice regardless of what you think of the person.


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