Buying a site that's not for sale e.g garden

davkel

Hi, I'm looking for a bit of advice. My wife and I have saved for the last couple of years to buy/build a house. We would like to spend around €500k on a house but are not seeing anything we like in the areas (all dublin) we like.

As a result of this I have been looking into where we could possibly build in the area. This has mainly been using Google maps and then heading around on foot to see how viable it is. At this stage we've narrowed it down to a few feasible sites that are either a large garden with access to a a road or clearings/old sites with nothing done to them.

When it comes to the garden's what is the best approach, do I just knock on the door and say I'd like to buy a piece of your garden? Is there a process? And should i get a lawyer involved at that stage as I would have to put up the planning request in their name as I cannot apply on land I do not own. And then if it is granted what's to stop them saying actually no and then selling it on for more than we agreed.I have an architect in the family who is drawing up some rough plans and will have an estimate of what we would need to build our house and have space for a garden (doesn't have to be huge).

Any advice from people who have been through this would be greatly appreciated. We have already spoke to the bank about this option an understand and agree with the breakdown but as far as the approach they weren't very helpful.

I guess it would come down to knocking on the door and asking if they are interested in selling their garden. There is absolutely no point in going any further if the owner has no intention of selling.

You might need legal help identifying the owner of a scrub or waste site.

Once a willing seller is identified you would then begin the legal process and would need to take advice from your solicitor and architect.

It did happen during the boom - my father was working in a field and someone came in asking if he would sell them a site. He said no.

djimi

First step is to approach the owner and see if they would be interested. Expect to be turned down a lot (I wouldnt be overly impressed by someone randomly showing up at my door offering to buy my garden...). There is no point planning any further until you have at least gotten some confirmation of interest.

davkel

Cheers I guess I'll just have to pick an appropriate time and try not to dress like a salesman. I'm sure there are some people that would be interested. At the end of the day they could make a significant amount of money for something they never or very rarely use.

djimi

What kind of garden are we talking here? Unless you are referring to buying a corner of someones 20 acre estate, I think its a bit rich to think that they wont mind selling you part of their property and allowing you to build a house on it!

davkel

the gardens I'm looking at we'd be be building on a quarter~third of their garden some less. I amn't looking at anything where nobody would sell or where isn't feasible. All sites have been sent to the architect who has come back with various planning applications that were never delivered for whatever reason. So on many of them at some point people wanted to build, got permission but never went ahead with it.

adocholiday

One thing to be wary of is planning zoning & restrictions. You don't want to drop cash on a site and then find you can do nothing with it! In Dublin especially there are very strict regulations on one-off housing and building on open spaces or agricultural land. I used to work for a local authority Planning and Development section so I know what I'm talking about here.

If you identify a site and the owner is amenable to selling it, check with the local planning authority for zonings and arrange a pre-planning meeting. This will allow you to ascertain the Council's view of your proposal in principle. You don't need formal plans or anything at this stage, your rough draft of the plans would suffice. There are mountains of things to consider with something like this so tread very very carefully. I have seen quite a few proposals for similar ideas to yours and they fall down quite regularly.

Good luck with it in any case. If you have any questions for me ask away

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Doesn't a site need to be .5 of an acre? And you can apply for planning permission in your own name if you don't own the land, or at least you could, a few years ago.

rugbyman

All in all, I feel you have a mamoth task, and perhaps costly.
Firstly some time ago, and I assume it is still the same, you can apply for p.p.with the owners consent. I even think , without his consent,
To apply for outline permission, (no specific house) is not too expensive , but to apply for full p.p. entails plans. GENERALLY speaking the planners will have a chat with you and give you an indication of whether you are wasting your time and money

Consider this searh the web for a run down property with big garden, buy it and split it up yourself
Regards

davkel

Thanks for the advice, it is a big ask but it could be worth it. The worst thing people can say is no and it's a case of nothing ventured nothing gained. I would however want to be certain that I could build somewhere before any significant figures changed hands. 0.5 acre minimum seems really big, not sure that's the case, but if it is please let me know.

Mrs OBumble

davkel wrote: »

Cheers I guess I'll just have to pick an appropriate time and try not to dress like a salesman. I'm sure there are some people that would be interested. At the end of the day they could make a significant amount of money for something they never or very rarely use.

Get cunning.

Find out who the people are. Look them up on Facebook - or even better, LinkedIn. Find out what makes them tick. Find a mutual friend or acquaintence to introduce you. Makes you look less dodgy.

Note: I'm not advocating being a stalker. Just look for connections the same way that any recruiter or lobbyist would.

davkel

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Get cunning.

Find out who the people are. Look them up on Facebook - or even better, LinkedIn. Find out what makes them tick. Find a mutual friend or acquaintence to introduce you. Makes you look less dodgy.

Note: I'm not advocating being a stalker. Just look for connections the same way that any recruiter or lobbyist would.

I get it you "don't" want me to stalk them. ;-)

I was just going to call in and if they were busy leave a letter with what i was looking to do and my contact details. I'll completely understand if it's a no.

Ray Palmer

This is all really strange. Firstly the idea of applying for planning before you buy the land and secondly unable to find what you want.

So on the first issue, it is extremely ill advised approach. You buy and then apply for planning. All else is risky for the reasons described.

Secondly if you are looking all over Dublin and have yet to see what want how do you think you can afford to build it? Your requirements could be too much or you could be kidding yourself into what you can get built.

Given you hired an architect to search on sites you investigated I am guessing you will be paying over the odds for any development. The architect probably just did the on-line search and charged you for it. An architect will be paid by you whether you get planning or not. It doesn't make much difference to them and should always be considered.

You will pay top price for any land using the approach you have. They aren't going to be motivated sellers.

Best option is buy the worst house on a street you like and upgrade it to what you want.

From what has been said it doesn't sound like a lot of options have been explored, how many houses have you gone to viewings on?

davkel

We've viewed 9 houses to date. The worst houses on the street are severly over priced (or not even for sale), it would take half a million to buy the house before being able to do anything to it. I am looking into this option as I believe it's no harm to do so, my requirements aren't huge, we're in no rush.
For the houses were planning was previously in place and has lapsed I would consider a purchase without planning but where it is not I wouldn't, there's no way I would buy a piece of land, apply for planning get turned down and then be left with my own private garden but nowhere to live.

The architect is my uncle, there's no charge for what he's doing at the minute, he's just helping out and telling me which ones to rule out and which ones are feasible.

Ray Palmer

davkel wrote: »

We've viewed 9 houses to date. The worst houses on the street are severly over priced (or not even for sale), it would take half a million to buy the house before being able to do anything to it. I am looking into this option as I believe it's no harm to do so, my requirements aren't huge, we're in no rush.
For the houses were planning was previously in place and has lapsed I would consider a purchase without planning but where it is not I wouldn't, there's no way I would buy a piece of land, apply for planning get turned down and then be left with my own private garden but nowhere to live.

The architect is my uncle, there's no charge for what he's doing at the minute, he's just helping out and telling me which ones to rule out and which ones are feasible.

9 houses is a very small amount of property before making a jump into a self build.

If you aren't willing to buy the land before applying for planning then exclude all properties without planning already granted. Why would anybody would let you apply for planning in order to sell their land do this is a mystery to me. They would be better off applying them selves and selling at a higher price.

That would be the other thing I think you might be missing, price. A site in a nice area will cost a lot of money. You are unlikely to be able to buy a plot of land and build in Dublin and be better off than buying a house where you want. There is also the extra stress.

It basically happens to everybody looking for a property, reality has to sink in. You realise you can't afford exactly what you want in the right area. You have to give in on something.

davkel

We'll continue viewing, we're not completely abandoning one thing to focus solely on the other. we could get rebuffed by everyone and 6 months later see a house being built on one of the plots but not care because we found the right house.

Santa Cruz

If you get a person willing to sell you can make an agreement to purchase conditional on planning permission being granted. Get an architect to check the site and prepared a planning submission. However you will also need a written permission from the present owner in which it is indicated that a transfer of land will go through if planning permission is granted. The Council will not entertain a planning permission otherwise.

riclad

THERES probably older people with a large garden , maybe a corner house, that would be very happy to sell half the garden as a site .

BUT they would never think of putting it up for sale ,
also theres old houses for sale with large gardens ,
eg houses that need renovation .
These tend to be cheaper , than other houses in the area.

eg You could buy a small house with a large garden,
then just modernise and make the house much bigger ,

see channel 4 tv uk,
DOUBLE your house , half the price ,its on every week at the moment ,
it may be on channel 4 4od, or c4 tv youtube.

drive around the area,
its not easy to find all houses , sites for sale on the web.

i know some one bought old house , knocked it down,

BUILT a new large house on the site.

WIZE

Question:

IF you were to sell your garden, wouldn't you need your Mortgage Bank to agree to it also if you had an outstanding mortgage or would that approval be needed?

davkel

WIZE wrote: »

Question:

IF you were to sell your garden, wouldn't you need your Mortgage Bank to agree to it also if you had an outstanding mortgage or would that approval be needed?

that's a pretty good point, I have no idea. The assumption would be that your property is being devalued but then again you can do what you want with it as long as you're paying your mortgage. In short I dont know.

convert

When I was living in digs in Goatstown, a builder (according to my landlady) approached my landlady and asked if she'd be interested in selling her garden and letting him build on it. I don't know the ins and outs of the process, but in the end she decided against selling the site and decided to build a house herself. She was decent enough to let her neighbours know in advance of putting in for application, and wasn't in the least bit surprised that they'd object (she even called in to remind them to put in their objection before time ran out!). The last time I was there, a planning application had been posted outside her house and she was definitely intending to build. I was actually thinking about it recently, saying that I should take a drive by and see what happened in the end.

There's nothing wrong with dropping in and seeing what they say - just expect to be chased by some people!

Idbatterim

half a million at the moment will buy you quite a house, where exactly in Dublin are you looking?! and what is it your looking for? Im just after throwing in max price up to 550k and you can buy the likes of the below for it. Im assuming your looking at south dublin...

http://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/29-wesley-heights-dundrum-dublin-16/2232397
http://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/69-grove-park-rathmines-dublin-6/2613764
http://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/8-briarly-court-churchtown-dublin-14/2583467
http://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/20-hollywood-drive-goatstown-dublin-14/2535507