982 EUROS METEOR BILL!!!!

SpaceTime

OK, so if the polices are so customer-friendly, then why are their endless stories of customers ending up with absolutely ridiculous bills cropping up in the media all over the world?

I am quite surprised at the very anti-consumer stance being taken by a number of posters on this thread and can only assume they must be working in the mobile industry and defending what's basically indefensible in terms of consumer protection.

Off hand, I can't think of any other utility company that would treat customers in this way.

keithclancy

I think this is a good reason to use Pre-Paid rather than Contract.

IMO a bill of almost 1000 euros is a bit unreasonable, when they are selling it as a broadband product.

For example if you go over your allowance with a fixed line provider or a Fixed Wireless provider they'll just give you a warning.

I would ask for them to provide proof that they notified you exceeding your limit.

Even if they did, providers in most cases will reduce the bill to a reasonable amount, I've only seen a lack of negotiation when it was a business contract and the large amount was due to data roaming.

Its a bit ridiculous that people are saying "your should have known" and "its your own fault" not very helpful at all, its a consumer forum not a Schadenfreude or Morality forum :rolleyes:

BurnsCarpenter

Cabaal wrote: »

But telecom contracts aren't confusing IF you bother your arse to read them, most customer's never take the time to do so though. They just blindly agree.

Also, you don't need to read the contract to know you will be charged for going outside of the stated cap, take a look at

http://www1.meteor.ie/mobilebroadband/billpay/?linkid=broadband_sub

It states the cap but then clearly it normal sized text states:



As for your example of protests with electricity, this is utter nonsense.
Customers have plenty of choice when it comes to Broadband packages and caps, nobody forced the OP to go with the package they choose.

I don't know, I'm all for personal responsibility but I think these types of charges are crazy. The fact is that a lot of people don't read the terms closely, even if they should, and the telcos know this. There's no justification for the massive increase - it's pure price gouging.

Just because it's written in the terms doesn't make it morally justifiable, even if it's ok by the letter of the law (although imo there is an argument that this type of charge is not equitable under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts legislation)

In all honesty, people really need to start educating themselves on these issues. It can all accumulate and streaming is essentially the exact same as downloading with regards to these dongles.

If the OP lives in an area where broadband is available, then they should switch over to that. €50 a month would get them a pretty good bundle.

SpaceTime

I suspect we've a lot of rather self-rightious telecoms sector people on this particular thread.

The average consumer hasn't a bull's notion what they're signing up for in terms of broadband products most of the time. I've spoken to quite a lot of people who would quite likely think they were getting a free hat if you told them about the cap.

Mostly they don't understand anything other than the headline speed, and even that's often not even fully understood as many of them seem to quote speeds in Megabytes (as do many of the sales reps).

A lot of these astronomical charges are snuck in, small print T&Cs.

I mean, seriously this kind of stuff makes certain budget airlines seem like absolute saints of customer care in comparison.

lala88

keithclancy wrote: »

I think this is a good reason to use Pre-Paid rather than Contract.

IMO a bill of almost 1000 euros is a bit unreasonable, when they are selling it as a broadband product.

For example if you go over your allowance with a fixed line provider or a Fixed Wireless provider they'll just give you a warning.

I would ask for them to provide proof that they notified you exceeding your limit.

Even if they did, providers in most cases will reduce the bill to a reasonable amount, I've only seen a lack of negotiation when it was a business contract and the large amount was due to data roaming.

Its a bit ridiculous that people are saying "your should have known" and "its your own fault" not very helpful at all, its a consumer forum not a Schadenfreude or Morality forum :rolleyes:

How is it anti customer when a company wants to be paid? Again more typical boards bull****, so just because someone doesnt agree with what you have to say they have to work with the company? Why is it boards is the only place people are left make claims like that without having anything to back it up?

Like i siad this is just another example of someone trying to get out for paying a bill. There are countless examples of this on this forum, and the usual posters are on here encouraging it

SpaceTime

Because the bill does not reflect the cost of the service and is basically a made-up penalty charge perhaps?

lala88

SpaceTime wrote: »

I suspect we've a lot of rather self-rightious telecoms sector people on this particular thread.

The average consumer hasn't a bull's notion what they're signing up for in terms of broadband products most of the time. I've spoken to quite a lot of people who would quite likely think they were getting a free hat if you told them about the cap.

Mostly they don't understand anything other than the headline speed, and even that's often not even fully understood as many of them seem to quote speeds in Megabytes (as do many of the sales reps).

A lot of these astronomical charges are snuck in, small print T&Cs.

I mean, seriously this kind of stuff makes certain budget airlines seem like absolute saints of customer care in comparison.

How is that the company's fault? Again if you sign up to something without reading the contract or dont know what it is its your own fault

lala88

SpaceTime wrote: »

Because the bill does not reflect the cost of the service and is basically a made-up penalty charge perhaps?

You'd want something to back up a claim like that! How is it made up?

SpaceTime

lala88 wrote: »

You'd want something to back up a claim like that! How is it made up?

OK, so how does data suddenly go from being X to being 42X at a randomly picked allocation point?
Other than someone's decided that it should be a penalty rate i.e. to curb usage beyond a certain point?

lala88

SpaceTime wrote: »

OK, so how does data suddenly go from being X to being 42X at a randomly picked allocation point?

Its you that has to back your point up not me.

Bobeagleburger

If you can't pay it they'll greatly reduce the bill. You're a customer for a good few years.

Ring them and ask for a manager and explain your situation. I guarantee you'll have your bill slashed massively.


As for the people telling the OP he/she should know about data capacities on Netflix. Give him or her a break. I'd be savvy with this stuff myself but not everyone is. I have parents and mates my own age that wouldn't have a clue.

muppetkiller

I thought I was in a bad place when they charged me 80 euro for a mystery 7gig download on my phone one night..

I still haven't paid it and never will. Thanks to the Data Protection Act there was no way for them to tell me what I downloaded. So in my book if you can't prove to me what I downloaded Then I ain't paying for it. Burden of proof and all that.
I know for a fact I didn't download anything and in fact the 7gig downloaded on my phone was equivalent to the entire downloads I had for nearly two years prior.

I would also agree with the other posters that Meteor are a woeful company and who's out of contract charges are scandalous. Refuse to pay it and suggest you'll pay 100 or you're leaving them. They are not registered with the Irish Credit Agency as far as I'm aware so your credit history wont be impacted.

campo

For people comparing this to a phone plan, you can't compare the two and why you may ask well let me explain

If you were signing up to a phone plan say 20e a month for 400mins, and every minute after that is 5e...then you know what you are getting into as everyone knows what a minute is and can easily calculate their usage themselves.

Now if someone is signing up to a broadband pack say 2gb usage for 20e a month a 4c for every MB after that, then must people would not have a clue what that means.

So customer then proceeds to ask what does that mean and she gets told oh you could watch Youtube all day and still not go over the limit....fair enough she say's
Then Netflix is released now is it such a big stretch for someone not tech savvy to think that Youtube and Netflix is basically the same thing, they both play videos after all..

As far as I am concerned Meteor has a lot to answer for her bill is normally 50-60e a month a they let the bill go up to 1k without even making a call to make sure that she was using the service or she realises how much she is using...

SpaceTime

lala88 wrote: »

Its you that has to back your point up not me.

Eh, I think neither of us do. Rather I would like to see an explanation from the mobile industry in general as to how they justify these charges. They're quite obviously penalty rates to discourage high usage, but there are much less consumer-unfriendly ways of doing this such as cutting off service / throttling speeds back to non-broadband rates etc etc.

I'd also add that in a lot of cases consumers may not even know what they're downloading:

System updates, software updates and worse again, virus-induced problems, can result in massive downloads occurring behind the scenes without the end users' knowledge.

It just seems ridiculous to me to set up a system where people can go beyond a limit of something they will have difficulty measuring and then have no reasonable way of dealing with that other than to charge them a huge premium on every unit of data used beyond that arbitrary agreed limit?

jaykay74

Personally I would like some clarity at the moment the charges vary on my data usage. Something along the lines of a text to your mobile with the info below...

"You have used 100% of your data allowance for the month. Any further data downloaded will be charge at a rate of 5c per MB"

Sure the company have no obligation to provide this active warning and can point to a passive approach which requires the user to login to a system to check what data is remaining but I would judge a provider favourably for the active approach.

I guess its a question of whether Meteor or whoever wants to catch people out in this way as a revenue earner or want it to be a deterrent.

SpaceTime

There's a lot of clarity required on intra-EU roaming charges nowadays including a text. However, for national out-of-bundle charges it's not really the same.

All these huge prices will do is drive people off bill-pay broadband dongles entirely as they'll be afraid of 'bill shock'.

I would also predict this will become more of an issue as more and more people want access to streaming content like Netflix, RTE Player, AerTv, Spotify, iTunes Radio etc etc

Streaming to portable devices is rapidly becoming the norm and people expect to be able to do that over a broadband connection.

So, whatever about the T&Cs I can see a lot more people walking themselves into this kind of situation and from a marketing point of view, it makes no sense to allow it to happen.

People would be slightly annoyed but understand when they run out of an allowance and being throttled / cut off but, people will be really angry if they're hit with a massive invoice like that and it just damages their relationship with the biller whoever they might be.

Loads of mobile companies do this, it's not just the one being mentioned in this thread.

jaykay74

Thinking about it a bit more Meteor or whoever could use the active texting approach to sell a more expensive bundle.

"You have used 100% of your data allowance for the month. Any further data downloaded will be charge at a rate of 5c per MB, please consider updating your plan to our download shedloads plan at 49 euro a month, call our customer helpline on xxx"

This way instead of price shock for the customer they earn more revenue through a higher price plan over the coming years.

SpaceTime

Some of the fixed line broadband companies just automatically bump you to a higher package if you do that anyway.

It definitely makes a lot more sense as the customer realises : Oh, I better buy more data! Rather than : OMG! I can't pay my mortgage this month!

Femme_Fatale

rarnes1 wrote: »

Ring them and ask for a manager and explain your situation. I guarantee you'll have your bill slashed massively.

Can you really "guarantee" it? The OP has already explained her situation to them.

A lot of "guarantees" and incorrect advice/opinion masquerading as advice being given here. Not sure it's of any use to the OP.

Bepolite

Cabaal wrote: »

If the OP signed up to a call package with 200min included but then racked up bills by calling places for 3000min in a month I don't think people would be defending her.

(To address this one as you actually seem a sensible person and are the BB mod so you'll probably have a better knowledge of the industry than I.)

I absolutely would. The telco would place the same credit limit on the account and cut the customer off if reached. In the case of at least two they simply redirect calls to their call centres and speak to the customer. Is it really that unusual?

keithclancy

lala88 wrote: »

How is it anti customer when a company wants to be paid? Again more typical boards bull****, so just because someone doesnt agree with what you have to say they have to work with the company? Why is it boards is the only place people are left make claims like that without having anything to back it up?

Like i siad this is just another example of someone trying to get out for paying a bill. There are countless examples of this on this forum, and the usual posters are on here encouraging it

What difference does it make to you ?
And why are you so emotional about the topic ?

:rolleyes:

I know people that have had their bill waived.

I myself have recieved a Cheque from 'an Irish mobile operator' for an amount they debited from my account as they did not notify me of going over my limit.

There is a responsibility on the supplier to notify the customer of excessive charges.

E.G. You go to rent a car, if you choose to rent without excess insurance they circle this multiple times on the form and inform you that you are responsible for the excess amount if you have an accident.

These providers say 'Xc / kB' when a lot of people don't even know what a Kilobyte is.

And as you know already, there is a European cap on roaming of 50 euros, before this restriction, you could argue that those people were stupid also for going over their roaming data allowance (I know two people, one recieved a bill of 19000 euros in Switzerland and another recieved a bill of 26000 euros in Austria, both bills were waived)

An consumer who gets Eircom broadband and Meteor Mobile Internet doesn't see a difference in the product, they just get Internet.

However if you go over your allowance on Eircom broadband they just advise you to upgrade to the unlimited package

If you go over your allowance on Meteor Broadband you get an excessively high bill.

Nearly all of those bills are negotiable.

Paulw

Bepolite wrote: »

I absolutely would. The telco would place the same credit limit on the account and cut the customer off if reached. In the case of at least two they simply redirect calls to their call centres and speak to the customer. Is it really that unusual?

No operator has any credit limit, nor usage limit. They have packages. Anything above the limit in the package has increased prices. They justify this by stating that you are being given a reduced rate on the standard package of usage. This is the same for every operator.

Operators don't monitor your usage, believe it or not. It's all automated systems. You use the product, the system adds it all up, and you are sent a bill. That is the disadvantage of a postpaid bill model. If you use the product, you are liable for the bill, even if you don't like the amount.

The EU forced operators to limit and notify customers for data usage for roaming. That is in place. But, there is no such thing for usage on national networks. The operators have no obligation to do it.

It is the responsibility of the customer to check their usage. There are a number of ways of doing that - on their device, online, by calling customer care, etc. If they don't use those (which the OP admits they didn't), then that is not the fault of the operator. The facilities are there.

The OP was careless. The OP didn't realise what she was doing. The OP didn't understand the technology. The OP didn't perform any checks. The OP just made assumptions, and only when she got the bill did she have a problem. Is that the fault of the operator? Nope. Sorry, it's the fault of the OP.

Bepolite

Paulw wrote: »

No operator has any credit limit, nor usage limit. They have packages. Anything above the limit in the package has increased prices. They justify this by stating that you are being given a reduced rate on the standard package of usage. This is the same for every operator.

Err... I work for a Telco with a credit limit. I know of at least one more.

Paulw wrote: »

Operators don't monitor your usage, believe it or not. It's all automated systems. You use the product, the system adds it all up, and you are sent a bill. That is the disadvantage of a postpaid bill model. If you use the product, you are liable for the bill, even if you don't like the amount.

I realise it's automated but the systems in place have to be fair. UPC for example used to upgrade the package, Smart telecom used to throttle you. (In the data sense!)

Paulw wrote: »

The EU forced operators to limit and notify customers for data usage for roaming. That is in place. But, there is no such thing for usage on national networks. The operators have no obligation to do it.

Why do you think that was?

Paulw

Bepolite wrote: »

I realise it's automated but the systems in place have to be fair. UPC for example used to upgrade the package, Smart telecom used to throttle you. (In the data sense!)

You're talking about data networks, rather than telecom networks. The systems are quite different.

keithclancy

Paulw wrote: »

No operator has any credit limit, nor usage limit. They have packages. Anything above the limit in the package has increased prices. They justify this by stating that you are being given a reduced rate on the standard package of usage. This is the same for every operator.

Operators don't monitor your usage, believe it or not. It's all automated systems. You use the product, the system adds it all up, and you are sent a bill. That is the disadvantage of a postpaid bill model. If you use the product, you are liable for the bill, even if you don't like the amount.

The EU forced operators to limit and notify customers for data usage for roaming. That is in place. But, there is no such thing for usage on national networks. The operators have no obligation to do it.

It is the responsibility of the customer to check their usage. There are a number of ways of doing that - on their device, online, by calling customer care, etc. If they don't use those (which the OP admits they didn't), then that is not the fault of the operator. The facilities are there.

The OP was careless. The OP didn't realise what she was doing. The OP didn't understand the technology. The OP didn't perform any checks. The OP just made assumptions, and only when she got the bill did she have a problem. Is that the fault of the operator? Nope. Sorry, it's the fault of the OP.

Sorry but hard limits are quite common in the Netherlands and Germany (shuts off)

T-Mobile have a soft limit where they restrict you to 64kBs when you go over your allowance.

Data is tricky, since it can be a Technical issue with the equipment used on the network (e.g. Windows updates) or OTA updates for phones.

SpaceTime

This is exactly the kind of reason why regulators and governments have to implement consumer protection law.

In this incidence consumers are clearly vulnerable and the industry's not capable of self-regulating to provide a sensible outcome for both sides.

So, I think really ComReg should step in.

I realise that some of the billing systems could be using quite simple technology, however if the networks are able to operate prepay broadband to caps and cut you off, wouldn't that imply that they have the technical capability to operate bill-pay broadband to a cap too and just pause the service when X GB is reached?

I don't buy the argument that it's technically impossible or even technically difficult to do. They're just opting not to do it for whatever reason! I'm not psychic and I have no insider knowledge so I can only guess they don't want to spend the money on the systems or they make a healthy stream of income on the excess use charges.

keithclancy

SpaceTime wrote: »

I realise that some of the billing systems could be using quite simple technology, however if the networks are able to operate prepay broadband to caps and cut you off, wouldn't that imply that they have the technical capability to operate bill-pay broadband to a cap too and just pause the service when X GB is reached?

I don't buy the argument that it's technically impossible or even technically difficult to do. They're just opting not to do it for whatever reason! I'm not psychic and I have no insider knowledge so I can only guess they don't want to spend the money on the systems or they make a healthy stream of income on the excess use charges.

Its totally possible,
For example with KPN Mobile (Dutch Operator)

At 80% usage of your allowance you get an SMS
At 100% usage of your allowance you get an SMS and the Internet is shut off.

To continue usage you need to send a free SMS to a number to indicate you want to continue using it or not, charges to continue are stated in the SMS.

Bepolite

Paulw wrote: »

You're talking about data networks, rather than telecom networks. The systems are quite different.

Oh so this dead easy to understand system we all should be intimately familiar with ain't so easy to understand after all?

Either there is real-time information available or there's not. If there is RT info then the company shouldn't allow a customer to rack up this sort of bill. The other side of the argument is the one you're putting across, and it's also dependant on RT info.

If there is no RT info available this only strengthens the OP case under unfair contract terms regs.

You've managed to drag me back into this argument . Must. Log. Off. And. Do. Something. Useful.

SpaceTime

SpaceTime wrote: »

This is exactly the kind of reason why regulators and governments have to implement consumer protection law.

In this incidence consumers are clearly vulnerable and the industry's not capable of self-regulating to provide a sensible outcome for both sides.

So, I think really ComReg should step in.

I realise that some of the billing systems could be using quite simple technology, however if the networks are able to operate prepay broadband to caps and cut you off, wouldn't that imply that they have the technical capability to operate bill-pay broadband to a cap too and just pause the service when X GB is reached?

I don't buy the argument that it's technically impossible or even technically difficult to do. They're just opting not to do it for whatever reason! I'm not psychic and I have no insider knowledge so I can only guess they don't want to spend the money on the systems or they make a healthy stream of income on the excess use charges.

keithclancy wrote: »

Data is tricky, since it can be a Technical issue with the equipment used on the network (e.g. Windows updates) or OTA updates for phones.

If you were, for example, to update your Mac's operating system from say OS X 10.7 to 10.8 you're looking at a 831MB download.

iOS 7 update on iPhones and iPads comes in at a whopping 752 MB.

Android 4.2.2. update on HTC One : 408.79MB

Netflix:


Good quality (uses up to 0.3 GB per hour)
Better quality (uses up to 0.7 GB per hour)
Best quality (uses up to 1 GB per hour, up to 2.8 GB per hour if watching HD, or up to 4.7 GB per hour if watching 3D)

So, watching a few TV shows could really put you quite far over your limit.

Bear in mind that Spotify uses Peer-to-Peer to supplement their own network bandwidth so you can be burning data without even realising it.