Does Bank of Ireland not like their Small Business customers?

Dummy

My local branch of Bank of Ireland has recently introduced a new policy for businesses lodging cheques. We have to use a machine if we are lodging under 15 cheques !!

So what's my gripe with this?

- It takes me longer to lodge. Lodging 9 cheques at the cashiers desk took 23 seconds. Lodging 7 cheques this morning by machine took 4.6 minutes. Not really a big thing, more an observation.

- My main gripe is that I have lost the ability to have a reference number (a lodgement number) that I can use for accounts. For a business customer, this generates major hassle in accounting for bank recs, audits etc. The only reference I can see is a date which is of no use in accounting (we have that already). Or am I missing something?

So my question, why is Bank of Ireland making it difficult for small business? Do you not want our money & would you prefer if we took our business elsewhere?

Rgds.

D.

Bank of Ireland: Sean

Hi D,

Lodgement ATMs have been introduced to reduce the queues in branch, once all our customers become accustomed to using them we hope it will speed up the whole process.  

When you use a lodgement ATM you are provided with a reference number on the receipt which relates to the card you used along with a copy of each cheque.  If a business customer has a couple of outlets or people lodging for them they will see on their statement the branch sorting code where the lodgement was made and the reference number of the card.  The copy of the cheque is not provided if you make the lodgement with a cashier.

We can assure you that Bank of Ireland values all their customers.  We are constantly looking at stream lining our services and investing in our branch network.  We will pass your feedback onto the branch network regarding these changes.

  
Thanks for posting

Seán

Dummy

Bank of Ireland: Sean wrote: »

Hi D,

Lodgement ATMs have been introduced to reduce the queues in branch, once all our customers become accustomed to using them we hope it will speed up the whole process.  

When you use a lodgement ATM you are provided with a reference number on the receipt which relates to the card you used along with a copy of each cheque.  If a business customer has a couple of outlets or people lodging for them they will see on their statement the branch sorting code where the lodgement was made and the reference number of the card.  The copy of the cheque is not provided if you make the lodgement with a cashier.

We can assure you that Bank of Ireland values all their customers.  We are constantly looking at stream lining our services and investing in our branch network.  We will pass your feedback onto the branch network regarding these changes.

  
Thanks for posting

Seán

Seán,

Thank you for your reply.

However, you have said it yourself, that there is no unique number attached to the lodgement. It has the branch sort code & the reference number of the card on the receipt. At this time of year, I am going to the same bank almost every day, that I have gone to since 2001. A lodgement might be made up of 5 cheques or 10 cheques. What means is there for a small business to reconcile their bank at the end of the month with numerous entries on the statement that read 12349876? With our lodgement book, we were able to do this. Each lodgement had a unique lodgement number. This appears to be lost now with this new system. If I am correct, the bank rec will now probably take much longer & our audit fees could potentially increase. Even if we were able to key in a unique number of our own would help.

Copies of cheques are no use to a business. We are trying to reduce the paper we store, not increase it. It does not assist our accounting function at all.

Also, does such a technology system bring with it, a reduction in the fees that we are charged?

Seán, I will always be the first in the queue to embrace technological advances but I am struggling to see how this is going to help my business with it's banking needs.

Am I missing something here?


Rgds.

D.

Bank of Ireland: Sean

Dummy wrote: »

Bank of Ireland: Sean wrote: »

Hi D,

Lodgement ATMs have been introduced to reduce the queues in branch, once all our customers become accustomed to using them we hope it will speed up the whole process.  

When you use a lodgement ATM you are provided with a reference number on the receipt which relates to the card you used along with a copy of each cheque.  If a business customer has a couple of outlets or people lodging for them they will see on their statement the branch sorting code where the lodgement was made and the reference number of the card.  The copy of the cheque is not provided if you make the lodgement with a cashier.

We can assure you that Bank of Ireland values all their customers.  We are constantly looking at stream lining our services and investing in our branch network.  We will pass your feedback onto the branch network regarding these changes.

  
Thanks for posting

Seán

Seán,

Thank you for your reply.

However, you have said it yourself, that there is no unique number attached to the lodgement. It has the branch sort code & the reference number of the card on the receipt. At this time of year, I am going to the same bank almost every day, that I have gone to since 2001. A lodgement might be made up of 5 cheques or 10 cheques. What means is there for a small business to reconcile their bank at the end of the month with numerous entries on the statement that read 12349876? With our lodgement book, we were able to do this. Each lodgement had a unique lodgement number. This appears to be lost now with this new system. If I am correct, the bank rec will now probably take much longer & our audit fees could potentially increase. Even if we were able to key in a unique number of our own would help.

Copies of cheques are no use to a business. We are trying to reduce the paper we store, not increase it. It does not assist our accounting function at all.

Also, does such a technology system bring with it, a reduction in the fees that we are charged?

Seán, I will always be the first in the queue to embrace technological advances but I am struggling to see how this is going to help my business with it's banking needs.

Am I missing something here?


Rgds.

D.

Hi D,

As we said in our previous response, we will pass all your comments on regarding these changes.  In this instance we would suggest contacting your relationship manager in your branch to discuss this further as we are unable to discuss policy changes on a public forum.  They may be able to offer alternatives for your specific banking needs.

You can find the contact details for your branch here.

Thanks

Seán 

bigmax

Dummy wrote: »

My local branch of Bank of Ireland has recently introduced a new policy for businesses lodging cheques. We have to use a machine if we are lodging under 15 cheques !!

So what's my gripe with this?

- It takes me longer to lodge. Lodging 9 cheques at the cashiers desk took 23 seconds. Lodging 7 cheques this morning by machine took 4.6 minutes. Not really a big thing, more an observation.

- My main gripe is that I have lost the ability to have a reference number (a lodgement number) that I can use for accounts. For a business customer, this generates major hassle in accounting for bank recs, audits etc. The only reference I can see is a date which is of no use in accounting (we have that already). Or am I missing something?

So my question, why is Bank of Ireland making it difficult for small business? Do you not want our money & would you prefer if we took our business elsewhere?

Rgds.

D.

Bigmax,BOI are making it difficult for the small account holder,they like your money coming in weekly/monthly,I am not in negative
equity,I am a pensioner and wanted to consolidate a few small Loans,they said that they could not do so because some of it was not their debt.I explained that it was my debt,and the repayment was paid up to date every month.One of my siblings are very ill and travel to her frequently to help. All I wanted was to have one payment ,to have extra cash to Travel, buy oil and essentials that I need for this winter.They usually send out someone to take a few notes from me and then the usual small talk,about the weather and to conclude the appointment your are told that they cannot facilitate or some flimsy excuse,mine was my age,65yrs,-hope to outlive their expectations- ,their was no brownie points for being with the BOI for over 35 years,had my paid off mortgage with them.No that does not matter BOI don,t care about people,taxpayer like you and I,we pay the tax levy,sure,we ar all fools, listening to Politicans telling us that the Banks are lending, "pure bull".The Banks are screwing us from both ends assisted by this present Government,shame on them.I had to travel 20 miles to a Private Bank( not funded by state) people that I never met or delt with before,and they have assured me that they will have no problem in assisting me.

maxpet

Bank of Ireland: Sean wrote: »

Dummy wrote: »

Bank of Ireland: Sean wrote: »

Hi D,

Lodgement ATMs have been introduced to reduce the queues in branch, once all our customers become accustomed to using them we hope it will speed up the whole process.  

When you use a lodgement ATM you are provided with a reference number on the receipt which relates to the card you used along with a copy of each cheque.  If a business customer has a couple of outlets or people lodging for them they will see on their statement the branch sorting code where the lodgement was made and the reference number of the card.  The copy of the cheque is not provided if you make the lodgement with a cashier.

We can assure you that Bank of Ireland values all their customers.  We are constantly looking at stream lining our services and investing in our branch network.  We will pass your feedback onto the branch network regarding these changes.

  
Thanks for posting

Seán

Seán,

Thank you for your reply.

However, you have said it yourself, that there is no unique number attached to the lodgement. It has the branch sort code & the reference number of the card on the receipt. At this time of year, I am going to the same bank almost every day, that I have gone to since 2001. A lodgement might be made up of 5 cheques or 10 cheques. What means is there for a small business to reconcile their bank at the end of the month with numerous entries on the statement that read 12349876? With our lodgement book, we were able to do this. Each lodgement had a unique lodgement number. This appears to be lost now with this new system. If I am correct, the bank rec will now probably take much longer & our audit fees could potentially increase. Even if we were able to key in a unique number of our own would help.

Copies of cheques are no use to a business. We are trying to reduce the paper we store, not increase it. It does not assist our accounting function at all.

Also, does such a technology system bring with it, a reduction in the fees that we are charged?

Seán, I will always be the first in the queue to embrace technological advances but I am struggling to see how this is going to help my business with it's banking needs.

Am I missing something here?


Rgds.

D.

Hi D,

As we said in our previous response, we will pass all your comments on regarding these changes.  In this instance we would suggest contacting your relationship manager in your branch to discuss this further as we are unable to discuss policy changes on a public forum.  They may be able to offer alternatives for your specific banking needs.

You can find the contact details for your branch here.

Thanks

Seán 

Hey Sean,


I was wondering could you let know what the policy for lodgement of cash is?
Is it Bank of Ireland policy that it will be compulsory to use the lodgement machine for lodging
cash for small business or could you provide a link where I can read the policy.

Cheer

Alan

Irish Steve

Dummy wrote: »

My local branch of Bank of Ireland has recently introduced a new policy for businesses lodging cheques. We have to use a machine if we are lodging under 15 cheques !!

So what's my gripe with this?

- It takes me longer to lodge. Lodging 9 cheques at the cashiers desk took 23 seconds. Lodging 7 cheques this morning by machine took 4.6 minutes. Not really a big thing, more an observation.

- My main gripe is that I have lost the ability to have a reference number (a lodgement number) that I can use for accounts. For a business customer, this generates major hassle in accounting for bank recs, audits etc. The only reference I can see is a date which is of no use in accounting (we have that already). Or am I missing something?

So my question, why is Bank of Ireland making it difficult for small business? Do you not want our money & would you prefer if we took our business elsewhere?

Rgds.

D.

I have been raising the same aggravation, and this week, had an example of why the unique reference is so critical, the LATM mis read the cheque that was being lodged, so the total according to the slip did not match the value of the lodgement, and the person making the lodgement did not recognise the mistake made by the reader.

Fortunately, the error was picked up in  the manual procedure considerably later in the day, and the correct value appeared on the statement, which is just as well, as once the cheque has been deposited, there is no proof at all of the value written on it, other than a pretty small scan of the item. I know from painful experience that the branches no longer reconcile to the penny these days, and I am not looking forward to the time when a query has to be raised about a lodgement where the prime document is no longer easily and readily available as evidence.

Where it will become more of an issue is that the lodgement slip does not match the lodgement value, and there is NOTHING other than the date to cross reference the slip to the statement, which I suspect will raise all manner of issues when the accountants come to look at the books at the year end. Short of making all manner of notes on either the statement, or the lodgement slip, making sure we know what happened so that we can explain it 12 months down the line could be "interesting".

There is also the minor issue that the printouts are thermal paper. I wonder how long the image on the paper will remain readable, having seen what can happen in some cases to thermal receipts, the response of Revenue if they are carrying out an in depth audit and the paper slips are no longer legible will be "interesting", given that records have to be retained for (I think) 7 years.

BOI (and their competitors, to be fair) are doing everything they can to discourage customers across the spectrum from using branches, and the way things are going, if the Ratoath branch is anything to go by, it won't be long before there are no counter transactions possible, everything will have to be done electronically, either using LATM's or online. The first time some contractor somewhere grubs out a fibre optic cable in the wrong place at the right time we shall all see just how short sighted that policy is, you only have to look at how long it took RBS/Uslter bank to recover from a hardware failure last year to realise just how vulnerable the brave new banking world is to even a relatively minor hardware failure. 

The reduction in counter services would possibly be more acceptable if the on line services were being enhanced in parallel, but the lack of enhancements in that area, especially in the business on line side of things is only woeful, there are so many things that just cannot be easily accomplished on line, it would be laughable if it wasn't so serious.

One way or another, I've been involved with banking at close levels since before decimalisation, and I was working behind the counters, so know what goes on at a much closer level than most, and to say that I am not impressed with what the banks in Ireland have managed to offer in the last 20 years would be putting it mildly, the fundamentals of operating a bank account haven't changed any, and with the better availability of connections to central computing, and the increase in power available compared to the early IBM 360 mainframes, it should have been a lot easier to provide a far more comprehensive and flexible service than what's available at present, it's not even fully real time, there is still a significant batch processing content, and for things like banking, batch processing should have gone out with the ark, but clearly, it hasn't, which is why there are still so many issues that they can't address adequately, despite the much greater power and availability of computers and interconnections that are now common.

Given that IT is such a fundamental core part of the operation, I am left wondering what they were spending all those obscene levels of profit on when they were making them not that long ago. It certainly wasn't on enhancing the customer experience, that's for sure, and now, they have cut back so dramatically on in house IT and systems, it's questionable if they have the capability to achieve a good service to the end user any more.


I'm not going to hold my breath on the chances of the regulatory bodies becoming involved with the day to day operations of the banks, they've shown a marked aversion to regulating that side of the industry, which is probably through lack of understanding, and fear of the consequences of getting involved in what could become a minefield in the not too distant future, especially if as reported today, the EU are going to stick their oar into banking and force through increases in costs for using a bank account that will impact the customer. 

What is even worse is that many of these changes happen with no information or advance warning to the people that are most affected by them, the customers.


The real frustration is that I know that many of the front line staff (those that are left) feel similar sentiments, though they have to be very cautious in how they express their dissatisfaction with the state of things.

Where is it going? i don't know, what I do know is that unless BOI starts to listen to and talk more with the customers, they will regret not doing so.

Steve

Cushie Butterfield

It does seem a bit silly that a bank implements a system that makes it harder for customers to reconcile their accounts! These machines are meant to streamline the banking process, not hinder it.

A simple solution would be to provide a 'narrative' option like the AIB lodgement machines so as the customer can key in a reference number as a narrative.  That way customers could devise their own set of reference/lodgement numbers & make it so much easier to reconcile accounts & a lot quicker to identify any discrepancies.

Bank of Ireland: Elaine

Hi All,
 
Thanks for taking the time to post.
 
We appreciate all feedback and we will pass your suggestions on to the relevant department for review.
 
Elaine 

maxpet

Bank of Ireland: Elaine wrote: »

Hi All,
 
Thanks for taking the time to post.
 
We appreciate all feedback and we will pass your suggestions on to the relevant department for review.
 
Elaine 

maxpet wrote: »

Bank of Ireland: Sean wrote: »

Dummy wrote: »

Bank of Ireland: Sean wrote: »

Hi D,

Lodgement ATMs have been introduced to reduce the queues in branch, once all our customers become accustomed to using them we hope it will speed up the whole process.  

When you use a lodgement ATM you are provided with a reference number on the receipt which relates to the card you used along with a copy of each cheque.  If a business customer has a couple of outlets or people lodging for them they will see on their statement the branch sorting code where the lodgement was made and the reference number of the card.  The copy of the cheque is not provided if you make the lodgement with a cashier.

We can assure you that Bank of Ireland values all their customers.  We are constantly looking at stream lining our services and investing in our branch network.  We will pass your feedback onto the branch network regarding these changes.

  
Thanks for posting

Seán

Seán,

Thank you for your reply.

However, you have said it yourself, that there is no unique number attached to the lodgement. It has the branch sort code & the reference number of the card on the receipt. At this time of year, I am going to the same bank almost every day, that I have gone to since 2001. A lodgement might be made up of 5 cheques or 10 cheques. What means is there for a small business to reconcile their bank at the end of the month with numerous entries on the statement that read 12349876? With our lodgement book, we were able to do this. Each lodgement had a unique lodgement number. This appears to be lost now with this new system. If I am correct, the bank rec will now probably take much longer & our audit fees could potentially increase. Even if we were able to key in a unique number of our own would help.

Copies of cheques are no use to a business. We are trying to reduce the paper we store, not increase it. It does not assist our accounting function at all.

Also, does such a technology system bring with it, a reduction in the fees that we are charged?

Seán, I will always be the first in the queue to embrace technological advances but I am struggling to see how this is going to help my business with it's banking needs.

Am I missing something here?


Rgds.

D.

Hi D,

As we said in our previous response, we will pass all your comments on regarding these changes.  In this instance we would suggest contacting your relationship manager in your branch to discuss this further as we are unable to discuss policy changes on a public forum.  They may be able to offer alternatives for your specific banking needs.

You can find the contact details for your branch here.

Thanks

Seán 

Hey Sean,


I was wondering could you let know what the policy for lodgement of cash is?
Is it Bank of Ireland policy that it will be compulsory to use the lodgement machine for lodging
cash for small business or could you provide a link where I can read the policy.

Cheer

Alan

Mine was a question not feedback??

Bank of Ireland: Paula C

Irish Steve wrote: »

I have been raising the same aggravation, and this week, had an example of why the unique reference is so critical, the LATM mis read the cheque that was being lodged, so the total according to the slip did not match the value of the lodgement, and the person making the lodgement did not recognise the mistake made by the reader.

Hi Irish Steve,
 
Thanks for your post.
 
When lodging cheques, the LATM will first read the cheque and ask the person to confirm the amount is correct. At this point if the amount stated is incorrect, the option to override and manually update the correct amount becomes available. As you correctly mentioned in your above post, there is a manual procedure for lodging cheques but it would be best for the person making these lodgements to double check the amount is correct prior to confirming the amount displayed on the device.
 
Maxpet, all feedback posted above on this thread has been forward on to the relevant department for review as we were highlighting in our previous post.
In relation to your query, if you are a business customer and lodging less than €3,000 in notes or less than 15 cheques you must use the lodgement ATM. For lodgements greater than this, you must contact your relationship manager or customer service manager who would be more than happy to discuss alternative options for you. All coin lodgements must be fully bagged and are only accepted Tuesdays between 10.00 - 12.00 and all day Friday.
 
You can pick up a leaflet in your branch the next time you are in which will explain this process in detail for you.
 
I hope this clarifies this for you, if we can help with anything else please do not hesitate to contact us.
 
Thanks,
 
Paula C
 

Tow

Bank of Ireland: Paula C wrote: »

if you are a business customer and lodging less than €3,000 in notes or less than 15 cheques you must use the lodgement ATM. For lodgements greater than this, you must contact your relationship manager or customer service manager who would be more than happy to discuss alternative options for you.

Hi Paula,

Our 'relationship manager's' solution to the LATM limits is to lodge the money in multiple batches.
You response would suggest this in not official BOI policy? 
Also, is there going to be an update to the machine's software to better handle different size cheques in the one batch?

Legislator

maxpet wrote: »

Bank of Ireland: Sean wrote: »

Dummy wrote: »

Bank of Ireland: Sean wrote: »

Hi D,

Lodgement ATMs have been introduced to reduce the queues in branch, once all our customers become accustomed to using them we hope it will speed up the whole process.  

When you use a lodgement ATM you are provided with a reference number on the receipt which relates to the card you used along with a copy of each cheque.  If a business customer has a couple of outlets or people lodging for them they will see on their statement the branch sorting code where the lodgement was made and the reference number of the card.  The copy of the cheque is not provided if you make the lodgement with a cashier.

We can assure you that Bank of Ireland values all their customers.  We are constantly looking at stream lining our services and investing in our branch network.  We will pass your feedback onto the branch network regarding these changes.

  
Thanks for posting

Seán

Seán,

Thank you for your reply.

However, you have said it yourself, that there is no unique number attached to the lodgement. It has the branch sort code & the reference number of the card on the receipt. At this time of year, I am going to the same bank almost every day, that I have gone to since 2001. A lodgement might be made up of 5 cheques or 10 cheques. What means is there for a small business to reconcile their bank at the end of the month with numerous entries on the statement that read 12349876? With our lodgement book, we were able to do this. Each lodgement had a unique lodgement number. This appears to be lost now with this new system. If I am correct, the bank rec will now probably take much longer & our audit fees could potentially increase. Even if we were able to key in a unique number of our own would help.

Copies of cheques are no use to a business. We are trying to reduce the paper we store, not increase it. It does not assist our accounting function at all.

Also, does such a technology system bring with it, a reduction in the fees that we are charged?

Seán, I will always be the first in the queue to embrace technological advances but I am struggling to see how this is going to help my business with it's banking needs.

Am I missing something here?


Rgds.

D.

Hi D,

As we said in our previous response, we will pass all your comments on regarding these changes.  In this instance we would suggest contacting your relationship manager in your branch to discuss this further as we are unable to discuss policy changes on a public forum.  They may be able to offer alternatives for your specific banking needs.

You can find the contact details for your branch here.

Thanks

Seán 

Hey Sean,


I was wondering could you let know what the policy for lodgement of cash is?
Is it Bank of Ireland policy that it will be compulsory to use the lodgement machine for lodging
cash for small business or could you provide a link where I can read the policy.

Cheer

Alan

Why does anybody want to go to a bank to queue for a cashier or a machine when most if not all of these transactions can be received electronically. Have your debtors pay you electronically which mean you don't have to visit the bank, you have immediate access to funds (no 5 day clearing cycle) or in most cases its cheaper.  
All businesses (SME's) should make their 2104 NY resolution to move to electronic.

Bank of Ireland: Paula C

Hi Tow,

Thanks for your post.

Your relationship manager will be happy to discuss this policy in more detail with you, the alternative options that may be available to business customers are very much account specific and will depend on the customer’s requirements. Should you wish to discuss this please contact your account holding branch directly. Branch details can be found here.


Thanks,

Paula C

Tow

Legislator wrote: »

Why does anybody want to go to a bank to queue for a cashier or a machine when most if not all of these transactions can be received electronically.

Due to a historic feature of how BOI's systems handle credits transactions, they swap the two narrative fields on each transaction.
This means they we cannot easily identify where credits come from. For example, every day we get credits into our account with our company's name as the narrative on the statement, as this is the senders own reference for us, or we get their accounts systems internal supplier/transaction number for us. This of course is no use to us, a cheque is better, at least a name is written on it.

At this stage our only hope is SEPA and that BOI is going to fully implement SEPA, not just be 'SEPA Ready' which involves taking half of the SEPA 'End to End' field and sticking it in the statement narrative. What is the point on having a system which can send full invoice information with each transaction, but limiting what the end customer can see to 18 characters? Much the same as the difference between a Full HD TV and a HD Ready TV!

Tow

Bank of Ireland: Paula C wrote: »

Your relationship manager will be happy to discuss this policy in more detail with you, the alternative options that may be available to business customers are very much account specific and will depend on the customer’s requirements.
Paula C

We have Paula, and they just point at the machine. But my wife has it down pat for her business account, in Dundrum the AIB is next door and the staff know the story.

Legislator

Tow wrote: »

Legislator wrote: »

Why does anybody want to go to a bank to queue for a cashier or a machine when most if not all of these transactions can be received electronically.

Due to a historic feature of how BOI's systems handle credits transactions, they swap the two narrative fields on each transaction.
This means they we cannot easily identify where credits come from.  For example, every day we get credits into our account with our company's name as the narrative on the statement, as this is the senders own reference for us, or we get their accounts systems internal supplier/transaction number for us.  This of course is no use to us, a cheque is better, at least a name is written on it.

At this stage our only hope is SEPA and that BOI is going to fully implement SEPA, not just be 'SEPA Ready' which involves taking half of the SEPA 'End to End' field and sticking it in the statement narrative.  What is the point on having a system which can send full invoice information with each transaction, but limiting what the end customer can see to 18 characters?  Much the same as the difference between a Full HD TV and a HD Ready TV!

Go to a bank that will meet your full requirements

vickers209

Company i work for also has these problems, you cant be expected to stand at a machine with 2k to lodge in €5 or €10 notes.

Solution: Bang the lodgement  into the night safe and collect lodgement book and bag next day simples :pac: 

Been working grand for us for last 2 months but there a day behind lately so if you lodge on Wednesday it may  be Friday before the bank opens it

Retailer

BOI annoyed me so much with these changes that I now lodge all my takings into a personal account that I set up especially. I then transfer that electronically to my business bank account.

The result is that a €1000 lodgement now for example costs around 40c for the transfers as opposed to up to €25 if it were all coins lodging directly to y business account. Since the changes were made back in April or so, I have saved a few thousand in charges. My accountant is happy so long as I am keeping full records