Donegal GAA Discussion Thread

Bonniedog

PressRun wrote: »

They're not my boys.

Believe it or not, not every team takes winning the league as seriously as Dublin do. Donegal hardly even looked like they wanted to be there today. Both Rory Gallagher and Jim Gavin seemed to acknowledge in their post-match interviews too that Donegal minds may well have been elsewhere. Like I said, whether that's right or wrong is a different matter.

Dublin have won the league 6 times in last 50 years. Won Sam 8 times I think. Same years mostly. You can't be bad in April and turn up in July!

Same with Kerry and the Cats.


Not slagging Donegal but notion they lose games on purpose is bollix.

And as someone else said, if that is their attitude then it is insult to the people who pay good money to watch them. If I thought that a Dublin team were going out to lose it would be last time I'd darken the door of Parnell Park.

corny

PressRun wrote: »

They're not my boys.

Believe it or not, not every team takes winning the league as seriously as Dublin do. Donegal hardly even looked like they wanted to be there today. Both Rory Gallagher and Jim Gavin seemed to acknowledge in their post-match interviews too that Donegal minds may well have been elsewhere. Like I said, whether that's right or wrong is a different matter.

Yeah I agree. I think the difference in approach is explained by what we face in Leinster/Ulster. Dublin are tested more by the latter stages of the League than the Leinster Championship. That's sad but probably true. As such its more important to them they test themselves. The Ulster championship by contrast takes its toll so you'd imagine there's little appetite to make a tough campaign tougher.

Like you said who comes out best come August, on the back of this, is up for debate.

Fr Tod Umptious

Bonniedog wrote: »

Dublin have won the league 6 times in last 50 years. Won Sam 8 times I think. Same years mostly. You can't be bad in April and turn up in July!

Same with Kerry and the Cats.


Not slagging Donegal but notion they lose games on purpose is bollix.

Your right, it is bollix.
None getting to a league SF is going to lose it on purpose.

A lot of established teams like Donegal, Kerry, Mayo, Dublin may not he too pushed if they make the SF or not, but once there they want to win it.

Donegals form is just cat right now, they have lost 5 in a row, no one wants that form coming into the start of the championship, no matter how much they will try to convince you otherwise

PressRun

Bonniedog wrote: »

Dublin have won the league 6 times in last 50 years. Won Sam 8 times I think. Same years mostly. You can't be bad in April and turn up in July!

Same with Kerry and the Cats.


Not slagging Donegal but notion they lose games on purpose is bollix.

I didn't say they lost it on purpose, but they didn't seem to have any discernable plan to ensure that they would have a real chance at winning. The approach seemed to be "We'll go out and do our best and see what happens". Donegal supposedly didn't train together once this week (someone more in the know might be able to confirm that). Both Jim Gavin and Rory Gallagher said in post-match interviews that Donegal more than likely have an eye on the championship. If we were in July or August, I imagine the tactics might be a bit different. Given the history of teams not being all that interested in the league, it can hardly be that surprising to you that a team might not be putting in the same amount of time and effort that they might do later in the year.

And you're correct about the correlation between Dublin's league success and championship succes, but as I said, for the third time, whether certain teams taking a not-so-serious approach to the league is correct or not is a whole other debate.

Now, do I think Donegal are the same team they were under McGuinness? Perhaps not. I think they looked a lot more measured under him. But do I think they'll still have something to say in the championship? Absolutely, because at the end of the day, I think that's probably all they care about.

PressRun

corny wrote: »

Yeah I agree. I think the difference in approach is explained by what we face in Leinster/Ulster. Dublin are tested more by the latter stages of the League than the Leinster Championship. That's sad but probably true. As such its more important to them they test themselves. The Ulster championship by contrast takes its toll so you'd imagine there's little appetite to make a tough campaign tougher.

Like you said who comes out best come August, on the back of this, is up for debate.

Agreed. Dublin are unlikely to get a tough match in the championship until late July/August, and so challenging themselves in the league becomes a priority. Contrastingly, with Ulster being the most competitive province, every match is going to be tough, so perhaps Ulster teams are more inclined to do things with one an eye on that. Perhaps there's some lesson in how Dublin do things - does winning the league create a winners mentality, does taking it seriously prepare you better, etc. But then, if Leinster was a battle for Dublin in the way that Ulster is for the northern teams, would they be as interested in the league? Completely speculative.

corny

Just checked...the year Donegal won the AI they also finished on 6 points, didn't make the semis, were beaten by Laois:eek: and were walloped by Kerry. Say what you will about their current state but its undeniable they've a history of half arseing the league.

windy shepard henderson

corny wrote: »

Just checked...the year Donegal won the AI they also finished on 6 points, didn't make the semis, were beaten by Laois:eek: and were walloped by Kerry. Say what you will about their current state but its undeniable they've a history of half arseing the league.

to be fair for donegal today was more about full filling a fixture with the mine field of the ulster championship awaiting them , dublin probably wont be tested again after the league final until the all ireland 1/4 final

what makes it a haf arseing league is the fact one provincial championship is stronger then the other , so teams approach it differently ,

Ceist_Beag

Stoner wrote: »

Would have been closer if Murphy had his shooting boots with him.

It wasn't just his shooting, his passing and general decision making was way off yesterday, very unlike him.
So in our last 3 matches, our second half performances have been:
Dublin (during league) lost second half 1-4 to 0-3
Monaghan lost second half 06 - 02
Dublin (semi final) lost second half 1-10 to 0-6

... let's hope it's all down to some heavy lifting on the training pitch!

Bonniedog

corny wrote: »

Just checked...the year Donegal won the AI they also finished on 6 points, didn't make the semis, were beaten by Laois:eek: and were walloped by Kerry. Say what you will about their current state but its undeniable they've a history of half arseing the league.

I had checked that myself but didn't mention it as it undermined my argument :eek::eek:


Fair enough. no-one doubts that Ulster is a totally different proposition to Leinster. Donegal will need to be up and running in just over a month. Dublin could nearly put me in corner forward and get to AI quarter final.


I do think, however, that Dublin learned a huge amount about themselves and Donegal in 2014 and where McGuinness outwitted Gavin then, I think RG is genuinely flummoxed as how to beat Dublin..

But, we shall see. Have little doubt we shall meet again. Good luck my chums!

Ceist_Beag

Bonniedog wrote: »

I think RG is genuinely flummoxed as how to beat Dublin.

In fairness to RG he's in good company there. Let's not for one second suggest that RG is the main reason Donegal lost yesterday - this is an exceptional Dublin team that will take some stopping again this year.

Bonniedog

Ceist_Beag wrote: »

In fairness to RG he's in good company there. Let's not for one second suggest that RG is the main reason Donegal lost yesterday - this is an exceptional Dublin team that will take some stopping again this year.

Not suggesting it is on RG at all!

It is exceptional Dublin team. Been watching them for over 40 years and beyond doubt they are the best ever team to wear the blue jersey.

Donegal are without doubt one of three teams that might beat them. Maybe even the most likely.

harpsman

squareball1988 wrote: »

Met a few honest Dubs in a pub afterwards. They put a point to me that we've a great team. Man for man we're Top 4 by any metric. They had obvious problems with our style, but as I reminded them it has been very effective to date, but said we've a team capable of going out and giving every match a decent go by playing "proper" football. Says I that we can't cos we've Ulster to win. And "proper" football isn't something that will win Ulster for you. I also argued their use of "proper".

But even if we decided change our style is Rory the man to do it for us? It doesn't matter who else would or wouldn't replace him but I've given it enough thought to believe that he isn't the man for us.

Too many McHughs on the panel too. and I'm not talking about players.

Stephen McBrearty gave a decent performance too. He'll have a good Ulster.

I have to say I find nothing more boring than Dublin supporters talking about the correct way to play the game. Im glad you took issue with them.

harpsman

PressRun wrote: »

I didn't say they lost it on purpose, but they didn't seem to have any discernable plan to ensure that they would have a real chance at winning. The approach seemed to be "We'll go out and do our best and see what happens". Donegal supposedly didn't train together once this week (someone more in the know might be able to confirm that). Both Jim Gavin and Rory Gallagher said in post-match interviews that Donegal more than likely have an eye on the championship. If we were in July or August, I imagine the tactics might be a bit different. Given the history of teams not being all that interested in the league, it can hardly be that surprising to you that a team might not be putting in the same amount of time and effort that they might do later in the year.

And you're correct about the correlation between Dublin's league success and championship succes, but as I said, for the third time, whether certain teams taking a not-so-serious approach to the league is correct or not is a whole other debate.

Now, do I think Donegal are the same team they were under McGuinness? Perhaps not. I think they looked a lot more measured under him. But do I think they'll still have something to say in the championship? Absolutely, because at the end of the day, I think that's probably all they care about.

It seems a few visitors to the thread struggling to understand very basic English and taking it a bit personally that some teams happy to go throught the motions in some league games. Not to worry

Bonniedog

harpsman wrote: »

It seems a few visitors to the thread struggling to understand very basic English and taking it a bit personally that some teams happy to go throught the motions in some league games. Not to worry

Whatever keeps you going.

Primo Levi is good on the whole thing about confronting despair

Seriously, its April and its only the league.

Nidgeweasel

Nobody is suggesting Donegal lost on purpose or threw the game.

What people are rightly saying is it's blatantly obvious the current (and previous as it happens) regime doesn't give two hoots about the league.

They had a semi final yesterday and didn't train last week.

Stoner

Nidgeweasel wrote:

What people are rightly saying is it's blatantly obvious the current (and previous as it happens) regime doesn't give two hoots about the league.

That's a fair point.
I think the argument is bigger than Donegal and Dublin. Mayos attitude to the league has been questioned too.
It is IMO a competition to target, the alternative is to have a silver bullet to fire once later on in the year.

I remember winning the league in the early 1990s under Paddy Cullen it was a great feeling. I remember Donegal and Dublin playing in a high stake league final back around the too possibly 93.
They were good days, I'd rather they were back and to be honest anyone who was at the games in early 1990s and yesterday from both our counties would likely agree.

Bonniedog

Good teams go out to win every thing. Ask Cody. Anyone think he goes into the dressing room before a league semi final and tells the boys to go out and have a bit of crack and not to mind whether they win or lose? He does in his bollix.

I remember when Dublin wouldn't have gotten a kick in a stampede and there were people close to then then management saying they didn't care about the league, and sure it was only March, and sure they'd be flying in August.

Then having their arses handed to them on a plate by whoever got first digs on them.

I prefer the JG way myself.

Nidgeweasel

Bonniedog wrote: »

Good teams go out to win every thing. Ask Cody. Anyone think he goes into the dressing room before a league semi final and tells the boys to go out and have a bit of crack and not to mind whether they win or lose? He does in his bollix.

I remember when Dublin wouldn't have gotten a kick in a stampede and there were people close to then then management saying they didn't care about the league, and sure it was only March, and sure they'd be flying in August.

Then having their arses handed to them on a plate by whoever got first digs on them.

I prefer the JG way myself.

That's your opinion. It's horses for courses for me.

Donegal have neither the strength in depth nor the age profile to go hard early.

Dublin do. Kilkenny do.

They also have a front loaded Championship where they need to be on it from the first round.

Dublin don't. Kilkenny don't.

It's clear that once survival was guaranteed (first 3 wins) they were happy to go through the motions.

bob skunkhouse

I'm afraid I disagree with a lot of the comments here suggesting they went out with a half arsed, laissez faire approach to yesterday's game. Granted the Ulster championship and hunt for Sam is the number one priority for RG and the team, but this was a national football league SF. Our next competitive game isn't until June 12th which is almost 2 months away and there's no better way to prepare for that run than have full-on competitive games.

The reason we lost yesterday's game wasn't because of a half baked attitude or Murphy's inaccuracies, it was more to do with the quality of players we have and the tactics we employ those players to do. How many times did we see RK get dispossessed or run into blind alleys? Did OmacN contribute anything to the game (indeed the last few games)? How many silly high balls did we thump into the FF line only for the dubs backs clean up and start an attack? How many times did Cluxton find a Dublin player in an acre of space, contrast that with our our kickouts. Did we have a plan at all? Why the persistence with CMCF? No harm to the guy - he's done his tour - but he hasn't played a decent game of football for us in over two years imo. His first action yesterday was to pick up a silly booking! Simple fact is, we can't continue to play a blanket defense when we don't have the mobility up front of the runners off the shoulder to make us an effective attacking unit anymore. How many scores from play did we get yesterday (4). This isn't good enough for us to be considered anywhere near serious in the months ahead.

bob skunkhouse

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

They also have a front loaded Championship where they need to be on it from the first round.

Our first game of the championship isn't until the glorious 12th! That's 2 months away and against an average Fermanagh team or weaker Antrim team.

Even if we did win yesterday and made it to the final, that gives us 7 weeks till our first championship game. There's more than ample time there to do what you need on the training pitch and give the league a decent rattle.

overshoot

bob skunkhouse wrote: »

Our first game of the championship isn't until the glorious 12th! That's 2 months away and against an average Fermanagh team or weaker Antrim team.

Even if we did win yesterday and made it to the final, that gives us 7 weeks till our first championship game. There's more than ample time there to do what you need on the training pitch and give the league a decent rattle.

I think its more to do with fitness levels rather than general tactics. I hope its a case of Rory protecting some of the older lads from burnout later in the year and that is why we have fallen behind particularly second half.

Time will tell... but I do have grave reservations

Nidgeweasel

overshoot wrote: »

I think its more to do with fitness levels rather than general tactics. I hope its a case of Rory protecting some of the older lads from burnout later in the year and that is why we have fallen behind particularly second half.

Time will tell... but I do have grave reservations

They were running on fumes last year because he went too hard too soon and used the players who shouldn't have been playing. I was saying the writing was on the wall from March and we went out of the championship in pretty much the fashion I thought we would.

This year he's secured safety early and then they've noticeably wound down. Now, whether doing so is right or wrong (and you can make arguments for both) the fact of the matter is as a result they are rolling into championship on a 5 match losing streak.

Even with going through the motions the defeats have been worrying, riddled with indiscipline (Kerry), sluggish (Roscommon), pathetic tactics (Dublin) and being out fought (Monaghan). Noticeably ran out of fumes in all four of those games too.

I actually think we could have beaten Dublin in the league game had we been anyway focused, they weren't overly fussed that night but we were embarrassing. We were 7 points up against Monaghan and contrived to lose by 1. I daresay the rossies would have gotten anything had we needed a result.

There wasn't a prayer we'd have beaten a switched on Dublin yesterday on the back of those 4 losses and with no discernible style of play/tactics. It was a very professional Dublin performance. They did what they had to do very well and also got another bit of practice playing in a defensive-ish game. Although I wouldn't take much change from the result running into the summer it was still a useful run for them. Meanwhile Donegal had the week off.

So we're now in the situation that 1) our lack of emphasis on the league means we've lost 5/8 games, 2) we've seen absolutely nothing by way of tactics displayed and the line slow to react as usual and 3) the players aren't where they need to be fitness wise.

1) and 3) will be sorted by June 12th imo. We know how our boys feel about the Championship. In terms of fitness/training it was the same last year. They were quite clear about going through the motions v Cork, getting the league put to bed to focus on Ulster.

The biggest worry remains over the management. Of course there's an element of keeping your powder dry. But there's keeping your powder dry and then there's the complete and utter sh*te we've seen during the league. Set up, performance levels, changes. A mess.

We've just got to let them get on with it now for the next 8 weeks. See what happens but the fact we have no clue what he really wants to do with these players (and I'm sure the players don't either) is cause for concern.

Stoner

Nidgeweasel wrote:

Dublin do. Kilkenny do.

Let's be honest , Kilkenny have to show up against Dublin and Galway in the hurling. Ulster is strong, etc but the likes of Cavan and Monaghan, Fermanagh, Down, Derry have yet to demonstrate that they can produce outside of beating Donegal or Tyrone to any significant degree. Monaghan melt against Kerry and Dublin imo.

With the greatest respect to those teams and I sure they are capable of making up ground, but Mayo, Kerry, Dublin and the cork team of three years ago were really only worried about meeting Donegal or Tyrone. It's tough to get out of yes full of all Ireland winning teams , imo no.

overshoot

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

Even with going through the motions the defeats have been worrying, riddled with indiscipline (Kerry), sluggish (Roscommon), pathetic tactics (Dublin) and being out fought (Monaghan). Noticeably ran out of fumes in all four of those games too.

2) we've seen absolutely nothing by way of tactics displayed and the line slow to react as usual and 3)

thats where my reservations come from! with Jim you always knew he was at some strange tactical trial. Neil Gallagher at full forward v tyrone in Omagh, having no one in the middle third for kickouts in the draw v Meath in Ballybofey stand out. I can live with experiments failing. Rory has given lots of young lads a run out but just dont have the same feeling of trial and error.
The lack of discipline both in the tackle and general defense isnt something that can be so easily remedied either.
Plus looking at the championship last year, outside of Armagh we were poor... and look how Armagh have done since...

Bonniedog

Donegal beat Dublin in 2014 and won All Ireland in 2012 because they had the players and an excellent game plan. And one of the master minds of football on the line. Bar none.

JG learned huge lesson in 2014. Had his bottom handed to him tactically. Since then, the Dubs have set up basketball type full court press. Defend from the opposition 40. Pick off the chances and draw fouls.

Who did he learn it from? The men from the hills! This year - probably not hopefully! - someone will come with a better plan. Like your boy in Errigal Ciarans studying it all behind his glasses and two day stubble :-)

Nidgeweasel

Stoner wrote: »

Let's be honest , Kilkenny have to show up against Dublin and Galway in the hurling. Ulster is strong, etc but the likes of Cavan and Monaghan, Fermanagh, Down, Derry have yet to demonstrate that they can produce outside of beating Donegal or Tyrone to any significant degree. Monaghan melt against Kerry and Dublin imo.

With the greatest respect to those teams and I sure they are capable of making up ground, but Mayo, Kerry, Dublin and the cork team of three years ago were really only worried about meeting Donegal or Tyrone. It's tough to get out of yes full of all Ireland winning teams , imo no.

To be honest, I totally forgot about Galway and Dublin in Leinster. My view is outdated.

Regarding the 'quality' in Ulster. You're right, it's less than glowing but it's more to do with the physical approach and the (quite honestly) horrendous games that you are subject too rather than the quality of opposition.

Last year for example Donegal played Tyrone, Armagh, Derry, Monaghan. In championship football. They were bucked after it. None of those teams are realistic AI contenders (even Tyrone) but it's a much more difficult route than any other province purely on the attritional and physical nature of the games. So you need to be in prime condition mentally and physically for the first day out or you will be in trouble.

PressRun

Ulster is a slog. The other provincials aren't. That's the bottom line really.

babybuilder

PressRun wrote: »

Ulster is a slog. The other provincials aren't. That's the bottom line really.

Even more reason to be getting your act together pretty soon.

PressRun

babybuilder wrote: »

Even more reason to be getting your act together pretty soon.

I think to them 'getting your act together' means going back into training and prep for the championship rather than worrying about the latter stages of the league.

Nidgeweasel

Pappa will not play in the Championship if he is based in Qatar.

By the sounds of it he's weighing up if he can come back.

He has nothing left to prove and owes us nothing. My god what a boost it would be though.