Donegal GAA Discussion Thread

North of 32

No one else seems to agree with Brolly about there being a reasonable case for Michael Murphy being the most influential player in Gaelic football. The enormously unlikeable Colm O'Rourke said the suggestion was "really stupid" and chirped out the words "Colm Cooper" like a broken record. Colm Cooper, one of the greatest players of all time, but who hasn't championship football since 2013.

Michael Murphy is quite obviously one of the most influential players in the game, if not the most. Brolly wasn't suggesting he was the best, just that he was the most influential. Such a suggestion is debatable but it's clearly not "really stupid". Why is there always such a reluctance to admit to the quality of Donegal's footballers?

Frank McGlynn was a few mistakes short of a masterclass yesterday. Paul Durcan continues as one of the best goalkeepers in football while Neil McGee was arguably the best player in the country last year. We have fine talents like Odhrán Mac Niallais who doesn't get half the praise the likes of Johnny Buckley would get, and we've excellent footballers like Christy Toye who would contribute to any team.

There's clearly no question that Michael Murphy is one of the most influential players in the game at them minute. Someone could reasonably advance a case on him being the most influential.

HighKing33

I actually felt Murphy was kept relatively quiet by McMahon yet he still managed to win the game for you. That probably validates your point and also, it was a stonewall penalty, pulled down in the box.

Also worth noting that he won Donegal's All-Ireland in 2012 playing on the edge of the square. Fast forward to 2014 and McGuinness is instructing Gallagher to make forays into the full-forward line and look for the high ball. That says it all really.

Redsoxfan

Honestly, who cares what they say on The Sunday Game anymore. It's essentially three trolls.

Whatever point Brolly was trying to make, he was exaggerating. He said that Gooch wasn't the most influential player because look at the Kerry teams he played on while Michael played with nothing. Absolute rubbish and an underhanded insult to the likes of Neil McGee, Frank, Lacey, Big Neil etc.

And of course, the other overreact to Joe and we have a scene. Clowns.

Michael was kept quiet yesterday but hardly a surprise when McMahon had no interest in anything but Michael. Hats off to him to be honest, if Eamonn McGee had done likewise to Donaghy last September we would hail him as a hero. Still, despite all the close attention and little impact from play, he landed the scores that won us the game.

HighKing33

True, but if Murphy was pulled down like that in September you would have had a penalty.

RGM

North of 32 wrote: »

Frank McGlynn was a few mistakes short of a masterclass yesterday.

Underrated, at least outside the county. Truth is there are few players on the team that seem as comfortable with the ball as Frank and few that have his quickness.

Alvin Holler

That pass to mcelhinney was a thing of beauty. Thought himself and Lacey really drove us forward.

Great to see McFadden and Durcan on top form. Thought Mark McHugh did well when he came on.

Hopefully we can get more from Ryan McHugh and McNiallais next time.

Ceist_Beag

Looking back at the game last night, that last point from Paddy in the second half was brilliant in that it showed just how hard it must be to be a forward in Ulster. He was blocked/held/stopped from making runs all day but you could see in that move that he got himself free for just a second and it was enough to get away from his man to make the run to take the pass and knock over the point. You could see his man desperately trying to grab him just before he received the pass but fall at Paddys heels - it was beautiful! The easy part for Paddy was knocking over the point once he got the ball!

Nidgeweasel

Redsoxfan wrote: »

It’s hard to know who to blame for the goal – it was either Paddy (who was meant to be marking McCurry) or Ryan McHugh (who let him run in behind him). I am not convinced by Ryan as a defender at all. Thompson coming back would solve two problems as Ryan could move up to where he is more effective and Marty O’Reilly could drop out – I don’t feel he offered much although maybe the early yellow had an impact.

McHugh for me. Your man or not your man, you have got to be switched on to the space around you. It wasn't a particular incisive move, just a simple ball into an absolute gallon of space and McHugh junior caught ball watching. Was a shocker to give a way. Really cheap. Not often we see them though.

He's not a defender and his inclusion in there would worry me. A weak link, the same for Mark. This is where someone like Declan Walsh is badly needed to give us another option.

Stoner

All the same as an outsider looking in, you'd have to say that Donegal look very good this year. All the old performers are playing well again IMHO, McFadden, Lacey etc. The younger lads have come on, you are in better shape than this time last year IMHO. With the exception of maybe Gallagher most of the squad as good as they have on the past.

Nidgeweasel

Stoner wrote: »

All the same as an outsider looking in, you'd have to say that Donegal look very good this year. All the old performers are playing well again IMHO, McFadden, Lacey etc. The younger lads have come on, you are in better shape than this time last year IMHO. With the exception of maybe Gallagher most of the squad as good as they have on the past.

I'm not so sure.

Last year we had McGuinness. This year we don't. That in itself means we're considerably weaker.

We've lost Leo McLoone and Rory Kavanagh, two guaranteed starters. Not to mention useful squad players in Declan Walsh and the brick, We haven't blooded in as many younger players as we'd have liked and in any event the quality isn't there in a lot of them.

If you mean physical shape, I don't think we're in that much better a position than last year, there are less question marks over us but the hullabaloo from last year was outside the county and people who didn't know what had happened the previous year. I think we've played at a steady consistent level throughout the league but we have been very reliant on a lot of our older players who have played a lot of minutes this year and that, in the end, I fear will be our downfall.

We are a solid top 3/4 outfit but I don't think we have the quality from 1-15 or the freshness in the squad to push us on and be realistic contenders. I expect us to come a cropper beaten by younger/fresher outfit around August time.

I will be ecstatic to be proved wrong.

Redsoxfan

Spot on Nidge. At no stage in the second half on Sunday did I feel comfortable. That just wasn't the way under Jim.

eddie73

Im not sure I agree with the above comments. Donegal looked good for most of the 2nd half, bar the 2 early points that tyrone got. Thereafter, it was more or less a game that tyrone couldnt finish off, and if they were still out there, they would not have gotten more than a sprinkling of scores. I think that the issues that have been highlighted are the defensive mistake that lead to the goal, and a few other passages of play in the first half that carved us up. This is all stuff to be worked on. Specifics, I would say that I expect armagh to run at us, as it is when tyrone did this that they caused us most problems. It is when they tried to recycle the ball laterally that we managed to get comfortable again. Pace and direct running are what will do most damage, and this is true for most teams, not just us. Paddy MCGrath has lost a bit of form, but in the 2nd half he was very steady. Lacey is back to his best, although he can get turned over when he runs into traffic inside his own 50 which is not good. Ryan mcHugh too needs to be played more as an attacker than a defender, as he is not strong enough to dispossess a larger player. That is about the height of our weakness from the game on sunday. WIll we improve?? time will tell, but Armagh will be a huge test. There is no doubt that there will be skin and hair flying in the athletic grounds.

Ceist_Beag

I'm somewhere between Nidge and Eddie on our outlook but tbh I'm more in agreement with Nidge on our chances this year. However I wasn't quite as concerned about the second half on Sunday as the lads - I still felt we were dictating most of the terms in the game. I'd be absolutely delighted with another Ulster title but I really fear Armagh in their own patch - it's not a happy hunting ground for us. If we're still in the mix come August then who knows - it's all on the day at that stage. However I do think overall we're not as well placed this year as we were last year and my expectation is lower as a result.

Nidgeweasel

Re: Sunday. I never thought we'd get beat. Always knew we had enough to just push on. Like the Armagh game last game. Just think generally speaking we're short in a few areas and the age profile of some of ours would worry me. Like in the next 18 months or so we're looking at a fairly hefty exodus. Players like Colm Anthony and Christy. Then Eamon (Vote yes) and the likes of Karl. That's a debate and a dilemma for another day though. Hopefully we can motor on and maybe get something by way of an Ulster championship in the bag before that.

One thing to mention I suppose is we have a clean break now for a month. Can only help.

Armagh is going to be no picnic. At the risk of being told I need to moderate my opinion, I absolutely hate them. And I make no apologies for it. The thoughts of losing to them, there and to him turns my stomach.

K-9

It was nervy enough at the end though. I'd echo what has been said but add that Murphy inside wasn't working, nobody was alive or near enough for the second ball. I didn't think we were that great in midfield either plus that goal was telegraphed just before that but Tyrone didn't spot it.

I don't think we learned anything particularly knew but it's good to see Paddy in such great form and having another option for Colm. McElhinney was excellent first half, we need more of that to combat the apparent squad problems.

bob skunkhouse

I thought we played fantastic football in the first half. Some of the points were things of beauty and my personal MOTM would have been McGlynn. The amount of ground that man covers is unbelievable. I thought we reverted to fairly crap football in the second half with a suspicion of panic displayed by the players. Around the 55/60min mark a few of them were visibly out on their feet. Given the amount of running they did I'm not surprised but I think it's something management should consider - earlier subs, or more of them - just to keep the pressure on the opponents.

There was plenty of niggle in the game, but despite the number of cards dished out, I didn't think it was particularly dirty. Couple of off the ball messing, but nothing that you wouldn't see in many a game. I was very close the the tunnel incident and nothing more than pulling and dragging. Be surprised if the UC take any action on this.

Gallagher's dismissal was stupid in the extreme. I actually thought he was victim but when I watched it back last night he's shown to make a grab at Cavanagh's hand, so guilty as charged. Sean Cav dismissal given his experience was even more than stupid! I wonder would the result be any different if he'd a stayed on?

Slight digression from the game - I listened to Cavanagh's interview with Mat Cooper last evening and thought he could have used to the forum to deflect the stick beating that Ulster football is getting lately. There was plenty of 'sledging' in Sunday's game, but it's not confined to Ulster. He could have thrown out an example or two where he's witnessed other counties at it too.

eddie73

Maybe Cavanagh is correct about ulster being the worst. Sometimes it is hard to accept the truth. Coulter said the same on the sunday game. We really need to be honest about this.

Nidgeweasel

Championship this weekend.

Gaoth Dobhair v Glenswilly the pick for me.

HighKing33

eddie73 wrote: »

Maybe Cavanagh is correct about ulster being the worst. Sometimes it is hard to accept the truth. Coulter said the same on the sunday game. We really need to be honest about this.

Still better than Leinster. Let's be honest we're looking at one stand-out team in each province - Donegal, Dublin, Mayo, Kerry.

ghostfacekilla

Sad state of affairs if there's truth in the claim that two tyrone players mocked Donegal minor captain Michael O Cearbhuil's fathers death from cancer during the weekend's game and his father being an ex county player himself.

eddie73

HighKing33 wrote: »

Still better than Leinster. Let's be honest we're looking at one stand-out team in each province - Donegal, Dublin, Mayo, Kerry.

I didnt mean worst in terms of football quality or competitiveness. I meant that ranks lowest in terms of appeal

North of 32

eddie73 wrote: »

I didnt mean worst in terms of football quality or competitiveness. I meant that ranks lowest in terms of appeal

MacCumhail Park was at capacity against Tyrone. The Athletic Grounds will probably be similar.

The attendance numbers are high. That suggests appeal to me.

Ceist_Beag

ghostfacekilla wrote: »

Sad state of affairs if there's truth in the claim that two tyrone players mocked Donegal minor captain Michael O Cearbhuil's fathers death from cancer during the weekend's game and his father being an ex county player himself.

Jesus that's truly shocking if true. I do think sledging is worse in Ulster than anywhere else but the difficulty is that it's very hard to stamp it out unless players and management take the initiative. There is very little referees can do about it unless a player was stupid enough to say it within earshot of a ref. It's depressing if minors are stooping to this level - there's some mountain to climb to stamp out the culture if lads as young as 16/17 are at this craic.

Ceist_Beag

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

Championship this weekend.

Gaoth Dobhair v Glenswilly the pick for me.

What's the story with the championship this year - will they try and get another match in before Armagh?

intellectual dosser

Ceist_Beag wrote: »

Jesus that's truly shocking if true. I do think sledging is worse in Ulster than anywhere else but the difficulty is that it's very hard to stamp it out unless players and management take the initiative. There is very little referees can do about it unless a player was stupid enough to say it within earshot of a ref. It's depressing if minors are stooping to this level - there's some mountain to climb to stamp out the culture if lads as young as 16/17 are at this craic.

I think that if a referee, linesman or umpire observe any sledging then it should be an immediate yellow card, no warnings. There is no drawing a line between banter and something horribly personal, in order to counteract it all needs to be clamped down on.

This is one of the areas where we must recognise that the players are amateurs with Mon-Fri jobs. They deserve better than to spend their Sundays having personal abuse hurled at them.

Redsoxfan

Ceist_Beag wrote: »

What's the story with the championship this year - will they try and get another match in before Armagh?

No - I don't think the next rounds have been scheduled yet?

Redsoxfan

intellectual dosser wrote: »

I think that if a referee, linesman or umpire observe any sledging then it should be an immediate yellow card, no warnings. There is no drawing a line between banter and something horribly personal, in order to counteract it all needs to be clamped down on.

This is one of the areas where we must recognise that the players are amateurs with Mon-Fri jobs. They deserve better than to spend their Sundays having personal abuse hurled at them.

I'm not for a moment defending verbal abuse - on the pitch or off it (but I won't admit to being innocent of the latter...), but I don't see how you can 'observe' sledging - I think it's a step too far that players can't say anything to their opponent?

Peter Canavan told a story on Monday's OTB about Pat McEnaney booking his marker in a game on the basis he saw yer man yapping at Canavan from 50 yards away - that's OTT for me.

keane2097

intellectual dosser wrote: »

I think that if a referee, linesman or umpire observe any sledging then it should be an immediate yellow card, no warnings. There is no drawing a line between banter and something horribly personal, in order to counteract it all needs to be clamped down on.

This is one of the areas where we must recognise that the players are amateurs with Mon-Fri jobs. They deserve better than to spend their Sundays having personal abuse hurled at them.

It's a black card offense already.

Redsoxfan

keane2097 wrote: »

It's a black card offense already.

Here's Marty and the lads explaining it

babybuilder

eddie73 wrote: »

Im not sure I agree with the above comments. Donegal looked good for most of the 2nd half, bar the 2 early points that tyrone got. Thereafter, it was more or less a game that tyrone couldnt finish off, and if they were still out there, they would not have gotten more than a sprinkling of scores. I think that the issues that have been highlighted are the defensive mistake that lead to the goal, and a few other passages of play in the first half that carved us up. This is all stuff to be worked on. Specifics, I would say that I expect armagh to run at us, as it is when tyrone did this that they caused us most problems. It is when they tried to recycle the ball laterally that we managed to get comfortable again. Pace and direct running are what will do most damage, and this is true for most teams, not just us. Paddy MCGrath has lost a bit of form, but in the 2nd half he was very steady. Lacey is back to his best, although he can get turned over when he runs into traffic inside his own 50 which is not good. Ryan mcHugh too needs to be played more as an attacker than a defender, as he is not strong enough to dispossess a larger player. That is about the height of our weakness from the game on sunday. WIll we improve?? time will tell, but Armagh will be a huge test. There is no doubt that there will be skin and hair flying in the athletic grounds.

I think Donegal at home should have pushed up on Tyrone in the second half. Imagine you carry out an attack up the field and then instead of holding the higher defensive line everyone turns around and runs back towards his own goal! no wonder they ran out of steam. Kick outs and short kick outs should be contested. Kerry did it to us last year and Dublin continue to do it. It's riskier but you have to take risks to win.

At least one more goal should have been taken although the Tyrone keeper looks pretty good. On the other hand if we beat Armagh the Tyrone game will long be forgotten. I agree about Ryan McHugh in defense. Lacks the power to dispossess an opponent. Smaller lighter players need space. Having watched 6 matches this year one big difference between this year and last is that we are much more open in defense and not making blocks and tackles further out the field. Closing down just 20-30 metres out is suicidal defending and good forwards will punish you. Teams now are very patient and will work an opening.

Another area that needs to improve is the short pass, hand or foot, into an inside forward between the midfield/half-forward area and the full forward line. Lacey in the past and McGlynn currently are the only exponents of this. This needs to be angled and precise.