Donegal GAA Discussion Thread

harpsman

@ 3: Possibly but bottom line is hes right. Shouldnt be playin senior intercounty matches at this time of year at his age, when hes involved in other comps.

Nidgeweasel

Redsoxfan wrote: »

But yes, good to see. (Magh Ene is a weird looking name - means 'The Plain of Hospitality' according to parish website).

Maybe that's where McEniff got the idea!

keane2097

Meant to post this last week but was pretty ill and never got around to it so glad to see it's back to the fore.

Would you not think that for a team, particularly like Donegal where squad depth is an enormous issue, that if a player is good enough to contribute to the senior team then that should be the priority?

I hear it said a lot at all levels that young players should be allowed to focus on their underage competitions but I'm not sure I'm convinced. Would you prefer to win an U21 All Ireland or have one of the young lads win you an Ulster at senior level or even come on with 20 minutes to go and turn an All Ireland semi-final?

Underage titles are grand and all, but to my mind they're totally pointless unless as a part of a conveyor belt to the senior team, if a guy is ready to make a positive contribution to the senior team early then all the better.

Redsoxfan

keane2097 wrote: »

Meant to post this last week but was pretty ill and never got around to it so glad to see it's back to the fore.

Would you not think that for a team, particularly like Donegal where squad depth is an enormous issue, that if a player is good enough to contribute to the senior team then that should be the priority?

I hear it said a lot at all levels that young players should be allowed to focus on their underage competitions but I'm not sure I'm convinced. Would you prefer to win an U21 All Ireland or have one of the young lads win you an Ulster at senior level or even come on with 20 minutes to go and turn an All Ireland semi-final?

Underage titles are grand and all, but to my mind they're totally pointless unless as a part of a conveyor belt to the senior team, if a guy is ready to make a positive contribution to the senior team early then all the better.

Ok, this could take a while, so please bear with me.

Jigger is a talented young player. But, I don't think he is at the level to make a serious impact for the Senior team just yet. His relative value is greater to both his school and the U-21 team.

I would also question the relative value of the Dvision Two of the National Football League vs the U-21 Championship in terms of developing players like Jigger. I'm pretty sure Cavan and Dublin, two teams who have been successful at U-21 level release/rest their U-21s from Senior duty when the Championship is on. I'm open to correction on that point.

Another issue - and we are heading into tinfoil hat territory here, but anyway. If Jim really wanted to introduce an U-21 player who might have influenced the result against Down, he should/could have introduced Ryan McHugh, who is a relatively far more accomplished player than Jigger at this level. But, he left him on the bench thoughout. McHugh scored 1-5 for Kilcar in Division 1 yesterday and is well able to take a point. Jigger, in both games I have seen him so far does not have the composure to take a score. Newry was no place for such inexperience if we really wanted to win the game.

We had Michael Murphy, Colm McFadden and Paddy McBreaty on the pitch at the same time as Jigger in Newry. What exactly was he expected to contribute?

Why Jigger was introduced in Newry but Ryan McHugh was left on the bench is something that is bothering me. I'll say no more on that.

keane2097

I suppose I'm coming at it from a more general POV, i.e. that if a player could go on to contribute more to the senior team by using him in ways that would as a side effect dick around the underage teams then would there be a problem with that.

I understand that in this specific case there's quite possibly more going on.

Redsoxfan

keane2097 wrote: »

I suppose I'm coming at it from a more general POV, i.e. that if a player could go on to contribute more to the senior team by using him in ways that would as a side effect dick around the underage teams then would there be a problem with that.

I understand that in this specific case there's quite possibly more going on.

In general, I believe that teams at all levels be given a fair chance to compete. If they are denied the services of their better/best players this reduces their chance of success. Many lads who play underage might not get a chance at senior level (it's interesting to look back at the 2010 U-21 team in this regard) and they deserve the chance to taste success at U-21 level. The same argument can be made in relation to club football.

Of course, this situation could be helped with appropriate scheduling of fixtures and a better tie in/relationship between U21 and Senior teams, like Kildare had last year with Kieran McGeeney for example. Now, with regard to the first point, that is not an issue specific to Donegal. However, we are not helping ourselves otherwise, having a manager with overseas commitments who is not really in a position to manage the U-21s (although he didn't take charge of them in 2011 either when Celtic was not an issue). Ok, we don't necessarily need a combined management team, but at the very least we need some level of co-operation between the men in charge of both teams. But of course the very obvious elephant in the room is the likely hostile relationship that exists between our Senior and U-21 management teams.

The reality is that Jim McGuinness will likely not be around next year. He's understandably focused on one thing only this year and that's fine I guess. For all I know, he has goals in terms of game time for each player in the squad and his decisions in Newry may reflect these goals. I just wish that there was a more long term focus in general.

One final thing - U-21 success has played a large part in Donegal's two All Ireland wins. In 1992, the team was largely made up of guys who had won All Ireland's in 1982 and 1987. And, the 2012 team got a boost from our U-21 success in 2010, not least Jim McGuinness himself who, in part, used this as a springboard to the senior team job. All throughout the U-21 campaign that year Jim relied heavily on Michael Murphy, a well-established player at senior level.

Ye are spoiled with senior success down in the Kingdom and can afford to dismiss U-21 football but we're not so fortunate up in Donegal! It's debatable, but in my view success at U-21 level has driven our success at senior level. The strategy (or lack thereof) at present is extremely short term in nature and is putting future prospects at risk. Add to that the fact that this crop of U-21s appears to have a decent chance of at least winning an Ulster title.

Redsoxfan

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

Have a word with the manager. Maybe I'm expecting too much but i'd rather we kept ranks and dealt with things like this internally instead of trhough the media.

3) Cycnical to suggest he just wanted an indirect pop at Jim and this gave him the opportunity?

There's the issue right there. Things are not exactly great between Jim and Maxi. And of course you have Rory Gallagher there in the background. It was interesting to see the Kilcar substitutions that were made yesterday!

This is all very disapponiting. I am delighted that Jim McGuinness is our manager this year and if he felt he needed to change his backroom team that was fine. After the way the split happened and the fact that Maxi and Rory are involved in the U-21s meant that conflict was always likely at some point.

Redsoxfan

Looks like the All Ireland Schools 'B' Semi-Final involving St Eunans will be plated in Emyvale this Saturday (29th) at 3.30pm.

K-9

Redsoxfan wrote: »

Ye are spoiled with senior success down in the Kingdom and can afford to dismiss U-21 football but we're not so fortunate up in Donegal! It's debatable, but in my view success at U-21 level has driven our success at senior level. The strategy (or lack thereof) at present is extremely short term in nature and is putting future prospects at risk. Add to that the fact that this crop of U-21s appears to have a decent chance of at least winning an Ulster title.

That's a very valid point, we've a terrible record at minor level, the U-21's better. We take Vocational schools seriously because of the strong structure of our schools in that way, so maybe there's cross over between them and the minors? Hard to combine both?

Vocational schools is a very West Ulster thing, colleges much stronger in the East, Derry and Tyrone combine both.

Looking at the teams left in the U-21's, it's very open and there's no Tyrone, Derry or Down for a change!

Redsoxfan

K-9 wrote: »

That's a very valid point, we've a terrible record at minor level, the U-21's better. We take Vocational schools seriously because of the strong structure of our schools in that way, so maybe there's cross over between them and the minors? Hard to combine both?

Vocational schools is a very West Ulster thing, colleges much stronger in the East, Derry and Tyrone combine both.

Looking at the teams left in the U-21's, it's very open and there's no Tyrone, Derry or Down for a change!

Aye, the Vocational Schools standard tends to be much lower (or maybe not, Carrick did hang with Eunan's pretty well last weekend). It's interesting to note that Holy Trinity Cookstown (who were Ulster Vocational and All Ireland Champions in 2013) played in the McLarnon and not the Ulster Vocational competition in 2014. At All Ireland level, the Vocational Schools competition is gone now, that's why Eunans and Carrick played off last weekend.

If you listen to the latest Charlie Collins podcast, the lads talk about Schools football. Donegal faces a few challenges - distances and demographics being one (whatever talent there is is spread over too many schools), foreign sports being the other.

It's disappointing that we can't field a team in the McRory but I guess it's better we have some success at McLarnon level rather than constantly struggle at a higher level.

Funnily enough, we beat both Derry and Tyrone at U-21 level last year, which you would think would be good enough to win an Ulster title at underage level. Cavan are the kingpins. Beaten finalists (to ourselves) in 2010, winners in 2011, 2012 and 2013 (I was at the 2013 final and it never really felt like we could win it even if we came back a bit at the end). And judging by last week's result against Tyrone, they are the team to beat again this year.

By all accounts, Fermanagh were awful last week and Donegal weren't terribly impressive despite some great scores by McBrearty. Jigger would definitely add something. I really like Hugh McFadden, but not as a midfielder. Ryan McHugh will be top class at this level this year.

K-9

My point was more we are strong at county Vocational school level, though there's only really 4/5 counties competing at it in Ulster, it's just the way our schools are mostly structured.

The McRory favours Northern Ireland counties, Monaghan and Cavan have no success in it either in years. It was often cited as a reason for their decline from the 60's on, no college success and nothing that notable at minor, Vocational or U-21 level either. We had a conveyor belt of talent in the 80's with Vocational, minor and U-21 successes.

Redsoxfan

K-9 wrote: »

My point was more we are strong at county Vocational school level, though there's only really 4/5 counties competing at it in Ulster, it's just the way our schools are mostly structured.

Ah, I get you now.

The McRory favours Northern Ireland counties, Monaghan and Cavan have no success in it either in years. It was often cited as a reason for their decline from the 60's on, no college success and nothing that notable at minor, Vocational or U-21 level either. We had a conveyor belt of talent in the 80's with Vocational, minor and U-21 successes.

Sure - but at least Cavan and Monaghan field teams in the McRory. The Cavan team made the semi-final this year and seemed to run Pats Maghera fairly close. Shocked me, but then they did have a good pedigree in bygone times. Cavan U-21s and Monaghan minors have done pretty well lately.

Redsoxfan

Redsoxfan wrote: »

Looks like the All Ireland Schools 'B' Semi-Final involving St Eunans will be plated in Emyvale this Saturday (29th) at 3.30pm.

Now been moved to Inniskeen with a 1pm throw in which mean I can make it!

K-9

Redsoxfan wrote: »

Sure - but at least Cavan and Monaghan field teams in the McRory. The Cavan team made the semi-final this year and seemed to run Pats Maghera fairly close. Shocked me, but then they did have a good pedigree in bygone times. Cavan U-21s and Monaghan minors have done pretty well lately.

Yeah, but Cavn and Monaghan had little success at Ulster under age level for a long time, seems they finally got their act together. It's great to see them and us competitive regularly again, for a long time it was Tyrone, Derry and Down producing conveyor belts of talent and it was becoming very predictable.

Redsoxfan

In the U-21s Armagh seemed to struggle to beat 14 man Antrim in Newry. Final score was 13-10. Rafferty missing for Armagh, who is also one of their Senior.

So, Donegal play Armagh next Wednesday, I assume neutral venue so maybe Omagh?

Of course, we also play Armagh in the final round of league games on Sunday week in Armagh.

Mackas_view

Thoughts on McGuinness back room team and how their experience or lack of May affect championship this season?

harpsman

Looks like Meath have done us a favour and guaranteed promotion.,assuming we beat Louth tomorrow!
Id be disappointed if we couldnt beat Armagh anyway.

Nidgeweasel

Great win for the minors yesterday in convoy coming back to beat Tyrone by 2 points.

Nidgeweasel

Louth for Sam.

Redsoxfan

Didn't make the game today unfortunately. Listened in on Highland instead. Sounded like we were pretty sloppy in conceding 3 goals. Good to get back to winning ways and get one step closer to promotion. Let's not rely on other results and beat Armagh next week. We might relegate them while we're at it.

Mackas_view

Redsoxfan wrote: »

Didn't make the game today unfortunately. Listened in on Highland instead. Sounded like we were pretty sloppy in conceding 3 goals. Good to get back to winning ways and get one step closer to promotion. Let's not rely on other results and beat Armagh next week. We might relegate them while we're at it.

Hopefully not. Would love to see Armagh stayin up, after all the good battles we have had over the years.

Redsoxfan

Mackas_view wrote: »

Hopefully not. Would love to see Armagh stayin up, after all the good battles we have had over the years.

You must be joking. I never had any time for Armagh and none of those battles went in our favour. Yes, I'm bitter.

overshoot

Redsoxfan wrote: »

You must be joking. I never had any time for Armagh and none of those battles went in our favour. Yes, I'm bitter.

i echo this! just raging we have never drawn them in the championship since the tables turned!
and any time we did manage to beat them bloody tyrone was always there!

cant see armagh going down tho unless we somehow win by 15pts, its top 4 v bottom 4 next week, while laois may take down at home, galway will never overhaul the points difference, getting a win in monaghan will be a big enough task for them.

didnt make the game either, any reports? in fairness after being 13pts to 1 up just before half time i can see how they might have gone a bit lax!

Redsoxfan

overshoot wrote: »

cant see armagh going down tho unless we somehow win by 15pts, its top 4 v bottom 4 next week, while laois may take down at home, galway will never overhaul the points difference, getting a win in monaghan will be a big enough task for them.

If both Armagh and Galway lose, they will be level on 5 points. In this case, the only way Armagh stay up is if Laois fail to win. Scoring difference only matters when there are more than two teams tied; otherwise, it's head to head.

overshoot

Redsoxfan wrote: »

If both Armagh and Galway lose, they will be level on 5 points. In this case, the only way Armagh stay up is if Laois fail to win. Scoring difference only matters when there are more than two teams tied; otherwise, it's head to head.

my bad, the table i was looking at wasnt updated and never realised! quite possible then

Redsoxfan

Anyway, I suspect it will be hard to take much from today's game. It sounded more like Louth were wretched for the first half while we were ok. Christy Toye and Rory Kavanagh seemed to have good games. No idea on his performance, but it's disappointing to see Paddy McBrearty start and not score. Leo McLoone remains at centre back and Neil Gallagher got no game time. We had a good spread of scorers, but by my reckoning, we went around 35 minutes without scoring from play.

harpsman

Redsoxfan wrote: »

If both Armagh and Galway lose, they will be level on 5 points. In this case, the only way Armagh stay up is if Laois fail to win. Scoring difference only matters when there are more than two teams tied; otherwise, it's head to head.

Correct-if only Armagh and Galway finish on 5 then Galway stay up as they beat Armagh earlier.
Likewise if Meath beat Louth I think it guarantees us promotion as it would be down to points difference and we have the best. If Monaghan and Down win and Meath and ourselves lose then Down go up ahead of us, having beaten us.
I really want us to beat Armagh as a pointer for the Summer, and secondly I agree it would be nice to relegate them after some of the losses to them in the last decade. If I was to be really,really greedy I would say that I would love to have met both Armagh and Monaghan in 2012 and beaten them well on way to All Ireland-theyre 2 teams we owe one to. Like I say just being greedy-I wouldnt take 2012 back as the golfers say!

SM746

Interested to see replay tomorrow but I thought Louths 1st goal was a blatant foul. And another point which was flagged up here few weeks ago about stadium announcements - was it announced today that Eoin McHugh was coming on for Lacey instead of Ryan? I know nothing major but was dead sure I heard that and those little things easily annoy me :-)

Nidgeweasel

Mackas_view wrote: »

Hopefully not. Would love to see Armagh stayin up, after all the good battles we have had over the years.

Good battles my arse! They won the battle and they won the fúcking war to boot, aswell as everything else.

I took great enjoyment in sending them packing into Divison 2 in 2012 and I'd take even greater enjoyment if we can send them into division 3, unlikely as it is.

Tbh It's a shame we haven't had a crack at them in the Ulster Championship while we've been on this run. Hopefully a final in clones so we can really get back at them. It's overdue.

And yes, I am bitter!

2moreMinutes

Maybe I'm being a slight pessimist but yesterday's game was disappointing to me.

If Louth stayed in the dressing room for the first half, it couldn't have been much easier for us. They (Louth) played as poorly for the first 35 minutes as I've seen any team play for a long time. They crowded their defence which gave us the opportunities to kick some glorious long range points with the aid of a reasonably strong breeze. With their 19 men behind the ball approach, every time they tried to break, they ended up messing around with the ball on the half way line and losing it simply due to having no numbers up front.
Even though Louth didn't show up for the first half and although we did kick a number of impressive points, it was disappointing that we didn't create any goal chances.

The second half is what's really disappointing to me. Louth seemed to change their approach to a more direct, running at us in numbers game and it worked. Although one of their goals was as a result of a shocking short kick out by Durcan, they had numerous opportunities for goal chances simply by running at us in numbers.


On a side note, I've no idea how Ballyshannon can be classed as a county ground. It hasn't changed a bit since I played on it 20'ish odd years ago (btw, we played "uphill" in the first half!) and facilities for spectators are essentially nonexistent.