Donegal GAA Discussion Thread

Stoner

dog_pig wrote:

Dublin were dominating early on in 2014 primarily through unsustainable long range scoring. When Donegal fought their way back into the game Dublin found those scores difficult when it wasn't as "easy for them".

I agree that Donegal changed things up brilliantly during the game.
Dublin did get a few decent goal chances before Donegal made tactical changes.

I agree with most of what you said except the statement that you can't keep long range shooting up for a whole game.
Who came up with that fact. I never heard it before 2014. Good footballers can shoot form distance at any time.
I understand not being able to track back for a full game but one is a skill the other is conditioning.

North of 32

Stoner wrote: »

dog_pig wrote:

Dublin were dominating early on in 2014 primarily through unsustainable long range scoring. When Donegal fought their way back into the game Dublin found those scores difficult when it wasn't as "easy for them".

I agree with most of what you said except the statement that you can't keep long range shooting up for a whole game.
Who came up with that fact. I never heard it before 2014. Good footballers can shoot form distance at any time.
I understand not being able to track back for a full game but one is a skill the other is conditioning.

Conversion percentages drop a lot the further out from the 21 a player gets. It's statistically demonstrable that shooting from 45m is not an ideal %. Sure why do you think defences set up at the 45m line? Everyone is happy to allow shots from there.

Here's an example to prove it: http://gaelicstats.com/comparing-football-forwards/

dog_pig

corny wrote: »

With respect that matches the Joe Brolly narrative but its not right. O' Gara through on goal makes a mess of a simple hand pass. Connolly through on goal hits it at the keeper. They'd 2 long range points from what i remember the rest were very gettable. Point is they created a boat load of good chances when Donegal didn't offer anything in return.

I didn't mean to suggest Dublin were fatigued in the 23rd minute either. Apologies it might read like that. I meant its easy to be full of running when the game is going your way and your 8-3 up. When its not and you have to work hard to match your opponent Dublin wilted. It was clear as day. Connolly for example just stopped running backwards. Thats credit to Donegal for forcing that mind you. I'm not trying to diminish the achievement. Just the narrative around the tactical side has taken on a life of its own while the fact that Donegal completely outworked Dublin (wanted it more) was forgotten.

Getting back to Saturday all the talk is what Donegal have to do to get on terms while its assumed Dublin are bomb proof. May not be the case if history is anything to go by is my point.

Watch the match back and look at the points by Dublin in the 10 minute period when Donegal went scoreless. Whatever narrative is irrelevant.

In relation to the goal chances - Dublin had a few early on which they didn't score and offered very little for the rest of the match.

Maybe I'm confused by what you meant by "the reality is Dublin played Donegal off the pitch when it is easy for them."?

jjdonegal

I vividly remember Martin McHugh after the Mayo 13 game - "every Donegal manager has experienced a humiliating defeat in Croke Park". Saturday will be Gallaghers. Nowhere near the 14 level and the loss of Big Neil is immense as Martin McE not at the races. No kivkout strategy but that will take time - it's not MA's fault as it took Durcan years to master it. I cannot see any case where Dublin do not beat the -5 handicap and in fact I'm struggling to see them not beating -10. Jesus I pray I'm wrong but I fear an absolute humiliation.

Stoner

North of 32 wrote:

Conversion percentages drop a lot the further out from the 21 a player gets. It's statistically demonstrable that shooting from 45m is not an ideal %. Sure why do you think defences set up at the 45m line? Everyone is happy to allow shots from there.

I'm not saying that, I'm saying that if a player can put the ball over the bar then that's a skill . It shouldn't be easier to do it in the first 10 minutes of a game. Plenty of players score long range points throughout games.

If you have the forwards that can do it they will do it.

Ceist_Beag

jjdonegal wrote: »

I vividly remember Martin McHugh after the Mayo 13 game - "every Donegal manager has experienced a humiliating defeat in Croke Park". Saturday will be Gallaghers. Nowhere near the 14 level and the loss of Big Neil is immense as Martin McE not at the races. No kivkout strategy but that will take time - it's not MA's fault as it took Durcan years to master it. I cannot see any case where Dublin do not beat the -5 handicap and in fact I'm struggling to see them not beating -10. Jesus I pray I'm wrong but I fear an absolute humiliation.

That's the head talking jj. It's time to put the logic and reason to one side for a couple of days now and say a few decades or light a few candles and let us travel in hope!

North of 32

Stoner wrote:

I'm not saying that, I'm saying that if a player can put the ball over the bar then that's a skill . It shouldn't be easier to do it in the first 10 minutes of a game. Plenty of players score long range points throughout games.

Sure, a player can do it at any time (Ulster final: P Harte; S Cavanagh) but the stats show that among the best 20 forwards the conversion rate is only 25â„… in the long run. Everything was going over for Dublin at the beginning but you can't win a game taking shots where, on average, only 1/4 go over.

That's not saying a player couldn't do it at any time of the game (see examples above), it's just saying that relying on long range scores means that on average your conversion rate will drop well below 50â„….

That is what is meant by unsustainable scoring.

North of 32

Stoner wrote:

I'm not saying that, I'm saying that if a player can put the ball over the bar then that's a skill . It shouldn't be easier to do it in the first 10 minutes of a game. Plenty of players score long range points throughout games.

Sure, a player can do it at any time (Ulster final: P Harte; S Cavanagh) but the stats show that among the best 20 forwards the conversion rate is only 25â„… in the long run. Everything was going over for Dublin at the beginning but you can't win a game taking shots where, on average, only 1/4 go over.

That's not saying a player couldn't do it at any time of the game (see examples above), it's just saying that relying on long range scores means that on average your conversion rate will drop well below 50â„….

That is what is meant by unsustainable scoring.

Stoner

North of 32 wrote:

That's not saying a player couldn't do it at any time of the game (see examples above), it's just saying that relying on long range scores means that on average your conversion rate will drop well below 50â„….

But that's the simple point. Lads saying you can't keep that up for the whole game .

TBH I think we had a misunderstanding, my point related to statements about players not being able to kick points from distance for the whole game . I'm saying that's bs to a degree I think we agree. The stats offered related to accuracy versus distance from the posts I was taking about the time in the game that they are scores. What about the championship quarter

All that said if they changed the statement to one that you can't win games by long distance points alone you need frees, fisted and short points etc that would have been a different story.

Anyway Im 95 percent convinced that the 2011 Donegal team could have been beaten by long-distance points plus a few frees . When the teams played in 2011 what was the score 6-8 .
A long distance shot was worth it, it was nearly like a goal. Now Donegal are complaining about an average score of 12 being low. But thats twice the 2011 score.
Remember in that game was a point ever more valuable, I'm not talking about a winning point but any point one at 35 or 51 minutes etc

Look at the scores in the 2011 final game Nolan, Donaghy Cluxton . The final that year was won by points kicked in injury time from distance. And look who kicked them? All All-stars.

Thing is how would Dublin 2011 have done against Donegal in 2014, possibly they would have won, maybe not but that 2014 Dublin team knew how to beat Donegal in championship football. But Donegal changed things up noticeably Kerry and Dublin noticed it and took it on board but it was too late fur Dublin. Regardless if Donegal played and beaten kerry before Dublin in 2014 I still think Donegal would have beaten Dublin such was the belief in the system .
So in 2014 Donegal changed it up mid game and Dublin stayed true to something that worked for 22 months it was not hype or overconfidence they just thought that system worked out evey time, the line didn't react fast enough.

So are Dublin now sticking to a rigid all out predictable system or has Gavin massively changed up his decision making .
Remember how long he left Brennan on Gooch in 2013. But Gooch died out in the second half, but really Cian O'Sullivan, now regarded as the best or second best sweeper moved on to him, the match up worked, but the change took too long to make. The undying belief in the system prevailed until Dublin played Donegal 10 months later

In the final in 2015 D O'Sullivans threat the one that worked in the final in 2014 was shut down much faster

All in all these are two teams well able to play negative defensive football.

I think this will be a more open game. Donegal could drive at Dublin now missing most of their best defenders. It might just be the case of going for it.

So another spoof you cant beat Dublin man on man. Kerry and Mayo came close it just hasn't happened yet.
So it's very possible our men for your men are not as good as 2011 or 2014. Lads like Kevin Nolan were a big loss through illness to Dublin, big name players never mind the gaping void left by ROC and the loss of counterattack speed from McCaffery.

K-9

jjdonegal wrote: »

I vividly remember Martin McHugh after the Mayo 13 game - "every Donegal manager has experienced a humiliating defeat in Croke Park". Saturday will be Gallaghers. Nowhere near the 14 level and the loss of Big Neil is immense as Martin McE not at the races. No kivkout strategy but that will take time - it's not MA's fault as it took Durcan years to master it. I cannot see any case where Dublin do not beat the -5 handicap and in fact I'm struggling to see them not beating -10. Jesus I pray I'm wrong but I fear an absolute humiliation.

Yep, my fear is Dublin do actually get that goal or 2 they threatened to in 14 and I think we've a big psychological thing about conceding goals against teams like them, O'Shea last year to give an example.

ghostfacekilla

Is it always this late in the evening before the name their team?

Not that I'll expect any major surprises.

Redsoxfan

Well, young Nidgeweasel did a mighty fine preview.

I have absolutely no faith we can win on Saturday. None.

Last year, we beat Tyrone and came within a kick of winning Ulster. We beat Galway handy enough in Croke Park and had not significant injuries heading to face Mayo. But we were second best by a long way in the Quarter Final.

This year, some parallels. But we have No Papa, no Big Neil, no real possibility of Colm Anthony grinning at the Hill. No chance.

Additions, only Eoin McHugh really, and a fine addition he has been. Gillespie may turn out to be as big a legend as his Gweedore teammate, but he's not going to make the difference this year.

Devenney (!) has a decent piece on DSH where he talks about us looking leggy. And that's the main problem I think. Too many of those who we relied on in 2012 look gassed.

Anyone who has watched this team over the past two years will know that we don't have a strategy for dealing with the top teams. We look OK against inferior opposition but there are too many issues with tactics, fitness and general mojo when it comes to the crunch.

It's unlikely that Dublin will accommodate us tomorrow. I have no idea how we will approach the game but unless it's some sort of wonderful hybrid of defence and attack they will be ready for us.

I hope we give it a go but fear that we will be ultra defensive and they will wear us down.

I also hope I'm wrong but I am basing all of the above on everything I have seen as opposed to trying to talk myself out of us winning.

Whatever, I'll be there to see it. Looking forward to the curtain raiser.

Stoner

Redsoxfan wrote:

I have absolutely now faith we can win on Saturday. None.

Go away you said that in 2014. I believed you.

Redsoxfan

Stoner wrote:

Go away you said that in 2014. I believed you.

I don't think I had too much to say in 2014!

2moreMinutes

Dublin -5 at 10/11.........easiest money to be made this summer. Unfortunately

Redsoxfan

2moreMinutes wrote:

Dublin -5 at 10/11.........easiest money to be made this summer. Unfortunately

Wrong.

Was - 4 earlier in the week.

Jayop

While I fully expect Dublin to win when was the last time someone beat Donegal in the championship by more than 5 points?

Maybe not that long ago but answers on a postcard.

Padkir

Jayop wrote: »

While I fully expect Dublin to win when was the last time someone beat Donegal in the championship by more than 5 points?

Maybe not that long ago but answers on a postcard.

On first thoughts, Mayo last year; Mayo in 2013.

Redsoxfan

Jayop wrote:

While I fully expect Dublin to win when was the last time someone beat Donegal in the championship by more than 5 points?[

Maybe not that long ago but answers on a postcard.

2015...

Jayop

Mayo by 7 last year.

How come I don't remember that even a little?

PressRun

Jayop wrote: »

Mayo by 7 last year.

How come I don't remember that even a little?

Tbh, I can hardly remember what even happened 5 minutes ago.

Redsoxfan

Jayop wrote:

How come I don't remember that even a little?

Jayop wrote:

Mayo by 7 last year.

Because it was by 8?

Jayop

Redsoxfan wrote: »

Because it was by 8?

2-2 I can't count either by the looks of it.

Maybe I shouldn't drink and post at the same time.

bob skunkhouse

Redsoxfan wrote: »

Well, young Nidgeweasel did a mighty fine preview.

I have absolutely no faith we can win on Saturday. None.

Ahhh...ya canny bait the optimism - or if I'm being deadly serious, the realism .

You're probably right and I would also expect a Dublin victory, but there are glimmers of hope for one to clutch to.
1)League semi final berth. At the start of the league would one have predicted that?
2)When the draw was made for the Ulster Championship, would one have predicted coming within a few mins of lifting the title?
3)Would one have realistically thought (giving our style of play) that we'd kick 21 scores against Cork?

It mightn't be much, but any glimmer of hope is better than nothing.

Anyway, the hang sangwhiches have been made, the car is fueled and watered, the 1.90 ready at hand and the top Ironed!

Agree with you 100% though- think the curtain raiser will be some game.

Up Donegal!!!

Alvin Holler

Jayop wrote: »

Mayo by 7 last year.

How come I don't remember that even a little?

This doesn't auger well for us today in that that match was actually the closest a beaten Ulster finalist came to winning a quarter final since Monaghan put it up to Kerry in 07:(

Ourselves (twice), Monaghan and Down all got hammered at this stage after a losing Ulster final.

Anyway, for us to win today we need McNiallais to have the game of his life and dominate midfield, McHugh x 2 to run riot, Murph to rediscover his form and Paddy to continue last weeks form. All doable but unlikely.

Like others here, I'd like to see Leo start and at least go down fighting. I think someone will beat Dublin this year, hopefully today's the day.

Nidgeweasel

The main thing we need is a coherent and competent plan.

Unfortunately I think it'll be a back of a fag packet job devised by 'you know' last Saturday on the way home.


**Anyway f*ck it, Positive vibes - we've got the players to crash into and beat these soft city boys and test their pulse. Let's get into them and see where it takes us.

"Rory's winning matches, Maxi's gettin' fined"

Tír Chonaill abú!

harpsman

Anyone need tkt? Have couple spare. Pm me if interested. Enjoy game. Hope for the best!!

North of 32

I was reading Jim's book again last night. This group of players have made us all so unbelievably proud. It's really terrific to relive the memories and reflect on what this team has given, and may yet have to give.

In 2014 it was impossible until it was done.

Nidgeweasel

Pish.

Do a proper run through of that later.


Immediate thoughts- got what we deserved.

K-9

Them wides lads! Story of the Summer. Really should have had at least another 2 or 3 points in the first half, no excuses or blaming management on that to be fair.

Dublin looked very, very ordinary in that second half and they actually looked rattled at one stage, credit to the lads there. Twasn't looking good at half-time.

Ryan McHugh was unbelievable. Credit to McGinley for being very quick of his line twice, or the autopsy would be very different!

Stoner

Nidgeweasel wrote:

Immediate thoughts- got what we deserved.

Hard luck guys. Closer than some predicted. We were lucky to have Mannion on the bench.

Grandeeod

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

Pish.

Do a proper run through of that later.


Immediate thoughts- got what we deserved.

They did.

squareball1988

So many things went our way today... that wouldn't have on another day with another ref.

But we failed to take advantage of them. That's the most upsetting part.

The wides yeah, they happen. Like they happened all summer, and last summer. But two men down, still lying deep. Would make you wonder if all the "football" has been coached out of them. (That sounds a bit dramatic)

Odhran would normally have a stab at a monster pont but didn't today. And I don't blame management for that. We had no have a go heroes today.

ghostfacekilla

Colm Anthony has announced his retirement anyway. Fine servant.

Nidgeweasel

Pretty much more of the same.

Those players are a credit. They just won't quit or give in and they ran themselves into the ground. We've always said that's all you want from the players, just to do their best and show their commitment. They had nothing left in them the end.

Lots of precious whinging from Dublin supporters yesterday and seen plenty of vacuous posts today on the topic. You always question how many of these people have ever played the game of are involved with clubs such is the ridiculous things you hear. There's no shrinking violets in that Dublin team, there are none in the Donegal team. More than fit for the rough and tumble of championship football. It's great to see it. Pity some supporters aren't as hardened.

Connolly is a victim of some sort apparently. I have to say I have no sympathy for him. He has nobody to blame but himself. An incredible footballer but a massive liability. Murphy got rightly booked for a very sloppy attempt on Fenton when the player was going down but there was a key point to note in the 2nd half where Murphy went in for a tackle and stopped himself because it was on the edge and risky. Therein lies the difference. So no sympathy for Connolly whatsoever. A ridiculous thing to do when you've already been booked.

Thought the Referee was generally alright yesterday but the 3 'gripes' (wouldn't even call them gripes but 3 decisions I identified as being badly wrong at the time) I have are 1) The O'Gara decision- ludicrous. I would hope it would be overturned but you don't know because attempting to strike is a red card too isn't it and they might want to support the ref. But that wasn't a refereeing mistake it was some gob****e behind the goal wanting to get involved. You're in trouble if that is a red card. 2) Bastick should have been black carded instead of booked, it was an intentional trip or grab. 3) Toye should have had a penalty, Bastick again. Glossed over by the media I've watched the game back and Horan mentioned it at the time. I thought it was a blatant foul.
None of these would have impacted on the result so that's a bonus.

On the game itself, Dublin were really good in the first half. Probed well, were very patient, very well drilled and kicked some really beautiful scores. I didn't feel we were in for a tanking though because I felt we had more in us and we do tend to dig in well. We were labored and seemed to lack intensity. I hate that saying but it's true in this instance. Our attacking strategy again was non existent. I'm sick of saying it, with the quality of players that we have it's not overly complicated to put in a solid defensive structure, and they've had 4 years of McGuinness. But you need to be at it further up the pitch.

We were rudderless really. Dublin held the ball attempting to draw us out (and did so really well), when the space manifested they'd pop the ball inside so you're now spread out more than you want and they've removed your primary weapon i.e the tackle. I wanted us to engage more, I don't like waiting on the offensive players to arrive personally. I'd rather surge and force a turn over. When we moved forward we didn't do it quick enough and weren't incisive enough. Our economy wasn't very good and it's unfortunate that McBrearty kicked his first two short and wide.

Second half again we didn't really do enough offensively despite getting a leg up with Dublin's sending off. Ironically the goal is everything we should have been doing but weren't- pace, off the shoulder support, multiple lines. That is Donegal football in a nutshell as long as I've known it. Short handpassing running game and mixing it up with good ball winners inside.

14 men behind the goal when against 14 men and 5 points down. I mean what is the point. You may aswell lose by 9/10 and just have a crack. But that's what they've been told to do and they'll do it or die trying.

In terms of performances, really positive to see Eoin McHugh doing well, Murphy was reliable as ever, McBrearty had a thankless job on his own and managed a couple of great scores, we actually did ok at midfield and our kickouts were not as bad as I thought they'd be. So there was plenty of things to be happy with. Ryan McHugh was exceptional. What a player he is. Also thought Eamon looked in control for the most part and hope he stays on. Really glad to see Gillespie making the step up and Leo was good when he came in. Nobody really let us down per se yesterday although wtf was up with Odhran.

But once again our overall strategy and set up wasn't good enough.It hasn't been good enough for 2 years. I'm bored moaning about the manager now. I'm sick of the same mistakes being made and expecting different results. Watched the game back this morning and Horan was doing co-commentary somebody like him would be perfect. It's the first time i've listened do him really and found him incredibly insightful and quick with what needed to happen etc.

Donegal are going nowhere under Gallagher. We have too much talent on the squad and on the way through over the next few years to just be arsing around playing percentages. And i'm dismayed by the papers nobody is looking at this as a bigger issue. 'Brave Donegal never gave in but Dublin too good in the end'- which is accurate and true but Donegal could have given a better account of themselves and picked up another couple of Ulster championships were it not for the sub standard haphazard management.

The occasions yesterday when we put a long ball in, did that really look coached to anybody? Or did it look like a case of a pre match "test these fcking boys, let it in" etc. Anyone can go in and start shouting off rhetoric in a dressing room. It's an overall lack of preparation and we could have so much better.

Looking ahead, a change in management is imperative. Facing into a third season with him is just depressing.


A final note, retirements are inevitable. I thought we would have them last year really. It pains me that we are bearing witness to dying embers of Karl's career but we'll wait for news to come out. That will be a sad day.

Colm Anthony- well what can you say. It's funny really, he's never been the stand out player for me, just always been there quietly toiling away knocking over scores. Never had the explosiveness of DV. Never had the eye for the ridiculous like big Eddie but what a consistently reliable player.

All time top-scorer, all time appearance holder. His place among the truly greats of Donegal football is assured. 2012 he was peerless and it's hard to see how there'd have been an All Ireland without him. Sensational. I would love to see St Michael's win a county championship. Him and the other buck certainly deserve it.

So then..... when's the county championship restarting? #anyonebuteunans

babybuilder

Donegal played with a lot of heart and effort but unfortunately we came up short. Disappointed in the end but considering the form and football played this year a 5 points loss wasn't a terrible result. As in the Tyrone match you can't win a match if you are not competing for 70+ minutes. All credit to Dublin especially Flynn and Kilkenny who were brilliant. You cannot drop off these players and allow them the run of the field.
Sporadic can best describe the performance. The first half was poor with terrible decision making - aimless kicks - displaying poor preparation in this respect. Whereas Dublin attack down the wings and then switch to the centre we attack through the centre and end up being turned over or being pushed to the wings. When we pushed up on Dublin for their kick outs we forced some turn overs and competed well at times in the middle of the field. Inexplicably we were not consistent in this approach and on numerous occasions we dropped off.
Our full back line played well but we don't pick others up further outfield just get bodies back occupying space.
The team under Gallagher looks leaderless although it's obvious that Murphy is carrying an injury / not fit. In the second half when the game was there for the taking and Dublin down one and then two players we lost our shape completely backs became forwards and forwards became backs. Every Dublin player should have been picked up at that stage and pressure applied. Maybe we ran out of steam. Great performances from the Magees and the McHughs. Another year over and another quarter final loss and no Ulster title.

I think we are the fifth best team in the country behind Dublin, Kerry, Mayo and Tyrone. Dying to see how Tipp do against Mayo.

babybuilder

Forgot to mention that Murphy was a very lucky boy to stay on the field. That hit on the jaw was hard enough to break it.

Murphy14

That's another game left behind yesterday and this time like the last two Ulster finals we never pushed on when we had the chance who do you blame for that management or players some of the match ups yesterday were spot on others baffling while the substitution of Eamon mc Gee who imo was performing well (I don't think Dubs would have waltzled in for the goal ) if there is a change in management I don't think there is anyone in the county to take the helm at present

Ceist_Beag

Not much to add, 100% agree with Nidge The only things I would add is that the one consolation from it was it's nice to know we can still really piss off the Dubs. The lads left it all out on the pitch but too many aren't in the form we needed and play with a conservatism that holds them back. We've seen the last of a few great servants to Donegal but there is enough talent coming through so I would definitely agree that now is the time to get the best man in for next year.
On the Dublin side I thought McManaman was superb. As for Connelly, what an outstanding talent, what a complete twat!

jjdonegal

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

Pretty much more of the same.

Those players are a credit. They just won't quit or give in and they ran themselves into the ground. We've always said that's all you want from the players, just to do their best and show their commitment. They had nothing left in them the end.

Lots of precious whinging from Dublin supporters yesterday and seen plenty of vacuous posts today on the topic. You always question how many of these people have ever played the game of are involved with clubs such is the ridiculous things you hear. There's no shrinking violets in that Dublin team, there are none in the Donegal team. More than fit for the rough and tumble of championship football. It's great to see it. Pity some supporters aren't as hardened.

Connolly is a victim of some sort apparently. I have to say I have no sympathy for him. He has nobody to blame but himself. An incredible footballer but a massive liability. Murphy got rightly booked for a very sloppy attempt on Fenton when the player was going down but there was a key point to note in the 2nd half where Murphy went in for a tackle and stopped himself because it was on the edge and risky. Therein lies the difference. So no sympathy for Connolly whatsoever. A ridiculous thing to do when you've already been booked.

Thought the Referee was generally alright yesterday but the 3 'gripes' (wouldn't even call them gripes but 3 decisions I identified as being badly wrong at the time) I have are 1) The O'Gara decision- ludicrous. I would hope it would be overturned but you don't know because attempting to strike is a red card too isn't it and they might want to support the ref. But that wasn't a refereeing mistake it was some gob****e behind the goal wanting to get involved. You're in trouble if that is a red card. 2) Bastick should have been black carded instead of booked, it was an intentional trip or grab. 3) Toye should have had a penalty, Bastick again. Glossed over by the media I've watched the game back and Horan mentioned it at the time. I thought it was a blatant foul.
None of these would have impacted on the result so that's a bonus.

On the game itself, Dublin were really good in the first half. Probed well, were very patient, very well drilled and kicked some really beautiful scores. I didn't feel we were in for a tanking though because I felt we had more in us and we do tend to dig in well. We were labored and seemed to lack intensity. I hate that saying but it's true in this instance. Our attacking strategy again was non existent. I'm sick of saying it, with the quality of players that we have it's not overly complicated to put in a solid defensive structure, and they've had 4 years of McGuinness. But you need to be at it further up the pitch.

We were rudderless really. Dublin held the ball attempting to draw us out (and did so really well), when the space manifested they'd pop the ball inside so you're now spread out more than you want and they've removed your primary weapon i.e the tackle. I wanted us to engage more, I don't like waiting on the offensive players to arrive personally. I'd rather surge and force a turn over. When we moved forward we didn't do it quick enough and weren't incisive enough. Our economy wasn't very good and it's unfortunate that McBrearty kicked his first two short and wide.

Second half again we didn't really do enough offensively despite getting a leg up with Dublin's sending off. Ironically the goal is everything we should have been doing but weren't- pace, off the shoulder support, multiple lines. That is Donegal football in a nutshell as long as I've known it. Short handpassing running game and mixing it up with good ball winners inside.

14 men behind the goal when against 14 men and 5 points down. I mean what is the point. You may aswell lose by 9/10 and just have a crack. But that's what they've been told to do and they'll do it or die trying.

In terms of performances, really positive to see Eoin McHugh doing well, Murphy was reliable as ever, McBrearty had a thankless job on his own and managed a couple of great scores, we actually did ok at midfield and our kickouts were not as bad as I thought they'd be. So there was plenty of things to be happy with. Ryan McHugh was exceptional. What a player he is. Also thought Eamon looked in control for the most part and hope he stays on. Really glad to see Gillespie making the step up and Leo was good when he came in. Nobody really let us down per se yesterday although wtf was up with Odhran.

But once again our overall strategy and set up wasn't good enough.It hasn't been good enough for 2 years. I'm bored moaning about the manager now. I'm sick of the same mistakes being made and expecting different results. Watched the game back this morning and Horan was doing co-commentary somebody like him would be perfect. It's the first time i've listened do him really and found him incredibly insightful and quick with what needed to happen etc.

Donegal are going nowhere under Gallagher. We have too much talent on the squad and on the way through over the next few years to just be arsing around playing percentages. And i'm dismayed by the papers nobody is looking at this as a bigger issue. 'Brave Donegal never gave in but Dublin too good in the end'- which is accurate and true but Donegal could have given a better account of themselves and picked up another couple of Ulster championships were it not for the sub standard haphazard management.

The occasions yesterday when we put a long ball in, did that really look coached to anybody? Or did it look like a case of a pre match "test these fcking boys, let it in" etc. Anyone can go in and start shouting off rhetoric in a dressing room. It's an overall lack of preparation and we could have so much better.

Looking ahead, a change in management is imperative. Facing into a third season with him is just depressing.


A final note, retirements are inevitable. I thought we would have them last year really. It pains me that we are bearing witness to dying embers of Karl's career but we'll wait for news to come out. That will be a sad day.

Colm Anthony- well what can you say. It's funny really, he's never been the stand out player for me, just always been there quietly toiling away knocking over scores. Never had the explosiveness of DV. Never had the eye for the ridiculous like big Eddie but what a consistently reliable player.

All time top-scorer, all time appearance holder. His place among the truly greats of Donegal football is assured. 2012 he was peerless and it's hard to see how there'd have been an All Ireland without him. Sensational. I would love to see St Michael's win a county championship. Him and the other buck certainly deserve it.

So then..... when's the county championship restarting? #anyonebuteunans

Well said apart from one disgraceful statement - Eunans for the championship please so we can give the county players an extended rest :-)

Alvin Holler

Disappointing end to a disappointing season, can't fault the lads effort but they ran out of steam. Ultimately our season came down to the six minutes of injury time in the ulster final, win that and we could have been looking at an all ireland final otherwise we were waiting for the inevitable.

To challenge for an all ireland we needed Murphy to be on top form, instead everything seemed to be a struggle for him. Was it 2 points from play over 6 championship matches? Free taking was less reliable too. Hopefully he can get a good break over the winter and come back stronger.

I'd stick with Gallagher, I think the only realistic other candidate is Declan so I don't see any improvement there. Tactically we need to improve but generally we've struggled offensively since 2012.

Hopefully we don't see too many retirements, we're in the middle of a transitional phase but most of our best players this year are aged 22-24 so a bit of experience is still required.

Nidgeweasel

babybuilder wrote: »

Forgot to mention that Murphy was a very lucky boy to stay on the field. That hit on the jaw was hard enough to break it.

Did you think? I thought a booking was about right. They were full tilt, he's come in incredibly fast and hard and unfortunately Fenton was dropping at the same time so it hit his face instead of his body/ball.

Thought a booking was fine. It's a contact sport. No whinging from us when McMahon had a dig at Leo. Big enough boys to handle it.

PressRun

I thought before the match that if McGuinness was still there Donegal would have a great chance of turning Dublin over. I still think after the match that if he'd been there, ye could have done it.

Stoner

Nidgeweasel wrote:

Connolly is a victim of some sort apparently. I have to say I have no sympathy for him. He has nobody to blame but himself. An incredible footballer but a massive liability. Murphy got rightly booked for a very sloppy attempt on Fenton when the player was going down but there was a key point to note in the 2nd half where Murphy went in for a tackle and stopped himself because it was on the edge and risky. Therein lies the difference. So no sympathy for Connolly whatsoever. A ridiculous thing to do when you've already been booked.

Decent post Nidgeweasel, I agree about each team having a certain type of player and with most of your points

Think you are bring soft of the Murphy incident only being a yellow, it was a closed fist he was lucky, it's no less dangerous to hit someone standing up than it is when they are on the ground . Fenton is a very important player for Dublin, there is nobody on the bench to replace him, but it is what it is, GAA refs are very inconsistent, how could O'Gara be sent off for an open slap to the midsection and another man stay on for a closed fist to the face. That's a huge thing for yesterday.

Also with respect to Bastic and Toye maybe they both should have gone as I pointed out yesterday one of Christy's first acts was to hit Bastic off the ball in the face right at the halfway mark. Loads of people saw it, nothing was done . I'm not making an issue of the hit I couldn't see if it was an elbow or a fist etc but some perspective on the Toye Bastic engagement was needed. If every team has the type of players you spoke about in your post Toye and Bastic are in the second bracket.

Was emaonn injured ? I didn't see much of the clash between the three lads.?

I agree with all the BS about negative football and there are a lot of BS posts on the Dublin forum . Like every team we have certain supporters who see the game a certain way you have those guys too.
One Dublin old boy behind me yesterday called Kilkenny a stupid ***T because he played the ball backwards.
When you have 82,000 people at a game you are bound to have loads who don't understand it wearing a multitude of county colours .

BTW I thought Spillanes words in the Sunday World today were very unfair. His bias against Ulster football really shows in it.
I thought the Tyrone Mayo game was good.

Nidgeweasel

Stoner wrote: »

Decent post Nidgeweasel, I agree about each team having a certain type of player and with most of your points

Think you are bring soft of the Murphy incident only being a yellow, it was a closed fist he was lucky, it's no less dangerous to hit someone standing up than it is when they are on the ground . Fenton is a very important player for Dublin, there is nobody on the bench to replace him, but it is what it is, GAA refs are very inconsistent, how could O'Gara be sent off for an open slap to the midsection and another man stay on for a closed fist to the face. That's a huge thing for yesterday.

Also with respect to Bastic and Toye maybe they both should have gone as I pointed out yesterday one of Christy's first acts was to hit Bastic off the ball in the face right at the halfway mark. Loads of people saw it, nothing was done . I'm not making an issue of the hit I couldn't see if it was an elbow or a fist etc but some perspective on the Toye Bastic engagement was needed. If every team has the type of players you spoke about in your post Toye and Bastic are in the second bracket.

Was emaonn injured ? I didn't see much of the clash between the three lads.?

I agree with all the BS about negative football and there are a lot of BS posts on the Dublin forum . Like every team we have certain supporters who see the game a certain way you have those guys too.
One Dublin old boy behind me yesterday called Kilkenny a stupid ***T because he played the ball backwards.
When you have 82,000 people at a game you are bound to have loads who don't understand it wearing a multitude of county colours .

BTW I thought Spillanes words in the Sunday World today were very unfair. His bias against Ulster football really shows in it.
I thought the Tyrone Mayo game was good.

I may be being soft but I thought at the time that stage at the game and in the circumstances it was a booking. Maybe i'm more lax about those type of hits.It was an accidental clout and if Fenton wasn't dropping i'd been more inclined to say it should have been a red. Was just really sloppy.

Genuinely didn't see (don't recall) the Toye/Bastick thing. Obviously he shouldn't have hit him like that if he did. I just pointed out Bastick's trip and the foul which should have been a penalty because I thought they were fairly obvious referring mistakes. Wasn't an issue with Bastick- he just happened to be involved in both incidents!

Not sure what happened Eamonn McGee it was a strange one. I thought he was playing quite well. The clash and it was a tight one was Murphy and Ciaran Gillespie, heavy collision. Gillespie did well to get on with it, he's only a young lad.

I've noted quite a bit of Kilkenny being fairly heavily critisiced. I don't understand it. He ran the game. Don't know what more people want. Are you no good now unless you're driving through kicking scores from all over every 2 minutes? You cut your cloth to suit, Kilkenny kept the play moving, kept Donegal shifting and had a big hand in wearing them out by doing so. Thought our Ryan was the stand out player but Kilkenny was deserved of MOTM, if that makes sense.

Haven't read the Sunday World in a long time, any rag that pays Roy Curtis for his ridiculous views wouldnt be fit to be used to pick up dogsh*t! He's got it in for us himself since Neil McGee said he'd kidnap him and stick him in the boot of his car

On Dublin, you needed a test, you got one. Will do you the power of good that. Plenty to work on.

Redsoxfan

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

Pretty much more of the same........

Oi, you stole my post .

Well said, it's pretty much in line with my own thinking.

First half was a disaster really. Second half was lit up by the goal and the sending's off should have helped us, but in reality Dublin were comfortable throughout and playing keep ball against us is a pretty obvious tactic to employ at this stage. This malaise has been in the team since the 2014 All Ireland Final, the blame for which cannot be laid at the current manager's door, but he has had two years to come up with an alternative approach and I've seen nothing new.

Despite the overly defensive display, I was proud of the lads for having a go. The real disappointment for me this year was the Ulster Final. Anyone who was there yesterday will have seen Tyrone ain't all that. That was a game we should have won (as was the 2014 Ulster Final....).

Big mystery on MacNiallais. That's consecutive All Ireland Quarter Finals where he has not made any (positive) impact on the game. Was overmatched against Keegan last year, no idea what happened this year. I *hope* it turns out he was injured yesterday because there really is no other excuse for such a performance.

Kick it into Murphy they say. Well, two things. One, we are told that is a waste of time in Ulster because there are three men hanging off him. Well, it didn't stop Mayo trying it (successfully) against Tyrone yesterday. Secondly, if you are going to do it, it needs to be practiced. When tried yesterday, it was clear we are no longer able to do so. Back to basics please.

So Colm Anthony is gone. A fine player, but frustrating at times, and would have been better to call it a day last year, he had no part to play this year. 2012 was his best ever year and we should be thankful for that as well as those for all those years that he toiled in for the cause before Jim. Fare thee well.

Rory K will 'probably' retire (again) and it's probably the right choice as he never looked able for 70 minutes this year. At the same time, he was the only one who looked capable of catching a long kick out yesterday.

No idea on where the likes of E McGee, Lacey, Big Neil, Christy and David Walsh stand. You can probably throw the likes of Frank and Tony into the will they/won't they camp, although it will depend on personal circumstances as opposed to anything else for the latter two. Eamon had a fine game yesterday.

One positive yesterday (aside from Ryan McHugh of course) was our new keeper. He has shown signs of development. The fundamentals are sound, the kick out will continue to improve hopefully.

But look, we cannot keep relying on the same players. We need to introduce more new faces next year, especially in the League, where we can get some sense of whether or not they are good enough. I'd like to see Gillespie, Eoin Ban, Carroll, Ciaran Thompson and Stephen McBrearty all get significant time and maybe throw in McGonagle, O'Brien and Mulligan at stages as well. Such wholesale change will mean performances will suffer in the short term, but it's only the League. Come Championship, whoever gets a jersey should be there on merit and not for the sake of change. In any case, change tends to be by evolution rather than revolution, so if we even get one new starter for next June we will be doing well.

I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of senior players decide to return. Ulster is competitive, but very winnable for Donegal.
As to the manager, my views are clear enough. Unless he changes his approach we will continue to be predictable and beatable. It's probably stating the obvious, but we need to set up our defence higher up the pitch rather than inviting teams onto us such that those with good footballers will be able to pick us off at will. In addition, we need to bite the bullet and make better use of our two outstanding forwards in their natural positions. Easier said than done I'm sure but a tactical genius will surely find a way.

tl;dr Good luck to the Minors.

Redsoxfan

Stoner wrote: »

I agree with all the BS about negative football and there are a lot of BS posts on the Dublin forum . Like every team we have certain supporters who see the game a certain way you have those guys too.
One Dublin old boy behind me yesterday called Kilkenny a stupid ***T because he played the ball backwards.
When you have 82,000 people at a game you are bound to have loads who don't understand it wearing a multitude of county colours .

Well done to Dublin Stoner. Kicked some wonderful points and ye clearly have developed more than one way to play and that will serve ye very well.

Dyr

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

Did you think? I thought a booking was about right. They were full tilt, he's come in incredibly fast and hard and unfortunately Fenton was dropping at the same time so it hit his face instead of his body/ball.

Thought a booking was fine. It's a contact sport. No whinging from us when McMahon had a dig at Leo. Big enough boys to handle it.

Stone cold red, all day. You don't swing like that in the hope you'll manage to get some of the ball.

Oddly enough I though donegal were quite vocal in their whinging about tackles and belly rubs, which is why there was two reds dished out

You've good players, ditch Gallagher and the spoiling nonsense and find a manager who wants use them.

babybuilder

Is Rory Gallagher on a two or three year contract? In any case who would be favourite to succeed him? Anyone from outside the county?

jjdonegal

babybuilder wrote: »

Is Rory Gallagher on a two or three year contract? In any case who would be favourite to succeed him? Anyone from outside the county?

3. No idea who people think we could get to replace him. Bonner prob be favourite but I'd be very very worried as I'd see that as a step back. Donegal is not the best located county to attract the names some people will say they want.