Vet of Repute in Question

seanaway

(I don't want to be more specific here for possible legal and/or other reasons and - don't know boards' rules too well so just want opinions- hope that's ok. )


I've had the unpleasant experience of learning that a vet I used recently (Recommended by many and some very trusted local vets/people ) has billed my pet insurance for a 'complication' during a procedure- as well as the procedure.

The final bill was some 20%+ above the initial pre-approved quote.

Normal ? Probably. Things can and do go wrong.

However, when I reviewed my insurance company's notes I found the vet had noted the 'complication' in the operation notes and had stated the 'complication' had occured as a result of the vet doing something that had caused the complication (clear cut and no question about this according to the vet's own notes).

The vet then billed for the resulting procedures for fixing the 'complication' before completing the original procedure.

There were some other questionable charges too - I won't go into these and don't want to get bogged down in nitty gritty stuff.

The insurance level had been reached and the 'extra procedure' bill meant a bill for me of some hundreds of euro - which I do not have.

My pet insurance premium has gone from €180 to €390 as a result of the operation he needed.

I phoned the vet and questioned the bill but I have heard nothinhg back in over a week. The silence makes me wonder.

The question I pose here is a simple A,B,C..... choice format as I do not want to get overwhelmed by general opinions until I get legal and other advice.

Your opinion is greatly appreciated though--- and THANK YOU in advance for what you vote.

A: Forget the whole thing.
B: Take legal advice
C: Request the vet covers the premium for the next year
Request the vet covers the increased premium for the next year.
E: Insist the insurance company reclaims the full amount and sues for false claims.
F:Contact the Vet's representative body and make a formal complaint.
G: Other --please say what as I'd be lost at this point otherwise!!!

tk123

I'd call the insurance company and double-check if the increase was impacted by the extra procedures the vet has claimed for - or if it would have gone up by that much if it was the original operation with no complications. After that one on hand things don't always go to plan and for me the dog being ok would be the most important thing.. but on the other if this has caused eg an extra €100 then you're left paying it every year when you renew which seems unfair as it was the vet's mistake - assuming I'm reading your post correctly!
Call into the vets too - don't just wait for them to call you back. Make an appointment for your dog and ambush the net if you need to!

jimf

personally I would hold fire until I have spoken to the vet as we all know operations can have unforeseen complications but you would have though

a safety of the animal first

b common courtesy to phone and advise you asap after the operation what those complications were and maybe give you a chance to pay the extras incurred yourself without loading your insurance for the foreseeable future

anniehoo

seanaway wrote: »

(I don't want to be more specific here for possible legal and/or other reasons and - don't know boards' rules too well so just want opinions- hope that's ok. )

That's fair enough.But, I'm editing your title as by the very nature of you "not" wanting to draw too much attention, you are doing just that by your thread title. Bear with me....

wrote:

I've had the unpleasant experience of learning that a vet I used recently (Recommended by many and some very trusted local vets/people ) has billed my pet insurance for a 'complication' during a procedure- as well as the procedure.

The final bill was some 20%+ above the initial pre-approved quote.

Every Vet should have a "disclaimer form" that clients fill in before they hand over their pet for a procedure. Either a definite cost is agreed, so both parties know where they stand (with or without insurance) or a certain allowance is made i.e an estimate, which is agreed upon before anything further is done. This generally comes into play moreso with a Surgical procedure and DEFINITELY if a client has insurance (more leeway).

In an Insurance policy, everyone has an "excess" that they have agreed to pay. Eg.Premium is €500/yr, something goes wrong, vet bill is €1500, but the excess is €125 and the Insurance Co. pays the rest (as long as the T&Cs are adhered to).

Or, you've gone the "hope for the best route" and your policy is €125/yr and your excess is €500 (what you pay). It's painful when you go the cheap policy route.

Which one have you opted for?

wrote:

Things can and do go wrong.

Yes they do, but it's up to your insurance company to figure out 1. Is your vet truly negligent (not for you to decide) 2. Is this a complication via anaesthesia that is unexpected, but happens and therefore not your vet's fault (not for you to decide) 3. What your T & Cs of your policy states as reasonable and were normal veterinary operational practices abided by.

This is WHY we get insurance. But, you also get what you pay for.

wrote:

I found the vet had noted the 'complication' in the operation notes and had stated the 'complication' had occured as a result of the vet doing something that had caused the complication (clear cut and no question about this according to the vet's own notes).

This is NOT for you to question. This is why you pay your insurance. Pet Insurance companies have qualified vets believe it or not, working for them, analysing these claims. This is not for a "lay person" to figure out.

wrote:

The insurance level had been reached and the 'extra procedure' bill meant a bill for me of some hundreds of euro - which I do not have.

Do you mean the "excess" in this case i.e the bit you pay as I mentioned above? Claims can run into the hundreds of thousands, so I don't think you mean this.

wrote:

My pet insurance premium has gone from €180 to €390 as a result of the operation he needed.

Generally no different than any other insurance policy you take out when you claim, depending, again on what company it is...and whether you've read the fine print.

This is a VERY common query with EVERY Vet Practice. When things go RIGHT, they're fantastic...but when thing's go WRONG, every single iota of detail is up for refute.

OP, you have Insurance. Wait for their professional advice before you decide on anything else. If you feel you're not happy, escalate your issue to Veterinary Council of Ireland.

seanaway

Thank you all.

Been there and done all that.

Vet contacted.

Insurance contacted

Reply to Annihoo Specifically:


>>Quote:

This is NOT for you to question. This is why you pay your insurance. Pet Insurance companies have qualified vets believe it or not, working for them, analysing these claims. This is not for a "lay person" to figure out.>>>>

How DARE you tell me what is and not what to question!!!

Are you a vet or an insurance agent? Or maybe someone who likes to try to make pet owners appear dull and ignorant so that some 'experts' can bill over and beyond the odds?????

Come on - let's hear who you are and what your real interest in this is.

If you are not a 'lay person' then who are you????

Come on... truth be told or are you afraid of lay people knowing what and who you are?

ps

having looked at the ...'escalate your issue to Veterinary Council of Ireland.' point i have to say their site is not very reassuring. Then again I have not much faith in the process mentioned above either. I find self governing bodies in Ireland to be not much more than a joke in self governance. Look at solicitors and their self governance.

Hellrazer

Sean calm down NOW.You have just made some serious accusations against a mod of this forum aswell as using aggressive behaviour.Now quit this or I will ban you from the forum.You asked some questions,you got answers and you've decided that you don't like those answers.

seanaway

Hellrazer

Apologies if I seemed irate. I was. There was no intention of making allegations against a moderator. However, I think you will agree I should have the right to respond to someone telling what I can and can not do regarding the welfare of my own dog.

Please read my response to each of the issues raised by the moderator. I think you will see I am reasoned and clear headed in what I write. I have not ever been offensive in any post on this forum nor will I. What I wrote, I wrote from the offence I took at being spoken down to like some common fool. Something I think most people would do in my place.

A.)

Quote:
Things can and do go wrong.
Yes they do, but it's up to your insurance company to figure out 1. Is your vet truly negligent (not for you to decide) 2. Is this a complication via anaesthesia that is unexpected, but happens and therefore not your vet's fault (not for you to decide) 3. What your T & Cs of your policy states as reasonable and were normal veterinary operational practices abided by.

Response:
The vet did not at any time whilst speaking to me after the operation mention the complication had been caused in this manner. Merely that it was rare to happen and that it did happen in this case. The vet did not elaborate. Neither did the next vet who discharged the dog. The insurance company had missed the notes in their initial review. ThereforeI disagree with the above statement. The notes clearly state the vet in question caused the complication.

B.)

Pet Insurance companies have qualified vets believe it or not, working for them, analysing these claims. This is not for a "lay person" to figure out.

My response:
I spent a lot of time talking to the insurance company and when they reviewed the paperwork they decided to 'pass it on for further review.' It was I who highlighted issues within the paperwork that the insurance company and their vets had missed on first sight. They were, to say the least, very grateful for my call and the insight they gained as a result. In fact, the company said it was only when people like me call in that they gain this type of insight.

C.)

Quote:
The insurance level had been reached and the 'extra procedure' bill meant a bill for me of some hundreds of euro - which I do not have.
Do you mean the "excess" in this case i.e the bit you pay as I mentioned above? Claims can run into the hundreds of thousands, so I don't think you mean this.

My response:
No. The excess was paid on first vet visit elsewhere.

The amount is that beyond the annual payout per condition.

D.)

Every Vet should have a "disclaimer form" that clients fill in before they hand over their pet for a procedure. Either a definite cost is agreed, so both parties know where they stand (with or without insurance) or a certain allowance is made i.e an estimate,

My response:
I had asked the vet several times to provide me with a quote for the operation. I made it clear the amount I could afford several times and the remaining amount on the policy. I clearly stated I could not afford any more than this. I was told it would come in under the policy limit but I never received the written quote. I decided to go ahead without it as my dog was in discomfort and I had verbal assurance as to cost.

E.)

As far as premiums and insurance. I did not go the cheap route. I went the route which provided life cover for conditions. The amount for this condidtion would more than have covered the cost of treatment had there not been the complication mentioned above.

The complication was caused by a physical action of the vet. This is clearly stated in the notes. It is not my opinion. It is what the insurance company found when I questioned the amount and it was they who told me of this not the vet.

In closing, thank you to everyone for their input. I am now going to leave the thread at this. I will, with the mods' permission, let you all know the outcome of this as I think it may be of use to others in simliar circumstances.

One very important point I would like to make is: I do not in any way question the abilities or skills of the vet I mentioned. They have proved to be very capable and caring. My issue is the manner in which the insurance claim/bills were dealt with. If anything, I would like to think it was an oversight as my trust has been damaged in this. I will use the vet again and I have no intention of attempting to damage reputation or business for them in any way. This is why I have been so careful not to give any indication of name/location/ or more detail than required to ask my question.

seanaway

Dear All

As promised I am now updating everyone on the situation.

I did contact the vet in question and queried the amount. I also informed the accounts person I had no intention of paying the 'outstanding' amount quoted to me.

I was told I would recieve a call within days.

I did not.

I called again after a week and was told the 'vet had cleared the outstanding amount' and that ' you don't have to worry about paying that'.

Courteously I informed the accounts person that I appreciated the vet realising his initial error and his subsequent correction. I also said there were issues I would still like to discuss and that I would appreciate a call back.

I was assured I would receive one.

That was 4 weeks ago and, as yet, no call has been received.

To all who have read and/o supportedr my comments here, I would like to say a thank you and to advise it is ALWAYS best to question professionals' bills.

I will as always keep my comments within polite guidelines and I will not name the vet in question here as I am still more than impressed with the progress the dog has made. Fair rules allow for some errors.

Thank you again and I will post on the follow up to the next call to the practice in question.