Massive jump in DOE test fees- RSA

Going Forward

bucketybuck wrote: »

I have many times been asked to prepare an estimate based on nothing but a DOE failure list. Its part of the job, I do not have any choice in the matter. All I can do is work on a worst case scenario, and we are instructed to overestimate not underestimate as customers are rarely rational about the final invoice exceeding the estimated costs.

Clearly you yourself would not attempt an estimate based on nothing but the knowledge that the alternator light is on, which brings us back to the original story. He received a sight unseen estimate which obviously was based on the worst case scenario of service, replace alternator, replace brake pads and replace tyre.

Then on the internet this becomes another horrific tale of a nasty dealer trying to rip off the poor driver.

He says he was quoted 850 plus vat.

A thousand euro for replacing a fuse or an alternator, brake pads and a tyre.............

No wonder he feels slightly screwed.

bucketybuck

Going Forward wrote: »

He says he was quoted 850 plus vat.

A thousand euro for replacing a fuse or an alternator, brake pads and a tyre.............

No wonder he feels slightly screwed.

See how the figures grow...

Even just you repeating the story have inflated everything to paint a picture. €850 isnt a thousand euro. It wasn't replacing a fuse. It wasn't one brake pad. There was also a service included which you decline to mention.

But thats besides the point. He isn't allowed to feel screwed by the first garage, it seems he never even let them see the van at all.

BorneTobyWilde

If it was cheap we would all test more often
Fact that it's not cheap is reason people get it done for a 20.00

rubberdiddies

bucketybuck wrote: »

See how the figures grow...

Even just you repeating the story have inflated everything to paint a picture. €850 isnt a thousand euro. It wasn't replacing a fuse. It wasn't one brake pad. There was also a service included which you decline to mention.

But thats besides the point. He isn't allowed to feel screwed by the first garage, it seems he never even let them see the van at all.

Maybe then the problem is with communication.

I left my van in at 8am that morning. Some time after 12 I got a call to say it failed because of x, y and z.

As an average punter who just wanted to pass and go home without having to bring it back again I naturally asked how much it would cost to bring it to passing. about half an hour later I get a call with the bad news. At the time it never even entered my head that it may have been an estimate so naturally at that price I declined.

Communication issue? Maybe
But to be so far off the mark. At no point was I told the possible lower end of the scale.

Going Forward

bucketybuck wrote: »

See how the figures grow...

Even just you repeating the story have inflated everything to paint a picture. €850 isnt a thousand euro. It wasn't replacing a fuse. It wasn't one brake pad. There was also a service included which you decline to mention.

But thats besides the point. He isn't allowed to feel screwed by the first garage, it seems he never even let them see the van at all.

850 plus vat is how much?

theoneeyedman

Ardeehey wrote: »

Price increases are unfortunate but job needs to be done, just ask the family of the poor schoolkid that was killed and the rest injured in Offaly a couple of years back...rear axle came off the bus!

IIRC this bus was 'tested', at least on paper. Charging Joe Soap more to test his Berliingo won't cure the issues around how this bus was tested IMO......bit of a bogus argument

bucketybuck

Going Forward wrote: »

850 plus vat is how much?

Apologies. In my industry everything is a figure without vat.

ljpg

put me van through the doe today,failed on rear brake imbalance,(2% off!!!!!)was'nt happy handing over €110,just to add insult to injury its €43 for a retest.

mickdw

Its really crazy the cost of this test now. I dont have a commercial but I can see its not fair. If you end up failing and needing re test, its the guts of €200 if counting alittle diesel cost also and thats every year.
Who decided that this increase was a good idea? I believe its some form of levy that has been added to the cost. Whats it for?

Bpmull

mickdw wrote: »

Its really crazy the cost of this test now. I dont have a commercial but I can see its not fair. If you end up failing and needing re test, its the guts of €200 if counting alittle diesel cost also and thats every year.
Who decided that this increase was a good idea? I believe its some form of levy that has been added to the cost. Whats it for?

I was getting my focus test today and everyone was complaining about the price increase. It's apparently to cover new computers and equipment. It's very different in there now most stuff going in was failing while I was there very strict. Also the test is back dated. So if you van is 6 months out of test and it passes you only get a cert for 6 months. Where as before it was always a year from the day it was tested. Anyway I passed and I am getting the disc in the post next week it goes up on the window like an nct.

boomshakalaka

ljpg wrote: »

put me van through the doe today,failed on rear brake imbalance,(2% off!!!!!)was'nt happy handing over €110,just to add insult to injury its €43 for a retest.

Is brake imbalance not a visual item? I thought visual retests were free?

BohsCeltic

boomshakalaka wrote: »

Is brake imbalance not a visual item? I thought visual retests were free?

Its put on a machine, you couldn't tell by just looking at them

Andrew_Doran

mickdw wrote: »

Its really crazy the cost of this test now. I dont have a commercial but I can see its not fair.

It now also applies to camper vans and its yearly for them too. Stinger.

bucketybuck

mickdw wrote: »

Who decided that this increase was a good idea? I believe its some form of levy that has been added to the cost. Whats it for?

Its a government levy yes. We spoke to our test centre today and saw their new price list. The actual fee from the test centre hasn't changed at all, but they now have to add a government levy on top of every fee, and some of the fees are insane.

For example a HGV 3 axle test was €147.67+vat. It still is, but there is now a €55 govt levy on top of that! A digital tacho calibration also has over €50 levy added.

Basically you pay the fee, pay VAT on the fee, and then pay this very pricey levy on top of that.

visual

back dating a test is really bad...

NCT do this too. yet you can be prosecuted if its not current.

This is my gripe with RSA its focused on revenue rather than safety

Going Forward

Andrew_Doran wrote: »

It now also applies to camper vans and its yearly for them too. Stinger.

And rightly so!

I could never understand the special treatment that camper van owners got from the RSA.

Andrew_Doran

Going Forward wrote: »

And rightly so!

I could never understand the special treatment that camper van owners got from the RSA.

I think they should be tested too. I don't own or want one myself but I think it is sad that with the costs rising the idea of a camper is slowly edging out of reach of more people, like lots of things these days.

Going Forward

mickdw wrote: »

Its really crazy the cost of this test now. I dont have a commercial but I can see its not fair. If you end up failing and needing re test, its the guts of €200 if counting alittle diesel cost also and thats every year.
Who decided that this increase was a good idea? I believe its some form of levy that has been added to the cost. Whats it for?

Its for you to PAY for the RSA's new big brother technology adventure.

Someone has to pay for the live CCTV links to Loughrea, the new computer IT systems, admin and transport officers, and who better than the customer?

It is a very belated kneejerk over-reaction to a number of accidents, 2 actually, Clara bus and Navan bus- according to the RSA's website.

Who decided was the RSA, then the Seanad, which had a "debate" on a number of issues of the proposed legislation and then without much ado signed off on it, as with every other law.

Take it up with your TD/Senator..........:rolleyes:

It's going to be very interesting to compare the First Presented Pass Rate prior to the introduction of all this compared to after...........

Plus, I am reliably informed that from now, if anything actually passes first time it is logged as suspicious by the RSA and passed on the Traffic Corp for attention should they come across it in the normal course of duty.

Says a lot about the RSA's faith in the VTN Doe system really.

So be content to fail, that's as long as you dont get a big "Fail-Dangerous" sticker put on the windscreen!

The Pheasant2

You'd be hard pressed to find a bigger load of dickheads than the RSA

mfceiling

Going Forward wrote: »

Its for you to PAY for the RSA's new big brother technology adventure.

Someone has to pay for the live CCTV links to Loughrea, the new computer IT systems, admin and transport officers, and who better than the customer?

It is a very belated kneejerk over-reaction to a number of accidents, 2 actually, Clara bus and Navan bus- according to the RSA's website.

Who decided was the RSA, then the Seanad, which had a "debate" on a number of issues of the proposed legislation and then without much ado signed off on it, as with every other law.

Take it up with your TD/Senator..........:rolleyes:

It's going to be very interesting to compare the First Presented Pass Rate prior to the introduction of all this compared to after...........

Plus, I am reliably informed that from now, if anything actually passes first time it is logged as suspicious by the RSA and passed on the Traffic Corp for attention should they come across it in the normal course of duty.

Says a lot about the RSA's faith in the VTN Doe system really.

So be content to fail, that's as long as you dont get a big "Fail-Dangerous" sticker put on the windscreen!

A 1 year old vw transporter with 8 or 9000 kms which passes 1st time will now be on the garda radar?

enricoh

squeezing businesses for more dough to pay for another quango!

someone should explain in small words to this government that every extra cost they lob on to small businesses reduces the chance of them taking on a new worker.

a lot of haulage companies are hanging on by their fingernails n these increases are obscene. ah well, maybe the next lot in will be different!

ljpg

well i sent an email to the rsa today to vent my anger at the new pricing,it probably wont change anything i feel just a tiny bit better for doing so.

Going Forward

"Based on UK estimates of the economic impact of such incidents, the cost to Ireland of congestion caused by commercial vehicle breakdowns could be in the range of €1 billion to €2 billion per annum."

How Deputy Sean Kenny (never heard of him) arrived at these figures is anyone's guess.

"Are those in the Department of the view that each day roadsides are littered with vehicles that have broken down? It is now the exception rather than the rule to come across a vehicle that has broken down. I accept, however, that commercial vehicles can break down.

........
This Bill, I believe, goes too far.

It is not as though there is no regulation in place already.

It is not as though people can drive a lorry without having it properly tested between the MOTs and the DOEs and all the other different tests, along with the Garda enforcing the rules of the road.

In introducing this Bill, are we saying the Garda is not doing its job in this area?

Are we insinuating the delivery of service in testing the vehicles was not up to standard because it was not uniform?

Are we proposing to centralise all testing facilities in Dublin, Limerick and Cork resulting in those needing to get agricultural or commercial vehicles tested having to travel many miles?

We are going too far with the legislation."

Part of Micheal Healy-Rae's submission to the debate.

Then we have:

"I expect the provisions in this Bill will not only have a hugely positive effect on road safety but will also improve our commercial reputation.(?) This legislation provides the groundwork for a radical change in the commercial vehicle and haulage sectors in Ireland and it will send a strong signal internationally that our country is striving to achieve the highest industry standards, particularly in regard to roadworthiness."

Junior Minister Alan Kelly's submission.

bucketybuck

Going Forward wrote: »

it will send a strong signal internationally that our country is striving to achieve the highest industry standards, particularly in regard to roadworthiness."[/I]

Junior Minister Alan Kelly's submission.

In fairness, Irish hauliers do currently have an awful reputation internationally for vehicle standards.

911s

Just taxing a company van, and noticed now have to include a declaration of commercial use, to be stamped at Garda station. Had to do this when vans were first registered, but haven't had to do it since then. Do these useless paper pushers in civil servant departments have nothing better to do, expecting us to take possibly half a day off work to get this form stamped, and also taking up the time of a Garda who has better things to do.
I have heard you sometimes have to sign a declaration at motor tax office, with some people using PPS no., but surely these are not witnessed by a Garda. As far as I know this declaration is not law, and is up to each council to determine if you are legitimate business user, so can they demand you take time off your work to go to Garda to stamp forms.
With all of the new laws, health & safety etc. I am starting to doubt the sanity of many who work in the civil service and implement these changes. There must be somewhere where an ordinary citizen can stand up to these faceless little officials (not Joe Duffy show!)

visual

Local council and TDs are the only one's that can change it.

Unfortunately they are hard of hearing unless its election time.

Red Nissan

911s wrote: »

Just taxing a company van, and noticed now have to include a declaration of commercial use, )

Ignore it. Taxed mine last week, I did not bring in the form, just the new cert.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Red Nissan

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Don't know how you are going for a DOE, we paid €98 and last year we just turned up again to show a few repaired parts.

A privately taxed commercial is a Car and thus should need a two yearly NCT [until ten years?]

Red Nissan

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

No, they have a couple of charges, if repairs are minor and done within a few days there is a lower fee or even a free inspection of just those repairs.

If the vehicle fails a retest, it may get one more chance, but more commonly one has to apply again from the beginning.

I had to take one of my vans to the DOE six times, I had the two mechanics fighting over it, one claiming it was passed already and fixed and the DOE centre failing it continually. That was that van's last DOE, business stopped that year and it's off the road and rusting ever since.

carr16v

1 brake pad. Who in there right mind replaces 1 brake pad. It doesn't save money, since you get all 4 in the box. Plus if 1 pad is worn, it suggests there is a problem with the caliper? Its standard practice to replace all brake pads per axle.

Bpmull

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

You need 111.16 euro to test the van. The fact it's taxed privately makes no difference so forget the comments about the nct you doe the van regardless but I'm sure you know that anyway. There is a charge for retest if they have to use equipment in the retest ie not a visual it's less than half the cost of the original test. If it's visual it's a free retest.

Bpmull

Red Nissan wrote: »

Don't know how you are going for a DOE, we paid €98 and last year we just turned up again to show a few repaired parts.

A privately taxed commercial is a Car and thus should need a two yearly NCT [until ten years?]

Your complete and utterly wrong there it's a van regardless and it's doe. Nct don't test vans even if there car derived vans. If it's commercial it goes for a doe no matter what way it's taxed and I know that for a fact.

Red Nissan

Bpmull wrote: »

Your complete and utterly wrong there it's a van regardless and it's doe. Nct don't test vans even if there car derived vans. If it's commercial it goes for a doe no matter what way it's taxed and I know that for a fact.

"Nct don't test vans even if there car derived vans" they do test SUVs even if they are van derived.

A van is a commercial vehicle. ALL SUVs into this country are CARs and CONVERTED to commercials.

The way it stands now is he is free not to test or tax his vehicle and there is no law that compels him to do so.

One cannot use a commercial vehicle for private use. Period. If he is already taxing it on the higher private scale he also is entitled to the two yearly benefit and lower cost of the NCT.

Except, for that loophole that is not covered by law, a commercial vehicle cannot be used privately.

Them's the dice, throw them and see.

Best wishes.

George Dalton

Red Nissan wrote: »

"Nct don't test vans even if there car derived vans" they do test SUVs even if they are van derived.

A van is a commercial vehicle. ALL SUVs into this country are CARs and CONVERTED to commercials.

The way it stands now is he is free not to test or tax his vehicle and there is no law that compels him to do so.

One cannot use a commercial vehicle for private use. Period. If he is already taxing it on the higher private scale he also is entitled to the two yearly benefit and lower cost of the NCT.

Except, for that loophole that is not covered by law, a commercial vehicle cannot be used privately.

Them's the dice, throw them and see.

Best wishes.

This is incorrect info in all aspects.

Bpmull

Red Nissan wrote: »

"Nct don't test vans even if there car derived vans" they do test SUVs even if they are van derived.

A van is a commercial vehicle. ALL SUVs into this country are CARs and CONVERTED to commercials.

The way it stands now is he is free not to test or tax his vehicle and there is no law that compels him to do so.

One cannot use a commercial vehicle for private use. Period. If he is already taxing it on the higher private scale he also is entitled to the two yearly benefit and lower cost of the NCT.

Except, for that loophole that is not covered by law, a commercial vehicle cannot be used privately.

Them's the dice, throw them and see.

Best wishes.

Any commercial be it commercial jeep van or car derived van gets a doe that's it no loop holes no nothing regardless of what way it's taxed that's from experience I know . The nct won't test commercial vehicles regardless of what way it's taxed.

A commercial vehicle is a commercial vehicle regardless of how it's taxed. As for you suggesting him not to test it well that's breaking the law and the gaurds will expect to see a cvrt disc in the window if its not in the window and they stop your in trouble your breaking the law the loop holes are gone.

jomoloney

tested one of the jeeps on wednesday and got the disc and cert in the post yesterday

far better than the old system getting the report in the centre and on the council then

€6 saved for the crw cert helps to soften the blow of the increase just a little

jomoloney

Bpmull wrote: »

You need 111.16 euro to test the van. The fact it's taxed privately makes no difference so forget the comments about the nct you doe the van regardless but I'm sure you know that anyway. There is a charge for retest if they have to use equipment in the retest ie not a visual it's less than half the cost of the original test. If it's visual it's a free retest.

the re test fee is un changed , €43 approx

Bpmull

jomoloney wrote: »

tested one of the jeeps on wednesday and got the disc and cert in the post yesterday

far better than the old system getting the report in the centre and on the council then

€6 saved for the crw cert helps to soften the blow of the increase just a little

I agree with everything you say there. I put my disc in the window yesterday it's nice to get a proper pass sheet in the day with actual figure so you can gauge what's good and what's boarder line.

Red Nissan

Bpmull wrote: »

I can't even understand the first part your saying.

Then you don't know the motor industry as much as you might think you do. No harm. You have your specialty and you are not giving bad advise, just not complete.

Give it another six months, nothing will change tomorrow or next month or even next year TBH. But changes will slowly filter through to enforcement and traffic offences and as people flock to buy commercial vehicles and tax them privately there will be another change and another witch hunt.

I'm driving 40 years this month and took advantage of all the loopholes over the years, private vehicles taxes commercially, commercial vehicle taxed privately, commercial vehicles taxed commercially and private vehicle taxed privately.

There is a time of advantage for each scenario.

Red Nissan

jomoloney wrote: »

€6 saved for the crw cert helps to soften the blow of the increase just a little

So you paid like twenty euro more? And saved €6 ??

My tax was only €330 this year, what was yours?

Bpmull

Red Nissan wrote: »

Then you don't know the motor industry as much as you might think you do. No harm. You have your specialty and you are not giving bad advise, just not complete.

Give it another six months, nothing will change tomorrow or next month or even next year TBH. But changes will slowly filter through to enforcement and traffic offences and as people flock to buy commercial vehicles and tax them privately there will be another change and another witch hunt.

I'm driving 40 years this month and took advantage of all the loopholes over the years, private vehicles taxes commercially, commercial vehicle taxed privately, commercial vehicles taxed commercially and private vehicle taxed privately.

There is a time of advantage for each scenario.

I know I'm right in what I am saying commercials are doed full stop. And your saying I don't know the motor industry this comes from someone who had a van which failed the doe 6 times. All that tells me is you don't have a clue about the most basic aspects of vehicle maintenance. Coming on this form suggesting people break the law through using your supposed loopholes. Ring nct and try and book a van in for a nct they will tell you to get it doed why do I know this I have two uncles in nct who test vehicles so they would know. Also I understand how jeeps come in as passenger vehicles and are converted to commercials they are still doed.

Interslice

Red Nissan wrote: »

Then you don't know the motor industry as much as you might think you do. No harm. You have your specialty and you are not giving bad advise, just not complete.

Give it another six months, nothing will change tomorrow or next month or even next year TBH. But changes will slowly filter through to enforcement and traffic offences and as people flock to buy commercial vehicles and tax them privately there will be another change and another witch hunt.

I'm driving 40 years this month and took advantage of all the loopholes over the years, private vehicles taxes commercially, commercial vehicle taxed privately, commercial vehicles taxed commercially and private vehicle taxed privately.

There is a time of advantage for each scenario.

Are insurance policies not void without a doe/cvt cert? I was waiting to do a retest for my van and they told me I wouldn't be covered in the event of an accident until it passed the doe. I was changing insurance companies at the time when my previous policy expired.

ubs69

:mad: rip off republic ,just done mine ,cost me nearly €200 on test and retest ,then another 100€ in January :mad:

Red Nissan

Bpmull wrote: »

Coming on this form suggesting people break the law through using your supposed loopholes.

So now I know and anyone else with modest industry knowledge will know now too. And it's a forum btw. And it's not breaking the law when no law covers it's, that's why it's a loophole in the first place.

Red Nissan

Interslice wrote: »

Are insurance policies not void without a doe/cvt cert? I was waiting to do a retest for my van and they told me I wouldn't be covered in the event of an accident until it passed the doe.

AVIVA cover me, covered me for maintenance and on the garage car loaner. Covered me to go to the retest too. BUT, that said at no time did they ever ask me for the mechanical state of my vehicle or the official state of the vehicle.

Interslice

Red Nissan wrote: »

AVIVA cover me, covered me for maintenance and on the garage car loaner. Covered me to go to the retest too. BUT, that said at no time did they ever ask me for the mechanical state of my vehicle or the official state of the vehicle.

You think if push came to shove and it was your fault in an accident they would have paid up if they found out you were taking advantage of a loophole?. I doubt it. An insurance company covering you in the event of an accident and taking money off you and sending you out a cert are two different things. I've never tested these theories but have often wondered.Not on the high horse here btw, under the old system I used to DOE the van every 15 months.

George Dalton

Red Nissan wrote: »

So now I know and anyone else with modest industry knowledge will know now too. And it's a forum btw. And it's not breaking the law when no law covers it's, that's why it's a loophole in the first place.

This loophole did exist in the past but these days you must have a DOE on a commercial regardless of how it is taxed.

Red Nissan

Interslice wrote: »

.Not on the high horse here btw, under the old system I used to DOE the van every 15 months.

Sure, they change everything, I'd bet that 70% of the people driving insured today are in a loophole that the payee does NOT know about.

Very good subject. My van is taxed commercially, has a DOE and is insured for commercial, social and domestic use.

Social and domestic use is prohibited for commercial vehicles for tax purposes.

Having a commercial tool in the boot of a private car, ie a screw driver or drill could invalidate the policy unless it was part of the supplied emergency tool kit ~ if you bought an emergency tool kit from Halford's and put it in the boot of a private car, one may find themselves not covered.

The trick is to make your vehicle compliant after a collision and before insurance inspection which does not take place at the accident scene usually.

jomoloney

Red Nissan wrote: »

So you paid like twenty euro more? And saved €6 ??

My tax was only €330 this year, what was yours?

No I saved a lot of fcuking hassle

not having to go and look for the rpt when I want to tax the vehicle next april

hopefully I will be able to do it online instead of having to send off to the tax office wait 3 weeks reply

having to drive there would cost about €50 between down time in wages and diesel

tax on that particular vehicle is €333 , a very small portion of the total we are paying anually

Yes I don't like paying increased costs no more than any one else but in this case the new system is actually saving me money