Neighbour Issue - Clapped out banger landed on front garden

camphor

There is a breach of planning permission if he has created a third parking space. The plastic sheeting will have to come up if the enforcement section of the planning department get onto it.

Scortho

camphor wrote: »

There is a breach of planning permission if he has created a third parking space. The plastic sheeting will have to come up if the enforcement section of the planning department get onto it.

It's a breach of planning permission to park on your front grass?

God some of the people in the motors forum are ****ed.

camphor

Scortho wrote: »

It's a breach of planning permission to park on your front grass?

God some of the people in the motors forum are ****ed.

Look at the exempt development regulations. Up to two planning spaces can be provided without planning permission in front of a house. A boat or a caravan can only be stored in a front garden for part of the year. Sheds etc cannot be put in front of a house. Front gardens may be private property but quite a lot of law restricts their use.

Scortho

camphor wrote: »

Look at the exempt development regulations. Up to two planning spaces can be provided without planning permission in front of a house. A boat or a caravan can only be stored in a front garden for part of the year. Sheds etc cannot be put in front of a house. Front gardens may be private property but quite a lot of law restricts their use.

Even if it's there for say 8 months.

So you can't lift grass at the front of your house to add an extra space with planning?

zenno

The OP only recently moves in to a new neighbourhood and tries to dictate to the other neighbours about their private business.

The OP should mind his/her own business as the car is more than likely going to be repaired/upgraded, because i can't imagine a sane person moving a dead heap of scrap into their garden just to use as an ornament.

OP, why don't you keep you're business to yourself and stop being a nosy dictating neighbour. Leave the man in peace to do up his car.

athtrasna

Am I right in thinking this is a shared lawn between two houses with an "invisible wall" down the middle? If so then the OP has every right to be annoyed. Plastic or no plastic, fuel and other chemicals will leech into the soil and could kill the grass in front of both houses.

zenno

athtrasna wrote: »

Am I right in thinking this is a shared lawn between two houses with an "invisible wall" down the middle? If so then the OP has every right to be annoyed. Plastic or no plastic, fuel and other chemicals will leech into the soil and could kill the grass in front of both houses.

Who says the car has a leak of any kind ? you are adding things yourself that are not known, you are assuming this to be the case.

jack1000

If it was my car and the neighbour complained about what i was doing on my property. I would leave it there I might even go and get another one to sit beside it and tell them to go to the council and see how they get on with getting them moved. As for planning for more than 2 cars, half the houses that got cobblelock done have space for more than 2 cars. Are they going to chase them all up.

athtrasna

zenno wrote: »

Who says the car has a leak of any kind ? you are adding things yourself that are not known, you are assuming this to be the case.

Have you ever seen the ground under a car that hasn't been moved in a while, there are almost always stains on the ground?

zenno

athtrasna wrote: »

Have you ever seen the ground under a car that hasn't been moved in a while, there are almost always stains on the ground?

A bit of rust stain from the rain washing over the car, but this wouldn't be sufficient enough to cause damage to both gardens at all. No-one here knows if there is any oil/petrol/other fluids leaking from the car so it's a moot point.

Wellactually

My thoughts exactly zenno and was going to add that but thought id posted enough already, possible the neighbour has lived there for years and now 9 months in its actually him getting grief from the newcomer.

Getting interesting now, OP can you tell us is there a wall separating your gardens or do you 'share' the same?

Ray Palmer

Wellactually wrote: »

My thoughts exactly zenno and was going to add that but thought id posted enough already, possible the neighbour has lived there for years and now 9 months in its actually him getting grief from the newcomer.

Getting interesting now, OP can you tell us is there a wall separating your gardens or do you 'share' the same?

Just because you live somewhere a long time and did something doesn't mean you are allowed do it. It doesn't matter if the neighbour is new or not. You are not entitled to do as you please.

Do band practice in your garage beside some deaf old person and a new family move in to the house they have every right to complain about the noise for example.

zenno

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Just because you live somewhere a long time and did something doesn't mean you are allowed do it. It doesn't matter if the neighbour is new or not. You are not entitled to do as you please.

Do band practice in your garage beside some deaf old person and a new family move in to the house they have every right to complain about the noise for example.

You make it sound like this person is doing something illegal of which he isn't, it's his private property so he can put the car there if he so wishes.

camphor

zenno wrote: »

You make it sound like this person is doing something illegal of which he isn't, it's his private property so he can put the car there if he so wishes.

He may well be doing something illegal. Just because he is on private property does not mean he can do what he likes.

wgk

Hi all

Thanks for the replies - emotive subject!

There are no walls between any of the houses and they are all fairly uniform outside the front, i.e. all the houses are the same colour, people don't have hedging etc...so if you are standing at the top of the road, you can see right down to the bottom, that is until you see a car strewn diagonally across one of the lawns.

Ray Palmer

zenno wrote: »

You make it sound like this person is doing something illegal of which he isn't, it's his private property so he can put the car there if he so wishes.

Just because something is private property doesn't mean you can do what you like on it.

There are laws and by-laws about use of land so he very well may be breaking them. AFAIK you can have something like this temporarily after that you can be fined and compelled to sort it out.

djimi

camphor wrote: »

He may well be doing something illegal. Just because he is on private property does not mean he can do what he likes.

The problem here is that the definition of litter that would make it illegal is very ambiguous and entirely subjective. For example, I could argue that my neighbours Fiat Multipla is unsightly and nauseating, which by the legal definition would make it litter if parked where it can be seen from a public place. Of course it isnt, but to me it certainly fits the definition. Can I then argue that it should be parked where I cannot see it?

The same applies here. Unless the car is literally scrap (doors hanging off, windows broken, empty shell etc) then the fact that the OP considers it to be a "clapped out banger" does not mean that the neighbour cannot park it on their property. The fact that it is parked on grass as opposed to tarmac is neither here nor there. I dont think the neighbour would have too hard a time arguing that it is their car and that they have a right to park it as they please on their own property; certainly initially anyway (if it is left there to deteriorate over a period of time then perhaps the OP would have more of a case).

Wellactually

If theres no divider then i think getting one would be a good idea, am sure you could approach that, maybe yous could even split the cost if it makes you happier and leaves him in peace.

If you think of it from a visual point then it might even make your place look more attactive if his is not painted shabby and neglected looking.


I think thats your best bet at the moment, if he says no to splitting then either do it yourself or get proper legal advice, personally id just to the wall and leave him to it.


Good luck with it anyway

Ray Palmer

djimi wrote: »

The same applies here. Unless the car is literally scrap (doors hanging off, windows broken, empty shell etc) then the fact that the OP considers it to be a "clapped out banger" does not mean that the neighbour cannot park it on their property. The fact that it is parked on grass as opposed to tarmac is neither here nor there. I dont think the neighbour would have too hard a time arguing that it is their car and that they have a right to park it as they please on their own property; certainly initially anyway (if it is left there to deteriorate over a period of time then perhaps the OP would have more of a case).

You are just wrong on this. You can't use for grass as a drive way legally. The car can be deemed to be scrap or litter by the council. Just because it is private property doesn't mean you can do what you like. This is something you can choose not to believe but it doesn't make your belief fact.

The same way you cannot start using your home as a business premises.

There was a guy running a repair business on our road. He parked clapped out cars around his house. The council came along told him to move all the cars including the ones in his drive and fined him when he put one back in his driveway a month later. It wasn't on the grass either.

djimi

Define clapped out cars? I have already said that if it is in obvious scrap state then it shouldnt be there, but if its running under its own power then its not clapped out; no matter how unsightly a neighbour might perceive it to be. Or have the councils now got the power to tell people what car they should be driving?

Fair enough if it cant be parked on grass then all the neighbour will do is move it to the tarmac area of the drive.

camphor

djimi wrote: »

The problem here is that the definition of litter that would make it illegal is very ambiguous and entirely subjective. For example, I could argue that my neighbours Fiat Multipla is unsightly and nauseating, which by the legal definition would make it litter if parked where it can be seen from a public place. Of course it isnt, but to me it certainly fits the definition. Can I then argue that it should be parked where I cannot see it?

You are getting this wrong. A person is allowed park their car at their house. provided it is properly parked there is no problem. The neighbours views on the aesthetics are irrelevant. The issue is that only two cars are allowed to be parked at a house without planning permission. A front garden cannot be used as a store. A car which hasn't been taxed is being stored. It cannot be argued that it is parked because it can't be legally brought onto the road.
This is a planning issue and not a litter issue.
If there are no number plates the council will consider the car litter. If there are number plates they will make the registered owner deal with the car properly.
If the o/p tethered a horse in his front garden the neighbour would noot be too happy.

zenno

Just reading over some highlights of this so-called problem again... The only thing that does worry me in regards to this neighbours car, is the rag sticking out of the petrol tank, and this is just stupidity on the owners part. Surely the guy could easily have purchased a petrol cap.

djimi

camphor wrote: »

You are getting this wrong. A person is allowed park their car at their house. provided it is properly parked there is no problem. The neighbours views on the aesthetics are irrelevant. The issue is that only two cars are allowed to be parked at a house without planning permission. A front garden cannot be used as a store. A car which hasn't been taxed is being stored. It cannot be argued that it is parked because it can't be legally brought onto the road.
This is a planning issue and not a litter issue.
If there are no number plates the council will consider the car litter. If there are number plates they will make the registered owner deal with the car properly.
If the o/p tethered a horse in his front garden the neighbour would noot be too happy.

Nowhere has the OP said that they already have two cars parked out front? If the issue is with it being parked on the grass then best case scenario they will just move it onto the drive.

Im not really sure what the difference is between being parked or stored, or how it is relevant here? The neighbour has just bought the car by the sounds of it; it wouldnt be too hard for them to argue that they are in the process of fixing it up so that it can be taxed and NCTd to make it road legal.

Again, nowhere has the OP said that the car doesnt have number plates?

camphor

djimi wrote: »

Nowhere has the OP said that they already have two cars parked out front? If the issue is with it being parked on the grass then best case scenario they will just move it onto the drive.

The o/p said each house has two parking spaces.

djimi wrote: »

Im not really sure what the difference is between being parked or stored.

Obviously.

djimi wrote: »

How it is relevant here.

The question goes to use. A roadworthy car is parked, an unroadworthy car is stored. They are different uses. One allowed, one not.

djimi wrote: »

Again, nowhere has the OP said that the car doesnt have number plates?

Agreed. That is relevant to litter not planning.

beauf

While annoying I don't see how someone isn't entitle to fix up a car in their own garden. Unless it sits there for years, or can be seen to be polluting or hazardous.

djimi

camphor wrote: »

The o/p said each house has two parking spaces.

And? Doesnt mean that both are in use.

camphor wrote: »

The question goes to use. A roadworthy car is parked, an unroadworthy car is stored. They are different uses. One allowed, one not.

So if I have a car that is aesthetically perfect but has failed the NCT because it has a hole in the exhaust (or something to that effect) then by definition it is not roadworthy and Im not allowed to park it in my driveway? Youre going to have to back that one up Im afraid!

camphor

djimi wrote: »

And? Doesnt mean that both are in use.

It means providing any further parking is a breach of the planning laws as has happened.


So if I have a car that is aesthetically perfect but has failed the NCT because it has a hole in the exhaust (or something to that effect) then by definition it is not roadworthy and Im not allowed to park it in my driveway? Youre going to have to back that one up Im afraid! [/QUOTE]
I don't know why you are afraid! You can't just leave it there. You should fix the hole in the exhaust if you intend using the car. The procedure with breaches of the planning code is that the council issue a warning notice and if it is not complied with, issue proceedings. that will leave enough time to get the exhaust fixed before proceedings are issued.

djimi

camphor wrote: »

It means providing any further parking is a breach of the planning laws as has happened.

Fair enough. Thats are assuming that the neighbour is already parking two cars.

camphor wrote: »

I don't know why you are afraid! You can't just leave it there. You should fix the hole in the exhaust if you intend using the car. The procedure with breaches of the planning code is that the council issue a warning notice and if it is not complied with, issue proceedings. that will leave enough time to get the exhaust fixed before proceedings are issued.

Which will take some time. I have already stated that if the car is left there to deteriorate for a prolonged period of time then the neighbour will have less of a defence (or possibly no defence). The car however has only been recently left there (if I understand the OP correctly), so I dont really see the council jumping to act immediately unless the car is posing an immediate danger, except maybe to have the car moved from the grass if indeed them deem that an issue worthy of their efforts. The OP will eventually get their way assuming the car isnt sorted in the short term, but it wont be this week or next.

Stheno

Has anyone a link to these planning laws stating that only two cars can be parked in a driveway?

There are three parked in both mine and my neighbours house pretty much permanently, sometimes four next door.

camphor

djimi wrote: »

Fair enough. Thats are assuming that the neighbour is already parking two cars.

No it doesn't. He already has two spaces. He is creating a third which is not allowed.

djimi wrote: »

Which will take some time. I have already stated that if the car is left there to deteriorate for a prolonged period of time then the neighbour will have less of a defence (or possibly no defence). The car however has only been recently left there (if I understand the OP correctly), so I dont really see the council jumping to act immediately unless the car is posing an immediate danger, except maybe to have the car moved from the grass if indeed them deem that an issue worthy of their efforts. The OP will eventually get their way assuming the car isnt sorted in the short term, but it wont be this week or next.

That fact that the council won't jump immediately or at any time doesn't mean the law is not being broken and the o/p doesn't have a remedy. Councils routinely ignore minor and trivial breaches of the planning code unless someone complains. The o/p has a legitimate complain based on planning, that is the point and always has been.