Petty Sessions records - any use?

L1011

Considering using the credit card I haven't previously had a free trial against :P to get a FMP trial again to poke at the few records they have that other sites don't.

Anyone found anything of use in the Petty Sessions records and is there a better way to search them than just putting in a name?

Two things of interest to me would be seeing if my RIC ancestor turns up on the prosecution side, if that was even recorded; and another ancestor who was a court clerk. I wouldn't be surprised to find a few specific individuals in trouble either! The RIC man was in what is now NI for most of his career which I believe FMP doesn't have.

edit: I'm particularly interested in being able to browse as I'm not sure all names have been transcribed. I have found someone getting five years for breaking in to my g-g-g-uncle's house and stealing two coats - same name as a g-grandfather which is how I hit it.

traceyrogers

I have found it easier to search for the details on Familysearch,and then enter possible family members on FMP with the year and place once I have them.

I found details of an unknown birthplace, physical descriptions etc. one side of the family spent an annual week in jail for being drunk and disorderly, whilst the other side seems to get involved in land trespass.

P. Breathnach

It's a bit hit-and-miss. Some records have not yet been digitised, and I guess that some books have been lost.

I scored one particularly good hit: an ancestor was jailed on a charge of deserting from the army in the middle of the 19th century, and that led me to a missing chapter in his story.

I also got some mildly interesting footnotes, including a great-grandmother seeming to be involved in a row on the street (case not proceeded with, so formally her record is clean).

L1011

I've done a fair bit of digging now and so far all I've found is a 1s fine for having pigs wandering on the road. Seeing as I've an RIC man, a Revenue sheriff, a court clerk and a bunch of senior railway staff amongst the ancestors I think there might be a bit of an authoritarian streak...

Alicat

I've really only found one good use for it so far, with one particular branch of the family because they were the only Moriarty family in Cootehill so they were easy to track.

Very ehhh, "colourful" bunch! Not sending kids to school, letting their asses out in the road, fighting with people on the street, the father of the family fighting with a male neighbour on regular occasions and even the mother fighting with the neighbour's wife! And finally, up in court for fighting with each other!

RGM

Alicat wrote: »

And finally, up in court for fighting with each other!

I have that one as well. Three brothers fined for assaulting each other.

Joe10000

I found one of a great uncle cattle dealer who was fined for cruelty to animals. He cut open a cows throat with a pen knife at a mart. Charming.

pedroeibar1

Curious to know if anyone has searched local papers to see if the more serious offences were reported? A bit of time on old local newspapers is inevitably well-spent.

My paternal line is 'clear' in the petty sessions but I did find reports of a pub brawl in the Freemans Journal. I've found some strange goings on in collateral branches, one guy breaking a shop window (his own) while drunk and disorderly, another being charged with an 'act of gross indecency' so I assume it was an activity similar to Oscar's - it was not reported in the press.

On the maternal side, I stumbled on a piece carried by a couple of papers, my 2nd greatgrandfather (2GG) in 1858 was sued by Y over a wager in a cock-fight. X & Y agreed to fight two cocks at £5 a side - the money was entrusted to my 2GG as stakeholder. Before the fight had concluded, and while the advantage evidently lay with X's's bird, Y withdrew his, and cautioned my 2GG against giving the stakes to his opponent. However my 2GG handed them to X. The Recorder stated that 'the amusement out of which the case originated was illegal', but he decided on giving a decree for £5, with costs, the service of the decree to be delayed for a month, in order to afford the parties an opportunity to come to an amicable arrangement.

shanew

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

Curious to know if anyone has searched local papers to see if the more serious offences were reported? A bit of time on old local newspapers is inevitably well-spent.
....

My ancestors and relations were too well behaved to be involved in anything like this !!

Two interesting newspaper mentions of ancestors that come to mind reported about 100 years apart, one at the receiving end of a crime the other the alleged offender. The older found after days of browsing King's County Chronicle where my gtgtgt-grandfather was shot at in Co. Offaly in 1847 'by a miscreant' - luckily the shot missed or I wouldn't be here. This gtgtgt-grandfather was a land steward, so probably not a popular person at the time. He and his family moved to Dublin soon after this.

The second took place during the second world War, was about a Grandfather reportedly seen speeding at night without lights through Shankill. Sounds feasible as he lived in Dublin, and frequently played golf in Bray.. his defence, which was accepted, was that the car had been locked in the garage, due to lack of petrol. My grandmother did most if not all of the driving in the family (she apparently was one of the first women in Ireland with driving licence), so does sound plausible, but I have my suspicions..

Other legal issues I've found reported in newspapers for family are public house licence applications, and summons and a few fines for opening their pub after hours.

pedroeibar1

shanew wrote: »

....... my gtgtgt-grandfather was shot at in Co. Offaly in 1847 'by a miscreant' - luckily the shot missed or I wouldn't be here. This gtgtgt-grandfather was a land steward, so probably not a popular person at the time. He and his family moved to Dublin soon after this.

That year (1847) was particularly violent, as a result of Famine poverty. The Temporary Relief of Destitute Persons (Ireland) Act, generally known as the ‘Soup Kitchen Act’ became law in February 1847 and the Coercion Act 1847 was brought in to ‘police’ the violence, along with stipendiary magistrates who inevitably provided the authorities with the ‘required’ ruling. Prior to that it was difficult to get local juries to convict - in one case a judge is said to have dismissed a defendant with the words, “You have been acquitted by a Limerick jury, and you may now leave the dock without any other stain upon your character!’ Counties Clare, Limerick and Tipp were the worst – and there were a few murders in King’s County also. Firearms offenses seem to have been de rigeur - interesting Parliamentary info on it here

Garvey of Kings Co is here if that is 'your' man.

shanew

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

.......Counties Clare, Limerick and Tipp were the worst – and there were a few murders in King’s County also. Firearms offenses seem to have been de rigeur - interesting Parliamentary info on it here

Garvey of Kings Co is here if that is 'your' man.

thanks for the links, I'd searched Hansard before but forgotten about it - will have a read through those.

My gtgtgt Grandfather was James Cathcart, he was Land Steward to Charles Mullock of Bellair (aka Ballyard) just West of Clara . I'll have to dig up the article.. as far as I can remember it mentioned that he had been shot at before.

googled eyes

A 2nd great grand uncle of mine was arrested age 14 for discharging missiles. Then a few years later for being drunk in the street.

Waitsian

googled eyes wrote: »

A 2nd great grand uncle of mine was arrested age 14 for discharging missiles. Then a few years later for being drunk in the street.

"...discharging missiles?" :eek:

Is that how it was written up in the records or are you just showing off with your wordplay? :P

That sounds very sophisticated for what must have been some time ago! It conjures up images of SAMs or mortars. Was he pegging stones?

L1011

Sum total of what I found were:

1x victim of a burglary
4x loose animals (two ancestors, 3 and 1)
1x possible but not 100% sure fight with a neighbour

The records where I'd want to see the prosecuting side aren't available anywhere that I can find (Arranmore Courthouse, which is long since closed so god only knows where they went; and then NI after that) and they end before my g-g-grandfather became a court clerk also.

googled eyes

Turns out my great-great grandfather comes up 32 times! Mostly for loose animals. But a couple for fighting with neighbour. They must have hated each other


Himself and his young son are the only ones in the town with the name during the time frame(on the census.)


EDIT : I'm descended from a bunch of rogues :eek:

sakdolan

MYOB, Hi, I think FMP is way better than ancestry but sometimes it misses surnames so you need an eagle eye. I found some of my ancestors by searching the landlord name and (painstakingly) going through all those listed on the petty sessions. Mine were Poachers... :-) Best of luck with the research.

Ninjakettle

I presume FMP is adding more courthouses all the time. Is there any way of knowing what would have been the local Petty Session Court house for a particular townland?

So for instance, GG grandparents come from a galway village nested between several towns that i expect each housed a court at the time (none on FMP yet). Was the juristiction of the courts mapped perhaps?

Petty Sessions CourtPetty Sessions Courts