XP Windows Update Crisis!

Mango Joe

Ok - So have been asked to fix up 6 older machines - they're for word processing and a bit of occasional web searching etc. so no big ask workload wise. They also have XP licenses so it would be happy days to get XP installed & updated (ie. patched) with MS security essentials.

- The problem I'm having is that after installing OS & service packs windows update is extremely flakey. on my second system now and only got first one sorted after hours of messing and installing *** - then running MS fixit etc. The problem is that windows update either just hangs on 'checking for new updates' and never moves from there - or else finds 20 of them but won't install them.

I've wasted too much time on this and am worried that even if I get systems updated they wont update correctly for end-user in future.

Have I done something wrong? Should system drivers be installed before/after service packs - I am totally perplexed - I do know from reading every MS KB on earth in the last 3 days that its mainly down to poor standards, processes, quality and documentation on Microsoft's part, too many times I've tried to follow their fixes to find out they've not bothered to maintain the files on the server and in one case an essential file was unavailable unless you went through windows validation and then the app involved comes back saying its no longer in use - ie. no you can't have this essential file because we are incompetent and do not care about our customer.

- Sorry for the rant - am so annoyed and tired, with so much time wasted - I know people out there a building XP systems daily - could someone please advise me what I am doing wrong here so I can finish this and go back to normal pleasant life - I'd be obliged :-)

Saganist

I normally install the base OS, add drivers then update. Not sure what your issue is. However.

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-IE/windows/products/lifecycle

XP updates will no longer be available after April 2014. Maybe try a different OS if you want longer term updates ?

Torqay

I simply update (slipstream) my various Windows installation disks with the latest security updates every two or three months to avoid just this dilemma of yours.

If those machgines are identical, I'd set up the first computer and ghost the rest of them. With XP it's easy to change the license keys later according to the CoA sticker.

I also have a driver pack DVD ready so I don't have to waste hours on the web tracking down device drivers.

yoyo

Just worth pointing out XP is EOL (End of life support) in less than a years time. After April 2014, Microsoft won't support even critical security issues which may arise targeting XP. I do worry hearing XP machines being used for internet activities come next year they will be more vulnerable. A nice user friendly Linux OS like Mint may be a better option for you op, particularly if it's only for occasional browsing/document construction. Just my 2cs worth

Nick

Torqay

yoyo wrote: »

Just worth pointing out XP is EOL

Do we get to hear this now with every Windows XP-related question?

Gadgetman496

Another option might be WSUS (Windows off-line updates). It saves lots of time and I find it great after doing clean installs

AnCatDubh

dodgy internet connection or something wrong with the network setup?

Had something similar in the last day or so. Wipe and resinstall xp on old machine. Apply service pack. Reinstall software. All fine. Apply windows update and it clapped out multiple times.

Weak internet wifi connection. Poor for web browsing but Windows Update had little to no tolerance of it.

Conected to a new stronger signal wifi connection and whoosh! all resolved.

I know its basic but worth checking out if you need to use windows update (rather than some of the solutions others use outlined earlier on the thread)

yoyo

Torqay wrote: »

Do we get to hear this now with every Windows XP-related question?

Well, op wants a computer setup for basic web browsing use and they have just happened to install XP recently. Obviously if op had XP installed a while and the query was different I wouldn't put out this suggestion.
Little point going to the effort of configuring an OS which looses support in less than 12 months.. And no it will not wise to use XP online post EOL, as you know yourself hackers will be likely be saving up exploits beforehand ready to strike when support for XP ends.
It's just advice at the end of the day, but if your starting fresh nowadays it's worth ditching XP for either Windows 7, 8 or a free Linux distro.

Nick

biko

Torqay wrote: »

If those machgines are identical, I'd set up the first computer and ghost the rest of them.

This is what I'd do too. Just update one and make sure it's perfect, then ghost over to the others.

riclad

I Think for many people who just use a browser ,youtube,fb,

simply installing mint ,linux distro ,is simpler .
more secure ,more private .
especially if you are using an older pc, eg dual core,or pentium 4 cpu.
WHEN you install xp, theres loads of updates to install.
i never had a problem installing updates on an xp pc.
but even on a fast connection,you could spend 40 plus minutes ,downloading,installing updates.
i would not recommend win8 to anyone, if you can get windows 7.
MANY windows programs have backdoors for surveillance purposes,
according to gaurdian uk snowden documents.

I THINK professionals admins, have all the updates on 1 dvd,
install on 1 pc, and can copy all the updates onto the other 5 pcs,over the network
eg have a slipstream update disc.

COMPANYS with xp pcs with a net connection should be upgrading to win 7,
as they,ll be vunerable to malware ,virus,es etc after winxp support is ended.
i install xp, then install any drivers needed .
then install sp2 ,and any updates needed.
you can install sp2 from dvd, usb drive.
NO need to download it from each pc.

basically ms probably want to focus, on win7,win8,
winxp support is not a high priority.


WINXP is legacy os, they want people to upgrade the os.

Torqay

yoyo wrote: »

Well, op wants a computer setup for basic web browsing use and they have just happened to install XP recently. Obviously if op had XP installed a while and the query was different I wouldn't put out this suggestion.
Little point going to the effort of configuring an OS which looses support in less than 12 months.. And no it will not wise to use XP online post EOL, as you know yourself hackers will be likely be saving up exploits beforehand ready to strike when support for XP ends.
It's just advice at the end of the day, but if your starting fresh nowadays it's worth ditching XP for either Windows 7, 8 or a free Linux distro.

Nick

I appreaciate you concern and indeed your crusade for the betterment of the interwebs but I'm sure, anyone remotely affiliated with the IT business has heard by now, that Microsoft will discontinue support for Windows XP next year.

OP wants to set up a batch of 6 office machines and is looking for a solution to streamline the rather time-consuming process of patching each new installation.

Introducing Linux into some office environment is anything but "nice and userfriendly" if you don't have competent inhouse support and it certainly is no less time consuming (believe me, I've been there and done that). As for Linux Mint, it is quite the resource-hungry distro and not exactly what one wants to use on older machines. "XP is dead, get Linux" is not always the solution.

riclad

YOU Can get older versions of mint that work on older pcs.
MAYBE explain to the user, business owner , it would be better ,safer to install windows 7,
winxp is near end of support ,
IT,LL be vunerable to virus,es and hackers .

at least on pcs that are connected to the web.
its like buying, fitting a new front door with a faulty lock on it.

On a old pc thats just used for webbrowsing .email ,you could install mint 7,
openoffice, or libreoffice,
install firefox , chrome browser.
very little training needed.
Maybe spending a few minutes ,showing them the menu,layout,
how to acess files on drive c, or dvd drive.

Gadgetman496

Well, there are still a massive number of machines worldwide running XP.

If the end users are savvy enough I don't think it's a life threatening scenario to be honest. Some people over exaggerate it to the point that it reminds me of that old y2K the end of the computer world is cumming crisis that never really amounted to much more than IT companies making a quick buck :P

Anyway, even if the majority of users worldwide decide to ditch XP altogether? the few remaining users will be so little that it won't be worth the potential hackers time going after them............. :pac:

yoyo

Torqay wrote: »

I appreaciate you concern and indeed your crusade for the betterment of the interwebs but I'm sure, anyone remotely affiliated with the IT business has heard by now, that Microsoft will discontinue support for Windows XP next year.

While true there are also many who are just shrugging it off as being no big deal, which it kinda is. If introducing Linux machines into the Office environment would be such a big issue then rather than using XP an upgrade to a supported product* may be the better choice.
It would also be even more wise as bringing an insecure OS onto the network is not a good idea as I'm sure you know .
Anyway that's enough of the off topic chat. I was just putting it out there as a word of advice. It isn't advisable to use any OS after EOL (Be it Mac, Windows etc.)
* Support is ending very soon for XP, even though it's still supported currently.

Nick

dilallio

Hi OP,
I've had exactly the same issue with the last 2 XP re-installs.

Instead of accessing Windows Update or Microsoft Update directly from Control Panel, open Security Center and take the option to 'Check for the latest updates from Windows Update'. When I ran the update from here, it ran successfully, and after a few updates, it fixed itself.

Must look into that offline update - that looks like a great option for future re-installs.

Gadgetman496

Panic everyone only 185 days to go :eek:

Seriously though, I was in a local primary school a couple of weeks ago and I kid you not, they had a computer Lab containing 12 PC's, one had XP and the other 11 had......... wait for it........ "Windows 98"!!! :eek: I thought I was in a museum All of them were connect to the net too.

Don't know if that was down to budget, the Dept or they just couldn't be arsed but I seriously question whomever was looking after their setup.

Gadgetman496

dilallio wrote: »

Must look into that offline update - that looks like a great option for future re-installs.

Yep, it works for all flavours of Windows and Office too. It also increments to existing updates you have made when you re-run it and newer ones are available. You end up with one executable that installs the lot without the need for Internet access.

Torqay

yoyo wrote: »

It would also be even more wise as bringing an insecure OS onto the network is not a good idea as I'm sure you know .

You're not referring to XP as an "insecure OS", now, are you?

Properly patched and configured, XP is no less secure than any of its sucessors. Using such a computer in a corparate network is certainly less problematic than the ever so popular BYOD idea. Great for the bean counters, a nightmare for the IT department

PropJoe10

Just make sure you dont have an antivirus running when trying to download updates, had a few problems with this myself recently. Might not help, but just thought I'd throw that in there. Disable any antivirus packages and try again.

Regarding the EOL issue, I wont be doing any more XP fresh installs myself from now on, I dont see the point seeing as XP will be obsolete come next April. If the machines are just for browsing and word processing, may I suggest Lubuntu with Libre Office. Or Linux Mint as Nick suggested. Both good solid alternatives.

Cuddlesworth

gadgetman496 wrote: »

Don't know if that was down to budget, the Dept or they just couldn't be arsed but I seriously question whomever was looking after their setup.

I was of the understanding that as a school, they can get Windows OS's for free.

The EOL is a really big thing, something we haven't seen yet. When windows 98/2000 went EOL, they didn't have a very large user base and the internet wasn't as dispersed and widely used. Windows XP still has a huge portion of market share.

I'd say every botnet maker out there is sitting on a bunch of zero day's that they are not arsed exploiting yet.

yoyo

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

I'd say every botnet maker out there is sitting on a bunch of zero day's that they are not arsed exploiting yet.

And this is the exact reason I think it's necessary to inform people of the EOL. The security issues XP may face may not only effect the machine itself but also the wider internet. Nothing to do with not being arsed to exploit them yet, run the exploit at a time you know it won't be patched.

You're not referring to XP as an "insecure OS", now, are you?

Not yet, although any EOL OS is insecure. That's pretty obvious . No matter how much patching you do, it won't stop security holes being found and exploited. Also AV manufacturers will likely stop supporting XP soon after EOL with newer versions.
The RDP exploit there recently for XP/Server 2003 machines was very serious and caused major problems for many users. Server 08 was also effected, but to a lesser extent afaik

Nick

Torqay

yoyo wrote: »

The RDP exploit there recently for XP/Server 2003 machines was very serious and caused major problems for many users.

Easily remedied with the few mouse clicks it takes to disable RDP. Wait until TCM 2.0 becomes mainstream with new devices. A backdoor build into the hardware and no chance to opt out? I'd say we ain't seen nothing yet.

riclad

There,ll be be millions of pcs on the net running unprotected winxp,
with old security updates on them,
waiting to be used as botnets.

This effects the security of any website on the web,
in regard to ddos attacks.
I don,t think irish teachers are properly trained in it, and there,s little co ordination between schools.
IT would be great if Microsoft could offer free installation of win7 in all schools .
IT seems our school it education program is 10 years behind other country.
eg
heres a pentium 4 pc, learn how to use msword .
IS there any one in charge of security for pcs in irish schools.?
it seems to be random, re what pcs they use,
Depending of is there a few quid left over to buy a new pc.

200motels

I know this is off topic but a friend of a friend of mine recently had a problem with his PC and asked would I have a look at it, I said I would and lo and behold he was running Windows ME on it, it was an old e-machines desktop but not bad, so I checked it for virus and malware by booting into bitdefender CD and found 134 infected files, the thing was riddled, I told him don't use it on the net again, he told me he'll keep using it until it packs in.