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Athlete of the year

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    #2
    tunney
    Registered Users Posts: 12,583 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    bryangiggsy wrote: »
    Am absolutely baffled that Kevin Thornton is not on this list.

    http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/BYWYL9X

    Emmmm why? Series of good performances but nothing, bar the odd man crush, that would get him on the list.


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    #3
    bryangiggsy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,553 ✭✭✭bryangiggsy


    tunney wrote: »
    Emmmm why? Series of good performances but nothing, bar the odd man crush, that would get him on the list.


    EMMMMMM because he has dominated age group racing in Ireland this year were no one else has come close and was 6th overall amateur in the World Championships in London


    Errrmmm if you dont think KT should be on here am sure you believe the same re LCD?


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    #4
    catweazle
    Registered Users Posts: 3,830 ✭✭✭catweazle


    I would have to agree - it looks to me like if you are a pro athlete they will put you in (perhaps to make sure they attend the awards night)- certainly Thorntons achievements look far greater than Conor Murphy and Bryan Keane this year. A couple of top tens in World cup events for Conor and a silver in one for Bryan versus unbeaten in Ireland all year (by age graders), a 1st In Europeans and a 6th in Worlds. Perhaps the most dominant age grader year ever.

    I would have him in there ahead of Michael Delaney as well.

    Liams achievement was great but is Ironman Copenhagan within TI's remit, I would have thought a WTC performance would have fallen outside their thoughts

    Anyways a nothing story really in fairness I don't think any of those nominated or not nominated will care too much


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    #5
    pgibbo
    Registered Users Posts: 4,377 Mod ✭✭✭✭pgibbo


    tunney wrote: »
    Emmmm why? Series of good performances but nothing, bar the odd man crush, that would get him on the list.

    You forgot that he's from Galway and we all know West is best ;)


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    #6
    tunney
    Registered Users Posts: 12,583 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    pgibbo wrote: »
    You forgot that he's from Galway and we all know West is best ;)

    And since everyone is related over there he'd be a shoe in


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    #7
    sconhome
    Registered Users Posts: 5,468 ✭✭✭sconhome


    tunney wrote: »
    And since everyone is related over there he'd be a shoe in

    Not everyone!


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    #8
    bryangiggsy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,553 ✭✭✭bryangiggsy


    bryangiggsy wrote: »
    EMMMMMM because he has dominated age group racing in Ireland this year were no one else has come close and was 6th overall amateur in the World Championships in London


    Errrmmm if you dont think KT should be on here am sure you believe the same re LCD?


    No response on this @Tunney? Or are you pleading the fifth amendment?


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    #9
    sconhome
    Registered Users Posts: 5,468 ✭✭✭sconhome


    Who nominated the athletes onto the list?

    I'm presuming that there was something circulated to bring some names to the top of the pile? I don't remember seeing it though.


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    #10
    Huff n Puff
    Registered Users Posts: 164 ✭✭Huff n Puff


    These are the athlete of the year awards and the achievements of professional triathletes on the world stage are a huge step up from being good in Ireland and these achievements need to be rewarded. I mean no disrespect to Kevin as I am also putting myself down by that comment too, and Kevin is miles better than I am.

    How many professional triathletes featured in the age group world champs? Answer = 0. There is a reason for this. Kevin has certainly dominated on the local scene this year but you can't go comparing age group triathletes to professionals. All those professional triathletes deserve to be on it. They train harder than the rest of us and are the best we have. They are performing at a far higher level and getting decent results. Aileen should be a nailed on cert for overall victory this year.

    The only people on that list that you might argue could be replaced are Liam Dolan or Michael Delaney. Both Kevin and Liam are fine triathletes and both would have been on the list in other years. It's hard to overlook Liam's achievement in breaking the Irish record but then again Kevin was on a different level this year and has won so many races by a long long way. It is a very close call.

    Whether you think a para-triathlete deserves to be the overall triathlete of the year is opening a can of worms. Personally, I think it's great but I can understand why there might be frustration with Kevin missing out. Objectively speaking - I do think that Kevin's performance overall was a lot better than Michaels. I come to that decision solely based on the level of competition - same reason why I think the pros deserve recognition over Kevin and the age groupers. No disrespect is meant to anyone.

    side note: God, those juniors we have are so talented. Another great year. Fair play to everyone involved in helping them get to where they are today. The future is looking bright.


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    #11
    catweazle
    Registered Users Posts: 3,830 ✭✭✭catweazle


    Huff n Puff wrote: »
    There is a reason for this. Kevin has certainly dominated on the local scene this year but you can't go comparing age group triathletes to professionals. All those professional triathletes deserve to be on it. They train harder than the rest of us and are the best we have. They are performing at a far higher level and getting decent results. Aileen should be a nailed on cert for overall victory this year.

    I have to disagree with you there Shane - if your logic is followed through in a GAA All-Star analogy, Henry Shefflin would be a nailed on cert to be an all star this year. He hardly played through injury but he is still the best player in the country. He had a bad year - hence someone not as good or as talented as him will be picked ahead of him. I think that's fair

    In a way I admire TI for leaving Kevin out of the running - it would have been easier and less contentious call to just add him to the pot and make it 8, however you cant just block nominate all the professionals every year just because they are professionals - some of them clearly didn't have as good a year as they capable of.


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    #12
    Huff n Puff
    Registered Users Posts: 164 ✭✭Huff n Puff


    catweazle wrote: »
    because they are professionals - some of them clearly didn't have as good a year as they capable of.

    In my opinion, an average year for a professional is still better than a good one from an age grouper. Plenty of decent results listed from all the pros there in that list.

    Henry barely played this year. The Irish pros all raced many races this year. Gavin not so much but he had a serious half ironman result and bet Kevin well in Dublin and Kilkee. I would take a top 50 finish in a pro race over a win in an age group race every day of the week.

    If it was my list Kevin would be on it. Probably next on the list after the pros. Even though I plan on going long next year, I tend to always side on the speed side of the speed vs distance argument. Liam Dolan's performance was excellent but age groupers are only looking after the Irish record holder until Gavin and Bryan decide to give it a serious go. Then they will smash it and the performances of us age groupers will be put into perspective. It is just very hard to compete against these guys. They are on a different level.

    One thing is for certain - it has been a very good year for the Irish. We have come along way over the last few years.

    How I would rank the top 6
    Aileen Reid
    Bryan Keane
    Eimear Mullan
    Conor Murphy
    Gavin Noble
    Kevin Thornton
    Liam Dolan


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    #13
    bryangiggsy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,553 ✭✭✭bryangiggsy


    Huff n Puff wrote: »
    In my opinion, an average year for a professional is still better than a good one from an age grouper. Plenty of decent results listed from all the pros there in that list.

    Henry barely played this year. The Irish pros all raced many races this year. Gavin not so much but he had a serious half ironman result and bet Kevin well in Dublin and Kilkee. I would take a top 50 finish in a pro race over a win in an age group race every day of the week.

    If it was my list Kevin would be on it. Probably next on the list after the pros. Even though I plan on going long next year, I tend to always side on the speed side of the speed vs distance argument. Liam Dolan's performance was excellent but age groupers are only looking after the Irish record holder until Gavin and Bryan decide to give it a serious go. Then they will smash it and the performances of us age groupers will be put into perspective. It is just very hard to compete against these guys. They are on a different level.

    One thing is for certain - it has been a very good year for the Irish. We have come along way over the last few years.

    How I would rank the top 6
    Aileen Reid
    Bryan Keane
    Eimear Mullan
    Conor Murphy
    Gavin Noble
    Kevin Thornton
    Liam Dolan

    I do see your points but you are not comparing like with like. You are comparing someone who trains full time..probably naps twice a day versus someone who works full time and trains in between. Id rank the top six as follows
    Aileen Reid
    Bryan Keane
    Kevin Thornton
    Gavin Noble (because of injury)
    Conor Murphy
    Eimear Mullen
    Liam Dolan...and id include 3 or 4 other long distance age groupers here Matt Molloy,BMC, Niall Somers


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    #14
    Huff n Puff
    Registered Users Posts: 164 ✭✭Huff n Puff


    bryangiggsy wrote: »
    I do see your points but you are not comparing like with like. You are comparing someone who trains full time..probably naps twice a day versus someone who works full time and trains in between. Id rank the top six as follows
    Aileen Reid
    Bryan Keane
    Kevin Thornton
    Gavin Noble (because of injury)
    Conor Murphy
    Eimear Mullen
    Liam Dolan...and id include 3 or 4 other long distance age groupers here Matt Molloy,BMC, Niall Somers

    I can see how you would argue for that list. I wouldn't even have a huge problem with that list. Plenty of arguments can be made to back it up.

    I would argue though that this is the athlete of the year award, not the I would have won if it wasn't for my pesky job/wife/kids/smoking-eating-drinking-glue-sniffing habits award. People make choices in their life. Whether they have much free time is not a concern. The results achieved are all that matters.

    It doesn't matter if we are not comparing like with like. TI can always introduce an age grouper of the year award if they want to reward age groupers.

    All those pros have decent results to their names this year. They are performing at a higher level and deserve recognition. You put Kevin into a pro field on last years form and the likelihood is that he would struggle - you would then be arguing that Rory Sexton (next in the NS) should be on the list and Kevin shouldn't as Kevin's results as a pro aren't all that good. In reality Kevin would have beaten Rory by the same margins in the age group races if he hadn't entered the pro races = Kevin in this instance would deserve to be on the list not Rory.

    An analogy I would use is competitive diving. The pros are attempting far more technically difficult jumps. Most of us age groupers are bomb diving off the platform, Kevin is doing a forward dive. A perfect bomb dive or forward dive doesn't compare to a moderately well executed reverse two-and-a-half somersaults, tuck dive. The difficulty rating of the dives must be taken into account.

    Another analogy might be the FAI player of the season awards. There is a Senior International Player of the Year and an Airtricity League Player of the Year award. Why are the Airtricity lads not given recogntion in the Senior award? They operate at different levels. That is not to say that an airtricity player can't one day make the step up to the next level. It would be great to see Kevin make it to the pro level. The more lads we have competing at the top level the better.


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    #15
    Diesel
    Registered Users Posts: 76 ✭✭Diesel


    Then would it not make sense to have an 'International-based' AND a 'Home-based' (or Pro + Amateur) award or would that dilute things too much ?

    Just my tuppence worth !


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    #16
    shotgunmcos
    Registered Users Posts: 8,208 ✭✭✭shotgunmcos


    Its an International PRO list, not an age group one. Although mixing the ITU and IM athletes just muddies the water.

    KT is undoubtedly the form athlete domestically but the list suggest a higher stage


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    #17
    bryangiggsy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,553 ✭✭✭bryangiggsy


    Huff n Puff wrote: »
    I can see how you would argue for that list. I wouldn't even have a huge problem with that list. Plenty of arguments can be made to back it up.

    I would argue though that this is the athlete of the year award, not the I would have won if it wasn't for my pesky job/wife/kids/smoking-eating-drinking-glue-sniffing habits award. People make choices in their life. Whether they have much free time is not a concern. The results achieved are all that matters.

    It doesn't matter if we are not comparing like with like. TI can always introduce an age grouper of the year award if they want to reward age groupers.

    All those pros have decent results to their names this year. They are performing at a higher level and deserve recognition. You put Kevin into a pro field on last years form and the likelihood is that he would struggle - you would then be arguing that Rory Sexton (next in the NS) should be on the list and Kevin shouldn't as Kevin's results as a pro aren't all that good. In reality Kevin would have beaten Rory by the same margins in the age group races if he hadn't entered the pro races = Kevin in this instance would deserve to be on the list not Rory.

    An analogy I would use is competitive diving. The pros are attempting far more technically difficult jumps. Most of us age groupers are bomb diving off the platform, Kevin is doing a forward dive. A perfect bomb dive or forward dive doesn't compare to a moderately well executed reverse two-and-a-half somersaults, tuck dive. The difficulty rating of the dives must be taken into account.

    Another analogy might be the FAI player of the season awards. There is a Senior International Player of the Year and an Airtricity League Player of the Year award. Why are the Airtricity lads not given recogntion in the Senior award? They operate at different levels. That is not to say that an airtricity player can't one day make the step up to the next level. It would be great to see Kevin make it to the pro level. The more lads we have competing at the top level the better.

    Fair points HnP ... Prob best to have a pro award and an amateur reward or else just remove all amateurs from the list.,


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    #18
    BTH
    Registered Users Posts: 3,075 Mod ✭✭✭✭BTH


    Diesel wrote: »
    Then would it not make sense to have an 'International-based' AND a 'Home-based' (or Pro + Amateur) award or would that dilute things too much ?

    Just my tuppence worth !

    Is your amateur award not also known and the National Series Winner??


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    #19
    peter kern
    Registered Users Posts: 3,359 ✭✭✭peter kern


    BTH wrote: »
    Is your amateur award not also known and the National Series Winner??

    I dont think TI would agree with your statement given they did include 2 amateur choices and put them above nat series winners.
    anyway its not really relevant given the fact that one would expect Aileen to get 90 plus % of the votes.


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