West Ham (Home) - 06-10-2013

Leinstersqspur

Hatch99 wrote: »

Stats from Sky, please man, Huddlestone would be Beckenbauer if you go by those types of stats. No it's not ideal preperation, but that's football, would you rather have finished 8th last year than 5th ? United played Shakhtar on Wed night, and played after 2 days gap, the same as us, what's the difference ?? They had Thursday Friday, we had Friday Saturday (yes sometimes they play the Tuesday I know).. that's European football, I'd rather be in it than not.

The stats don't lie my friend, they tell a story. Your example of United only reinforce my point. United were muck on Saturday, an inspired youngster and some poor defending got them out of jail vs a managerless Sunderland.

On the striker point, I think AVB took a gamble and it didn't pay off. He knows Defoe has a good record against the Spammers and he's in form albeit against weak opposition. I'm fcuking lost as to why he didn't try Defoe and Soldado from the start as the €30m man should not be on the bench!

Hatch99

Bodie Doyle wrote: »

Hatch99 wrote: »

Oustanding in a game where we were murdered in the 2nd half, if he was that good surely we'd of had more control of the game in the 2nd half no ?


OK Hatch we get it, you don't like/rate Dembele. You will not admit to him having a great game even when his own fans vote him MOTM, the commentator on Bt Sports awarded him MOTM and numerous newspaper/websites after the game commended him on his performance.
We were thoroughly outplayed by Chelsea in the second half i agree but he was still our best player. What does it say about the rest.
You made a comment earlier on in this thread about how much Dembele cost and how he has not paid us back yet. When are we allowed to bring up the cost of new players who have underperformed? We will of course give them time but after spending 100m this window we fans expected a little bit more from the new lads yesterday.

I don't have it in for Dembele mate, I simply expect more. When he was signed, it was rumoured that we had got a gem, and had nipped in ahead of some bigger clubs to get him, if your asking me if he has lived up to that billing, my answer would be no. Is his assists and goals record what it should be, no. Yes he has played well at times,like at Anfield last year when he was great, but he has been far too inconsistant for me. Anyway, keep that for the Dembele thread

As regards when your allowed comment on the new lads etc.. that's your choice, not mine. They are all different. Look at Paulinho for example, he seems to have adapted very well, and settled quite quickly and has performed quite well I think you'll agree. However the likes of Lamela will take longer. He's young, no English and seems like a bit of a confidence player. I reckon it'll be the new year at least before we see the player we signed for big dollars, in saying all that, I thought he'd be better in the glimpses we have seen from him so far

Hatch99

Leinstersqspur wrote: »

The stats don't lie my friend, they tell a story. Your example of United only reinforce my point. United were muck on Saturday, an inspired youngster and some poor defending got them out of jail vs a managerless Sunderland.

On the striker point, I think AVB took a gamble and it didn't pay off. He knows Defoe has a good record against the Spammers and he's in form albeit against weak opposition. I'm fcuking lost as to why he didn't try Defoe and Soldado from the start as the €30m man should not be on the bench!

But my point is that we can't use the fact that we have a 2 day turnaround as an excuse every time we get a bad result following a Thursday game.

I agree, it was a gamble, it backfired, it all comes down to Defoes finishing, he takes that chance at the start of the 2nd half and it's a different story and we all say what a great decision it was, fine margins.

mickman

Hatch99 wrote: »

But my point is that we can't use the fact that we have a 2 day turnaround as an excuse every time we get a bad result following a Thursday game.

I agree, it was a gamble, it backfired, it all comes down to Defoes finishing, he takes that chance at the start of the 2nd half and it's a different story and we all say what a great decision it was, fine margins.

This is the issue and nothing more. Lets move on

oppiuy

I think we need to be clever at home...maybe a back 3 and look at having a bigger goal threat with soldado and dare i say it Adebayor while still having 5 in midfield...no time for defoe. Greedy and a poor finisher

Antisocialiser

Interesting article about how we need to learn how to break teams down better.

In many ways, it is a compliment to Spurs' progress under Andre Villas-Boas this season. Last November, Sam Allardyce brought his West Ham side to White Hart Lane and picked a 4-4-2 formation with Andy Carroll and Modibo Maiga up front. The Hammers lost the game 3-1, a late Carroll goal nothing more than a consolation in a match that Spurs dominated, registering 22 shots in the process.

Fast-forward a year (and without Carroll through injury) and Allardyce arrived with a rather different mentality. His side effectively played without a striker, with Modigo Maiga and Mladen Petric left on the bench. Ravel Morrison operated the furthest forward, but this was (at best) a bank of four with another sold five in front of them. West Ham came for a smash and grab (without using that as a critical term), and that is exactly what they got - 'go on then break us down' was the message sent to AVB and his team. After Spurs had proved themselves unable to do so, the Hammers picked off their opponents clinically. A match in which your opponents have just five shots on target should never end in 3-0 defeat, but at the top level, that is the reward you receive for taking your opportunities efficiently.

As I say, this is a compliment, if anything. One of the results of Spurs' transformation from Top Four hopes to Top Four expectations is that more teams will arrive at White Hart Lane with securing a point as their initial aspiration. Spurs' multitude of attacking midfield options dictates that the opposition (particularly those currently sat in the bottom half) must look for protection over adventure.

This provides Tottenham with a rather tricky issue. Players such as Andros Townsend, Gylfi Sigurdsson and Christian Eriksen promise to be devastating on a counter-attack (as seen during the recent game against Cardiff in which Spurs dominated), but their approach needs to be altered when faced with rigidity and solidity.

One of Spurs' biggest issues this season has been the involvement of the centr- forward. Roberto Soldado made just four passes in 77 minutes against Chelsea last weekend, and the Spaniard paid for his inactivity with a place on the bench, but his replacement Jermain Defoe initially didn't fare much better. Eight touches in a first half in which your side has had 60% of the ball is a worrying statistic.

One option is to play Defoe and Soldado as a partnership, something to which Villas-Boas resorted after his side had fallen two goals behind. Doing so at least avoids the issue of isolation, and in the 15 minutes in which they played together the two had 13 touches, close to the 16 Defoe had in the other 75 minutes. Something to work on in training, one suspects, and a plan B which may well have greater legs if the club purchase a further option in January.

A second issue that much be addressed is that of patience. Townsend is clearly a fine talent (and may well make his England debut this week), but he, amongst others, is often guilty of shooting off target from range. Despite having the most shots of any Premier League, Spurs have a lower shot accuracy of any other team in the top eight, and their shot conversion rate of 6% is lower than every team except Stoke City.

Against West Ham, Spurs had 14 shots on goal, but only four on target. The fact that eight of their efforts came from outside the area demonstrates a reluctance to patiently work an opportunity. Townsend was again the most guilty party, with none of his four shots requiring a save. It is a self-evident statement, but every shot off target marks the end of a move. Spurs' midfielders would do well to remember that at times.

In fact, this struggle to break down teams at home is nothing new. Last season (AVB's first) Spurs scored 29 goals in 19 home games, lower than any of the top nine teams. The aforementioned 3-1 victory over West Ham was one of only three home games in which they scored more than two goals. As teams look to hold firm against a talented side, altering that is only likely to get more difficult.

This piece wasn't or isn't intended to be wholly negative. Tottenham supporters are enjoying perhaps their most hopeful Premier League season, and sitting three points off top spot is a positive start. Unfortunately, success breeds expectation, and with many sides viewing a point away at Spurs as a success, AVB must find a way for his side to become more efficient in breaking sides down. Fail to do so, and a top four place is anything but a certainty.

DubPerryman

Townsend was again the most guilty party, with none of his four shots requiring a save. It is a self-evident statement, but every shot off target marks the end of a move. Spurs' midfielders would do well to remember that at times.

This is why Lamela will be replacing Townsend soon. Lamela will nip inside an look for one-twos off Soldado/Eriksen or he'll create an opportunity for Soldado.

Andros Townsend's talents have a glass ceiling.

Andros Twonsend's stats - 6 appearances, 0 assists, 26 shots. Only 6 shots on target.

Erik Lamela's stats - 4 (sub) appearances, 1 assist, 1 shot. That one shot was on target.



http://espnfc.com/player/_/id/132432/andros-townsend?cc=5739

http://espnfc.com/player/_/id/130870/erik-lamela?cc=5739

DubPerryman

DubPerryman wrote: »

Andros Twonsend's stats - 6 appearances, 0 assists, 26 shots. Only 6 shots on target.

To put that in context, Soldado has had 15 shots and 6 on target.

http://espnfc.com/player/_/id/42042/roberto-soldado?cc=5739



Is Andros Townsend...... Jermain Defoe in disguise??

Sugarlumps

Townsend has been playing on the right, I presumed Lamela would be playing on the left? Jeez the negativity towards Townsend is insane, he's calmed down the shooting in his last two matches. He's only young and still learning his trade.

mickman

DubPerryman wrote: »

To put that in context, Soldado has had 15 shots and 6 on target.

http://espnfc.com/player/_/id/42042/roberto-soldado?cc=5739



Is Andros Townsend...... Jermain Defoe in disguise??

I agree that townsend can be a little nieve when shooting but i think he is improving all the time . lamela looks months away

DubPerryman

Sugarlumps wrote: »

Townsend has been playing on the right, I presumed Lamela would be playing on the left? Jeez the negativity towards Townsend is insane, he's calmed down the shooting in his last two matches. He's only young and still learning his trade.

I assume Lamela will be on the right and cutting in on his left foot. I think that was his position for Roma, I think he'll look to play central too.

I don't mean to lay in to Townsend too much, but the stats support the fact that he wastes a lot of our attacks.

Antisocialiser

Andros Townsend dribbled past nine Hammers players on Sunday. He has completed 33 dribbles this season - the most in the PL.

He is obviously trying to fill Bale's shoes by constantly shooting from range. He is more of a counter-attacking player, his style won't pick the lock against team who line up to defend like Wet Spam.

GS11

DubPerryman wrote: »

I assume Lamela will be on the right and cutting in on his left foot. I think that was his position for Roma, I think he'll look to play central too.

I don't mean to lay in to Townsend too much, but the stats support the fact that he wastes a lot of our attacks.

He might waste them but he is also pretty much the only player out there making something happen, he's not that far off where Bale was a few seasons ago, I think it would be a mistake to drop him, I think the goals and assists will come. He causes defenders all sorts of problems, and as others have said, he's toned down the shooting.

DubPerryman

Antisocialiser wrote: »

Andros Townsend dribbled past nine Hammers players on Sunday. He has completed 33 dribbles this season - the most in the PL.

GS11 wrote: »

He might waste them but he is also pretty much the only player out there making something happen

Lads, I've said on here a couple of times that I like Townsend playing from the left. The fact that he can dribble and can make things happen is ideal for a left winger, though I don't think he has the credentials to be a good inverted winger as he's playing now. As mentioned, a lefty on the right is meant to cut inside and pick a lock - Townsend doesn't have that ability, Lamela might.

I know it's not AVB's style, but this is how I'd like our midfield to line up against Villa...


Townsend - Eriksen- Lamela

---- - Sandro - Paulinho


The width on the left would be great on the break and the craft of Eriksen/Lamela will definitely create chances for Soldado.

bishopmuzorewa

DubPerryman wrote: »

Lads, I've said on here a couple of times that I like Townsend playing from the left. The fact that he can dribble and can make things happen is ideal for a left winger, though I don't think he has the credentials to be a good inverted winger as he's playing now. As mentioned, a lefty on the right is meant to cut inside and pick a lock - Townsend doesn't have that ability, Lamela might.

I know it's not AVB's style, but this is how I'd like our midfield to line up against Villa...


Townsend - Eriksen- Lamela

---- - Sandro - Paulinho


The width on the left would be great on the break and the craft of Eriksen/Lamela will definitely create chances for Soldado.

I would stick Lennon in against villa if he is fit.

SuprSi

I can't see Lamela starting tbh

sniffingchimp

Hey all,

Having relocated to Oz only seen very little of the games this year...

Regards Lamela, we DID spend 30 mil on the guy? What does everyone reckon? I would have thought he'd be a given in the starting 11 now or has he been lacklustre?

Sugarlumps

sniffingchimp wrote: »

Hey all,

Having relocated to Oz only seen very little of the games this year...

Regards Lamela, we DID spend 30 mil on the guy? What does everyone reckon? I would have thought he'd be a given in the starting 11 now or has he been lacklustre?

Certain players take time to adjust, Paulinho adapted straight away. I don't know anything about Lamela other than he cost 30 million, I haven't watched his YouTube greatest hits.

Usually for that price you'll see a glimmer and go, "ah yeah that's why they paid 30 yo yo's for him". He's nowhere near breaking in to the first team, looks like a lost kitten.

He can't speak English yada yada, neither could Tevez. Some on here will tell you he's amazing no doubt. So far for me he's done nada.

White Heart Loon

Sugarlumps wrote: »

Certain players take time to adjust, Paulinho adapted straight away. I don't know anything about Lamela other than he cost 30 million, I haven't watched his YouTube greatest hits.

Usually for that price you'll see a glimmer and go, "ah yeah that's why they paid 30 yo yo's for him". He's nowhere near breaking in to the first team, looks like a lost kitten.

He can't speak English yada yada, neither could Tevez. Some on here will tell you he's amazing no doubt. So far for me he's done nada.

His one touch outside the boot assist for me is enough to show you his brilliance, give him time. Giroud didn't do much last yr but is now banging them in. Maybe you should check those YT vids, there's no doubt the lad has class.

Sugarlumps

Giroud finished the season with 17 goals and 11 assists in 47 appearances

mickman

White Heart Loon wrote: »

His one touch outside the boot assist for me is enough to show you his brilliance, give him time. Giroud didn't do much last yr but is now banging them in. Maybe you should check those YT vids, there's no doubt the lad has class.

He has class for sure but he is a little soft for premier league so far and he looks shocked by the intensity of it

He will come good I reckon but a few trips to the weights room wouldn't hurt him

White Heart Loon

Sugarlumps wrote: »

Giroud finished the season with 17 goals and 11 assists in 47 appearances

Maybe Giroud was a bad example, I thought he got about 9 in PL when he's nearly got that already this yr. My point is not to expect the most out of a player in the first year, especially when they are so young and have no common language. Holtby was a headless chicken last year, but now looks the real deal. Let Lamela be a cup player for 6 months if need be.

Hatch99

Townsend > our best player this season, right winger/left winger/inverted winger whatever you wanna call him, he has been our best player.

Lamela > as I said, he hasn't impressed me in the glimpses I have seen of him or in the EL games, but it's way too early to judge, I'd like to think Baldini knows a gem when he sees one and this is one for the long term.

DubPerryman

mickman wrote: »

He will come good I reckon but a few trips to the weights room wouldn't hurt him

As I was saying at the start of the season, Bale and Ronaldo were both put through intense weight sessions before we saw the best of them.

I think we'll see a physically different Lamela at the start of next season. I'd still expect to see Lamela settling this season and starting to show why we paid so much for him.

Re: bedding Lamela in, it's what AVB does. Look at Lloris last season. Lamela will play cup games until AVB feels he's ready to start in the PL.

jobeenfitz

Patience is key here with Lamella. Some players start off great in premier league others don't. he is being eased in. not his fault two teams agreed a 30 million fee. Must be hard not understanding 90% of whats being said. Could take him a while to settle, anybody expecting/demanding more could be in for a long season.

Devo from Dublin

Does Lamela ever show any emotions?
Never seen him smile or laugh, even when we score he looks scared.

jobeenfitz

Devo from Dublin wrote: »

Does Lamela ever show any emotions?
Never seen him smile or laugh, even when we score he looks scared.

I reckon some English players would look a little scared if they were playing for an Argentinian team and 50,000ish Argies shouting god-knows-what. I know he is a highly paid player n all that but he is still a young lad in a foreign land. Maybe he will never be a good player for us but he could turn out to be special, in time. I am not expecting a lot from him in the next three to six months, if he comes good before that, then great.

mickman

bishopmuzorewa wrote: »

We miss Lennon unbelievably...Townsend is a Birmingham City player..fcuk me the bloke doesnt pass the fcuking ball.

Townsend scores for england and gets man of the match on his debut.
3 shots and all on target
35 passes with 89% accuracy

Still reckon he belongs at birmingham ?

Leinstersqspur

mickman wrote: »

Townsend scores for england and gets man of the match on his debut.
3 shots and all on target
35 passes with 89% accuracy

Still reckon he belongs at birmingham ?

I said last season he has more in his locker than Lennon. Fair play to the lad, heard he had a great game, MOTM!

White Heart Loon

Leinstersqspur wrote: »

I said last season he has more in his locker than Lennon. Fair play to the lad, heard he had a great game, MOTM!

This'll do his confidence the world of good too