Tenants not getting on

Road-Hog

Renting out a house to a polish couple this past 18 months, only one of them works and its part time, so they struggle to pay rent on time but have not yet left me out of pocket yet ( I have reduced the rent a couple of times and gave them lots of leeway), also they are always complaining about the house being cold so I got it insulated i.e. pumped walls and extra insulation in attic (house is 13 years old with gas heating).

In any case since they moved in I have gotten numerous calls from him asking me can I ask her to leave as she is 'a crazy woman', I then get calls from a friend of hers telling me that she wants him out, she has hardly any English, . Guards have been to house on a number of occasions also, I think she has called them each time complaining of physical abuse but has not pressed charges. To make things even more complicated, a baby arrived this July, I got a call again this week from both of them saying that each wants the other out, and there was a garda visit again. On every occasion to date I've told them there is nothing I can do, they have to solve their own personal problems. I think also that the woman suffers from mental problems, probably exacerbated by the arrival of the baby, her friend who calls me has told me this and she is even getting tired of their carry on. I think the time has come to ask them both to leave and go their separate ways, which is a pity as the house both inside and out is immaculate, they have painted it, keep garden great and really look on it as a home but I am beginning to get tired of their carry on. Numerous garda visits and god knows what sort of screaming and shouting that goes on in a quite cul de sac with young families around and I know most of the neighbours fairly well.

Can anyone advise me on how I should deal with this awkward situation, I can give them notice but I've a feeling they in particular him won't want to leave, there is the PRTB route with which I'm registered but that can be a lengthy process I'm told.

Pawwed Rig

Whose name is on the lease?
The leaseholder is the person you have a contract with not the other.
If the lease is in both of their names and depending on how long they have been there then there is not alot you can do.
I would recomend writing a letter to both of them, outline your concerns but make it plain that you are not their parent and are refusing to mediate between two people who refuse to act like adults. In the letter I would put a date for which they need to come up with their own resolution and take it from there.

djimi

I think a firm conversation reminding them that a) they are both adults and b) you want no part in their personal lives is in order. Do they think that you are their mammy or something; that they can run to you everytime they have a personal issue? Disgraceful behavior.

Depending on how long they are there you may or may not be able to serve termination notice; these issues alone wouldnt be sufficient to terminate a lease I wouldnt have thought. If the Gardai have been called on several occasions however there might be antisocial behavior issues which would be grounds to terminate the lease? Also after 4 years of the tenancy you can terminate for any reason in the first six months of the next part 4 cycle.

If you can issue termination notice and they dont vacate then you have little option but to go down the PRTB route unfortunately.

hfallada

My parents had a similar story to you. They let an apartment to a polish couple. He worked in the constitution industry and she didnt work. They had a child together. But then the rent stopped coming in. My parents discovered he lost his job and pawned his tools for drug money. Then he started to beat his wife and the baby went back to Poland to live with her mother.

Eventually he ended up in the hospital with an attempted suicide and when he left she was gone back to Poland. It was a struggle getting rent every month and I'm pretty sure just left the apartment as when we went to collect rent one day everything was gone. We got a Garda to go to the apartment with us as the tenant was known to be violent. He said quite a few polish lose their **** when they lose their jobs.

OP I would try to get them to leave. You are only setting yourself up with serious trouble

Rosier

Is the baby safe?

bigneacy

Rosier wrote: »

Is the baby safe?

How would a landlord know that?!?

I'm sure since the Gardai have been to the house on several occasions if they had any concerns they would have referred them to HSE/Social Services

Rosier

bigneacy wrote: »

How would a landlord know that?!?

I'm sure since the Gardai have been to the house on several occasions if they had any concerns they would have referred them to HSE/Social Services

You have more faith in the Gardaí than I have and lls are people too as are tenants especially small vulnerable ones lls have eyes surely

SpaceTime

As distressing as it might be OP, it's not your role as a landlord to get involved unless they're breeching the rental agreement or wrecking the property really.

Asking you to intervene in a domestic situation is way beyond the role of a landlord. In fact, the Gardai are even relatively limited in what they can do if there's no domestic violence.

Perhaps give them the name of a polish-speaking counseling service if they ring you again looking for that kind of information.

There are definitely services available if you Google around.

It's putting you in a terrible position though. You're not running some kind of housing for teenagers or something!!

Road-Hog

SpaceTime wrote: »

As distressing as it might be OP, it's not your role as a landlord to get involved unless they're breeching the rental agreement or wrecking the property really.

Asking you to intervene in a domestic situation is way beyond the role of a landlord. In fact, the Gardai are even relatively limited in what they can do if there's no domestic violence.

Perhaps give them the name of a polish-speaking counseling service if they ring you again looking for that kind of information.

There are definitely services available if you Google around.

It's putting you in a terrible position though. You're not running some kind of housing for teenagers or something!!

Yes it's good to get my own view confirmed that I'm not a relationship councillor. I've tried to get this point across numerous occasions but they always seem to go back to default position and think I have some magical powers. With regard to the baby she looks healthy and looked after I've only seen her once since birth on one of my visits to collect rent ( another pain they will not set up an electronic transfer ). I will try the suggestion re polish community counselling services....it might have some impact. I think best solution is to ask them to leave, I can't put up with this sort of thing much longer. I think I have given them plenty chances to sort out their difficulties but every 3 to 4 months I get a crazy series of calls where one wants the other out. I do think the female suffers from some sort of mental illness such as depression is putting her out of house goin to exacerbate this? Lead to more mental torment from abusive partner? And throw the impact all this could ave on the infant?? Am I being too soft??

Pawwed Rig

You really have no reason to terminate their lease so tread with caution. You need to protect yourself by going through the process correctly.

Road-Hog wrote: »

I do think the female suffers from some sort of mental illness such as depression is putting her out of house goin to exacerbate this? Lead to more mental torment from abusive partner? And throw the impact all this could ave on the infant?? Am I being too soft??

It is not your problem. Your house is a business investment and should be treated as such

foggy_lad

Contact both of them by phone and tell them if either of them ring you again over their personal issues you will evict both of them, Then go to the Gardai and get all the dates and times that they were called to your property and the nature of any complaints as this could constitute anti-social behaviour if the neighbours could hear or witness them rowing.

sunnysoutheast

foggy_lad wrote: »

Contact both of them by phone and tell them if either of them ring you again over their personal issues you will evict both of them, Then go to the Gardai and get all the dates and times that they were called to your property and the nature of any complaints as this could constitute anti-social behaviour if the neighbours could hear or witness them rowing.

Evict them on what grounds?

As others have said, the OP is their landlord not their social worker.

If the rent is persistently late then issue the 14 day arrears notice then the NoT. Based on experience a few years the ago the burden of proof for eviction based on Garda attendance/antisocial behaviour is very high.

the_syco

Road-Hog wrote: »

In any case since they moved in I have gotten numerous calls from him asking me can I ask her to leave as she is 'a crazy woman', I then get calls from a friend of hers telling me that she wants him out, she has hardly any English, . Guards have been to house on a number of occasions also

Road-Hog wrote: »

Yes it's good to get my own view confirmed that I'm not a relationship councillor. I've tried to get this point across numerous occasions but they always seem to go back to default position and think I have some magical powers.

Ask the neighbour if they want them out, and get them to write an official letter to you. Then, f**k 'em all, and let god sort it out; http://www.prtb.ie/media-research/publications/anti-social-behaviour---3rd-party-complaint

Mongfinder General

the_syco wrote: »

Ask the neighbour if they want them out, and get them to write an official letter to you. Then, f**k 'em all, and let god sort it out; http://www.prtb.ie/media-research/publications/anti-social-behaviour---3rd-party-complaint

Put fish inside the curtain poles. Stink them out.

djimi

foggy_lad wrote: »

Contact both of them by phone and tell them if either of them ring you again over their personal issues you will evict both of them

On what grounds?

foggy_lad

djimi wrote: »

On what grounds?

Anti-social behaviour, it should be easy enough to get a statement or two from the neighbours and the Gardai reports are all evidence of it.

Road-Hog

I have been told by other landlords that a Garda call out may not be recorded, it depends on if they ave something to report on or have noticed physical injuries such as black eyes etc. I Am aware of three Garda visits since they moved in approximately 2 years ago. They live next door to a guard. As I used to live in the house myself I wud know the neighbours fairly well unfortunately and they ave not said anything to me about them to date but as suggested I think it's time I talked to them also. Bar using the anti-social behaviour route for eviction what are the other options if any to get a tenant to move? I've heard that selling house is acceptable (which I have hinted to them already as I was only workin part time last year) and also saying that you need the house for a family member ? Has anyone out there ever used these methods. I've also been advised not to get the Prtb involved its better if you can get them to move without being forced and some ave suggested almost paying a tenant to get out or at least give them back full deposit even if they don't deserve it in full! The Prtb route cud take almost a year and during this period they can stay in the house and get away without paying a 'red cent'.

sunnysoutheast

the_syco wrote: »

Ask the neighbour if they want them out, and get them to write an official letter to you. Then, f**k 'em all, and let god sort it out; http://www.prtb.ie/media-research/publications/anti-social-behaviour---3rd-party-complaint

The letter referred to in the link can only be issued after the PRTB has determined that the landlord has failed to enforce the tenant's obligations. How quickly are these decisions made by the board?

Pawwed Rig

the_syco wrote: »

Ask the neighbour if they want them out, and get them to write an official letter to you. Then, f**k 'em all, and let god sort it out; http://www.prtb.ie/media-research/publications/anti-social-behaviour---3rd-party-complaint

sunnysoutheast wrote: »

Based on experience a few years the ago the burden of proof for eviction based on Garda attendance/antisocial behaviour is very high.

As SSE said the burden of proof is very high. Even with extreme antisocial behaviour (which this does not seem to be) the benefit of the doubt is usually given to the tenant. What happens will be the neighbours will be very supportive and make promises that they will back you up but once the tenant is out the neighbours quickly lose interest. In a years time when the case comes before the board and you ask them to take a day off work to come and state their piece they are not interested.

Unless you managed to get a string of Garda reports and put alot of legwork into sworn statements from neighbours etc etc I would be very wary of terminating a lease for anti social behaviour in this case.

Better just not to engage with them when they start this nonsense.

Road-Hog

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

As SSE said the burden of proof is very high. Even with extreme antisocial behaviour (which this does not seem to be) the benefit of the doubt is usually given to the tenant. What happens will be the neighbours will be very supportive and make promises that they will back you up but once the tenant is out the neighbours quickly lose interest. In a years time when the case comes before the board and you ask them to take a day off work to come and state their piece they are not interested.

Unless you managed to get a string of Garda reports and put alot of legwork into sworn statements from neighbours etc etc I would be very wary of terminating a lease for anti social behaviour in this case.

Better just not to engage with them when they start this nonsense.

Many thanks to you all for your advice, I got another call this pm from the females sister in law who lives in cork and who has reasonable English, she tells me that they have called a truce, I stressed to her that I want limited contact with them from now on apart from rent collection. Hopefully things will calm down, I think the current situation had something to do with Christening arrangements, he doesn't want her family coming to stay at house and visa versa.............details and situations I just don't need to know about.

djimi

Its situations like this that make letting agents fees seem worth every penny

Road-Hog

djimi wrote: »

Its situations like this that make letting agents fees seem worth every penny

Yes wud ave to agree!!

Marcin_diy

just a quick question - what has nationality to do with the problem described above?

There are over 100.000 Polish living in Ireland. You can't expect that so large community will be 100% fine with their behavior and mental problems.

No need to mention where they are from unless it is something very specific to the nation.

Road-Hog

Marcin_diy wrote: »

just a quick question - what has nationality to do with the problem described above?

There are over 100.000 Polish living in Ireland. You can't expect that so large community will be 100% fine with their behavior and mental problems.

No need to mention where they are from unless it is something very specific to the nation.

The significance of their nationality has to do with the fact that one of them hasn't even pigeon English and is using a friend as an interpreter thus adding a layer of complication. I think speaking polish or any other foreign language is about as specific to a nation as you can get. Maybe I should ave used the term 'non English speaking' to be fully political correct?