People confused by English language

purplecow1977

Phew. I was afraid that if it wasn't followed exactly to the dot that it would be deemed 'spoiled' - any excuse on their part eh!

Rascasse

purplecow1977 wrote: »

Are you sure that's okay? I'm even questioning myself now what I did!

Yep, if they didn't allow the ticks there would be a huge % of spoilt ballots.

Dinner

purplecow1977 wrote: »

Are you sure that's okay? I'm even questioning myself now what I did!

It's already been answered but yeah that's fine. So long as there is a clear indication of intention on the ballot paper it will be accepted. You could probably draw a smiley or frowney face in either box and it would be accepted.



I was surprised at the amount of people uncertain about the papers. There was a lot of people who weren't sure which ballot was which despite it being written on them. But it wasn't uncommon on the day, a lot of people asked for clarification.

P_1

Rascasse wrote: »

That is OK.

RTE say they even accepted 2 ballots in Dun Laoghaire where no had been ticked and "reform" written on the ballot - to me they should be counted as spoiled.

I wonder if my drawing of a middle fingered salute in the 'no' box was counted as a 'no' or a 'spoil' in that case

echo beach

Dinner wrote: »

I was surprised at the amount of people uncertain about the papers. There was a lot of people who weren't sure which ballot was which despite it being written on them. But it wasn't uncommon on the day, a lot of people asked for clarification.

When I went to vote the poll clerk handed me the two papers and said 'the white one is for the Seanad' and I heard her say the say to everybody else. Maybe by that stage she was tired of being asked or polling was so slow she was doing anything to engage in conversation.

Dinner

echo beach wrote: »

When I went to vote the poll clerk handed me the two papers and said 'the white one is for the Seanad' and I heard her say the say to everybody else. Maybe by that stage she was tired of being asked or polling was so slow she was doing anything to engage in conversation.

Both are likely to be honest, it was awful slow until about half 5. So a bit of conversation goes a long way!

Tin Foil Hat

Rascasse wrote: »

That is OK.

RTE say they even accepted 2 ballots in Dun Laoghaire where no had been ticked and "reform" written on the ballot - to me they should be counted as spoiled.

No. When a clear preference has been indicated then those votes are counted. That is how it is and that is how it should be. Those ballot papers unambiguously indicate that the the voters who cast them do not wish for the seanad to be abolished and it is perfectly correct that they should be counted as No votes.

As a humourous aside I would like to share the best ballot paper I have ever seen. I have no idea whether it was considered valid, or not, but I desperately hope that it was. All hail President Bruce Wayne.

StewartGriffin

Fluorescence wrote: »

If someone is such an imbecile that they can't decipher a straightforward ballot paper then they have no business voting.

I can't understand the confusion at all. It was very simple.

Sometimes I exercise my right not to vote and there are always people who say "people died to get us a vote, you must use it". But I think it's irresponsible to go out and vote on something you don't understand (and can't be bothered to research) just because you feel it's a moral obligation to register an opinion on something you know nothing about.

petronius

I hate when usually the government seem to infer that the people were confused that is why they didn't vote the way they should have.
To say people who voted yes understood the issue and voted no because they didn't.
It shows a lack of respect for the people, i do think the people respect the constitution and there has to be a legitimate and evident reason to change it. If people are not engaged with the debate or issue, they have the right not to vote, they are not lazy yes voters.

The issues should not be reduced to a simple slogan - a amendment should be teased out to explain its consequences, most people take the whole debate and arguments as to what they think will be the result of their vote and then vote accordingly.

I disagree with titles being put on the ballot paper which could be leading - something like last years "stability treaty" that is a biased title like "reduced irish governmental powers treaty" would be or the "save 20million bill" or "less politicians bill" would be

People can be confused and vote yes as much as they can vote no

SpaceTime

purplecow1977 wrote: »

Question, considering there are over 14,000 spoiled votes, that seems quite a lot. My brother just realised he put a tick in the box instead of the X. Is his vote spoiled?

No, it's relatively hard to spoil a vote in Ireland.
They'll look for anything that will indicate clear choice.

So, for example if you ticked it, put a 1 in it or whatever it would work fine. They prefer an X as it's clearer and what you're supposed to do, but they won't disenfranchise you because you aren't good at filling in forms or made a mistake like using the wrong symbol.

Spoiled would be where you've made it impossible to read which option you wanted e.g. ticked both boxes or just scrawled a message on it.
There was even a case where a voter attached a note and that wasn't spoiled as the ballot paper was only stapled onto it.
They usually will go out of their way though to not have your vote spoiled. It's not like the states where they tend to look for any excuse to declare it spoiled.

14,000 spoiled votes in the Irish system would mean something went very seriously wrong.

...

I do still think the ballot paper was really badly laid out and needs total review.

Ballot papers should be designed to ensure that people with visual difficulty (a lot of elderly people), cognitive difficulties like dyslexia etc are fully catered for.

I don't think it's good enough to just present a bilingual, legalistic, confusing document like that.

A good graphic designer and someone who's aware of UI design for accessibility would be able to design a far better form and still stick to black and white printing if that's what's needed.

The General Election and other normal election ballot papers are far better designed.