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Gay Marriage

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Comments

  • #252
    spank_inferno
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,892 ✭✭✭spank_inferno


    Nodin wrote: »
    It's happening next year. Don't know what "forced on the people" has to do with anything. In addition all polls indicate that it will pass.

    Polls do indicate that alright.

    Polling day.... Most don't bother to vote, especially the younger people more likely to vote 'Yes'.

    Plus, in the privacy of the ballot box people very often opt for the status quo.

    I'm an avid supporter of SSM, I'm also convinced 100% that if put to a referendum the country would say 'No'.

    I'd prefer it be dealt with the legislature rather than plebiscite.


  • #253
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    spank_inferno wrote: »
    Polls do indicate that alright.

    Polling day.... Most don't bother to vote, especially the younger people more likely to vote 'Yes'.

    Plus, in the privacy of the ballot box people very often opt for the status quo.

    I'm an avid supporter of SSM, I'm also convinced 100% that if put to a referendum the country would say 'No'.

    I'd prefer it be dealt with the legislature rather than plebiscite.

    Alas plebiscite it's going to be.


  • #254
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    spank_inferno wrote: »
    I'd prefer it be dealt with the legislature rather than plebiscite.

    I can see two sides to this:

    Against a referendum: this is a matter of equal rights. People who are suffering discrimination and a denial of equal rights should not have to get the permission or approval of the majority to get equal treatment.

    For a referendum: When it passes, it'll be concrete proof that the society is getting more inclusive and less reactionary.

    Of course, it might not pass this time, just as the reactionaries won the first Divorce referendum and kinda-sorta won the 86 Abortion referendum. But if not, it will pass after another cohort of old voters die off in a few years time.


  • #255
    For Reals
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,964 ✭✭✭For Reals


    I don't think it'll be that simple. For example, the civil war was a long time ago and with mass corruption and incompetence, Fianna Fail still has devout followers.


  • #256
    marienbad
    Registered Users Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    spank_inferno wrote: »
    Polls do indicate that alright.

    Polling day.... Most don't bother to vote, especially the younger people more likely to vote 'Yes'.

    Plus, in the privacy of the ballot box people very often opt for the status quo.

    I'm an avid supporter of SSM, I'm also convinced 100% that if put to a referendum the country would say 'No'.

    I'd prefer it be dealt with the legislature rather than plebiscite.

    Whatever the rights and wrongs of a referendum the good thing is no future government can legislate away the result.

    Why do you think the anti-abortion crowd insisted on a referendum all those years ago ? Nothing more the an older fading generation prolonging their views long after their sell by date . Learn from the masters is what I say.

    And then if we have a hung dail in the future we won't have the Lucinda Creighton's of this world having the casting vote to sell to the highest bidder.


  • #257
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    marienbad wrote: »
    Whatever the rights and wrongs of a referendum the good thing is no future government can legislate away the result.

    Why do you think the anti-abortion crowd insisted on a referendum all those years ago ? Nothing more the an older fading generation prolonging their views long after their sell by date . Learn from the masters is what I say.

    And then if we have a hung dail in the future we won't have the Lucinda Creighton's of this world having the casting vote to sell to the highest bidder.

    A good point.


  • #258
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    marienbad wrote: »
    Whatever the rights and wrongs of a referendum the good thing is no future government can legislate away the result.

    I think the ideal result from the anti-referendum people's point of view would be to have the Supreme Court rule that same sex marriage is a right thanks to natural justice, and force the legislature to enact it without a referendum.

    That would not be reversible by the Dail.

    However, there is some doubt that the Constitution can be read this way, since some of the language around the family is very old-fashioned (like the special position of women in the home, for instance).


  • #259
    creedp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,815 ✭✭✭creedp


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    I think the ideal result from the anti-referendum people's point of view would be to have the Supreme Court rule that same sex marriage is a right thanks to natural justice, and force the legislature to enact it without a referendum.

    That would not be reversible by the Dail.

    However, there is some doubt that the Constitution can be read this way, since some of the language around the family is very old-fashioned (like the special position of women in the home, for instance).

    This democracy thing is a terrible lark


  • #260
    marienbad
    Registered Users Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    I think the ideal result from the anti-referendum people's point of view would be to have the Supreme Court rule that same sex marriage is a right thanks to natural justice, and force the legislature to enact it without a referendum.

    That would not be reversible by the Dail.

    However, there is some doubt that the Constitution can be read this way, since some of the language around the family is very old-fashioned (like the special position of women in the home, for instance).


    Indeed, but as it stands constitutionally the only certain way to ensure nt change is to revise that document and so a referendum.

    On the broader point that one section of society should not have the power to confer or deny civil rights to other sections of society - this may be true in philosophy class but we are left with the document as written when such notion were unheard of, so we must continue to rewrite that constitution now and into the future


  • #261
    Bluebird Ran
    Site Banned Posts: 8 ✭Bluebird Ran


    Marriage equality exists in Ireland. By definition marriage is a gender based institution and available to every qualifying man and woman in the country.


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  • #262
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Bluebird Ran wrote: »
    Marriage equality exists in Ireland. By definition marriage is a gender based institution and available to every qualifying man and woman in the country.


    By whose definition? And besides, such things are not set in stone.


  • #263
    Bluebird Ran
    Site Banned Posts: 8 ✭Bluebird Ran


    Nodin wrote: »
    By whose definition?.
    The Law of the Land.


  • #264
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,104 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Bluebird Ran wrote: »
    The Law of the Land.

    Indeed. And that can be changed.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #265
    bobcoffee
    Registered Users Posts: 154 ✭✭bobcoffee


    Bluebird Ran wrote: »
    Marriage equality exists in Ireland. By definition marriage is a gender based institution and available to every qualifying man and woman in the country.


    Is it just me or does that read that anyone can get married as long as they are a Man or Woman.. as in dogs can't, children can't, donkeys can't..
    not seeing it denying gay marraige :)


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