Getting bums on seats - LOI

happydayz182

I am part of a project group in University of Limerick and one of our final year projects is coming up with a few proposals on how to increase attendances at games !

I follow the league myself and am recently back from a spell in Dublin where my job allowed me to visit around various grounds covering games and reporting back stats like corners etc..

as a neutral the games I obviously prefered attending were the ones where the was a bit of atmosphere to look forward to - it made some of the poorer games more enjoyable.

Since this is a handy little way to have direct communication with loyal and maybe not so loyal fans of teams in the LOI ( I don't like the phrase LOI fan - I am sure most people support a team not a league ) I'd just like to get a discussion going.

What gets you attending games and what stops you ? Do you know many people who potentially could become regular match goers and fans in general? What kind of objections would stop people going who otherwise have a decent interest in soccer? Any ideas or feelings that you have on the subject feel free to share!

Richard Hillman

What gets me attending games are intensity and the meaning that the result of this game will matter towards the final result of the season.

I would stay away from matches involved Shamrock Rovers due to safety concerns.

mitosis

Richard Hillman wrote: »

I would stay away from matches involved Shamrock Rovers due to safety concerns.

What an odd thing to say. Why, do you feel you would come to harm?

Richard Hillman

mitosis wrote: »

What an odd thing to say. Why, do you feel you would come to harm?

I have seen first hand what Shamrock Rovers fans are capable of.

dan1895

Rearranged Fixtures on Mondays and Tuesdays keeps me away.

A lot of people who have gone the odd time say to me that 15 euro a ticket is too much to go on a regular basis.

SirDelboy18

An increased prize pool would help clubs produce and attract better talent, thus generating more interest.

Other than that you are probably looking down the avenue of giving out free tickets to school-going children, with a supplementary one for a parent or guardian.

happydayz182

Richard Hillman wrote: »

What gets me attending games are intensity and the meaning that the result of this game will matter towards the final result of the season.

I would stay away from matches involved Shamrock Rovers due to safety concerns.

I enjoyed going to Tallaght Stadium - thought the crowd was good the away fans usually turned up and a overall good atmosphere. Cant comment on attending games with Shamrock Rovers as the away side as I cant remember any!

Richard Hillman

dan1895 wrote: »

Rearranged Fixtures on Mondays and Tuesdays keeps me away.

A lot of people who have gone the odd time say to me that 15 euro a ticket is too much to go on a regular basis.

I would agree with this too. You can get into the Leopardstown summer festival for €15 and a Leinster match for €20. It just isnt worth the price compared to its competitors.

mav79

dan1895 wrote: »

Rearranged Fixtures on Mondays and Tuesdays keeps me away.

A lot of people who have gone the odd time say to me that 15 euro a ticket is too much to go on a regular basis.

This is what prevents me from seeing matches most of the time, mid week games are just too hard to get to after work.

Omackeral

Posted this before but I'll re-iterate my reasons for going to LOI games. I support Bohs, by the way.

*The clever chants that you probably wouldn't cop from hearing on TV.

*Being a part of an electric atmosphere, as in helping to make it.

*Goading and bantering off real life rival supporters in the stadium.

*Knowing the club and its environs represent my part of the city, my tribe if ya wanna get poetic!

*Developing camaraderie with all these loons who do it for the buzz or the love and everything inbetween.

*Not having to adhere to imaginary cross-city rivalries with the Evertons and the Tottenhams of this world.

*Getting to watch football in the flesh, week-in week-out.

Too Tough To Die

Boobs.

Omackeral

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

Boobs. Moobs

That's a Newcastle match you're thinking of.

Augmerson

I first got into LOI football following Bohs. Not even from Dublin, but loved the atmosphere, really is great to see live football. Sadly no longer live in Dublin so supporting Bohs by going to the grounds isn't feasible now but I might start going to see Athlone as they are a lot closer to me in the Midlands.

But will still love the Bohs

Corholio

What gets me going to LOI games.

- The unmatched feeling of watching live football amongst other supporters, both home and opposition.
- Watching a team that represents your area and having that loyal feeling towards them because of it.
- Watching decent enough football, despite what some people think. Seeing players like Forrester, Ndo, Rice are well worth a friday night attendance.
- Being amongst a collection of fans all with the same tradition of going to watch football games is a great feeling, better when you win but knowing theres always next week when you lose too.
- Going through emotions watching live football you won't get watching it in any other way, don't care what anyone says.

Ferris_Bueller

Cheap ticket prices

Good car parking

Good atmosphere

Shelter from the rain/wind (don't think any LoI can shelter the wind!)

Seeing local players

They are things for me personally, quite simple but a team like Shamrock Rovers has drawn me up on occasion when ticket prices are cheap, free/good parking, decent atmosphere and knowing I won't get wet if it rains.

That_Guy

This video sums it up for me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yh-HbcMajBs

There's nothing that would really deter me from going to a game to be honest other than stupid rearranged fixtures of a midweek. Now, home games are fine as I'm a season ticket holder but away games outside of Dublin of a weekday are difficult to get to as I'm in college/have no way of getting home.

I'm a very recent blow in to Bohemians but I've met some great people both home and away and love hearing about the history and mad away games.

Friday's at Dalymount are special to me. It's something I really look forward to take my mind off things and is also a great kick start to the sporting weekend.

This is my first season doing away games and I love doing it. Being among dedicated and mental supporters who share the same passion as myself is great.

I've supported Newcastle my entire life but there is nothing better than attending live matches on a regular basis.

Captain Havoc

For me it's about going to live games, I was brought up going to to hurling matches and later I started going to Kilkenny City matches and made friends there, singing at the city end. I go to Tallaght now as it's only an hour from my door. When you're watching a live game, you see the whole match and not just the bit on the telly and the where the ball is, a game of football is much more than that. When you've a blood and thunder game and the crowd is up, there's nowhere better to watch a game than in the stadium.

osarusan

Things that can genuinely keep supporters away:

poor quality of football.
poor (in some cases terrible) facilities.
lack of publicity of games/LOI in general.
distance (but to nowehere the extent that people use it as an excuse)
stupid midweek fixtures.

For me, the excitement of watching my hometown team (I'm actually from east Clare, but Limerick is closest) live. Being part of the atmosphere, knowing the people around me, knowing that my money and my presence are in some admittedly tiny way, part of the club.

Obviously, given my location now, distance is something of an issue.

atilladehun

My Dad is the LOI supporter in my house, He took me to every game until I was 10 and then less and less as I got older and lost interest. I'm 31 now. Finally in the last couple of years he's started to loose interest and probably goes to half the home games now. The relegation battle actually sparked his interest.

I've seen bohs go through a whole list of things to get fans in, free tickets for kids, shows etc. TBH I don't think the marketing really works. It's not real. I accept the points made about being part of something but I would argue that those things can be worn down by bad performances and results, especially if it's over a long time.

I think the only way to grow the league is to improve the players abilities. When we talk of academies in Clairefontaine, Ajax or Barcelona it's usually with the purpose of improving the national team. I would argue over ten years if 10% made it to that level in Ireland from an academy that would be an outstanding result. Really you'd be producing very good footballers every year. Yes you'd lose some to England too but you'd still be putting quality into the league every year.

You could go further to create some draft system where the young players gradually introduced to a couple of teams over three years so every club would gat a fair shot and if the player was sold there'd be a pre agreed scale between the academy and the club depending on time spent with each. It would also improve coaching throughout the country imho.

If people knew quality players were getting into the league, and if they were better able to handle themselves in Europe then the advertising would take care of itself. If the draft was akin to the US sports then every team would have a chance to grow or sell talent. If all the clubs take part then agreed coaching ethos would also benefit all.

That_Guy

osarusan wrote: »

Things that can genuinely keep supporters away:

poor quality of football.

I'm sorry but I find this to be an absolute myth. It's a line trotted out far too often by people use it as a stick to bash the league.

You'd swear the LOI was the only league in the world to ever have bad games in it.

osarusan

That_Guy wrote: »

I'm sorry but I find this to be an absolute myth. It's a line trotted out far too often by people use it as a stick to bash the league.

You'd swear the LOI was the only league in the world to ever have bad games in it.

I've been to literally hundreds of LOI games, with Limerick home and away.

I've had friends from different countries come to games with me, and all were polite about it, but were not impressed by the quality of football.

I think it only takes a small number of games for a team (LOI or anywhere else) to get under the skin to the extent that results or quality no longer matter - you go because you're a fan.

But getting people to go back for the small number of games can be difficult when you're in a rundown 'stadium' watching players hoof it around the place for 90 minutes.

aramush

LOI is and always will be ****e and that, in a nutshell, is the reason why people stay away. Attended a couple of games and to be honest, it was dire. Its worth saving a few quid and going over to watch a couple of games in England. At least there is some quality on show, a considerably better atmosphere, facilities and all round better experience.

That_Guy

aramush wrote: »

LOI is and always will be ****e and that, in a nutshell, is the reason why people stay away. Attended a couple of games and to be honest, it was dire. Its worth saving a few quid and going over to watch a couple of games in England. At least there is some quality on show, a considerably better atmosphere, facilities and all round better experience.

You attended a couple of games and got unlucky is all.

dan1895

aramush wrote: »

LOI is and always will be ****e and that, in a nutshell, is the reason why people stay away. Attended a couple of games and to be honest, it was dire. Its worth saving a few quid and going over to watch a couple of games in England. At least there is some quality on show, a considerably better atmosphere, facilities and all round better experience.

I attended a couple of premier league games before. The atmosphere war crap despite over 40,000 at each game and the quality of the games was poor. So I wouldn't waste my money on that either if I were you.

aramush

dan1895 wrote: »

I attended a couple of premier league games before. The atmosphere war crap despite over 40,000 at each game and the quality of the games was poor. So I wouldn't waste my money on that either if I were you.

I'm blessed with the good fortune of supporting Liverpool and to this date, have never witnessed a "poor quality" Premier League game I've been at. Even atmosphere at its lowest in the Kop at Anfield has been better than anything I've seen in the LOI. Again, my opinion only.

GarIT

It's hard to show support for your team when last years jersey is €55. At most current LOI jerseys shouldn't exceed €20.

If jerseys were €20 each I'd have 3+, the only one I have ATM is a 2 year old one.

NIMAN

We will always be fighting a losing battle here against the $ky hype machine and how most people are convinced that every single football match played in 'the best league in the world' is fantastic entertainment, packed full of end to end action, tension, unbelievable skill etc. I used to watch a lot of EPL games and I saw some awful dung for each good game I seen. Its the same in every league. Every league. Thats a fact, whether Utd, Liverpool or whatever fans try to tell you otherwise.

I have been a season ticket holder at Derry for many years, and yes I have seen loads of poor games, but I have also seen excellent games and been at unforgettable nights at the Brandywell. But at the same time I know many people in Derry who would not go to a Derry game if they were let in for free. Yet these people are self proclaimed 'football fanatics'. For an English football team that is.

You see there are a large number of Irish sports fans who are hangers-on and bandwagoners. They love a big event, supporting a winning team and getting away on a trip for a few jars. Its the reason so many more people started to watch Irish rugby, because it became successful. Once the glory days start to fade, watch the people fade away too.

Its not as much fun supporting sport through the lean years.

GarIT

aramush wrote: »

LOI is and always will be ****e and that, in a nutshell, is the reason why people stay away. Attended a couple of games and to be honest, it was dire. Its worth saving a few quid and going over to watch a couple of games in England. At least there is some quality on show, a considerably better atmosphere, facilities and all round better experience.

But you wouldn't even get to one PL game for the cost of a LOI season ticket.

NIMAN

Aye, but its the trip, the craic with your mates and getting lamped that will make the trip memorable, not the actual game itself. Even if the game is rubbish you will remember the trip as being fun, and as a result will have false memories about being at a great EPL game.

I know a guy who did one such trip to Old Trafford with mates, and was so tired from drinking, slept through half the game. Slept in a stadium of 70,000!! Must have been loads of passion in the terraces that night.

dan1895

aramush wrote: »

I'm blessed with the good fortune of supporting Liverpool and to this date, have never witnessed a "poor quality" Premier League game I've been at. Even atmosphere at its lowest in the Kop at Anfield has been better than anything I've seen in the LOI. Again, my opinion only.

You've not been to the same Liverpool games as I have. Anyway, my point is there are sh*t games in every league.

gustavo

GarIT wrote: »

It's hard to show support for your team when last years jersey is €55. At most current LOI jerseys shouldn't exceed €20.

If jerseys were €20 each I'd have 3+, the only one I have ATM is a 2 year old one.

I'd love to know why you think Loi jerseys cost any less to produce than jerseys that presumably you do think are worth the €55

aramush

GarIT wrote: »

But you wouldn't even get to one PL game for the cost of a LOI season ticket.

Please, no, it's bad enough enduring one game of it never mind a full season!

Omackeral

aramush wrote: »

Please, no, it's bad enough enduring one game of it never mind a full season!

I know, right?! Imagine supporting a team for a full season... Weird!

COYVB

GarIT wrote: »

But you wouldn't even get to one PL game for the cost of a LOI season ticket.

The last season I was in Ireland for, my Villa season ticket cost only a little more than my Drogheda one - go figure that one out

Richard Hillman

That_Guy wrote: »

I'm sorry but I find this to be an absolute myth. It's a line trotted out far too often by people use it as a stick to bash the league.

You'd swear the LOI was the only league in the world to ever have bad games in it.

Come on, the vast majority of games in the league are awful to watch on TV. I have a general interest in the league so I may switch back on to check the score after I had initially turned off after 5 mins.

I think the majority of football games on TV in general are bad to watch but in terms of the LOI games, I cannot think of one decent televised game this season. I know fans of LOI clubs have been shouting for more media coverage but now that I have seen more games on TV, I feel that they are making the league look bad.

happydayz182

aramush wrote: »

Please, no, it's bad enough enduring one game of it never mind a full season!

Every single LOI game I attended was more enjoyable then Irelands last two home games.

Obviously there are people who never will and never intend go to a LOI match because its "s****" and whatever and fair enough thats a reason for not going. Theres really nothing that is going to get you or keep you going to matches at home but they are plenty of people out there who potentially would enjoy all the experiences that following live football has to offer.

As far the football itself I thought nearly every team I watched tried to play football and the fans were quick to get on the teams back if they noticed to much aimless long balls.At the same time it is what it is and there are other reasons people go to and don't go to matches.

Theres some great replies here and some brilliant post on the enjoyment you get - The witty chanting is one of the aspect I enjoyed the most at all.

There are people attending junior matches or local soccer teams and others who have a clear disconnect with their local or nearest LOI team - saying the football is S**** is just one of those reasons.

Richard Hillman

If you want bums on seats, you need to offer the punter more than a football match and some kids playing a mini game at half time.

That_Guy

Richard Hillman wrote: »

If you want bums on seats, you need to offer the punter more than a football match and some kids playing a mini game at half time.

Like what exactly?

ThunbergsAreGo

gustavo wrote: »

I'd love to know why you think Loi jerseys cost any less to produce than jerseys that presumably you do think are worth the €55

There is no way ANY jersey costs 20+ to produce

Omackeral

Richard Hillman wrote: »

If you want bums on seats, you need to offer the punter more than a football match and some kids playing a mini game at half time.

Ah come on what are ya after?!

COYVB

naughtb4 wrote: »

There is no way ANY jersey costs 20+ to produce

Ironically, LoI jerseys would cost more than EPL ones, due to quantity produced

Richard Hillman

That_Guy wrote: »

Like what exactly?

If I could tell you that I would be a chairman of a football club.

I think there needs to be a real social aspect into going to games. If matches are going to be on a Friday night then the LOI is competing with going to the likes of going to the pub or whatever people do on a Friday nights.

We can all agree that the football is not good enough to get a lot of people through the gates, so we need to improve the match day experience and everything around the actual football.

COYVB

Charging a fiver in for everyone would get more people through the gate, and having a bar would help too given the friday night matches

That_Guy

Richard Hillman wrote: »

If I could tell you that I would be a chairman of a football club.

You suggested there be something more than a football match but failed to offer suggestions.

Dalymount has a few bars in it with reasonably priced drinks. The odd time they've "siren girls" dancing at half time, after games there's a DJ and the odd cover band/solo artist after the game to keep people in the bars.

I don't know what needs to be more social about going to a football game. I mostly attend matches by myself as nobody else is interested but I often get talking about the game/terrible decisions to people around me and in the bar afterwards.

dan1895

COYVB wrote: »

Charging a fiver in for everyone would get more people through the gate, and having a bar would help too given the friday night matches

I don't see why someone can't drink a beer while watching a game. Have a designated area for it, serve drink in plastic glasses only and police it properly with zero tolerance for trouble makers. Works in Germany in stadiums with 40-50,000 people.

Pete_Cavan

OP, I don’t think you will get much help for your project here because posters here generally seem to fall into two categories – 1. LOI fans of varying degrees of devotion (whos bums are regularly on the seats already) and 2. anything but LOI fans (who have no intention of putting their bum anywhere near a seat at an LOI game). I am in my mid twenties, a fan of sports generally (would watch most sports) and have disposable income which I am willing to spend to enjoy sports so I would see myself as exactly the kind of person LOI should be trying to attract. For me, I have generally lost interest in soccer over the last couple of years. The money involved and the constant diving has turned me off the game. Gaelic football was always my first sport, and still is, but my interest in rugby has grown in recent times and it has overtaken soccer.

To attract me to LOI games regularly I would like to see Irish soccer turn away from the capitalist EPL model and more to the IRFU rugby model where the collective strength of the Union and the professional clubs (provinces) are used to support the game as a whole at all levels. Things like a national academy with a draft system (as mentioned earlier) and some kind of central contracts to keep certain players in the country (I know our best players will always leave because they can get more money abroad but there are plenty of Irish guys in the lower leagues in England and elsewhere in Europe who would improve the standard of LOI). LOI has a good recent record of developing players who go on to play for the Irish national team and I would be more interested in the league if they can keep that up. All this involves working closely with the FAI, of course the problem with getting the FAI more involved is the FAI would be more involved

I think the biggest problem LOI teams have is that it is modelled on professional soccer which is based almost entirely on money and who spends the most of it, whereas their rivals, GAA and rugby, remain an armature ethos and are more grass roots focused. The providential rugby teams and GAA teams are almost exclusively home grown players, whereas in soccer any player is a commodity who will be sold at the right price. Soccer, to me, is a business and I don’t feel much desire to invest in it by paying my hard earned cash to see a game. At least I know when going to an international/provincial rugby match or a GAA match I know that I am supporting the game at a grass roots level.

losthorizon

I'm sorry but the professional provinces are much more money based and capitalist than any LOI club you could mention. Nobody went to rugby games when the All- Ireland League was the premier league competition in this country and that was much more community based. Even the dispute at the moment between French/English and Celtic Rugby teams about the European Cup boils down to money. They dont even seem to care for the competition that much.

In fact my Club Cork City have a number of under-age teams most of whos players never get to the full team but they do benefit from being part of Cork City in a number of ways.

Going to a LOI game besides the football has many social benefits not just for the fans but for society in general whether that is suppling extra work for printing companies in producing programmes, the one or two people that each LOI club employs and the extra wages that clubs pay their players.

While a draft system is good in theory I'm not sure under UEFA rules its strictly legal although I do know they use it in the American league.

Pete_Cavan

losthorizon wrote: »

I'm sorry but the professional provinces are much more money based and capitalist than any LOI club you could mention. Nobody went to rugby games when the All- Ireland League was the premier league competition in this country and that was much more community based. Even the dispute at the moment between French/English and Celtic Rugby teams about the European Cup boils down to money. They dont even seem to care for the competition that much.

The prize money from Leinster and Munster winning the Heineken Cup doesnt stay with them, it goes to the IRFU who use it to fund rugby at all levels in this country. A LOI club gets prize money for progressing in Europe and they use it to their own benefit which may be to the detriment of other LOI clubs. I certainly wouldnt say professional rugby here is "much more money based and capitalist than any LOI club", you will have to explain that one.

MonkstownHoop

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

The prize money from Leinster and Munster winning the Heineken Cup doesnt stay with them, it goes to the IRFU who use it to fund rugby at all levels in this country. A LOI club gets prize money for progressing in Europe and they use it to their own benefit which may be to the detriment of other LOI clubs. I certainly wouldnt say professional rugby here is "much more money based and capitalist than any LOI club", you will have to explain that one.

I wouldn't trust the FAI with the prize money, more than likely John Delaney would spend it buying pints for barstoolers at Ireland games

happydayz182

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

OP, I don’t think you will get much help for your project here because posters here generally seem to fall into two categories – 1. LOI fans of varying degrees of devotion (whos bums are regularly on the seats already) and 2. anything but LOI fans (who have no intention of putting their bum anywhere near a seat at an LOI game). I am in my mid twenties, a fan of sports generally (would watch most sports) and have disposable income which I am willing to spend to enjoy sports so I would see myself as exactly the kind of person LOI should be trying to attract. For me, I have generally lost interest in soccer over the last couple of years. The money involved and the constant diving has turned me off the game. Gaelic football was always my first sport, and still is, but my interest in rugby has grown in recent times and it has overtaken soccer.

To attract me to LOI games regularly I would like to see Irish soccer turn away from the capitalist EPL model and more to the IRFU rugby model where the collective strength of the Union and the professional clubs (provinces) are used to support the game as a whole at all levels. Things like a national academy with a draft system (as mentioned earlier) and some kind of central contracts to keep certain players in the country (I know our best players will always leave because they can get more money abroad but there are plenty of Irish guys in the lower leagues in England and elsewhere in Europe who would improve the standard of LOI). LOI has a good recent record of developing players who go on to play for the Irish national team and I would be more interested in the league if they can keep that up. All this involves working closely with the FAI, of course the problem with getting the FAI more involved is the FAI would be more involved

I think the biggest problem LOI teams have is that it is modelled on professional soccer which is based almost entirely on money and who spends the most of it, whereas their rivals, GAA and rugby, remain an armature ethos and are more grass roots focused. The providential rugby teams and GAA teams are almost exclusively home grown players, whereas in soccer any player is a commodity who will be sold at the right price. Soccer, to me, is a business and I don’t feel much desire to invest in it by paying my hard earned cash to see a game. At least I know when going to an international/provincial rugby match or a GAA match I know that I am supporting the game at a grass roots level.

I am not really looking for help with the actual project itself - I am just trying to get a discussion going on what the people that matter - the fans themselves- feels will help increase attendances and stop them declining.

I knew I would be getting two different viewpoints from reading other posts and threads as there are the die-hard passionate fans and those who not only couldn't care less but actively seek to put the league down at every opportunity.

Before I started going to games as part of a job I would have scoffed myself at the prospect. Its only when you start going to games that you realize what its about. Its not the premier league, its not pretending or trying to be. But its real and the passion the fans have is real - it reminded me that football isn't a television show.

You say there are two types of fans - those of varying degrees of devotion and those with no intention of going.

I believe they are more

Those who have no interest at all
Have an interest in soccer ,local soccer but dont attend
occasional match goers
Regular match goers
season ticket holder Die hard fans

I am trying to get an understanding on what the people in those categories feel about the league,the matches and what may get them or stop them going to games. The posts both good and bad so far have been great in that respect!

losthorizon

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

The prize money from Leinster and Munster winning the Heineken Cup doesnt stay with them, it goes to the IRFU who use it to fund rugby at all levels in this country. A LOI club gets prize money for progressing in Europe and they use it to their own benefit which may be to the detriment of other LOI clubs. I certainly wouldnt say professional rugby here is "much more money based and capitalist than any LOI club", you will have to explain that one.

I'm not a Rugby fan at all but I think you every Irish province is guaranteed group matches in Europe so I mean they are going to get all the gate money. And the IRFU will see that a certain percentage goes back to them I assume. Furthermore only Britain, Ireland, France and Italy are involved in the European cup. LOI clubs have to deal with a knock out system and pay their expenses to get to these games. Unless the opposition team is very glamorous Irish TV is not interested usually unlike most other European nations so the chances are the a team getting into Europe may actually make a loss from the whole thing not a profit unless they get through a few rounds.

In the CL Preliminary Rounds and first round draws are not regionalised so an Irish team has the potential to draw a team from say Vladivostok near Japan or somewhere in Eastern Kazakhstan which is in Asia.

I dont want to get into another sport bashing post but LOI can never be like Rugby or GAA its just different sure it can learn things from them I think as you said especially the community based stuff which from what I read a club like Sligo Rovers are good at.