Getting bums on seats - LOI

Pete_Cavan

losthorizon wrote: »

I'm not a Rugby fan at all but I think you every Irish province is guaranteed group matches in Europe so I mean they are going to get all the gate money. And the IRFU will see that a certain percentage goes back to them I assume. Furthermore only Britain, Ireland, France and Italy are involved in the European cup. LOI clubs have to deal with a knock out system and pay their expenses to get to these games. Unless the opposition team is very glamorous Irish TV is not interested usually unlike most other European nations so the chances are the a team getting into Europe may actually make a loss from the whole thing not a profit unless they get through a few rounds.

In the CL Preliminary Rounds and first round draws are not regionalised so an Irish team has the potential to draw a team from say Vladivostok near Japan or somewhere in Eastern Kazakhstan which is in Asia.

I dont want to get into another sport bashing post but LOI can never be like Rugby or GAA its just different sure it can learn things from them I think as you said especially the community based stuff which from what I read a club like Sligo Rovers are good at.

I didnt draw any comparisons between the Heineken Cup and Champions League and I am well aware of the differences between them. I responded to your claim that in rugby "the professional provinces are much more money based and capitalist than any LOI club", which I dont see as being true at all. In rugby all money is centralised, including income from the national team. Anyway, I am not interested in discussing soccer v rugby, I am saying what would be more likely get my bum on a seat at a LOI game, as per the OP.

My point is I would be more interested in Irish soccer if the clubs and FAI worked closer together to develop the game and LOI. Instead it seems in domestic soccer the clubs are left to look after themselves while the FAI looks after itself (very well).

Maybe the FAI could fund an elite academy system designed to bring players into the LOI, with players moving abroad if they are good enough, instead of having our young talant move to English academies. The LOI now has quite a good record of producing players who go on to establish themselves in the EPL so build on that. The FAI should learn from the IRFU who have a great record of developing world class players from a small pool of players.

losthorizon

When you rephrase it like that I totally 100% agree with you (except for the provinces bit!).

NIMAN

COYVB wrote: »

The last season I was in Ireland for, my Villa season ticket cost only a little more than my Drogheda one - go figure that one out

Maybe because Villa get 30,000+ at every home game, get tens of millions guaranteed each year from $ky subscriptions, plus a few million from shirt sponsorship, and so they can afford to charge such a price for their season tickets. Its all about revenue streams. I would bet that if the EPL clubs season tickets were priced in relation to how much the Irish clubs season ticket relates to their total revenue, then you'd be paying thousands for a season ticket in England.

Also, when the person mentioned how one EPL match would cost more than an LoI season ticket, it most cases this is correct, by the time you factor in flights, hotels, food and drink, travel insurance etc.

Leejo

GarIT wrote: »

At most current LOI jerseys shouldn't exceed €20.

Why?

Gavin "shels"

GarIT wrote: »

It's hard to show support for your team when last years jersey is €55. At most current LOI jerseys shouldn't exceed €20.

If jerseys were €20 each I'd have 3+, the only one I have ATM is a 2 year old one.

What!?

COYVB wrote: »

Charging a fiver in for everyone would get more people through the gate, and having a bar would help too given the friday night matches

We had this debate at Shels before, if you charged a fiver in would you get 3 times more people through the gate to make up the difference? Unlikely.

That_Guy

Gavin shels wrote: »

What!?



We had this debate at Shels before, if you charged a fiver in would you get 3 times more people through the gate to make up the difference? Unlikely.

Exactly. That and you're automatically screwing over members/season ticket holders and those are your most valued customers in terms of getting money up front.

CSF

That_Guy wrote: »

Exactly. That and you're automatically screwing over members/season ticket holders and those are your most valued customers in terms of getting money up front.

Well you would have to cut season ticket prices by the same percentage to sell any but still, it just doesn't work.

If there were any evidence to suggest that price is one of the things keeping fans out, and that a decrease in price would lead to a matching increase in attendance it would be a great idea, but it really does just seem like people aren't interested.

Alias G

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

I didnt draw any comparisons between the Heineken Cup and Champions League and I am well aware of the differences between them. I responded to your claim that in rugby "the professional provinces are much more money based and capitalist than any LOI club", which I dont see as being true at all. In rugby all money is centralised, including income from the national team. Anyway, I am not interested in discussing soccer v rugby, I am saying what would be more likely get my bum on a seat at a LOI game, as per the OP.

The situation you describe applies to Ireland only. In France and England, it is all about the money. And it looks like they are the ones calling the shots these days. Now I wonder why that is??

10green bottles

Despite the best efforts of the OP not to make it so,this thread has turned into another "How to fix our leauge" thread.

As a guide on price;i was on hols in Dorchester about 2 years ago and popped along to see the local side(Dorchester Town) in action.They play in the conference and tix were 12GBP a throw, about 14 euro! Bit steep.Standard nowhere near LOI.

EDIT-Its only a tenner into Oriel Park BTW

Strongbow10

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

OP, I don’t think you will get much help for your project here because posters here generally seem to fall into two categories – 1. LOI fans of varying degrees of devotion (whos bums are regularly on the seats already) and 2. anything but LOI fans (who have no intention of putting their bum anywhere near a seat at an LOI game). I am in my mid twenties, a fan of sports generally (would watch most sports) and have disposable income which I am willing to spend to enjoy sports so I would see myself as exactly the kind of person LOI should be trying to attract. For me, I have generally lost interest in soccer over the last couple of years. The money involved and the constant diving has turned me off the game. Gaelic football was always my first sport, and still is, but my interest in rugby has grown in recent times and it has overtaken soccer.

To attract me to LOI games regularly I would like to see Irish soccer turn away from the capitalist EPL model and more to the IRFU rugby model where the collective strength of the Union and the professional clubs (provinces) are used to support the game as a whole at all levels. Things like a national academy with a draft system (as mentioned earlier) and some kind of central contracts to keep certain players in the country (I know our best players will always leave because they can get more money abroad but there are plenty of Irish guys in the lower leagues in England and elsewhere in Europe who would improve the standard of LOI). LOI has a good recent record of developing players who go on to play for the Irish national team and I would be more interested in the league if they can keep that up. All this involves working closely with the FAI, of course the problem with getting the FAI more involved is the FAI would be more involved

I think the biggest problem LOI teams have is that it is modelled on professional soccer which is based almost entirely on money and who spends the most of it, whereas their rivals, GAA and rugby, remain an armature ethos and are more grass roots focused. The providential rugby teams and GAA teams are almost exclusively home grown players, whereas in soccer any player is a commodity who will be sold at the right price. Soccer, to me, is a business and I don’t feel much desire to invest in it by paying my hard earned cash to see a game. At least I know when going to an international/provincial rugby match or a GAA match I know that I am supporting the game at a grass roots level.

I'd be interested to know if this buzz you get from supporting a game a "grass roots level" was with the advent of successful Heino Cup campaigns? I'd put my house on it that your attendance during the AIL era was non existent.

keeponhurling

There's no getting away from quality issues.
You can see that even with the national team, attendances are down if the team is producing poor stuff, or if the opposition is seen as poor.

(Even look at GAA.
If Cork play Kilkenny in a league game with neither team reaching full fitness yet, and trying out new players & systems, it might get 5,000.
In championship when both teams are at their best, maybe 30,000.)

Also, many people don't know when matches are on, there's not much buzz.
I've lived in cities overseas, and almost everybody, soccer fan or not, would at least be vaguely aware of how the city's team is doing, and what maybe their next or last game, and could a couple of players.
Maybe Dublin has too many teams, but some people wouldnt even know who won the league, never mind whether Bohs, Shels are playing at the weekend.

AgileMyth

keeponhurling wrote: »

Also, many people don't know when matches are on, there's not much buzz.
I've lived in cities overseas, and almost everybody, soccer fan or not, would at least be vaguely aware of how the city's team is doing, and what maybe their next or last game, and could a couple of players.
Maybe Dublin has too many teams, but some people wouldnt even know who won the league, never mind whether Bohs, Shels are playing at the weekend.

I feel like we have that in Sligo these days. Everyone knows how the Rovers are getting on. Even those with little interest in the league want them to do well.

In contrast a few of us wore Rovers jerseys in Galway before a game there a few years back and were met with "Oh are ye on a Stag night or what?"



Getting people in will always be an issue. Its simply too easy to watch Liverpool or United on TV and convince yourself that you're getting the experience of being a football fan.

I've met very few people who've given the league a chance and not become supporters.

happydayz182

AgileMyth wrote: »

I feel like we have that in Sligo these days. Everyone knows how the Rovers are getting on. Even those with little interest in the league want them to do well.

In contrast a few of us wore Rovers jerseys in Galway before a game there a few years back and were met with "Oh are ye on a Stag night or what?"



Getting people in will always be an issue. Its simply too easy to watch Liverpool or United on TV and convince yourself that you're getting the experience of being a football fan.

I've met very few people who've given the league a chance and not become supporters.

I remember when Sligo played UCD earlier this year and won three nil... It was pretty much a home game for them , they brought a great following and the stand was packed with red and white jerseys and scarves .. Was really impressed by them and the amount that made the journey for a "routine" league game! Whatever they are doing they are doing something right - or as people seem to be saying it might be because its easier to follow a winning team!

Lawrence1895

Players, who don't respect their supporters are a no-go for me...or managers, who call supporters 'deplorable'

happydayz182

Lars1916 wrote: »

Players, who don't respect their supporters are a no-go for me...or managers, who call supporters 'deplorable'

True but I don't think that's actively keeping fans away or stopping new fans from going either !

Lawrence1895

happydayz182 wrote: »

True but I don't think that's actively keeping fans away or stopping new fans from going either !

Did you see the attendances in Tolka under a certain Alan Matthews?

Okay, Shels don't have tens of thousands in Tolka, after the above mentioned left, but it always can happen, that supporters stay away or don't bother going, if the dugout is sort of poisoned

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

happydayz182

Lars1916 wrote: »

Did you see the attendances in Tolka under a certain Alan Matthews?

Okay, Shels don't have tens of thousands in Tolka, after the above mentioned left, but it always can happen, that supporters stay away or don't bother going, if the dugout is sort of poisoned

I did indeed! Pretty sure some fans were only showing up to give Mattews grief aswell! They were a shambles first few games aswell so couldn't blame them!

Turners Cross usually get in and around 2000 showing up !

Fuhrer

Usually not home in time from work to go to Friday kick offs when im in the country, can never make the away games mostly.

Captain Havoc

Phoenix wrote: »

Whats the average attendance at Turners Cross?

About 2,000

niallo27

NIMAN wrote: »

Maybe because Villa get 30,000+ at every home game, get tens of millions guaranteed each year from $ky subscriptions, plus a few million from shirt sponsorship, and so they can afford to charge such a price for their season tickets. Its all about revenue streams. I would bet that if the EPL clubs season tickets were priced in relation to how much the Irish clubs season ticket relates to their total revenue, then you'd be paying thousands for a season ticket in England.

Also, when the person mentioned how one EPL match would cost more than an LoI season ticket, it most cases this is correct, by the time you factor in flights, hotels, food and drink, travel insurance etc.

You could fly to liverpool for 40 euro, stay in the formula 1 for a tenner or go home the same day, as for food and drink do you not eat and drink at LOI games as for the travel insurance your going to england what the hell you need that for. Its a myth that costs a fortune to travel to a engish league game.

10green bottles

niallo27 wrote: »

You could fly to liverpool for 40 euro, stay in the formula 1 for a tenner or go home the same day, as for food and drink do you not eat and drink at LOI games as for the travel insurance your going to england what the hell you need that for. Its a myth that costs a fortune to travel to a engish league game.

People do this? Holy siht! :rolleyes:

dan1895

niallo27 wrote: »

You could fly to liverpool for 40 euro, stay in the formula 1 for a tenner or go home the same day, as for food and drink do you not eat and drink at LOI games as for the travel insurance your going to england what the hell you need that for. Its a myth that costs a fortune to travel to a engish league game.

Can you fly to Liverpool on the weekend of a match for 40euro. Usually prices go up those weekends and I avoid going over when Liverpool are at home because of that. Also you'd need to fork out for a return flight.
As for eating at games, sometimes I do other times I just eat in my house where all my food is. Very convienient.

NIMAN

I pay £180 for my Derry season ticket, and I still maintain that if you want to go to a single game in the EPL from Ireland it will cost you the guts of that to do it.

Of course you might get a dirt cheap flight, stay in a kip, eat or drink nothing, but I have done many of these types of trips over the years, and I would never get close to spending £100 all in. Never.

Gavin "shels"

niallo27 wrote: »

You could fly to liverpool for 40 euro, stay in the formula 1 for a tenner or go home the same day, as for food and drink do you not eat and drink at LOI games as for the travel insurance your going to england what the hell you need that for. Its a myth that costs a fortune to travel to a engish league game.

€40 flight to Liverpool? Jesus, with who? Meant to go on a weekend away there but the flights were coming in around €120 and there was no Liverpool/Everton matches down for the weekends we looked at.

Corholio

aramush wrote: »

I'm blessed with the good fortune of supporting Liverpool and to this date, have never witnessed a "poor quality" Premier League game I've been at. Even atmosphere at its lowest in the Kop at Anfield has been better than anything I've seen in the LOI. Again, my opinion only.

Never seen a poor quality Premier League game? You've either been to very few or just spouting ridiculous **** to hammer the league with, IMO it's the latter. Had some of my best nights atmosphere wise at LOI games, loudest doesn't always mean better atmosphere either, of course I'm sure you factored in equating stadium size right?

Mushy

Bray have €5 off all adult and student tickets this Sunday, and children with a full price adult is €1.

Hopefully it works!

CSF

niallo27 wrote: »

You could fly to liverpool for 40 euro, stay in the formula 1 for a tenner or go home the same day, as for food and drink do you not eat and drink at LOI games as for the travel insurance your going to england what the hell you need that for. Its a myth that costs a fortune to travel to a engish league game.

I wouldn't really eat or drink at a LOI game unless it was away outside Dublin. I'd usually make it home for a little while before heading off to the match.

As for match costs, it is expensive enough, and I would typically go to a match outside Ireland averagely every 3 weeks (football is where the vast majority of my disposable income goes) so I'd like to think im well qualified to judge.

40 euro return is the cheapest you're getting your flights at. You're not always getting flights at that price. You have to plan really well to get it and even at that, the time of year may mean it isn't always possible. Match tickets again are typically between 30-40 euro, you've train tickets from the airport, and often to the ground, you have to pay for food and drink for the day because you're not at home, and all this assumes you're going home the same day, otherwise there are a good few more costs.

Weigh that up against 10-15 euro match tickets and a fiver to cover buses and the total cost of your football match is quite different.

CSF

Gavin "shels" wrote: »

€40 flight to Liverpool? Jesus, with who? Meant to go on a weekend away there but the flights were coming in around €120 and there was no Liverpool/Everton matches down for the weekends we looked at.

I've flown to Liverpool for 19.99 single with Ryanair before, can be done depending on how early you book and the time of year.

GLaDOS

I make a point of trying not to eat in LOI grounds, cause the food is generally ****e and overpriced.

dan1895

ScienceNerd wrote: »

I make a point of trying not to eat in LOI grounds, cause the food is generally ****e and overpriced.

Like at any other outdoor sporting event or concert.

CSF

COYVB wrote: »

The last season I was in Ireland for, my Villa season ticket cost only a little more than my Drogheda one - go figure that one out

Dunno what season it was or what prices you got those at, but at current prices (I go to both Villa and Shelbourne games, the cheapest Villa season ticket would be only slightly under double the Shels one.

GLaDOS

dan1895 wrote: »

Like at any other outdoor sporting event or concert.

True, but I don't go them every week

Drogmal

Newcastle, Liverpool, Man utd and London clubs tickets would all be between €50 and €70 for a match ticket. Between €30-40 is very good for a prem game, not sure what club that is with but hardly any of the above. I paid €70 for a league cup game this year at Old Trafford (face value) and you could get a Drogheda Season ticket for twice that figure. I am also a Liverpool fan and go over about once a month and have seen many a crap game at Anfield and the atmosphere there for most home games is very poor now, bar one section of the Kop or for a big game. The atmosphere in United Park yesterday or Richmond two weeks ago for Pats Dundalk was much better than I have seen at most prem games this season.

premierstone

CSF wrote: »

I wouldn't really eat or drink at a LOI game unless it was away outside Dublin. I'd usually make it home for a little while before heading off to the match.

you have to pay for food and drink for the day because you're not at home, and all this assumes you're going home the same day, otherwise there are a good few more costs.

So you don't eat at all that day when going to a LOI match??

CSF

premierstone wrote: »

So you don't eat at all that day when going to a LOI match??

I eat at home, like on a normal day.

dan1895

premierstone wrote: »

So you don't eat at all that day when going to a LOI match??

Obviously he would,

at home,

for free.

premierstone

CSF wrote: »

I eat at home, like on a normal day.

dan1895 wrote: »

Obviously he would,

at home,

for free.

Oh sorry my bad, so you rob your food when your at home and only pay for it when abroad, classy

dan1895

Food eaten at home before going to a football match is not considered an expense of going to a football match.

CSF

premierstone wrote: »

Oh sorry my bad, so you rob your food when your at home and only pay for it when abroad, classy

Do you get the bus to work the day before you go to a Premiership match? Surely you should include that too so.

This is up there with the stupidest posts on any forum I've seen, and we've had some stupid ones in our time.

NIMAN

As I mentioned earlier, I have been to plenty of games outside of Ireland, including Scotland, England, Spain, France, Germany, Italy and there is NO chance that you could go to any game from Ireland for anything less than €250, unless you are an absolute miser who would spend nothing on food, be no craic walk everywhere once there, and sleep on the streets.

I have been to trips abroad that have cost me 3x the price of my season ticket here, and thats maybe for 2 nights away.

But why let facts get in the way of your argument, eh?

Oat23

NIMAN wrote: »

As I mentioned earlier, I have been to plenty of games outside of Ireland, including Scotland, England, Spain, France, Germany, Italy and there is NO chance that you could go to any game from Ireland for anything less than €250, unless you are an absolute miser who would spend nothing on food, be no craic walk everywhere once there, and sleep on the streets.

I have been to trips abroad that have cost me 3x the price of my season ticket here, and thats maybe for 2 nights away.

But why let facts get in the way of your argument, eh?

Spent €150 going to Hamburg for the derby a few weeks ago. Return flight for €64 (bought in a sale months ago), match ticket for €17.50 and the rest on food and drinks (don't drink alcohol though).

€250 is a lot to be spending in two days to be honest, unless you buy merchandise or stay at a fancy hotel.

niallo27

If people are only going once or twice a year of course thy will spend a lot more money, but when your doing 15-20 times a season you need to save money. I often flew out of shannon on a Saturday morning and back into cork that evening. Had the breakfast at home before I went. 1.80 a pint in the supporters club. 6 pound on buses. It can be done in budget. I went to a few limerick games this season. I was surprised at how good the football was. I went because it was Thomand park though to be honest. We were able to have a few beers in good facilities.

happydayz182

niallo27 wrote: »

If people are only going once or twice a year of course thy will spend a lot more money, but when your doing 15-20 times a season you need to save money. I often flew out of shannon on a Saturday morning and back into cork that evening. Had the breakfast at home before I went. 1.80 a pint in the supporters club. 6 pound on buses. It can be done in budget. I went to a few limerick games this season. I was surprised at how good the football was. I went because it was Thomand park though to be honest. We were able to have a few beers in good facilities.

Was there anything you experienced that would stop you getting to more Limerick games next season?

I am wondering is there the opening for LOI clubs to target local supporter clubs - members who regularly get together and make the effort to follow their "main" team whether Liverpool,Man Utd or whatever to occasionally get to some of their local teams even if it as a second team. You get the football,the atmosphere the drinks before and after at a fraction of the time and cost involved. What you guys think?

As for the food - I loved my half time coffees and muffins or whatever at Tallaght Stadium during the colder weeks earlier this year! Couldnt complain - some grounds were worse than others however.

niallo27

happydayz182 wrote: »

Was there anything you experienced that would stop you getting to more Limerick games next season?

I am wondering is there the opening for LOI clubs to target local supporter clubs - members who regularly get together and make the effort to follow their "main" team whether Liverpool,Man Utd or whatever to occasionally get to some of their local teams even if it as a second team. You get the football,the atmosphere the drinks before and after at a fraction of the time and cost involved. What you guys think?

As for the food - I loved my half time coffees and muffins or whatever at Tallaght Stadium during the colder weeks earlier this year! Couldnt complain - some grounds were worse than others however.

I know i said it was a plus point in my first point but the fact thomand was so big made it hard to create any atmosphere. I'd like to get to an away game at some stage, liverpool away is a great buzz. I think LOI fans should target fans who travel to england a lot to games. They should be there target.

Captain Havoc

Are sky sports ads country specific, if so could the FAI not put in ads during games? They could do a vote for a goal of the week/ month via text and win two tickets to an Ireland game. It might just be enough to get people talking about the league.

CSF

niallo27 wrote: »

I know i said it was a plus point in my first point but the fact thomand was so big made it hard to create any atmosphere. I'd like to get to an away game at some stage, liverpool away is a great buzz. I think LOI fans should target fans who travel to england a lot to games. They should be there target.

I think that group would be a large percentage of those in an Irish ground on a Friday night, I find that those people (myself included) tend to fall into 2 rough categories, those who go, and those who have convinced themselves they're too good for it.

BOHtox

I hate what these threads always become

Oranage2

I just think loi has too much competition, there are things people would rather do like go to the cinema or a restaurant. As people get older the have less time and spending the night watching a game wouldn't be most people's idea of entertainment.

Also a lady I use to work with would bring her kids to the one in Watergate park and she said it wasn't really family friendly with a lot of bad language and a hostile environment.

If people really wanted to watch a match just take a walk around a local park a watch a game there , save yourself a few quid too.

Paulw

Oranage2 wrote: »

Also a lady I use to work with would bring her kids to the one in Watergate park and she said it wasn't really family friendly with a lot of bad language and a hostile environment.

I have to agree with this. I think that is one of the biggest problems.

The quality of football is quite good. The venues are not great, but you can live with that. But, the amount of bad language will really put off people bringing their kids. And without kids, you can't build a fan base. If you want to grow the crowd then you need to bring families along. But, who would bring their younger kids to a game when such bad language is used???

I go to a few games each year, and would go to more if time/work allowed.