Getting bums on seats - LOI

Paz-CCFC

premierstone wrote: »

Fair point and perhaps my choice of phrase was misleading, I would stand by it with regard to a large number of LOI fans I have had any interaction with and alot of them love to play the victim. I also know plenty of LOI fans who also support Celtic or a team in England and are just genuine soccer supporters regardless of the league or country, in my experience these are in the minority.

My experiences have been the opposite, to be honest. Of the LoI fans I know, many would also support a foreign team, too. Some have the LoI team first, and the foreign team second, some have it the other way around, but there's always been a huge interest by LoI fans, I've found. Once people come to the matches, I don't really care to be honest. If it's just a match the odd time that they want to go to, then great. If everyone from Cork went to a City match just once in the season, and didn't go again until the following year, we'd fill out the Cross every week.

A Brad Maddox Guy wrote: »

In my experience the part in bold has mostly been the other way round; the criticism is directed at British club fans first and they retaliate, particularly when the national team are playing and United/Liverpool fans are talking about Ireland (this is more prevalent on facebook. I'm usually not too active in the soccer threads here so have to take your word that idiots are insulting the league here). And yes it is definitely a minority but it doesn't take away from the fact that telling somebody they're wrong and not a real football fan for supporting a British team is not going to convince that person to get out and try the league. I really would love to ban the word barstooler :pac: And I want to point out that this part of my original post wasn't slated as a reason people don't support the league, more that it's a minor annoyance and in my opinion undermines some of the effort of trying to get them involved in the league. Your final paragraph is 100% spot on though.

I suppose everyone has different experiences of it. It's based on anecdotal evidence on my part, it's just what I feel I've experienced, so you could very well be correct. But I've just found that when the attitude is shown by an LoI fan, it's pounced on straight away, but when it's done the other way, it's seen as more acceptable and let slide. I agree with you, it doesn't do much to attract people the Irish football matches - but on the other hand, you wouldn't really here people say that they get turned off the British leagues because of getting stick for supporting a "rubbish" league.

CSF

premierstone wrote: »

Well your posts relating to Celtic or anything SPL related certainly come across as utterly biased, I can only take your word for it that it is not intentional.

Of course you don't need a strong reason to like or dislike a particular club but thats a two way street, I don't need to justify to you or anyone else for that matter why I support Celtic, always have done and always will.

I didn't ask you to...

Omackeral

premierstone wrote: »

I lived in Dublin for a few years and attended a good lot of St Pats games as I lived nearby and I was at a few Boh's games as I worked with a Boh's fan, must say I quite enjoyed the experience and some of the atmospheres were brilliant, always enjoyed the games against Derry for some reason, thought their travelling support was great craic. Closest team now to me is Limerick but I have absolutely zero interest in supporting them tbh and as a GAA man I think that is a reasonable stance, county boundaries and all that!!

Ya see, I like this guy. He states he is a Celtic fan yet also states he has given LOI a chance before and shock horror has enjoyed it! Sounds to me like a decent skin. If you're ever up in Dublin again, Bohs will be happy to have you, no chip on our shoulder

Quixoticelixer

Main reason I don't go to many Limerick FC games (I take in 2 or 3 a year) is because I spend a fair bit of money on attending GAA games in the county. I think the ticket pricing is quite good, and I think it's unrealistic to consider dropping the ticket prices, would not be a good move.

Dropping ticket prices by just €5 means slashing 33-50% of the revenue which will only leave the club worse off financially unless it results in at least double the attendance, which it most definitely wouldn't.

One thing holding it back here is poor coverage, buy an Irish newspaper. The backpage will contain a GAA or an English premier league story, you turn the pages, rugby, GAA, International soccer, English soccer, a small but about Irish soccer, horse racing, golf, done.

It would be nice if our media prioritised the Irish league more, instead of treating it as an afterthought, quit giving it a token mention briefly on the RTE sports news, newspapers. It's crazy that the West Brom v Swansea or the Aston Villa v Hull game in England will be prioritised over here ahead of a Dublin derby or Sligo Rovers v Derry City or whatever.

I'm not sure who is responsible for promoting the league, I don't notice the FAI doing much to promote it, in fact I'm fierce anti-FAI ever since they blocked Limerick's proposed friendly with Barcelona, but it would be nice to see the league promoted, news bulletins prioritising it a bit higher, and newspapers willing to devote more coverage and analysis of games a bit closer to the back page.

gustavo

premierstone wrote: »

Nail on the head there mate, one thing that really pisses me off about the LOI is this holier than thou attitude of a vast majority of its followers towards supporters of other league and in particular Celtic fans.

I know what you mean . Only last weekend I was at the Rovers game and before hand no-one was talking about the game at all they were all keeping an eye out to see if anyone was wearing a foreign side's attire.

When any such person was found they were forcibly removed from the stadium and given a ritual flogging. I thought it only fair to let you know that will happen you should you ever go to to a LoI match.

premierstone

gustavo wrote: »

I know what you mean . Only last weekend I was at the Rovers game and before hand no-one was talking about the game at all they were all keeping an eye out to see if anyone was wearing a foreign side's attire.

When any such person was found they were forcibly removed from the stadium and given a ritual flogging. I thought it only fair to let you know that will happen you should you ever go to to a LoI match.

Been to plenty of them but thanks for the heads up :rolleyes:

Nothing as painful as an unfunny man attempting sarcasm or humour!

gustavo

premierstone wrote: »

Been to plenty of them but thanks for the heads up :rolleyes:

Nothing as painful as an unfunny man attempting sarcasm or humour!

Calm down dear no need to resort to insults it's only the internet.

I was just attempting to highlight the absurdity of your statement.

premierstone

gustavo wrote: »

Calm down dear no need to resort to insults it's only the internet.

I was just attempting to highlight the absurdity of your statement.

You failed miserably if its any consolation, oh and I'm perfectly calm

gustavo

Well it definitely is an absurd statement to suggest that the vast majority of supporters of a League of Ireland team have a chip on their shoulder about foreign teams. But I suspect you already know this. Anyway you can consider my last 3 posts a successful "bite" for you.

Alias G

premierstone wrote: »

Closest team now to me is Limerick but I have absolutely zero interest in supporting them tbh and as a GAA man I think that is a reasonable stance, county boundaries and all that!!

County boundaries me b0ll0x. If international boundaries don't prevent you from supporting Celtic, it makes no sense that county boundaries should get in the way of following an LOI club. I know there are Rovers fans that have no trouble travelling from Wexford, Carlow, Laois and Wicklow.

Captain Havoc

Alias G wrote: »

County boundaries me b0ll0x. If international boundaries don't prevent you from supporting Celtic, it makes no sense that county boundaries should get in the way of following an LOI club. I know there are Rovers fans that have no trouble travelling from Wexford, Carlow, Laois and Wicklow.

and Kilkenny.

premierstone

Alias G wrote: »

County boundaries me b0ll0x. If international boundaries don't prevent you from supporting Celtic, it makes no sense that county boundaries should get in the way of following an LOI club.

Thats your opinion and thats fine, but I am equally entitled to mine and I would never support Limerick FC for those reasons, and as I said before I don't feel I have to justify it to anyone.

premierstone

gustavo wrote: »

Well it definitely is an absurd statement to suggest that the vast majority of supporters of a League of Ireland team have a chip on their shoulder about foreign teams. But I suspect you already know this. Anyway you can consider my last 3 posts a successful "bite" for you.

I had already retracted that statement/turn of phrase but you choose to ignore that, perhaps it is not me that needs to calm down??

Alias G

premierstone wrote: »

Thats your opinion and thats fine, but I am equally entitled to mine and I would never support Limerick FC for those reasons, and as I said before I don't feel I have to justify it to anyone.

Fair enough, I presume you won't be supporting Ireland next time they play Scotland in the rugby, football or even shinty for that matter.

Henlars67

I think getting kids to games is the way to go. The benefits won't be seen for a few years but many of them will become lifelong fans.

I first went to the Showgrounds in 1988 when I was 5 and by the early-mid 90's I wouldn't want to miss a game.

In the early 2000's when we were playing dire stuff and finishing mid-table in the first Division I never once considered not going to a home game. It's as much a part of my week as going to work or getting the weekly shopping. It just becomes part of your life.

The quality of football is completely irrelevant when you are emotionally invested in a team and being emotionally invested in a team is what being a football fan is. If you think otherwise then you just don't get football.

LeoB

The cost is a bit much. Max admision should be €10

I would make one change and that is players should have to stay at clubs for a minimum of 2 seasons. The players move clubs too quickly. If they stayed it might encourage help build better relationships between, players supporters and clubs. I can never understand the amount of movement at end of season

Henlars67

LeoB wrote: »

The cost is a bit much. Max admision should be €10

I would make one change and that is players should have to stay at clubs for a minimum of 2 seasons. The players move clubs too quickly. If they stayed it might encourage help build better relationships between, players supporters and clubs. I can never understand the amount of movement at end of season

That would probably be illegal under EU employment laws

Pete_Cavan

I know this wont be popular but from my personal experience, some* LOI I have encountered certainly have a chip on their shoulder in relation to other sports. If someone prefers GAA or rugby it is because they jumped on the band wagon or something like that. The thought that GAA or rugby offer a more enjoyable product never enters their head, it must be a character flaw in this person that makes them support GAA or rugby more than soccer. From my experience there is a lot of cross over between GAA and rugby support while there is an "us against them" attitude in LOI which helps keep casual fans away.

* this actually happens to be quite a large percentage of LOI fans I have encountered but may be a tiny number of LOI fans overall

A Brad Maddox Guy

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

I know this wont be popular but from my personal experience, some* LOI I have encountered certainly have a chip on their shoulder in relation to other sports. If someone prefers GAA or rugby it is because they jumped on the band wagon or something like that. The thought that GAA or rugby offer a more enjoyable product never enters their head, it must be a character flaw in this person that makes them support GAA or rugby more than soccer. From my experience there is a lot of cross over between GAA and rugby support while there is an "us against them" attitude in LOI which helps keep casual fans away.

* this actually happens to be quite a large percentage of LOI fans I have encountered but may be a tiny number of LOI fans overall

That's football fans in general. If they're fans of LOI teams it'd be mostly coincidental. Of course a lot of Irish football fans also have keen interests in GAA, rugby, boxing etc

dan1895

LeoB wrote: »

The cost is a bit much. Max admision should be €10

I would make one change and that is players should have to stay at clubs for a minimum of 2 seasons. The players move clubs too quickly. If they stayed it might encourage help build better relationships between, players supporters and clubs. I can never understand the amount of movement at end of season

Clubs can't afford to be dishing out two year contracts. Maybe they could if more people where willing to attend games.
Once again its a vicious circle.

osarusan

premierstone wrote: »

I have family in Glasgow aswell, not that I need to justify myself to some internet bufoon.

So why have you spent numerous posts doing that?

And why do you ask which LOI team is it 'acceptable' for you to support when you've already decided you have no affinity with any, and won't support Limerick on 'county' reasons?

Why do you imply that it's the LOI's failure to attract you to games when you are the one who has decided you are not going to go?

Quixoticelixer

LeoB wrote: »

The cost is a bit much. Max admision should be €10

I would make one change and that is players should have to stay at clubs for a minimum of 2 seasons. The players move clubs too quickly. If they stayed it might encourage help build better relationships between, players supporters and clubs. I can never understand the amount of movement at end of season

Congratulations sir! You have successfully bankrupted every club in the land within three months.


As you may have guessed, I believe that slashing their revenue combined with your vastly more expensive contract idea would be an excellent way of sending clubs to the wall.


The standard pricing in the Premier League is €15 for an adult, €10 for a student or OAP, and between €5-7 for a child. That is good value, and it is as low as they can go.

And season tickets give a reduction of about 10-20% on those prices.

Richard Hillman

osarusan wrote: »

Why do you imply that it's the LOI's failure to attract you to games when you are the one who has decided you are not going to go?

THIS part of your post is major problem within LOI circles. It IS the LOI's failure for not attracting people to games. LOI clubs are a business, the people are the custom. The custom are not happy with the business, so they stay away. Just like the custom are staying away from pubs and video rental stores.

Do not for one second blame the people that stay away. The responsibility lays on the clubs.

Captain Havoc

If someone has border issues, what's wrong with going to games as a neutral?

Pete_Cavan

Richard Hillman wrote: »

THIS part of your post is major problem within LOI circles. It IS the LOI's failure for not attracting people to games. LOI clubs are a business, the people are the custom. The custom are not happy with the business, so they stay away. Just like the custom are staying away from pubs and video rental stores.

Exactly. The is an attitude that our product is fine, the problem is with the customer. They think Irish soccer doesnt need to change; we will stay the same and some day the general public will see the light and soccer will take its rightful place as the most supported domestic sport in the country. Sorry lads, you have to compete for the hearts and wallets of supporters and the reality is rugby and GAA offer more attractive products. The sooner this is realised the sooner the fortunes of domestic soccer will change.

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Do not for one second blame the people that stay away. The responsibility lays on the clubs.

I dont think the responsibility is entirely with the clubs, the League itself and the FAI are major shareholders and all should be working together to promote the LOI. This goes back to what I said in my first post here; GAA and rugby have strong links from grass roots to elite level in their sports, soccer clubs at all levels act independently.

I played gaelic football and rugby growing up with small local clubs and in both sports young players were taught to support the next level up in that sport (the county team in GAA, provincial team in rugby). Soccer doesnt seem to have the same links and so young soccer players end up supporting EPL teams. This weekend, after club rugby matches, amateur players attention turns to their province in the Heineken Cup, most amateur soccer players here will turn their attention to EPL not LOI. Strengthen the links between LOI clubs and local teams, give all under 10/12 players in certain clubs free into games and free membership of the supporters club in the hope that they start paying for these when they get older. The young lads would be going to the games with a group of friends meaning they are more likely to enjoy it regardless of the quality on show. This is the kind of thing I meant in my first post when I said LOI should adopt the IRFU rugby model instead of the EPL model which is based mostly on hype and glamour to attract fans.

dan1895

Richard Hillman wrote: »

THIS part of your post is major problem within LOI circles. It IS the LOI's failure for not attracting people to games. LOI clubs are a business, the people are the custom. The custom are not happy with the business, so they stay away. Just like the custom are staying away from pubs and video rental stores.

Do not for one second blame the people that stay away. The responsibility lays on the clubs.

It's never been easier or cheaper to advertise a game or event on social media yet LOI clubs are bad at it. (Shels' Facebook page was an absolute joke).

A lot has been said about the FAI but one thing I'll add is that in all my years going to games, I don't remember the league having a sponsor that promoted the game in this country. Neither Eircom or airtricity seem to mention the league in any of its advertising. Look at what Ulster Bank have done with GAA, Guinness with hurling and even Bus Eireann with the women's national league.
Newstalk sponsored the A championship but I don't think they ever gave results or fixtures in their bulletins. Surely part of the sponsorship package should be some sort of promotion rather than just attaching a company's name onto the title of the league.

Omackeral

To be fair, it's the league's job to advertise the sponsor is it not?! Thought that was the point?

osarusan

Richard Hillman wrote: »

THIS part of your post is major problem within LOI circles. It IS the LOI's failure for not attracting people to games. LOI clubs are a business, the people are the custom. The custom are not happy with the business, so they stay away. Just like the custom are staying away from pubs and video rental stores.

Do not for one second blame the people that stay away. The responsibility lays on the clubs.

I was speaking about him specifically. The poster has clearly said that he won't support Limerick because from he's from Tipp and therefore GAA country rivalry makes it impossible.

He's made that decision - he can't then turn around and start complaining the LOI hasn't done enough to attract him. His decision is based on criteria that no LOI club can control.

CSF

Richard Hillman wrote: »

THIS part of your post is major problem within LOI circles. It IS the LOI's failure for not attracting people to games. LOI clubs are a business, the people are the custom. The custom are not happy with the business, so they stay away. Just like the custom are staying away from pubs and video rental stores.

Do not for one second blame the people that stay away. The responsibility lays on the clubs.

League of Ireland clubs for the most part are not businesses. Businesses are designed to create profit for the shareholders. Any profit made by most League of Ireland clubs would be reinvested into the club, like clubs of any kind in their traditional form.

League of Ireland clubs exist to meet a sporting need for the locality, rather than to generate a profit for a particular individual or group of individuals. Of course they need to generate income to function, but so does your local after school activity club for kids, your local boxing club, whatever.

So I think from there the whole point you're trying to make falls apart a little bit. You can't compare Mervue with Man City, they exist for completely different reasons.

Pete_Cavan

dan1895 wrote: »

A lot has been said about the FAI but one thing I'll add is that in all my years going to games, I don't remember the league having a sponsor that promoted the game in this country. Neither Eircom or airtricity seem to mention the league in any of its advertising. Look at what Ulster Bank have done with GAA, Guinness with hurling and even Bus Eireann with the women's national league.
Newstalk sponsored the A championship but I don't think they ever gave results or fixtures in their bulletins. Surely part of the sponsorship package should be some sort of promotion rather than just attaching a company's name onto the title of the league.

Another area where LOI has totally failed. Expecting a sponsor to promote the league is ludicrous. The league needs its own identity, a branding which will always be recognised and built upon regardless of the title sponsor. Look at the Airtricity League website, it is purely an advertising tool for Airtricity and will change completely when the league gets a new title sponsor. This is no way to promote a sport.

The league needs a unique identity which will always be there and can be implanted in the consciousness of the public. Look at the Pro12, Rabos sponsorship ends next year but the Pro12 lives on with all its marketing and brand recognition. LOI needs a brand like this which they can grow, they just tag a different title sponsor name at the start when necessary. Changing the name of the league with every title sponsor does nothing to build awareness of the league. Most people in this country probably still think its called the Eircom league. Copying the English with Primier Division and First Division doesnt help with identity either.

The success of GAA isnt directly related to the sponsors (although the money it brings gives soccer fans a cop out excuse for their inferior product). The football and hurling championships have three title sponsors each, they can do this because they built products which sponsors want to be part of - The Championship. LOI needs to build a product sponsors are interested in, they will be waiting a long time if they want sponsors to build the product for them.

dan1895

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Another area where LOI has totally failed. Expecting a sponsor to promote the league is ludicrous. The league needs its own identity, a branding which will always be recognised and built upon regardless of the title sponsor. Look at the Airtricity League website, it is purely an advertising tool for Airtricity and will change completely when the league gets a new title sponsor. This is no way to promote a sport.

The league needs a unique identity which will always be there and can be implanted in the consciousness of the public. Look at the Pro12, Rabos sponsorship ends next year but the Pro12 lives on with all its marketing and brand recognition. LOI needs a brand like this which they can grow, they just tag a different title sponsor name at the start when necessary. Changing the name of the league with every title sponsor does nothing to build awareness of the league. Most people in this country probably still think its called the Eircom league. Copying the English with Primier Division and First Division doesnt help with identity either.

The success of GAA isnt directly related to the sponsors (although the money it brings gives soccer fans a cop out excuse for their inferior product). The football and hurling championships have three title sponsors each, they can do this because they built products which sponsors want to be part of - The Championship. LOI needs to build a product sponsors are interested in, they will be waiting a long time if they want sponsors to build the product for them.

It's just a part of the problem and not the problem itself. Cabs2000 promoted Shels when they were our sponsor and I've heard good things about Volkswagen with various clubs. Basically sponsorship should be beneficial to both parties whereas with the LOI it doesn't seem to benefit either.
However I agree that the clubs/league/FAI need to do more.

COYVB

Quixoticelixer wrote: »

The standard pricing in the Premier League is €15 for an adult, €10 for a student or OAP, and between €5-7 for a child. That is good value, and it is as low as they can go.

And season tickets give a reduction of about 10-20% on those prices.

15 an adult is too high though. id be interested in seeing what the effects of charging a fiver per adult and u12s in for free would be on attendance

CSF

COYVB wrote: »

15 an adult is too high though. id be interested in seeing what the effects of charging a fiver per adult and u12s in for free would be on attendance

Do you think it would treble? Because it would need to. There isn't disposable cash to cover the short-term loss in hope of long-term benefits

Quixoticelixer

COYVB wrote: »

15 an adult is too high though. id be interested in seeing what the effects of charging a fiver per adult and u12s in for free would be on attendance

€15 is absolutely not too high. It's fair. Current pricing is as low as they can go, it's not as if the clubs are rolling it in.

€5 per adult and nothing for children would be disastrous. That's slashing the revenue by about 75%.

You'd need to increase the number of paying customers by 400% just to keep in line with present gate income.

Your suggestion would kill the league stone dead within months.

Corholio

COYVB wrote: »

15 an adult is too high though. id be interested in seeing what the effects of charging a fiver per adult and u12s in for free would be on attendance

A fiver per adult is ludicrous. I think 15 is at the high end of the scale but relatively fair. Less than 12 euro would see the clubs struggle even more than a lot are. The price isnt near the top of the list at what keeps fans away IMO.

oldyouth

€15 in the 1st Division is too high. I think Shels were the only ones to go that high in recent years. Free (accompanied) children and family tickets is the way forward, as well as group tickets for local schoolboy clubs

Quixoticelixer

oldyouth wrote: »

€15 in the 1st Division is too high. I think Shels were the only ones to go that high in recent years. Free (accompanied) children and family tickets is the way forward, as well as group tickets for local schoolboy clubs

I'm fairly certain I never paid €15 into a Division 1 game, it was always €10.

born2bwild

Quixoticelixer wrote: »

I'm fairly certain I never paid €15 into a Division 1 game, it was always €10.

It was 15 for Tolka Park

10green bottles

Big,decent stadium,pints/soft drinks/hot food/drinks available before & also at H/T & at F/T.Possibile to up grade to excec. yet nobody go's to the matches(<1,000 att. average).They've been playing well lately too.Name that team?

Build it and they will come they say? Get decent facilities and the crowds will roll in we're told?

dfx-

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Do not for one second blame the people that stay away. The responsibility lays on the clubs.

You've completely missed what osarusan was saying and perhaps consciously misconstrued it.

gustavo

premierstone wrote: »

I had already retracted that statement/turn of phrase but you choose to ignore that, perhaps it is not me that needs to calm down??

I didn't see that - Apologies

gustavo

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Copying the English with Primier Division and First Division doesnt help with identity either.

.

I'm open to correction but I believe it was the Premier and First divisions in Ireland before England had its Premier League

dan1895

10green bottles wrote: »

Big,decent stadium,pints/soft drinks/hot food/drinks available before & also at H/T & at F/T.Possibile to up grade to excec. yet nobody go's to the matches(<1,000 att. average).They've been playing well lately too.Name that team?

Build it and they will come they say? Get decent facilities and the crowds will roll in we're told?

Limerick? And I believe its only €12 in. Limerick in Thomond this season has blown the "grounds are crap" argument out of the water.

Zebra3

dan1895 wrote: »

Limerick? And I believe its only €12 in. Limerick in Thomond this season has blown the "grounds are crap" argument out of the water.

As does the tenner in to Lansdowne for the cup final.

Pete_Cavan

gustavo wrote: »

I'm open to correction but I believe it was the Premier and First divisions in Ireland before England had its Premier League

You may well be correct but that is irrelevant and totally misses my point. 90% of people in this country wont know that and will see it as Irish soccer copying English soccer and trying to piggyback on their success - whether this is true or not doesnt matter. When most people hear Premier League/Premier Division/Premiership they think English soccer and this will always be the case. My point was that Irish soccer should create its own identity and build a brand that people will recognise and stop looking like the poor relation. An identity built upon transient sponsorship deals isnt much good either.

AgileMyth

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

You may well be correct but that is irrelevant and totally misses my point. 90% of people in this country wont know that and will see it as Irish soccer copying English soccer and trying to piggyback on their success - whether this is true or not doesnt matter. When most people hear Premier League/Premier Division/Premiership they think English soccer and this will always be the case. My point was that Irish soccer should create its own identity and build a brand that people will recognise and stop looking like the poor relation. An identity built upon transient sponsorship deals isnt much good either.

I'd say we'd look more like the 'poor relation' if we changed the structure of our leagues solely to be different to England.

We're not exactly in a position to say no to sponsorship deals.

Pete_Cavan

AgileMyth wrote: »

I'd say we'd look more like the 'poor relation' if we changed the structure of our leagues solely to be different to England.

We're not exactly in a position to say no to sponsorship deals.

I didnt say anything about change the branding. This doesnt mean saying no to sponsorship deals, just have an identity that remains even when the title sponsor changes. This would create brand awareness and over time LOI can build something sponsors are willing to pay more to be associated with. Its pretty basic marketing and is something that could help get bums on seats for not a huge cost.

cson

How many were at Richmond this evening? Looked pretty full on the TV. I'd have gone down myself but for a banging hangover.

leposean

Couple of things I'd just like to point out.

Irelands latest population is just over 4.5 million.
Our average LOI Attendance is (2012) 1683

Croatia latest population is just over 4.2 million.
Their average Premier Divison attendance is (2012) 1911

For a country who we would all agree are better than us at football the average attendance is not all too different.

Ask many a European have they heard of Hajduk Split or Dynamo Zagreb, the same most likely would not be said of Bohs or Shamrock Rovers. Shels or Pats.

Look at a smaller soccer nation even.

Moldova. Population of just over 3.5million.
Average Premier Division attendance is (2013) 1667

Literally barely less than LOI.

Why are we complaining about the lack of numbers, in comparrisson to many countries with larger populations and a better footballing history we are doing pretty ok.

A huge huge problem will always be the finances.

I went to AC Milan v Arsenal in I think the 1/4 final of the Champions League in 2012, could of been last 16 and went to the game v Spurs the previous year, both i Milan. Paid €16 for SPurs game, and €14 for Arsenal game. 3 days later was asked for €15 to see UCD play.

CSF

Is that Croatian figure definitely correct?