Why the anger against current government?

grainnewhale

Probably a mix of their arrogance, incompetence, stupidity, coupled with their lack of imagination. Not to mention their inability to keep any sort of grasp on reality, their constant need to pat each other on the back. Aswell as their constant need to tell us how bad things where before they took over and their complete lack of imagination and creativity. possbily also their lack of transparency and assumption that the eloctrate are all stupid

Cedrus

grainnewhale wrote: »

Probably a mix of their arrogance, incompetence, stupidity, coupled with their lack of imagination. Not to mention their inability to keep any sort of grasp on reality, their constant need to pat each other on the back. Aswell as their constant need to tell us how bad things where before they took over and their complete lack of imagination and creativity. possbily also their lack of transparency and assumption that the eloctrate are all stupid

Kind of like like yourself really.
Your two posts so far look like an articulate impressionable teenager who works in a pub full of rancorous old men who bitch about the life the universe and everything not FF/SF.

grainnewhale

Cedrus wrote: »

Kind of like like yourself really.
Your two posts so far look like an articulate impressionable teenager who works in a pub full of rancorous old men who bitch about the life the universe and everything not FF/SF.

Could not be further from the truth. The only difference in policy, between F.G and F.F was one pretended to give a **** about the Irish people north of the border, the other one admitted they didn't give a ****.

Zubeneschamali

grainnewhale wrote: »

The only difference in policy, between F.G and F.F was one pretended to give a **** about the Irish people north of the border, the other one admitted they didn't give a ****.

Go and read the 2002 FG election manifesto, and then tell us all what FG said FF's biggest mistake in government was.

Hint: it had nothing to do with the North.

grainnewhale

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Go and read the 2002 FG election manifesto, and then tell us all what FG said FF's biggest mistake in government was.

Hint: it had nothing to do with the North.

strange that when they are in opposition, there policies differ so greatly and yet when they are in power, they are hardly distinguishable.

Zubeneschamali

grainnewhale wrote: »

strange that when they are in opposition, there policies differ so greatly and yet when they are in power, they are hardly distinguishable.

Actually, FG got their worst beating in history for that 2002 manifesto, so they appointed the useless Enda leader and adopted FF's mad policies for 2007.

So you can quit blaming the politicians, and start blaming the dopey Irish electorate, including yourself, who didn't want FF's drunken bender to stop.

Merelyme

Shatter exposing Wallace being ticked off by the police for being on his mobile phone, and then trying to get us to believe that it was a fair point because some of the Independents were highlighting the police quashing actual charges turned me off Shatter forever. Thankfully, the spin didn't work.

micosoft

Merelyme wrote: »

Shatter exposing Wallace being ticked off by the police for being on his mobile phone, and then trying to get us to believe that it was a fair point because some of the Independents were highlighting the police quashing actual charges turned me off Shatter forever. Thankfully, the spin didn't work.

What spin?

- Wallace led a campaign against Garda discretion. This campaign implied massive corruption in the force over quashing of points/fines.
- It was pointed out that Wallace sought and got Garda discretion to avoid penalty points when he used a mobile phone while driving.
- His other colleagues in the campaign (Luke Ming Flanagan specifically) actually wrote in to request an exception on the dubious basis he may have been travelling to Dail Eireann.

While there are some justifiable concerns about how Shatter got the information, I think it was in the public interest when a group of people attempt to vilify the police and bring them into disrepute despite them using the very actions they were campaigning against. It showed a level of hypocrisy I've not seen in a long time in Irish Politics.

Do you think it's OK to campaign against a bad practice that you actively participate in? Is that "spin"?

Loafing Oaf

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Actually, FG got their worst beating in history for that 2002 manifesto, so they appointed the useless Enda leader and adopted FF's mad policies for 2007.

So you can quit blaming the politicians, and start blaming the dopey Irish electorate, including yourself, who didn't want FF's drunken bender to stop.

Indeed, you hear so many people slamming FF for 'destroying the country' these days but very few spelling out exactly what they did in government that was so wrong. Might this be because a lot of them were all for tax slashing combined with massive spending increases at the time, and were likely voting FF themselves...

spank_inferno

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Indeed, you hear so many people slamming FF for 'destroying the country' these days but very few spelling out exactly what they did in government that was so wrong. Might this be because a lot of them were all for tax slashing combined with massive spending increases at the time, and were likely voting FF themselves...

In truth the commentary on FFs errors has been vast.

Eventually it just becomes old news.

v638sg7k1a92bx

spank_inferno wrote: »

In truth the commentary on FFs errors has been vast.

Eventually it just becomes old news.

"Those who fail to remember he past are condemned to repeat it"

Only a few months ago, opinion polls were showing a rise in support for FF only two and a half years after they left government!

grainnewhale

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Actually, FG got their worst beating in history for that 2002 manifesto, so they appointed the useless Enda leader and adopted FF's mad policies for 2007.

So you can quit blaming the politicians, and start blaming the dopey Irish electorate, including yourself, who didn't want FF's drunken bender to stop.

Democracy is such a balls up, when people don't vote the way you want them to.

Idbatterim

Only a few months ago, opinion polls were showing a rise in support for FF only two and a half years after they left government!

FF are outrageous yes men, I'm assuming it the pensioners in the main, who are swinging back towards them, possibly some public servants too...

Scartbeg

Idbatterim wrote: »

FF are outrageous yes men, I'm assuming it the pensioners in the main, who are swinging back towards them, possibly some public servants too...

I mistakenly intruded on a FF convention in Tipp last week. I can safely say the average age of attendees was 60+

Craiggers

Stone Age politics it is time for change.... How we still have political parties is baffling how can you represent a constituency but agree with a party that goes against their needs on issues. To many politicians earn the right to a seat by promising the moon and stars election time but do not deliver it should be an honour to have the peoples faith and they should duly deliver. Ireland will always be reactive rather than proactive until there is reform this won't change. When are we going to see bankers put in prison for fraud crippling the country and the government allowing them to do so. Something like 45 odd million Irish passports in the world, we seem to thrive everywhere except our own country. So much diverse talent been trained lets put it to use rather then losing our brightest for other countries to prosper from it. Too many lobby groups like diageo and medical groups have to much say in the Dail writing speeches for ministers it's plain to see listening to them speak on issues they haven't the slightest clue about.... It time that the government is run by artists, engineers (sustainable, environmental civil etc) barristers/judges doctors gardai/military teachers etc people who know what they are talking about in their chosen fields. Government has always been too short sighted during boom times instead of controlling it at a sustainable level. Our judicial systems and prisons are a joke.... How murderers and paedophiles can walk after 6-7 years in some cases beggars belief they should never see the light a day people will think twice before committing these crimes. So many empty houses and unfinished housing in this country but yet homelessness is still an issue. The rich seem to just get richer while the rest keep on struggling by. HSE and other group chief executives getting bonuses and redicoulous wages is incomprehensible. Others holding down permanent jobs then getting paid another wage to sit on boards is foolishness. The structures of government bodies needs to be looked at too much money wasted.

v638sg7k1a92bx

Craiggers wrote: »

Stone Age politics it is time for change.... How we still have political parties is baffling how can you represent a constituency but agree with a party that goes against their needs on issues. To many politicians earn the right to a seat by promising the moon and stars election time but do not deliver it should be an honour to have the peoples faith and they should duly deliver. Ireland will always be reactive rather than proactive until there is reform this won't change. When are we going to see bankers put in prison for fraud crippling the country and the government allowing them to do so. Something like 45 odd million Irish passports in the world, we seem to thrive everywhere except our own country. So much diverse talent been trained lets put it to use rather then losing our brightest for other countries to prosper from it. Too many lobby groups like diageo and medical groups have to much say in the Dail writing speeches for ministers it's plain to see listening to them speak on issues they haven't the slightest clue about.... It time that the government is run by artists, engineers (sustainable, environmental civil etc) barristers/judges doctors gardai/military teachers etc people who know what they are talking about in their chosen fields. Government has always been too short sighted during boom times instead of controlling it at a sustainable level. Our judicial systems and prisons are a joke.... How murderers and paedophiles can walk after 6-7 years in some cases beggars belief they should never see the light a day people will think twice before committing these crimes. So many empty houses and unfinished housing in this country but yet homelessness is still an issue. The rich seem to just get richer while the rest keep on struggling by. HSE and other group chief executives getting bonuses and redicoulous wages is incomprehensible. Others holding down permanent jobs then getting paid another wage to sit on boards is foolishness. The structures of government bodies needs to be looked at too much money wasted.

After 80 years of consistent FF governments. We get the politicians we deserve.

Craiggers

It's the same thing they have just switched sides, selling off what little governments assets we have left for prices that didn't match the government valuation how is this getting the politicians we deserve. Setting up Irish water first class systems in billing but a water supply not even fit for the third world. 1 billion spent each year repairing the water system in Ireland why don't they spend 2 billion this year replacing instead of just repairing saving billions in the long run we always have to react to a problem rather than fixing it before it becomes a problem. Until qualified and competent people are put in place and who want to actually make a difference Ireland is not going to progress. Why is our minister for health overweight. They are supposed to try and gain the trust of the people of Ireland but how can we take him seriously.

111 votes to 8 the government voted against the cannabis bill yet opinion polls show 40% of the people of Ireland are in favour. They are on about creating jobs and yet they won't regulate cannabis. It's staring them in the face but yet instead of doing something about it they will wait until the rest of the world legalises it/decriminalises it when the opportunity to capitalise on a niche market has gone. It's going to happen it will be legalised/decriminalise whether we like it or not,why not take a gamble and do something proactive for once. The government is far too conservative and old school.
Condoms were banned until 1980 why because the church. Now look we advertise the usage of condoms "remember Johnny's got you covered". The Dail has set the standards for itself and replaced ex ff with an ex FG to regulate it tell me how that is progress? The cannabis situation will turn out similar.

We charge those who want to further educate themselves but give money to those who leave school and do nothing with themselves how is this been proactive on the governments behalf. Labour said they would abolish college fees but yet we are paying more and more each year.

There have been some improvements in the last 2 and a half years but that was inevitable things couldn't get any worse.

And this job bridge crack providing cheap labour is all it's doing companies not hiring people at the end and taking on a new candidate instead joke.

Someone please explain how political parties are allowed in government they represent themselves not the people of Ireland. There is no difference in the parties anymore like it or not.

Craiggers

View wrote: »

No, you clearly don't get it.

It is like this:
1) We are a democracy,
2) It is the responsibility US, the citizens of a democracy to make our democracy work for us - not "the politicians", "the Troika" or "someone somewhere"
3) To vote we must be adults and - a prerequisite - have grown up enough to take responbility for our own actions and inactions,
4) Any voter is free to set up a political party (subject to fairly minor conditions) and advocate for what they believe,
5) We, the voters, are free to elect whomever we want and whatever political party we choose, including any new ones,
6) We, the voters, are NOT obliged to vote for existing political parties OR politicians we feel have failed to deliver,
7) If we, the voters, give a single party an overall majority, it gets the opportunity to attempt to deliver on its manifesto,
8) If we, the voters, do not then the parties elected to represent the diverse views in our society have to reach a compromise on what they can deliver,
9) In both cases (7 & 8), such delivery is obviously subject to constraints, financial being the most obvious but others such as legal, politcal and - probably most important - time (as the legislative process is a slow one) being critcal factors.
10) Come the next election, we, the voters, get the opportunity to give those parties (or party) in power, the opportunity to continue their legislative efforts OR, if we so choose, to pass the opportunity to either opposition parties (or party) OR to new parties (that have not been represented in the Oireachtas before)
11) Obviously, if we, the voters, don't use our opportunities wisely, we get to live with the consequences of our poor choices. Equally, obviously, if we continuously make wise choices, we will transforrm our society - which will take time since change comes slowly.

Change is NOT going to come about if we throw our hands up in despair - no one (else) "owes" us a better form of society than the one we have. If we want one, it is up to us, the voters, to effect the change needed to change our society.

I have had a stroke of genius to solve this. What if everyone abstains from voting eh. See where I'm going with this. The whole country does not vote the so called politicians do not get elected therefore they cannot lie. Or instead get Dustin socky Bosco and zig n zag to run since the last government are just glorified puppet show that are not even entertaining.

micosoft

Craiggers wrote: »

I have had a stroke of genius to solve this. What if everyone abstains from voting eh. See where I'm going with this. The whole country does not vote the so called politicians do not get elected therefore they cannot lie. Or instead get Dustin socky Bosco and zig n zag to run since the last government are just glorified puppet show that are not even entertaining.

It is a stroke of genius - if all the people like yourself stop voting I suspect we will get a far better calibre of politician.

For Reals

hmmm wrote: »

A lot of Irish people wanted someone to wave a magic wand and rid us of our problems overnight, so we could get back to making ourselves rich buying property. Naturally they're disappointed.

I assume by 'a lot' you mean 'a minority' or do people now buy the FF mantra, 'we got greedy'?

micosoft

For Reals wrote: »

I assume by 'a lot' you mean 'a minority' or do people now buy the FF mantra, 'we got greedy'?

Exactly. It's as if the people voted in Fianna Fail three time in a row because FF promised a boomier boom! Oh wait......

v638sg7k1a92bx

micosoft wrote: »

Exactly. It's as if the people voted in Fianna Fail three time in a row because FF promised a boomier boom! Oh wait......

Three times in a row? And the rest!!!

Craiggers

At the time what was the alternative? In fairness Bertie and Charlie do talk a good game, cute old Bertie using Cowen as a guinea pig bet he is sorry now he took leadership of the sinking ship

Zubeneschamali

Craiggers wrote: »

At the time what was the alternative?

Baldy Noonan giving out to us to turn the music down and count our drinks.

Boooring!

Craiggers

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Baldy Noonan giving out to us to turn the music down and count our drinks.

Boooring!

Just give Luke Flanagan full power of the government country will be a much better place.

I'm all for communism when done properly.

v638sg7k1a92bx

Craiggers wrote: »

I'm all for communism when done properly.

I'm all for capitalism when done properly.

creedp

Talia Modern Football wrote: »

I'm all for capitalism when done properly.

What's your benchmark?

Craiggers

Talia Modern Football wrote: »

I'm all for capitalism when done properly.

It's such a shame people are greedy isn't it.

We live in a country governed by media telling us that justin bieber is cool and that it's better to be anorexic then fat.When media start reporting on things that actually make a difference in our lives and the world people may not be so naive and blind to the problems the government corruption is causing.

It's bad when we know more Bout celebrities that we do our own neighbours sad sad reality. Einstein predicted this, it has now happened http://www.fascinatingpics.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/552.jpg

The government needs serious reform today a 79 year old woman was jailed for protesting about war planes refueling in Shannon with is 100% right we are a neutral country, by allowing this we accomplishes to murder of thousands upon thousands

But yet we still have not jailed the bankers anyone explain the justice here?

v638sg7k1a92bx

creedp wrote: »

What's your benchmark?

Leaps and bounds in medical science, clean drinking water and improved standards of living in western countries as a direct result of capitalism.
To keep the argument balanced, maybe you could direct the exact same question to this poster:

Craiggers wrote: »

I'm all for communism when done properly.

v638sg7k1a92bx

Craiggers wrote: »

It's such a shame people are greedy isn't it.

We live in a country governed by media telling us that justin bieber is cool and that it's better to be anorexic then fat.When media start reporting on things that actually make a difference in our lives and the world people may not be so naive and blind to the problems the government corruption is causing.

It's bad when we know more Bout celebrities that we do our own neighbours sad sad reality. Einstein predicted this, it has now happened http://www.fascinatingpics.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/552.jpg

The government needs serious reform today a 79 year old woman was jailed for protesting about war planes refueling in Shannon with is 100% right we are a neutral country, by allowing this we accomplishes to murder of thousands upon thousands

But yet we still have not jailed the bankers anyone explain the justice here?

Watching many Russell Brand You Tube videos lately?

Craiggers

A bit too eccentric for my liking although has some valid points a

For Reals

micosoft wrote: »

Exactly. It's as if the people voted in Fianna Fail three time in a row because FF promised a boomier boom! Oh wait......

Apologies in advance if I'm misinterpreting, but are we saying the electorate are responsible for Fianna Fails mismanagement?
If the economy is doing great and Europe is patting us on the back and our illustrious leader is telling us things are just going to keep getting better, it's the fault of anyone who buys it rather than those spinning the yarns?
Of course people are going to vote for Fianna Fail under such circumstances. How does this equate to greed?
I know some people with crippling mortgages as loans came fast and loose, but these are a pimple on a Gnat's ass compared to the damage to the economy caused by Fianna Fail/The Bailouts/Bankers writing their own loans etc. and would not constitute my idea of being greedy, rather buying into the idea that if, as promised, the economy continued to grow they'd be able to manage such mortgages.
We are responsible for our choices, but can we, (the royal 'we') carry the blame for all the behind the scenes, at best, ineptitude?
If I'd have fallen from Space, (having never previously heard of Fianna Fail) I probably would have voted for them in those times. So someone who views all parties as the same will look at their personal situation in regards to votes and many bought into a lie.
Which, brings me back on topic. We were promised all kinds of accountability and changes. I expected the political map to be re-written with respect to transparency and so on. What we got....what we always get when Fine Gael get in, austerity and a 'Go **** yourselves' attitude.

Craiggers

Why are state bodies given employees bonuses for doing their job is that not they are employed to do? The scandal of the ex crc chief getting 473,000 pay of is down right ridiculous 200,000 euros of which lump sum untaxed that would pay a couple of nurses wages for the year would the money be better spent employing them?

The most sickening part is was charitable funds how sickening is that absolute frauds and he won't even get a slap on the wrist

v638sg7k1a92bx

For Reals wrote: »

Apologies in advance if I'm misinterpreting, but are we saying the electorate are responsible for Fianna Fails mismanagement?
If the economy is doing great and Europe is patting us on the back and our illustrious leader is telling us things are just going to keep getting better, it's the fault of anyone who buys it rather than those spinning the yarns?
Of course people are going to vote for Fianna Fail under such circumstances. How does this equate to greed?
I know some people with crippling mortgages as loans came fast and loose, but these are a pimple on a Gnat's ass compared to the damage to the economy caused by Fianna Fail/The Bailouts/Bankers writing their own loans etc. and would not constitute my idea of being greedy, rather buying into the idea that if, as promised, the economy continued to grow they'd be able to manage such mortgages.
We are responsible for our choices, but can we, (the royal 'we') carry the blame for all the behind the scenes, at best, ineptitude?
If I'd have fallen from Space, (having never previously heard of Fianna Fail) I probably would have voted for them in those times. So someone who views all parties as the same will look at their personal situation in regards to votes and many bought into a lie.
Which, brings me back on topic. We were promised all kinds of accountability and changes. I expected the political map to be re-written with respect to transparency and so on. What we got....what we always get when Fine Gael get in, austerity and a 'Go **** yourselves' attitude.

Give me a break. Irish people cannot claim ignorance in relation to FF during the boom times. Did you honestly believe Bertien Ahern when he said that as Minister for Finance he had no bank account and cashed his ministerial cheque in Fagan's pub. Not to mention Charles Haughey, Ray Burke, Liam Lawlor, P Flynn, Beverly Cooper Flynn to name just a few. If your parents told you that Santa Claus really does exist would you still believe them?

Even on this very day we are seeing the legacy of FF and Bertie Ahern's mate on the CRC board receiving a €750,000 pension.

BTW, The last time FG were re-elected Ireland experienced it's first budget surplus in over 25 years and again after total FF mismanagement buying their way through elections.

v638sg7k1a92bx

Craiggers wrote: »

Why are state bodies given employees bonuses for doing their job is that not they are employed to do? The scandal of the ex crc chief getting 473,000 pay of is down right ridiculous 200,000 euros of which lump sum untaxed that would pay a couple of nurses wages for the year would the money be better spent employing them?

The most sickening part is was charitable funds how sickening is that absolute frauds and he won't even get a slap on the wrist

Again, that's all part of the FF legacy.

For Reals

Talia Modern Football wrote: »

Give me a break. Irish people cannot claim ignorance in relation to FF during the boom times. Did you honestly believe Bertien Ahern when he said that as Minister for Finance he had no bank account and cashed his ministerial cheque in Fagan's pub. Not to mention Charles Haughey, Ray Burke, Liam Lawlor, P Flynn, Beverly Cooper Flynn to name just a few. If your parents told you that Santa Claus really does exist would you still believe them?

Even on this very day we are seeing the legacy of FF and Bertie Ahern's mate on the CRC board receiving a €750,000 pension.

BTW, The last time FG were re-elected Ireland experienced it's first budget surplus in over 25 years and again after total FF mismanagement buying their way through elections.

I'm speaking generally, personally I didn't vote Fianna Fail. I'm trying to point out that somebody who has less than a passing interest in such things would vote based solely on personal circumstance and on the surface things seemed to be going great. That is not greed and not in my view ignorance either as everybody in government and even the media were talking up how great things were.
The rogues gallery listed above have no bearing on the state of the economy during that period, only in regard to the quality of person that party attracts. In my opinion blaming the kept in the dark public on mass for much of the financial wreckage laid on Ireland takes responsibility from those in power, trusted to look after such things.

Also as regards FG generating a budget surplus, nice and all but doesn't change their love of austerity and 'go **** yourself' attitude. I guess anyone who voted in FG have only themselves to blame for the likes of (should have been fired) Reilly and his medical center allocations.

bmaxi

It's time FF had a purge of former government ministers like Martin and O'Dea, there is no way they can be viewed as a viable opposition while they are there.
I'm sick to death of current Government Ministers, some of whom are guilty of the same underhand carrying on, giving the stock reply of " Deputy Martin, or whoever, is in no position to come into this house and complain about blah, blah".
It makes it too easy for the current crowd of gangsters, who are intent on driving the ordinary people of this country into penury, to hide from exposure.

v638sg7k1a92bx

For Reals wrote: »

I'm speaking generally, personally I didn't vote Fianna Fail. I'm trying to point out that somebody who has less than a passing interest in such things would vote based solely on personal circumstance and on the surface things seemed to be going great. That is not greed and not in my view ignorance either as everybody in government and even the media were talking up how great things were.
The rogues gallery listed above have no bearing on the state of the economy during that period, only in regard to the quality of person that party attracts. In my opinion blaming the kept in the dark public on mass for much of the financial wreckage laid on Ireland takes responsibility from those in power, trusted to look after such things.

Also as regards FG generating a budget surplus, nice and all but doesn't change their love of austerity and 'go **** yourself' attitude. I guess anyone who voted in FG have only themselves to blame for the likes of (should have been fired) Reilly and his medical center allocations.

Where do I even start on this, is today the first day of politics 101 and every first year student sat around pontificating in Starbucks for the day.

How can you say that people cannot be labelled as ignorant for not having more than a passing interest? It's everyone's responsibility to understand the issues and just because the media hypes something up, doesn't means it true. If you read in the newspaper that there was an alien invasion in Ireland would you not be considered ignorant for believing it to be true?
You keep referring to the economy as if it was the be all and end all, can you give me a list of the social problems that this country has that didn't exist during the boom? People were still left waiting on trolleys in A&E as they are today.
BTW, there is no comparison between James Reilly medical centre allocations and list of FF cronies. At the very least, Reilly was actually providing a public amenity albeit it showed favouritism by having it in his own constituency, the other guys were actually crooks only interested in filling their own pockets, some of them even served prison time.

You also seem to write off FG economic achievements during their last term but then go on to say that the alleged economic success of FF as being the main selling point so your being selective in your indignations.

Also, for the record, please tell us what exactly the FG 'go **** yourself' attitude is?

v638sg7k1a92bx

bmaxi wrote: »

It makes it too easy for the current crowd of gangsters, who are intent on driving the ordinary people of this country into penury, to hide from exposure.

That's the thing, it's the previous FF government that are the cause of "driving the ordinary people of this country into penury"

tayto lover

There's very little difference in the last shower and this one.

Sand

For Reals wrote: »

Apologies in advance if I'm misinterpreting, but are we saying the electorate are responsible for Fianna Fails mismanagement?
If the economy is doing great and Europe is patting us on the back and our illustrious leader is telling us things are just going to keep getting better, it's the fault of anyone who buys it rather than those spinning the yarns?

That is essentially what we are saying. Essentially if everyone from the government, to the civil service, to the central banks to the economists on TV say everything is great the economy is rosy it is incumbent on the voter to actually set-up their own research unit, somehow break into the Central Bank and DoF to steal the budget figures and banking regulatory reports, crunch the numbers and reach a view that contradicts the people they pay tax money to regulate and govern the country.

If the voter fails to do this, well they have only themselves to blame. Of course, the voter must find time to do this in between doing their own job, taking care of their kids, sleeping, and who knows having a social life of some description. I'm not exaggerating - that is the view of many contributors to the thread. My personal view is they took a generally reasonable truism about getting the government we deserve and have extended it to an absurd degree.

As for Tickers - to save yourself a lot of time Tickers very clearly does not believe anyone can have a valid reason to be annoyed with the current govt. Nobody. Anyone who claims to have reason to be annoyed with the government is either a liar, an idiot or morally inferior in some way. Many people have tried to explain their reasons - Tickers has entertained none of them.

rodento

Sand wrote: »

As for Tickers - to save yourself a lot of time Tickers very clearly does not believe anyone can have a valid reason to be annoyed with the current govt. Nobody. Anyone who claims to have reason to be annoyed with the government is either a liar, an idiot or morally inferior in some way. Many people have tried to explain their reasons - Tickers has entertained none of them.

Not even when the government promises greater transparency in Irish Water, than votes agains't it in the dail

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/gilmore-silent-on-bonuses-for-irish-water-staff-1.1657702

hatrickpatrick

Talia Modern Football wrote: »

Give me a break. Irish people cannot claim ignorance in relation to FF during the boom times. Did you honestly believe Bertien Ahern when he said that as Minister for Finance he had no bank account and cashed his ministerial cheque in Fagan's pub. Not to mention Charles Haughey, Ray Burke, Liam Lawlor, P Flynn, Beverly Cooper Flynn to name just a few. If your parents told you that Santa Claus really does exist would you still believe them?

Even on this very day we are seeing the legacy of FF and Bertie Ahern's mate on the CRC board receiving a €750,000 pension.

BTW, The last time FG were re-elected Ireland experienced it's first budget surplus in over 25 years and again after total FF mismanagement buying their way through elections.

Blaming the voters is a cop out designed to avoid the establishment facing justice for what it has done. The electorate cannot be blamed for a pre-dawn raid on the exchequer to pay for Anglo's cock ups, that responsibility lies with the cabinet and with the cabinet alone. The electorate cannot be blamed for the continuation of corrupt policies after voting in a new government which alleged that it would end such corruption, that responsibility lies in the Dail and in the Dail alone.

No one is going to deny that some of the voters made mistakes over the years, but if the shareholders of a company elect a board of directors who then proceed to commit fraud and embezzlement, should the board be immune to going to prison because they were voted in?

For Reals

Talia Modern Football wrote: »

Where do I even start on this, is today the first day of politics 101 and every first year student sat around pontificating in Starbucks for the day.

Starbucks Coffee gives me the ****s.

Talia Modern Football wrote: »

How can you say that people cannot be labelled as ignorant for not having more than a passing interest?

People generally inquire about aspects of the political and financial worlds that immediately effect them. Some more so than others. If my only concerns are my current financial position and that of the near future, (based on government turn-around), I would consider that reasonable grounds for many to vote for whomever. With all the revelations and accusations surrounding Fianna Fail at the time being out weighed by the money in my pocket and promises the future is secure.

Talia Modern Football wrote: »

It's everyone's responsibility to understand the issues and just because the media hypes something up, doesn't means it true. If you read in the newspaper that there was an alien invasion in Ireland would you not be considered ignorant for believing it to be true?

Not everybody studied Chomsky. Most people do actually believe everything they read in the media. This is news to you?

Talia Modern Football wrote: »

You keep referring to the economy as if it was the be all and end all, can you give me a list of the social problems that this country has that didn't exist during the boom? People were still left waiting on trolleys in A&E as they are today.

Well this line began with reference to the financial crisis, so I have been referring to it. Also I am aware and was aware of those issues, but the point was regarding the Public believing the economy was doing well.

Talia Modern Football wrote: »

BTW, there is no comparison between James Reilly medical centre allocations and list of FF cronies. At the very least, Reilly was actually providing a public amenity albeit it showed favouritism by having it in his own constituency, the other guys were actually crooks only interested in filling their own pockets, some of them even served prison time.

I would say there is no difference. Reilly should be investigated. Will we hear of backhanders down the road or as we all know he was buying votes. You'd have to be ignorant not to see that

Talia Modern Football wrote: »

You also seem to write off FG economic achievements during their last term but then go on to say that the alleged economic success of FF as being the main selling point so your being selective in your indignations.

Again, because I was responding to a Fianna Fail specific premise that the public had caused much of the financial crisis. You just keep trying to derail my posts into some bizarre FG party political broadcast. I am saying the belief the economy was doing great was why people voted for Fianna Fail, but that doesn't shift blame from Fianna Fail. You keep bringing up FG's record in that regard. FG were not in power during the period I am talking about, so why would I be harping on about FG?

Talia Modern Football wrote: »

Also, for the record, please tell us what exactly the FG 'go **** yourself' attitude is?

After promises of sweeping change;
Reilly and the medical center allocations,
Housing Tax brought in by Enda'It is morally unjust and unfair to tax a person's home' Kenny.
The as of yet unjustified spending on consultants of Irish Water and a defence based on an unwillingness to micromanage his own department by Phil ''You can't make an omelette without breaking eggs' Hogan.
Chuck in some broken or unfulfilled election promises and for me, it smacks of a disregard, or 'go **** yourself' attitude towards the Irish public.

By the way, disenchantment with the current government, which includes Labour, (but you seem to have sidelined them) in no way equates to a love or pardon for the Fianna Fail crew. That should be obvious but I feel you need it spelled out.

bmaxi

Talia Modern Football wrote: »

That's the thing, it's the previous FF government that are the cause of "driving the ordinary people of this country into penury"

I'm not disputing that but this government have done absolutely nothing to ease the burden while turning the same blind eye to corruption and excess
We need an opposition that is credible. For instance, I have been impressed with the performance of two FF TDs in particular, John Mc Guinness and Michael Mc Grath. They both come across as being extremely capable but their performance is tainted by their association with the FF leadership and I can never accept that they are genuine or that they won't turn their talents to the dark side in the event that FF form part of the next government.

Moe Gilmore

This government and the last few governments are just actors for gods sake. None of these "ministers" have any say in the brief, The civil service has total control of this country, all policies you hear this government announce as their own were decided before the 2011 election by the civil service.

_Kaiser_

tayto lover wrote: »

There's very little difference in the last shower and this one.

I'd actually class them as worse and more blatant about it too. And that's saying something after the mess FF made of it.

tayto lover

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

I'd actually class them as worse and more blatant about it too. And that's saying something after the mess FF made of it.

Well they're more arrogant anyway.
Love the way they pretend not to know things too when it suits.

Shady Tady

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

I'd actually class them as worse and more blatant about it too. And that's saying something after the mess FF made of it.

Give them the same length of time in government and they will be twice as rotten, Phil Hogan is arrogance personified!

jackboy

Does Kenny remind anybody else of one of those crap Japanese robots. A few slow basic moves and a few sentences repeated over and over.