Why the anger against current government?

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LordSutch wrote: »

You got 66 thanks for that, which begs the question who should be in power?

Presumably other lying hypocritical b&!tards. :-)

the_syco

People thought that having two parties that opposed each other in the same government that they'd get a balanced government.

As opposed to a government that opposed anything the other side said to score points for the next election..

hatrickpatrick

Based on all the comments here is it not becoming obvious that the only way we'll ever see real reform is by changing the Dail voting system to stop penalising independents and basing the entire system around party affiliation?
We need to force politicians to remain loyal to the public first and their party second, as opposed to the current situation in which their only loyalty can be to the latter or they lose all political relevance.

In our current system the cabinet make all the decisions and the TDs are a mere rubber stamp for this - isn't the parliament supposed to be a *check* on the power of the cabinet, by definition?

SpaceTime

Whatever about the current government, I sincerely hope the electorate isn't so shortsighted that it puts FF back into office.

They need at least two or three terms to think about what they did ....

raymon

SpaceTime wrote: »

Whatever about the current government, I sincerely hope the electorate isn't so shortsighted that it puts FF back into office.

They need at least two or three terms to think about what they did ....

But even if they are not in power they are still lining the boards of charities up and down the country.

SpaceTime

Still doesn't mean you should vote for them!

_Kaiser_

SpaceTime wrote: »

Still doesn't mean you should vote for them!

True, but what's the alternative? Allow Kenny's lot to wreck the place themselves a bit longer?

Of course given the fact that the Irish electorate fears/hates anything different, FF or FG are always guaranteed to be voted in each time. Look at the reaction any pro-SF thread gets here for example - instant references to the IRA, bank jobs etc (but conveniently ignoring the shady pasts of the existing mainstream parties)

I know I've said this lots of times on this site at this stage, but I really think this country is beyond saving - mainly because those who have the power to bring reform are themselves the main beneficiaries of the current system and we have an electorate too concerned with what their neighbour might be getting that they aren't or what supposedly national politicians can do for them personally.

Before we can have political change we need social change and frankly to grow the hell up as a country! Unfortunately, given that many of our best and brightest younger generation have been forced abroad by the policies of successive Irish governments, what's left are those who benefit from things as they are or too oppressed by the reality of the current two-tier system to focus on anything beyond trying to do enough to provide and care for their families.

We really should just hand the keys back (whatever of the set we haven't already given to our "friends" in Europe that is) and admit that the experiment of "Irish independence" has been a complete and total failure.

Think I'm wrong? Watch as FF are re-elected, or FG pull some token concession out of Europe late next year and time the election for just after the 1916 celebrations to capitalise on the "good mood" of the country to scrape another win. Either way nothing will actually change, more scandals and examples of incompetence will emerge, and everyone else will shake their heads, mutter how terrible it is, but DO nothing about it!

marienbad

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

True, but what's the alternative? Allow Kenny's lot to wreck the place themselves a bit longer?

Of course given the fact that the Irish electorate fears/hates anything different, FF or FG are always guaranteed to be voted in each time. Look at the reaction any pro-SF thread gets here for example - instant references to the IRA, bank jobs etc (but conveniently ignoring the shady pasts of the existing mainstream parties)

I know I've said this lots of times on this site at this stage, but I really think this country is beyond saving - mainly because those who have the power to bring reform are themselves the main beneficiaries of the current system and we have an electorate too concerned with what their neighbour might be getting that they aren't or what supposedly national politicians can do for them personally.

Before we can have political change we need social change and frankly to grow the hell up as a country! Unfortunately, given that many of our best and brightest younger generation have been forced abroad by the policies of successive Irish governments, what's left are those who benefit from things as they are or too oppressed by the reality of the current two-tier system to focus on anything beyond trying to do enough to provide and care for their families.

We really should just hand the keys back (whatever of the set we haven't already given to our "friends" in Europe that is) and admit that the experiment of "Irish independence" has been a complete and total failure.

Think I'm wrong? Watch as FF are re-elected, or FG pull some token concession out of Europe late next year and time the election for just after the 1916 celebrations to capitalise on the "good mood" of the country to scrape another win. Either way nothing will actually change, more scandals and examples of incompetence will emerge, and everyone else will shake their heads, mutter how terrible it is, but DO nothing about it!

So have you an alternative or do you just moan all the time ?

_Kaiser_

marienbad wrote: »

So have you an alternative or do you just moan all the time ?

Very mature counterargument I must say :rolleyes:

Start by reading the post again - there's several suggestions in there:

- Stop voting in FF/FG and expecting change when both sides have proven they're as bad as each other

- Stop focusing on "what can this TD do for ME" and vote based on what they are advocating for the country. After all we have lots of local-level politicians for the doorstep stuff. Make your feelings on their performance known by contacting them directly or protesting when necessary

- Accept that you the voter have a part to play in governance rather than taking the easy/lazy "can't someone else do it" attitude or just voting for a candidate because it's who mammy and daddy always voted for

OR

- admit we've failed as a democratic free state and complete the handover of all power to Europe, or beg the English/US to take us

- Emigrate if it's an option (which it isn't for many) and never look back

Take your pick

The Muppet

Shatter, Hogan and O Reilly must be some of the most condescending people to have ever held office, I find the three of them really particulally irritating, cant wait to see the back of them.

Disappointed with labour too, Hard decision had to be made but I do think they should have done more to protect the average worker in this country.

marienbad

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

Very mature counterargument I must say :rolleyes:

Start by reading the post again - there's several suggestions in there:

- Stop voting in FF/FG and expecting change when both sides have proven they're as bad as each other

- Stop focusing on "what can this TD do for ME" and vote based on what they are advocating for the country. After all we have lots of local-level politicians for the doorstep stuff. Make your feelings on their performance known by contacting them directly or protesting when necessary

- Accept that you the voter have a part to play in governance rather than taking the easy/lazy "can't someone else do it" attitude or just voting for a candidate because it's who mammy and daddy always voted for

OR

- admit we've failed as a democratic free state and complete the handover of all power to Europe, or beg the English/US to take us

- Emigrate if it's an option (which it isn't for many) and never look back

Take your pick

This is just more of the same - stop this stop that . Inaction is not an alternative. What positive's have you to propose ?

_Kaiser_

marienbad wrote: »

This is just more of the same - stop this stop that . Inaction is not an alternative. What positive's have you to propose ?

I've already made several suggestions but here's a thought - if you're not satisfied with my answers then why don't you propose some positive suggestions of your own rather than waiting for me to do it for you?

This attitude is precisely part of the problem we have: "I want change but I want someone else to do it for me"

(Incidentally, "inaction" in the context you've used it would be to continue as is - not by considering alternatives as I've suggested)

marienbad

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

I've already made several suggestions but here's a thought - if you're not satisfied with my answers then why don't you propose some positive suggestions of your own rather than waiting for me to do it for you?

This attitude is precisely part of the problem we have: "I want change but I want someone else to do it for me"

(Incidentally, "inaction" in the context you've used it would be to continue as is - not by considering alternatives as I've suggested)

Your suggestions are just the usual wooly don't vote this that or the other.

Here is a tip for you - stop blaming the electorate ! What would you do differently than the current lot ?

As things stand the FG/Labour coalition are going to be re-elected fairly easily imho.

Dave!

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

Very mature counterargument I must say :rolleyes:


OR

- admit we've failed as a democratic free state and complete the handover of all power to Europe, or beg the English/US to take us

- Emigrate if it's an option (which it isn't for many) and never look back

Take your pick

Are we to infer from this that the US is your idea of a country/society/government/political system which we should aspire to be more like...?

No thanks—hysterical hyperbole aside, I think most Irish people would have no interest in that.